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  4. Do we need books to believe in God?

Do we need books to believe in God?

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  • N Offline
    N Offline
    Noon_waalqalami
    wrote on last edited by
    #49

    lgv-added=2 62 102 ?
    what is 62

    26040
    (2) (2+60=62) (2+60+40=102)
    thus 2 62 102

    I asked you write your own text in Arabic with 4 words and 19 letters then do your show.

    You claim there is code thus burden is on the claimant.

    Try to reproduce this 4 word 19 letter text/pattern...
    indeed we gave you to drink it the wine traces
    150 16010010501204065 13060040200 1500 = 19 x ...
    2+10+5+2 = 19 x 1
    2 10 5 2 = 19 x 1108
    2 1 10 2 5 3 2 4 = 19 x 11106596
    2 1 12 2 17 3 19 4 = 19 x 1111693326
    3 1 15 2 23 3 29 4 = 19 x 1639591226
    51 1 293 2 871 3 501 4 = 19 x 26910173007106
    51 1 344 2 1215 3 1716 4 = 19 x 2691285327121956

    Do you think this is coincidence ?

    Not coincidence each time you come across non-multiple you skip or add/delete to make multiple.

    Do you claim that all those 58 verses can be manipulated as you did with first one and have same patterns already you have.?

    No, that is what you have to show is a consistent pattern and apply to every verse.
    That is code; input variables in consistent exact sequence each time output multiple.

    Peace

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    • B Offline
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      Bahman
      wrote on last edited by
      #50

      26040
      (2) (2+60=62) (2+60+40=102)
      thus 2 62 102

      You claim there is code thus burden is on the claimant.

      Try to reproduce this 4 word 19 letter text/pattern...
      indeed we gave you to drink it the wine traces
      150 16010010501204065 13060040200 1500 = 19 x ...
      2+10+5+2 = 19 x 1
      2 10 5 2 = 19 x 1108
      2 1 10 2 5 3 2 4 = 19 x 11106596
      2 1 12 2 17 3 19 4 = 19 x 1111693326
      3 1 15 2 23 3 29 4 = 19 x 1639591226
      51 1 293 2 871 3 501 4 = 19 x 26910173007106
      51 1 344 2 1215 3 1716 4 = 19 x 2691285327121956

      Not coincidence each time you come across non-multiple you skip or add/delete to make multiple.

      No, that is what you have to show is a consistent pattern and apply to every verse.
      That is code; input variables in consistent exact sequence each time output multiple.

      Peace

      you have posted 5 times and now 6th .
      You are proud of your work when using computer and programs to find words that fit into your cumulation and such forcing has caused such micky mouse design with none sense meaning.
      color=red] indeed we gave you to drink it the wine traces

      indeed we gave you to drink it the wine traces !!!c

      I let those that know good Arabic check it and those that are good in English translate it.

      How ever even you make a good text you have used computer to adjust it to your need. and certainly your work is a DESIGN to function with code 19 .
      If yours is design then why those discoveries are not considered same as your work without using computer.?

      For consistency i have shown how chapters with same patterns could be categorized into groups, i did not had time to do whole book as ima not very good like you for these kinds of calc. you may complete it ;D

      Nothing is coincidence even our presence on this screen and discussing such issues.

      Regardless proof for book have it or do not have it the question is the topic.

      We may stop this calc and take to the place which has been pondered many times and let others share their comments, you very welcome for your input but just topic please.
      Thank you for your effort and causing some new thing to be discovered by you as i have explained in previous posts
      Peace

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      • E Offline
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        easternqibla
        wrote on last edited by
        #51

        Returning to the original question

        Do we need books to believe in God?

        Either way yes or no please explain why?

        I posted here before, but remembered this quotation

        Narrated Jabir bin 'Abd Allah "We were with the Prophet when a Companion brought in a fledgling which he had caught, and one of the parent birds came and threw itself into the hands of him who had taken its young.

        I saw men's faces full of wonderment, and the Prophet said
        'Do ye wonder at this bird? Ye have taken its young, and it hath thrown itself down in merciful tenderness unto its young. Yet I swear by God, your Lord is more merciful unto you than is this bird unto its fledgling.'

        And he told the man to put back the young bird where he had found it."

        (Martin Lings, Muhammad His Life Based on the Earliest Sources, p. 20
        http//www.quranclub.net/2009/11/fledgling.html

        'Yet I swear by God, your Lord is more merciful unto you than is this bird unto its fledgling' Did the parent bird tweet instructions to its fledgling? Did it write anything in a book to its fledgling? So too with Allah.

