What happens to a Muslim who does not pray?
-
I know what you are saying. I am a biology major and if I was even the smallest bit in doubt about a God before, I definitely wasn't after studying botany, human physio, genetics...all of that. how does a seed know HOW to grow into a tree? it has to be intelligent design...not just random design or evolutionary design...even the inner workings of our bodies...how does homeostasis maintain itself? if our body temp is too hot, we die, if it is too cold, we die, if our pH is too high or low, we die---there are millions of synapses and connnections in our brain..and surely if one connection didn't fire off a neural impulse to tell us to breathe or do this or do that, we would die...everything is too perfectly balanced to be a mere mishap, or process of evolutionary elimination. especially when you look at the universe as you said ...too far from the sun we are a ball of ice...too close to the sun we are a ball of smoke lol, I mean its crazy. I love astronomy so much I wish I would've majored in it...I need to get a high powered telescope one of these days.
Are you falling for the false probability arguments some apologists throw out to impress people, simply using large and fabricated numbers?
You are presenting 2 typical cases
- the pavement is fine-tuned for life. Because a plant manages to grow out of a crack.
- I don't understand it, therefore god.
Every time my artificial hip joint aches, I adjust my hearing and the pacemaker, I have a hole in my tooth, a muscle twitches uncontrollably, I have a headache and I bite my tongue or cheek by mistake I have to smile and think of the "Intelligent Design" nonsense.
-
You're bringing up the typical "God of the Gaps" argument. You can't handle the "I don't know" and quickly plug this with your god. As do other people with their belief in their particular god. But it is not real and not realistic.
So then why would a being create a galaxy and another and another and millions and millions more - then wait 10 billion years and then do what was the plan and create some tiny planet in a remote galaxy which will collide with another galaxy?
The only possible answer is I don't know.
I would have thought you know my idea of god by now. What exactly isn't real or realistic to you? The fact that some 'thing' or whatever you wish to call it created the universe. So do you not agree that something created the universe? If not, there's no point continuing on the conversation as you obviously don't agree that a creation has a creator. If you do, but you believe that there was nothing that initiated the creation, then that doesn't make sense, but i doubt you think like that. What makes you think that there are not other different beings in other planets or galaxies that the creator has decreed a law for them. Are we that selfish? Open your horizon . Elaborate on the "colliding with another galaxy". Where did you get that from out of curiosity.
-
I would have thought you know my idea of god by now. What exactly isn't real or realistic to you?
Something wanted this whole universe to be
Something thought to create all of this
It is independent of time and space
not effected by the laws that it created itself
Something was independent of time and space
It's too much of a coincidence
It's too much of a coincidence to say that some randomness made this all happen in perfect measurements
how the moon came about
A few cms out of sync
I just think it's too much of a coincidenceThe fact that some 'thing' or whatever you wish to call it created the universe. So do you not agree that something created the universe? If not, there's no point continuing on the conversation as you obviously don't agree that a creation has a creator. If you do, but you believe that there was nothing that initiated the creation, then that doesn't make sense, but i doubt you think like that. What makes you think that there are not other different beings in other planets or galaxies that the creator has decreed a law for them. Are we that selfish? Open your horizon . Elaborate on the "colliding with another galaxy". Where did you get that from out of curiosity.
The "fact"?? What fact?? Why do you call it a fact?? It is a fact that Andromeda will collide with the Milky Way. We can calculate the angle and speed of our neighbouring galaxy and deduce what will happen.
No, I do NOT agree "something" "created" the Universe. Why? How? Using what material? Using what process? I don't believe anything.
"Open your horizon"?? I am willing and able to say I don't know whether or not there is a creator/god. Are you? And you tell ME to open my horizon
-
Something wanted this whole universe to be
Something thought to create all of this
It is independent of time and space
not effected by the laws that it created itself
Something was independent of time and space
It's too much of a coincidence
It's too much of a coincidence to say that some randomness made this all happen in perfect measurements
how the moon came about
A few cms out of sync
I just think it's too much of a coincidenceThe "fact"?? What fact?? Why do you call it a fact?? It is a fact that Andromeda will collide with the Milky Way. We can calculate the angle and speed of our neighbouring galaxy and deduce what will happen.
No, I do NOT agree "something" "created" the Universe. Why? How? Using what material? Using what process? I don't believe anything.
"Open your horizon"?? I am willing and able to say I don't know whether or not there is a creator/god. Are you? And you tell ME to open my horizon )
I must have missed the part where you explained what your views are. I asked you before but you keep questioning my beliefs and i haven't really seen what you actually believe. I am curious. By the way, the sentence that started with "the fact that" is meant to end with a question mark, my bad .