        It's interesting, as an Orthodox Christian, I have read stuff Muslims have written against God becoming incarnate, and agree with what they say fully, in no way twisting things. It's just that our Christian terminology is somewhat loose (although various long councils have explained our beliefs more fully) that is why I can read the Quran and agree with it.

        Jesus is the Word bestowed on Mary, the Word which took flesh from her. Therefore we do not need words or books to listen to or to learn from if we can find the Word-in-humanity inside us.

        Simply really,

        Richard

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          Bahman
          wrote on last edited by
          #52

          Therefore we do not need words or books to listen to or to learn from if we can find the Word-in-humanity inside us.
          Simply really,
          Richard

          Peace
          Agree but when we promote existence of God on this screen then we need proof for such claim.
          My source for such proof is Quran.
          Peace

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          • E Offline
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            easternqibla
            wrote on last edited by
            #53

            Peace
            Agree but when we promote existence of God on this screen then we need proof for such claim.
            My source for such proof is Quran.
            Peace

            Depends on your interpretation of Jesus being the Word bestowed on Mary. Do we read the Quran alone (or with hadith) to try to understand it, or assume the same understanding as the Christian Ethiopian King to whom these verses were quoted?
            peace
            Richard

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            • B Offline
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              Bahman
              wrote on last edited by
              #54

              Depends on your interpretation of Jesus being the Word bestowed on Mary. Do we read the Quran alone (or with hadith) to try to understand it, or assume the same understanding as the Christian Ethiopian King to whom these verses were quoted?
              peace
              Richard

              Peace
              Over hundreds religions with their book and by many interpolations which has caused such divisions and sub divisions and causing such situation because each of us raise with our parents belief and we follow it blindly regardless our knowledge and education, but if we leave away the stories and hadith all of those claim the messages are for guiding human to straight path.
              In time of revealing those books up to few century when education started to be polpulare not only for rich and high level people more and more poeple could do their own study and search and now by such granted screen we can find truth in thousand of seconds when such search may was taking days, weeks even year time.

              Due to corruption in all religions the new generation re running away from religions and many of them are interested to believe in God without any book and such thing is recorded in Quran too.
              262

              Scholars and clergies sr till can do their paid job to promote their idols abusing name of God and his messages for those that they eyes are veiled and using books for n bloodshed , power and greed.

              Times go fast and in near future nobody goe to school to learn messages of God as God Alone is only TEACHER of his messages, Mufti bliion incorporated religions centers and school would be abandoned by people, as you said God is in humanity and all creation and anybody any time without any media man and building can meditate with his own God and no BOOK.

              Peace

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                GODsubmitter
                wrote on last edited by
                #55

                The book is a good guide to integrate the ego and the self for people who are not spiritually developed enough to do it without the book, just with God's guidance and grace, but the rest is anyway doomed to perish anyway.

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                  drfazl
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #56

                  the Word which took flesh from her.

                  Simply really,

                  Richard

                  Richard

                  Can you explain what do those words in brown mean to you without any reference from any Book?

                  Peace

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                  • U Offline
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                    uZi
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #57

                    It does make sense to me that we dont need to uphold any book to be guided by Allah. We can live a good righteous life, believe in one God, and that would be enough to give us access to heaven, but I came across some Quranic verses a long time ago

                    Allah has revealed the most beautiful hadith in the form of a Book, consistent with itself, (yet) repeating (its teaching in various aspects) the skins of those who fear their Lord tremble thereat; then their skins and their hearts do soften to the celebration of Allah's praises. Such is the guidance of Allah He guides therewith whom He pleases, but such as Allah leaves to stray, can have NO guide.

                    Indeed there has come to you from Allah a Light and a Clear Reading. With it Allah guides whoever follows His good pleasure to the ways of peace and brings them out from the darkness into the light by His permission He guides them onto a straight path.

                    Arent these verses suggesting that Allah guides ONLY through the Quran?

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                    • N Offline
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                      neb87
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #58

                      It does make sense to me that we dont need to uphold any book to be guided by Allah. We can live a good righteous life, believe in one God, and that would be enough to give us access to heaven, but I came across some Quranic verses a long time ago

                      Allah has revealed the most beautiful hadith in the form of a Book, consistent with itself, (yet) repeating (its teaching in various aspects) the skins of those who fear their Lord tremble thereat; then their skins and their hearts do soften to the celebration of Allah's praises. Such is the guidance of Allah He guides therewith whom He pleases, but such as Allah leaves to stray, can have NO guide.