Also, how can you be so sure that this neighbouring galaxy is going to be the end of us? Do you not read science news recently? How about where NASA were talking about an asteroid (nicknamed the "doomsday asteroid" has a 2.7% chance of hitting the Earth? An asteroid is going to pass by the Earth the closest for the first time around 15th of February this year. The tragectory and speed of asteroids is ever changing and "CAN" direct itself towards us. What then? Do you reckon people will care about your "Andromeda will hit the Milky Way" view then? I don't think so. Don't make it sound like you know when the world will end. You can estimate all you want. Of course I am willing to accept that there is a creator or not however my CURRENT logic works like this. A creation needs a creator. The ultimate creator is independent of time or space. There was a documentary on BBC4 and it was so interesting but i couldn't remember what it was called for the life of me, but it pointed to there being something independent of time and space, some kind of paradox void i think was one of the descriptions. 75% of our universe is made of dark matter/energy and we have no clue what it is, so we are still plodding along and discovering, however i am always very open minded, however one thing that i won't change about is the fact that this universe is NOT made from nothing.
-
Doesn't the Koran mention a "dawn prayer" in 2458? Just when I am in a REM state? )
Salat Alfajr is not dawn prayer.
-
Isn't there this bit about humans and jinns only being created to worship?
Define worship? I think this would help.
-
Yep, getting better, much better.
It does not resolve the circular reasoning, but explains your opinion.Why not?
Why not?
Why?
Ok, this I respect. I will chat with Lawrence Krauss about this next week. He wrote a book about it (A Universe from Nothing) and made several videos, but they are still too complicated so I want to know if he can help make it easier to understand for people who are not scientists and cosmologists.
That's your opinion and that's fine if it works for you.
Selam StopS,
I have been reading your post and discussions(hardly i would call it discussion), you are either taking a Mickey of the subject or love talking nonsense or trying to make a sense out of nonsense which is it? I think you are a total JOKER, which is not a right place here to carry that sort title! Circus would be the place I recon!! First of all, let me tell you this much,please do not take this as a personal attack to you. I am not doing that, what i am doing is giving my opinion as straight as an arrow to YOU what YOU really are.
You do not believe existing of God,Creator,Ultimate designer or High and Mighty. If someone does not even recognize God's existence how can he possibly have a healthy discussion? That is beyond my comprehension and would be for anybodies for that matter. God has given us incredibly design something called Brain and gave you all the faculties which you can explore,search and find the truth. As sushi1992 responded one of your post this universe popped up from nowhere without creator and creation has a creator. It is simple as that. If you are going to ask which thats what you have been doing for every word ''WHY,WHY.WHY like a little kid asking to mum or dad, how come lollipop man did come three o'clock instead of four o'clock or Why does he sell the ice lollipop or WHY he is called lollipop man. You can answer all these to a kid with reasonable explanation until you run out of patience, but when it comes down to explanation of existing of God you will have to be prices,accurate and simple! All you have to say to a kid, look around you son,look at yourself,look at the sky,look at the rain,snow,wind,trees,birds,ants and the air you are breathing. Can you create all that? without a doubt he will say NO. This big NO leaves him with one Answer, it is a GOD,High and Mighty.
I would have understood if you even criticize the scriptures and its translations which gives more than one way of understanding sometimes, But I just could not comprehend any doubts or disbelief of existing of GOD as you have been proven on your posts.
One thing we all have to remember, God has permits us explore everything in this life but we are not permitted to try to prove his non existing because simply we do not have that capability also it would be very much denying the fact as OURSELVES are the product of the God. So How does it makes sense not to believe or question of existing of God??? So all your silly and nonsense posts leaves you with Big Nothing and makes you no more than a empty box in a human body!!
So all the Why,why with the some sciencetifically decorated words does not make you the man proving a point, not when you are in denial of your own being is the answer existing of God. You see StopS, You will know the answers how the rain becomes a rain or snow becomes a snow buy you will never know in order to prove what is behind the potencial power or force and incredibly designed and perfectly balanced this universe and everything else on it.Because that is GOD/CREATOR which sadly you put in question of existing.Where you can not explain or answer things thats where you find the GOD.
I hope I managed to explain in plain language about what God's existence.Be in peace with yourself.
-
Selam StopS,
I have been reading your post and discussions(hardly i would call it discussion), you are either taking a Mickey of the subject or love talking nonsense or trying to make a sense out of nonsense which is it? I think you are a total JOKER, which is not a right place here to carry that sort title! Circus would be the place I recon!! First of all, let me tell you this much,please do not take this as a personal attack to you. I am not doing that, what i am doing is giving my opinion as straight as an arrow to YOU what YOU really are.
You do not believe existing of God,Creator,Ultimate designer or High and Mighty. If someone does not even recognize God's existence how can he possibly have a healthy discussion? That is beyond my comprehension and would be for anybodies for that matter. God has given us incredibly design something called Brain and gave you all the faculties which you can explore,search and find the truth. As sushi1992 responded one of your post this universe popped up from nowhere without creator and creation has a creator. It is simple as that. If you are going to ask which thats what you have been doing for every word ''WHY,WHY.WHY like a little kid asking to mum or dad, how come lollipop man did come three o'clock instead of four o'clock or Why does he sell the ice lollipop or WHY he is called lollipop man. You can answer all these to a kid with reasonable explanation until you run out of patience, but when it comes down to explanation of existing of God you will have to be prices,accurate and simple! All you have to say to a kid, look around you son,look at yourself,look at the sky,look at the rain,snow,wind,trees,birds,ants and the air you are breathing. Can you create all that? without a doubt he will say NO. This big NO leaves him with one Answer, it is a GOD,High and Mighty.
I would have understood if you even criticize the scriptures and its translations which gives more than one way of understanding sometimes, But I just could not comprehend any doubts or disbelief of existing of GOD as you have been proven on your posts.
One thing we all have to remember, God has permits us explore everything in this life but we are not permitted to try to prove his non existing because simply we do not have that capability also it would be very much denying the fact as OURSELVES are the product of the God. So How does it makes sense not to believe or question of existing of God??? So all your silly and nonsense posts leaves you with Big Nothing and makes you no more than a empty box in a human body!!
So all the Why,why with the some sciencetifically decorated words does not make you the man proving a point, not when you are in denial of your own being is the answer existing of God. You see StopS, You will know the answers how the rain becomes a rain or snow becomes a snow buy you will never know in order to prove what is behind the potencial power or force and incredibly designed and perfectly balanced this universe and everything else on it.Because that is GOD/CREATOR which sadly you put in question of existing.Where you can not explain or answer things thats where you find the GOD.
I hope I managed to explain in plain language about what God's existence.Be in peace with yourself.
nervously awaits rebuttle &
-
I must have missed the part where you explained what your views are. I asked you before but you keep questioning my beliefs and i haven't really seen what you actually believe. I am curious. By the way, the sentence that started with "the fact that" is meant to end with a question mark, my bad .
No further comment on the list of unrealistic assertions?
Yes, quite right. I am trying to understand what people believe and why. I believe what I have a reason to believe. I believe my car is in the garage even though I don't have a camera confirming this. I believe it will rain this week. I believe that the sun will be there tomorrow. I believe supernovas occur. I believe the Higgs Field exists.
Also, how can you be so sure that this neighbouring galaxy is going to be the end of us?
I didn't. I said the 2 galaxies will collide.
Do you not read science news recently? How about where NASA were talking about an asteroid (nicknamed the "doomsday asteroid" has a 2.7% chance of hitting the Earth? An asteroid is going to pass by the Earth the closest for the first time around 15th of February this year. The tragectory and speed of asteroids is ever changing and "CAN" direct itself towards us. What then? Do you reckon people will care about your "Andromeda will hit the Milky Way" view then? I don't think so. Don't make it sound like you know when the world will end. You can estimate all you want.
I did not. This is you jumping to conclusions.
Of course I am willing to accept that there is a creator or not however my CURRENT logic works like this. A creation needs a creator.
Define creation.
Explain why you think the Universe or life was created.
Explain the mechanism and process. You must have thought about this too.The ultimate creator is independent of time or space.
Why?
Who defined this?There was a documentary on BBC4 and it was so interesting but i couldn't remember what it was called for the life of me, but it pointed to there being something independent of time and space, some kind of paradox void i think was one of the descriptions. 75% of our universe is made of dark matter/energy and we have no clue what it is, so we are still plodding along and discovering, however i am always very open minded, however one thing that i won't change about is the fact that this universe is NOT made from nothing.
Fine.
-
Salat Alfajr is not dawn prayer.
Why?
Surat Al-Fajr (The Dawn) -
891
Sahih International - By the dawnSome examples of Generally Accepted Translations of the Meaning of 2458
Muhammad Asadbefore the prayer of daybreak
M. M. PickthallBefore the prayer of dawn
Dr. Laleh BakhtiarBefore the dawn formal prayer
before dawn prayer,
dawn contact-method,
Abdel Haleembefore the dawn prayer;
Abdul Majid Daryabadibefore the dawn prayer
Aisha Bewleybefore the Dawn Prayer,
Ali Quli Qara'ibefore the dawn prayer -
-
Selam StopS,
I have been reading your post and discussions(hardly i would call it discussion), you are either taking a Mickey of the subject or love talking nonsense or trying to make a sense out of nonsense which is it?I don't know! How can I? But why don't you provide examples so that both of us know what you are talking about? Throwing around wild accusations does not really help in bringing constructive criticism to the table.