                      Indeed there has come to you from Allah a Light and a Clear Reading. With it Allah guides whoever follows His good pleasure to the ways of peace and brings them out from the darkness into the light by His permission He guides them onto a straight path.

                      Arent these verses suggesting that Allah guides ONLY through the Quran?

                      I don't think it's suggesting that at all. I read it as those who choose to be guided through the Quran have the BEST guidance, those who have other books (Christians, Jews, etc.) have SOME guidance if they're honestly seeking it, and those who choose to stray have NO guidance. Also, there are the many verses that say that God will guide through His Signs, too, so that's another reason I don't think guidance comes ONLY through the Quran. But, I think you're more likely to see His Signs for what they are if you're being guided through the Quran.

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                        uZi
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #59

                        I don't think it's suggesting that at all. I read it as those who choose to be guided through the Quran have the BEST guidance, those who have other books (Christians, Jews, etc.) have SOME guidance if they're honestly seeking it, and those who choose to stray have NO guidance. Also, there are the many verses that say that God will guide through His Signs, too, so that's another reason I don't think guidance comes ONLY through the Quran. But, I think you're more likely to see His Signs for what they are if you're being guided through the Quran.

                        Yep, I agree.

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                          Bigmo
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #60

                          I don't think it's suggesting that at all. I read it as those who choose to be guided through the Quran have the BEST guidance, those who have other books (Christians, Jews, etc.) have SOME guidance if they're honestly seeking it, and those who choose to stray have NO guidance. Also, there are the many verses that say that God will guide through His Signs, too, so that's another reason I don't think guidance comes ONLY through the Quran. But, I think you're more likely to see His Signs for what they are if you're being guided through the Quran.

                          The Quran does not seperate itelf from the previous scriptures and never claimed the Quran is a "better guidance" than the previous scriptures.

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                            Noble_Reign
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #61

                            Theoretically you don?t need books to believe in God. However knowing idolaters, who distort religion and lead people off the path, having a good book as The Quran, is really a blessing from God.

                            As for Bigmos "Koran is no better guidance", this is completely wrong. The Quran says that the earlier books have been distorted. And that is obvious.

                            Some idolaterous art http//paradoxuncreated.com/Blog/wordpress/?p=8465

                            Some idolaterous art, is subconscious symbolism. Some dont even know they worship it, and it controls them.

                            So religion is not only wisdom, but clearly defined godconsciousness, that protects against such constructs.

                            And then you need ofcourse a precise book, that does not contain such symbolism itself.

                            But theoretically yes, one can believe in God. But also what happened at Mecca when the Quran arrived? Idolaterous symbolism defeated, and most became muslim. Unfortunately only to distort their religion again later, and idol-worship of "mohammed and partners" in hadith. Which is typical for all religion, to get distorted. However we still have The Quran.

                            And God is one, and without partners. And God controls everything between the heavens and the earth.

                            God, The beneficient, most merciful.

                            Peace Be With You.

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                              GODsubmitter
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #62

                              Theoretically you don?t need books to believe in God. However knowing idolaters, who distort religion and lead people off the path, having a good book as The Quran, is really a blessing from God.

                              As for Bigmos "Koran is no better guidance", this is completely wrong. The Quran says that the earlier books have been distorted. And that is obvious.

                              Some idolaterous art http//paradoxuncreated.com/Blog/wordpress/?p=8465

                              Some idolaterous art, is subconscious symbolism. Some dont even know they worship it, and it controls them.

                              So religion is not only wisdom, but clearly defined godconsciousness, that protects against such constructs.

                              And then you need ofcourse a precise book, that does not contain such symbolism itself.

                              But theoretically yes, one can believe in God. But also what happened at Mecca when the Quran arrived? Idolaterous symbolism defeated, and most became muslim. Unfortunately only to distort their religion again later, and idol-worship of "mohammed and partners" in hadith. Which is typical for all religion, to get distorted. However we still have The Quran.

                              And God is one, and without partners. And God controls everything between the heavens and the earth.

                              God, The beneficient, most merciful.

                              Peace Be With You.

                              Thanks for the post, you are perfectly right.

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                                neb87
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #63

                                The Quran does not seperate itelf from the previous scriptures and never claimed the Quran is a "better guidance" than the previous scriptures.