I think you are a total JOKER, which is not a right place here to carry that sort title! Circus would be the place I recon!! First of all, let me tell you this much,please do not take this as a personal attack to you. I am not doing that, what i am doing is giving my opinion as straight as an arrow to YOU what YOU really are.
If you think this is a circus, suit yourself. I see it as a platform enabling human beings to exchange ideas and discuss topics of interest. If you object to my sense of humour, fine. If you object to my objectivity and inability to take everything serious, that is your personal opinion, which you are perfectly entitled to have.
You do not believe existing of God,Creator,Ultimate designer or High and Mighty.
That is not true and I have said so several times. Where did I say this? If you are going to analyse me and provide a critique I would stay with the facts and not fabricate stuff, ok?
If someone does not even recognize God's existence how can he possibly have a healthy discussion? That is beyond my comprehension and would be for anybodies for that matter.
It is called objectivity and seeing our natural environment with an open mind. Are you speaking for all nations and people of this world? Wow! You need to acknowledge that only 1 out 5 humans you believe that a creator creates believe something similar to what you believe. All others, ie the 4 out of 5 believe you are wrong. THAT is reality.
God has given us incredibly design something called Brain and gave you all the faculties which you can explore,search and find the truth.
Maybe you believe this - but why should I?
As sushi1992 responded one of your post this universe popped up from nowhere without creator and creation has a creator. It is simple as that. If you are going to ask which thats what you have been doing for every word ''WHY,WHY.WHY like a little kid asking to mum or dad, how come lollipop man did come three o'clock instead of four o'clock or Why does he sell the ice lollipop or WHY he is called lollipop man. You can answer all these to a kid with reasonable explanation until you run out of patience, but when it comes down to explanation of existing of God you will have to be prices,accurate and simple! All you have to say to a kid, look around you son,look at yourself,look at the sky,look at the rain,snow,wind,trees,birds,ants and the air you are breathing. Can you create all that? without a doubt he will say NO. This big NO leaves him with one Answer, it is a GOD,High and Mighty.
This is where are in total disagreement. I find the word "WHY" to be the most powerful word in the Universe. It brought us an understanding of gravity, particles, processes and every conceivable bit of knowledge we have today. If there were more people saying that "why" is unnecessary and we have the one book telling us all we need we would still be in the 7th century.
I would have understood if you even criticize the scriptures and its translations which gives more than one way of understanding sometimes, But I just could not comprehend any doubts or disbelief of existing of GOD as you have been proven on your posts.
What is the point of criticising Islam or the Koran? I want to learn and not judge. OK, in some threads I get strident due to the amazing misconceptions, but if humans want to believe something, fine by me.
One thing we all have to remember, God has permits us explore everything in this life but we are not permitted to try to prove his non existing because simply we do not have that capability also it would be very much denying the fact as OURSELVES are the product of the God.
How do you have this amazing knowledge about what a god wants and expects??
So How does it makes sense not to believe or question of existing of God???
I have no idea. Can you tell me? Can you tell me why I should believe something without evidence? You don't understand something and say god did it. But you have no reason to do so. You just do it. Do I criticise you for that? NO! So why do you question my approach without providing a realistic alternative?
So all your silly and nonsense posts leaves you with Big Nothing and makes you no more than a empty box in a human body!!
For me that is better than believing something without a reason. There are different types of humans and you want to apply blind faith and remain ignorant about reality. Fine by me, it is your choice. However, again you make some wild assertions, without even trying to explain what it is that you find "silly and nonsense". If you accuse someone of something, please tell them what it is and why. Even if you don't like the "why".
So all the Why,why with the some sciencetifically decorated words does not make you the man proving a point, not when you are in denial of your own being is the answer existing of God.
Since it is not my aspiration "to be the man" I am cool with that. Hahaha, no, I don't deny that I exist. That's funny!
Now look at your logics you say that because I see no evidence for the existence of any god I am the answer for the existence of a god? How does that work?? Oh man, you need to think a bit more.You see StopS, You will know the answers how the rain becomes a rain or snow becomes a snow buy you will never know in order to prove what is behind the potencial power or force and incredibly designed and perfectly balanced this universe and everything else on it.Because that is GOD/CREATOR which sadly you put in question of existing.Where you can not explain or answer things thats where you find the GOD.
I hope I managed to explain in plain language about what God's existence.Be in peace with yourself.
Sadly, no, you have not managed anything. Because you have not produced anything except special and emotional pleading. But thank you for voicing your opinion.
-
No further comment on the list of unrealistic assertions?
Yes, quite right. I am trying to understand what people believe and why. I believe what I have a reason to believe. I believe my car is in the garage even though I don't have a camera confirming this. I believe it will rain this week. I believe that the sun will be there tomorrow. I believe supernovas occur. I believe the Higgs Field exists.
I didn't. I said the 2 galaxies will collide.
I did not. This is you jumping to conclusions.
Define creation.
Explain why you think the Universe or life was created.
Explain the mechanism and process. You must have thought about this too.Why?
Who defined this?Fine.
Sorry, I'm assuming you meant this list?
Something wanted this whole universe to be -> Arguable in the sense that either something wanted this universe to 'be' or it was an accident
Something thought to create all of this -> Once again, can be that something wanted this to happen, or it was a random accident
It is independent of time and space -> From our current knowledge, time and space was created after the "big bang (if this is what happened). There was something before that had to create this "big bang", hence you come to the conclusion that this something is independent of time and space
not effected by the laws that it created itself -> depends how you see this, the creator tells us that (3030) god never changes its laws of nature, so god will not break the laws that have been put in place. If you want to think of this as the creator being effected or not by its laws, thats up to you .
Something was independent of time and space (discussed above)
It's too much of a coincidence -> this is my personal observation based on how this world has become - i could explain further if you want
It's too much of a coincidence to say that some randomness made this all happen in perfect measurements -> When i say perfect measurements, i'm talking about how everything is perfectly synchronized. If you want to call it "randomness", then calculate the probability of randomness perfecting such certain measurements (i'm sure you can name a few).
how the moon came about -> My point was more on how the moon affects us and if we need a moon or not. Of course we need a moon and how it came about was simply the creator's laws coming into play.
A few cms out of sync -> You reckon this is unrealistic? Maybe in your country you can't watch documentaries from BBC, but if you looked this up, you could know that the moon is the object that creates the tides going in and out, and if the moon moves away a few cms, it will cause many countries to be fully submersed in water. This is a fact, no religious hanky panky .
I just think it's too much of a coincidence -> haha i noticed i said this too often
"I didn't. I said the 2 galaxies will collide." -> How do you know? It's a prediction. A bit like saying that someone playing football shoots towards the goal. It's on course to go in, but someone does a sliding tackle and causes a deflection. Same concept here. 2 galaxies may be on course for collision, but who says that something won't destroy this Earth before that even happens?
My apologies if i jumped to any conclusions. I get lost sometimes with the number of "whys" you ask and sometimes can't see what you actually think sometimes - by the way, i think "whys" are good .
Define creation = The action or process of bringing something into existence (does google count angel
Hmm, you want my opinion on why the universe or life was created? Some things i cannot comprehend. This is quite a big question to ask. I can't give you a serious in-depth answer as it's even difficult for me to explain "why" the universe was made. What i can tell you is i think that we are not the only people in this universe with similar questions or curiosity, so i believe that it's not only us who need to be abiding by the creators laws in the universe, why create it? Hmm it's difficult to answer. I'll be honest, i don't think i can word my thoughts good enough to answer the question of why life was created. It's too complicated for me to word in my brain let alone type it out, so sorry .
The mechanism and process of the creation of the universe to me seems like this. I believe that there was a "big bang" OR a cyclic universe (regardless of this i believe an initial big bang happened). Now after this big bang, which i believe was eloquently devised, there was a fraction more matter than anti-matter. Because of this, the process of creating occurs. Higgs boson is said to be the particle responsible for the mass in every object of the universe, so this obviously was created for that purpose. Then, after that, the universe expanded very quickly, planets were formed using the basic materials that we know of. We have our natural forces like gravity being one of the most important i can think of. Then once Earth was formed along with the moon which, as far as i know from research, was formed by actually being a comet colliding with the Earth (not the Earth we know of today) and because of friction, both moon and Earth were spherical due to circular velocity consisting of the gravitational pull that the Earth does towards the moon and that the moon slightly does to the Earth. The planet cools down, elements such as water emerge etc etc. I'm not going to go into detail because i'm not scientifically well equipped enough nor studied it deep enough to explain the whole process confidently. Hope that wasn't too much of a fail of my beliefs.