                                I hope I didn't offend with that statement. I only meant that as the Quran says the other scriptures were polluted by human touch, it may be harder to separate true guidance from human whims. Not impossible, though, as the Quran says that there are some people of all faiths who ignore the human touch and focus on His guidance in any previous scripture. So, maybe not better, just easier.

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                                  Jafar
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #64

                                  I hope I didn't offend with that statement. I only meant that as the Quran says the other scriptures were polluted by human touch, it may be harder to separate true guidance from human whims. Not impossible, though, as the Quran says that there are some people of all faiths who ignore the human touch and focus on His guidance in any previous scripture. So, maybe not better, just easier.

                                  Well..

                                  Even the Quran is not immune to be "polluted by human touch".
                                  Given, the Quran itself was written by human hands... heeelllooooo????

                                  In any case, God will give His Guidance to anyone whom He pleases..
                                  With His Guidance whether there's a book or no book doesn't really matter... the person will be guided.
                                  However people who read (and even memorized) all of the books will not be guided without His Guidance.

                                  Let's take some case studies

                                  Jesus
                                  He often quote from Tanakh (Torah, Nevim and Ketuvim) when he preaches to the Judeans. It indicates he's well versed in the book of Tanakh. Yet his enemy, the Sanhedrin Rabbis also read the same book, but apparently they're not among 'the guided'.
                                  In the Quran it's mentioned that "He (God) teach Jesus the BOOK (kitaba), the WISDOM /UNDERSTANDING (hikmat), the Torah and the Good News (Injeel)"

                                  Muhammad
                                  Apparently he never read any 'jewish scriptures'. As during his time direct access to Tanakh/Gospel is very rare and it's an exclusive rights of those who are a member of Nashara or Jewish society, which Muhammad is not a member of.
                                  Yet he did received God's guidance and ends up in writing a new book which is now being called as Quran. Although there's no guarantee that the Quran he wrote is the same as the Quran we have now.

                                  Summary God should be the main focus, only HE ALONE can give you guidance, and not the book or books..
                                  And God is actually closer to you than yourselves..

                                  Salam / Peace

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                                    neb87
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #65

                                    Well..

                                    Even the Quran is not immune to be "polluted by human touch".
                                    Given, the Quran itself was written by human hands... heeelllooooo????

                                    In any case, God will give His Guidance to anyone whom He pleases..
                                    With His Guidance whether there's a book or no book doesn't really matter... the person will be guided.
                                    However people who read (and even memorized) all of the books will not be guided without His Guidance.

                                    Let's take some case studies

                                    Jesus
                                    He often quote from Tanakh (Torah, Nevim and Ketuvim) when he preaches to the Judeans. It indicates he's well versed in the book of Tanakh. Yet his enemy, the Sanhedrin Rabbis also read the same book, but apparently they're not among 'the guided'.
                                    In the Quran it's mentioned that "He (God) teach Jesus the BOOK (kitaba), the WISDOM /UNDERSTANDING (hikmat), the Torah and the Good News (Injeel)"

                                    Muhammad
                                    Apparently he never read any 'jewish scriptures'. As during his time direct access to Tanakh/Gospel is very rare and it's an exclusive rights of those who are a member of Nashara or Jewish society, which Muhammad is not a member of.
                                    Yet he did received God's guidance and ends up in writing a new book which is now being called as Quran. Although there's no guarantee that the Quran he wrote is the same as the Quran we have now.

                                    Summary God should be the main focus, only HE ALONE can give you guidance, and not the book or books..
                                    And God is actually closer to you than yourselves..

                                    Salam / Peace

                                    I agree with you, completely. I don't think that any particular book is necessary to have a connection with God, as I know that I had one as an agnostic who thought all books written about God were total lies. But, the Quran did change my perspective when studying anything more than the Bible was ever able to. That's the only reason I uphold it as an easier guide, but I do recognize that this isn't true for everyone.

                                    It was much harder for me to look past the human inaccuracies and misinformation in the Bible and use it as a spiritual guide than it is with the Quran, but clearly there are billions of people who feel the same way about the Quran, the Torah, the Bible, the Kaballah, the Vedas or ANY book at all. As long as they've got God (whatever they call Him), IMO, they'll all be fine, regardless.

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                                      Bahman
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #66

                                      Peace everybody
                                      You are invited to join "No Book God " in face book
                                      https//www.facebook.com/groups/354601337989347/
                                      which is linked to this topic.

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                                        Bahman
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #67

                                        http//youtu.be/9FiHRVb_uE0

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                                          Bahman
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #68

                                          https//www.facebook.com/groups/nobookgod/

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