-
Hi, StopS,
I am so pleased that you have responded to my post!! Because You have proven what exactly I thought of you. As you have admitted with your own words that YOU DO NOT BELIEVE EXISTING OF GOD and YOU ARE SEEKING REALISTIC ALTERNATIVE and asking me to provide that for you!! What I wrote was not an assay. It was a post written directly to you that may be,but just may be I might make you see the GOD you do not believe exist. Did I managed that? Unfortunately NO,as your reply post proved. If you are that much blind,even you can not see the God/Creator by just LOOKING AT YOURSELF, than I rest my case and can not do anything anymore for you pal. When I say''How can one have a civilized and realistic discussion with somebody who does not even recognize/believe Existing of God/Creator?'' That is exactly what I referred to somebody like you. Simply that would not be called discussion or any realistic debate! Because there is a BIG missing factor which is a core of the case''GOD/CREATOR'' that you do not believe in any form. Do you think you can have discussion with anyone with that sort of mind set? I don't think so. As I said you are a big empty box in a human body! Do I feel sorry for you? In some respect very much. God is a Knower. I just pray he shows his mercy and forgiveness on you and all of us.Let me make this clear, when I said to you''YOU DO NOT BELIEVE EXISTING OF GOD/HIGH AND MIGHTY'' Your response was''That is not true. And I have said so several times. If you are going to analyse me provide a critic I would stay with the fact not fabricated stuff ok''
Than I said'' If someone does not recognize existing of God how can he have a healthy discussion, that is beyond my comprehension and would be anybodies for that matter'' Your response was'' It is called objectivity seeing our natural environment bla,bla,''
Than after all the explanation regarding existing of God, I said''So how does it makes sense not to believe or question of existing of God''
Your response was'' I have no idea. can you tell me?Why I should believe something without evidence, etc.etc.''
Look pal, that is exactly my point. YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY BELIEF THAT GOD/CREATOR EXIST. You have been contradicting yourself in every sentence you put here,you are in denial of your own being and looking for a escape route by saying a few nonsensical words it is called objectivity of our natural environment etc. What are you talking about. Just come clean and be honest with yourself. Bottom line is,
if the starting point not to believe or dismissing of existing of God/Creator and commence with the discussion, will be flawed and won't make any sense or meaning. Furthermore I don't know how old you are but you have lots of ground to make up in order to start talk about anything. It is very much obvious that you do not have any belief existing of God behind all of this,us,universe and everything else on it. So, Whatever I say here won't make any different.. however one thing I like to say to you, which I said it before, JUST LOOK AT YOURSELF! AS A WHOLE. Believe me you will know whether GOD/CREATOR is exist or not. Anything created without a doubt has a CREATOR.
WE JUST DON'T COME OR DID NOT COME AS A PACKAGE FROM EBAY OR AMAZON!!!
If you wish to entertain people here as a comedian that is your proagrative but as far as I am concerned I am done with you,pal.
Be in peace with yourself. -
Sorry, I'm assuming you meant this list?
Precisely. Now, if you look at what you have written, you will see that it is a mix of what you've heard and most is what you think is what happened. Because you don't have the facts, some of the things don't makes sense to you. And that's why you succumb to simplistic argumentation which would be unnecessary if you just looked up a few things. Example you say that "if the moon moves away a few cms, it will cause many countries to be fully submersed in water". That is so bizarre. Are you aware that the moon shifts its position by something like 50.000 kilometres each year? Are you aware the moon is shifting orbit and is offset by 5 degrees? There is nothing perfect in space! You are listening to misconceptions, not facts.
Some planets we know of in our own solar system have barely completed an orbit since we started looking at them, yet we know they are in an orbit around our Sun. How do we know this? Mathematics. How do we know the Universe is expanding? Mathematics? How do we know the expansion is still accelerating? Mathematics. How do we know Andromeda is on a collision course with the Milky Way? Mathematics.
You said that creation = bringing something into existence
Do you know this does not really exist? You can't "bring something into existence" or can you tell me when a water puddle is "brought something into existence"? Or when a beach is "brought something into existence"?You use words such as "chance" and "probability" and when I ask you for the process without chance and high probabilities you don't explain the process of the start of our Universe, but everything that happened much later, using physical science developed by humans. Did you notice that? What about the beginning?
-
Hi, StopS,
I am so pleased that you have responded to my post!! Because You have proven what exactly I thought of you. As you have admitted with your own words that YOU DO NOT BELIEVE EXISTING OF GOD and YOU ARE SEEKING REALISTIC ALTERNATIVE and asking me to provide that for you!!Because that would be so unlike me, I will have to ask you to provide evidence. To my knowledge I have NEVER ever said what you claim.
What I wrote was not an assay. It was a post written directly to you that may be,but just may be I might make you see the GOD you do not believe exist. Did I managed that? Unfortunately NO,as your reply post proved. If you are that much blind,even you can not see the God/Creator by just LOOKING AT YOURSELF, than I rest my case and can not do anything anymore for you pal. When I say''How can one have a civilized and realistic discussion with somebody who does not even recognize/believe Existing of God/Creator?'' That is exactly what I referred to somebody like you. Simply that would not be called discussion or any realistic debate! Because there is a BIG missing factor which is a core of the case''GOD/CREATOR'' that you do not believe in any form. Do you think you can have discussion with anyone with that sort of mind set? I don't think so. As I said you are a big empty box in a human body! Do I feel sorry for you? In some respect very much. God is a Knower. I just pray he shows his mercy and forgiveness on you and all of us.
If you fail at providing evidence for the existence of a god and only pray and hope, I can't do anything more, can I?
Let me make this clear, when I said to you''YOU DO NOT BELIEVE EXISTING OF GOD/HIGH AND MIGHTY'' Your response was''That is not true. And I have said so several times. If you are going to analyse me provide a critic I would stay with the fact not fabricated stuff ok''
Than I said'' If someone does not recognize existing of God how can he have a healthy discussion, that is beyond my comprehension and would be anybodies for that matter'' Your response was'' It is called objectivity seeing our natural environment bla,bla,''
Than after all the explanation regarding existing of God, I said''So how does it makes sense not to believe or question of existing of God''
Your response was'' I have no idea. can you tell me?Why I should believe something without evidence, etc.etc.''
Look pal, that is exactly my point. YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY BELIEF THAT GOD/CREATOR EXIST.Could you PLEASE stop misrepresenting what I say?! You need to learn to be more precise. If I say something, I am saying this for a reason and not for you to see what you want to see and understand what you want to understand.
You have been contradicting yourself in every sentence you put here
Proof? DON'T just throw stuff around, prove it! You look pretty silly just inventing things and making stuff up without anything to show for it!
,you are in denial of your own being and looking for a escape route by saying a few nonsensical words it is called objectivity of our natural environment etc. What are you talking about.
Oh boy, another one of these smart Alecs. Now you are telling me what I think? You don't have the brain for that, my china.
Just come clean and be honest with yourself. Bottom line is, if the starting point not to believe or dismissing of existing of God/Creator and commence with the discussion, will be flawed and won't make any sense or meaning.
What part of "But why don't you provide examples so that both of us know what you are talking about?" don't you understand?
What part of "If you are going to analyse me and provide a critique I would stay with the facts and not fabricate stuff, ok?" don't you understand?
What part of "Maybe you believe this - but why should I?" don't you understand?
What part of "How do you have this amazing knowledge about what a god wants and expects??" don't you understand?
What part of "Can you tell me?" don't you understand?
What part of "Can you tell me why I should believe something without evidence?" don't you understand?
What part of "So why do you question my approach without providing a realistic alternative?" don't you understand?You fail big time at making any kind of rational argument and just stand there like a stubborn kid, arms crossed and stomping your feet.
Furthermore I don't know how old you are but you have lots of ground to make up in order to start talk about anything. It is very much obvious that you do not have any belief existing of God behind all of this,us,universe and everything else on it. So, Whatever I say here won't make any different.. however one thing I like to say to you, which I said it before, JUST LOOK AT YOURSELF! AS A WHOLE. Believe me you will know whether GOD/CREATOR is exist or not. Anything created without a doubt has a CREATOR.
WE JUST DON'T COME OR DID NOT COME AS A PACKAGE FROM EBAY OR AMAZON!!!
If you wish to entertain people here as a comedian that is your proagrative but as far as I am concerned I am done with you,pal.
Be in peace with yourself.So now that you still have not answered my questions, I suggest you either try again or leave it. And the word I reckon you are trying to find in your childish hate rant is "prerogative".
-
Precisely. Now, if you look at what you have written, you will see that it is a mix of what you've heard and most is what you think is what happened. Because you don't have the facts, some of the things don't makes sense to you. And that's why you succumb to simplistic argumentation which would be unnecessary if you just looked up a few things. Example you say that "if the moon moves away a few cms, it will cause many countries to be fully submersed in water". That is so bizarre. Are you aware that the moon shifts its position by something like 50.000 kilometres each year? Are you aware the moon is shifting orbit and is offset by 5 degrees? There is nothing perfect in space! You are listening to misconceptions, not facts.
Some planets we know of in our own solar system have barely completed an orbit since we started looking at them, yet we know they are in an orbit around our Sun. How do we know this? Mathematics. How do we know the Universe is expanding? Mathematics? How do we know the expansion is still accelerating? Mathematics. How do we know Andromeda is on a collision course with the Milky Way? Mathematics.
You said that creation = bringing something into existence
Do you know this does not really exist? You can't "bring something into existence" or can you tell me when a water puddle is "brought something into existence"? Or when a beach is "brought something into existence"?You use words such as "chance" and "probability" and when I ask you for the process without chance and high probabilities you don't explain the process of the start of our Universe, but everything that happened much later, using physical science developed by humans. Did you notice that? What about the beginning?
I was simply going by what I currently and VERY recently thought i'd "learnt" about the moon. Unfortunately, i sometimes don't have the time or patience to keep looking at many sites and judge by which one is more correct than the other. Judging from the documentary, it could have been a misconception. Nothing new really since i saw a documentary about Muslim women was such a load of crud it's unbelievable. The author of the documentary explained that if the moon keeps moving further and further away, countries could be flooded. I might have got the "few cms" part confused as i was merely recalling the documentary from memory which was a while ago, people do make mistakes in their knowledge sometimes. But one thing is for sure, of course the moon causes tidal waves (as well as our sun) and if the moon ends up too far away from Earth (which, taking into account the Earth isn't destroyed some other alternative way by then) then if we essentially had no moon, Earth will not have those forces acting on its crust and will change tectonic forces on the mantal. Volcanic and earthquake activity could be affected by this but theres a long way to go about this.
What's your point? I agree mathematics is very useful as it explains the natural laws of our universe...
In terms of your definition of "creation"
creation
n- the act or process of creating
- the fact of being created or produced
- something that has been brought into existence or created, esp a product of human intelligence or imagination
- the whole universe, including the world and all the things in it
What definition are you happy with if any? Do you wish to create your own definition giveup ?
What do you want to know about the beginning of the universe? A supposed big bang occurred and everything started rapidly expanding. Scientists cannot tell you what happened before the beginning of the universe. I was reading a piece from Stephen Hawking
"The irregularities in the early universe will mean that some regions will have slightly higher density than others. The gravitational attraction of the extra density will slow the expansion of the region, and can eventually cause the region to collapse to form galaxies and stars. So look well at the map of the microwave sky. It is the blue print for all the structure in the universe. We are the product of quantum fluctuations in the very early universe. God really does play dice.
We have made tremendous progress in cosmology in the last hundred years. The General Theory of Relativity and the discovery of the expansion of the universe shattered the old picture of an ever existing and ever lasting universe. Instead, general relativity predicted that the universe, and time itself, would begin in the big bang. It also predicted that time would come to an end in black holes. The discovery of the cosmic microwave background and observations of black holes support these conclusions. This is a profound change in our picture of the universe and of reality itself. Although the General Theory of Relativity predicted that the universe must have come from a period of high curvature in the past, it could not predict how the universe would emerge from the big bang. Thus general relativity on its own cannot answer the central question in cosmology Why is the universe the way it is? However, if general relativity is combined with quantum theory, it may be possible to predict how the universe would start. It would initially expand at an ever increasing rate.
During this so called inflationary period, the marriage of the two theories predicted that small fluctuations would develop and lead to the formation of galaxies, stars, and all the other structure in the universe. This is confirmed by observations of small non uniformities in the cosmic microwave background, with exactly the predicted properties. So it seems we are on our way to understanding the origin of the universe, though much more work will be needed. A new window on the very early universe will be opened when we can detect gravitational waves by accurately measuring the distances between space craft. Gravitational waves propagate freely to us from earliest times, unimpeded by any intervening material. By contrast, light is scattered many times by free electrons. The scattering goes on until the electrons freeze out, after 300,000 years."
I didn't have the time to read up specific details about General Relativity and explain it all so i simplified it by saying "Yes, big bang occurred then expansion". I do have a pretty scientific view of the beginning of the universe which in no way contradicts there being a creator. I can't give you more about the beginning. I don't want this becoming a physics lesson. laugh
-
I was simply going by what I currently and VERY recently thought i'd "learnt" about the moon.
That would explain it, yes.
What's your point? I agree mathematics is very useful as it explains the natural laws of our universe...
You asked why do I think we know some things. I showed you.
In terms of your definition of "creation"
What definition are you happy with if any? Do you wish to create your own definition giveup ?
The problem is that some dictionaries contain religious references to pander to the Christians in the US. I gave you an example for the inconsistency of this idea,
What do you want to know about the beginning of the universe? A supposed big bang occurred and everything started rapidly expanding. Scientists cannot tell you what happened before the beginning of the universe. I was reading a piece from Stephen Hawking
I was looking for a description based on the Koran or what you think. Not the part after the Big Bang, but the part leading up to it.
I didn't have the time to read up specific details about General Relativity and explain it all so i simplified it by saying "Yes, big bang occurred then expansion". I do have a pretty scientific view of the beginning of the universe which in no way contradicts there being a creator. I can't give you more about the beginning. I don't want this becoming a physics lesson. laugh
I agree. We are spending much too much time on science. I am not so interested in that. Could you go back to what happens if you never fast and never go on Hajj or Umrah?