Core values.
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What is your stand on these core values in Islam
- Promiscuity-bad for society
- Homophilia -no opinion
- Intoxicants- should be avoided
- Criminality-unacceptable
And also
5) 19-interesting, but not needed for salvation
6) Hadith-no goodAnd is there any particular scholar you associate with your choices? -God
Peace Be With You. -
I guess we shouldn't prohibit skipping your taxes, since the Koran says nothing about that.
This is a bit of a strawman. The Quran states repeatedly that people should honor their oaths and respect the law of the land. If you're a citizen of a country that demands taxes be paid, that's a binding oath and law. You could try to argue your point with the tax-man, (that the Quran doesn't specifically say you have to) but I don't think it would work. ;D
Even the Amish have to pay taxes and they've got a stronger religious leg to stand on, seeing as how their beliefs are explicitly against it. -
I guess we shouldn't prohibit skipping your taxes, since the Koran says nothing about that.
Taxes are based on the use of public goods like roads, bridges, emergency hospitals, public parks, sewages and police force and army. I studied economy so I know the logic behind taxes. Since everyone benefits from these public goods everyone should contribute or else people will try to use them without paying for them. That is why there are taxes.
Also its not just about what the Qiran sepecifically said or not but what contradicts it. If the Quran geve freedom to believe or disbelieve and and the Quran itself says that God inflicts trials and tribulations to "see what we will do" than how can it then contradict itself by commanding a punishment for an act some may see as a disbedience or a sin. There is no sin greater than shirk or kufr and yet the Quran gave that right to humans to pursue that option if they wish.
Giving freedom does not mean an endorsement. Those of us who come from Islamic backgrounds have to make that adjustment from a dictatorial religious state we were raised in to and indoctrinted about to a free Quranic religious state that the Quran stipulates. And this usually takes time for people to adjust to.
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This is a bit of a strawman. The Quran states repeatedly that people should honor their oaths and respect the law of the land. If you're a citizen of a country that demands taxes be paid, that's a binding oath and law. You could try to argue your point with the tax-man, (that the Quran doesn't specifically say you have to) but I don't think it would work. ;D
Even the Amish have to pay taxes and they've got a stronger religious leg to stand on, seeing as how their beliefs are explicitly against it.Ok then. If you're a citizen of the country that demands you keep your ****s in your pants unless you're married to the opposite sex, that's a binding oath and law.
Problum?
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Taxes are based on the use of public goods like roads, bridges, emergency hospitals, public parks, sewages and police force and army. I studied economy so I know the logic behind taxes. Since everyone benefits from these public goods everyone should contribute or else people will try to use them without paying for them. That is why there are taxes.
Does Allah say anything about public goods in the Koran?
Also its not just about what the Qiran sepecifically said or not but what contradicts it. If the Quran geve freedom to believe or disbelieve and and the Quran itself says that God inflicts trials and tribulations to "see what we will do" than how can it then contradict itself by commanding a punishment for an act some may see as a disbedience or a sin.
Hitler didn't agree with the Koran's prohibition of murder. Degenerates are free to believe whatever they want - that doesn't mean they are free to do whatever they want.
There is no sin greater than shirk or kufr and yet the Quran gave that right to humans to pursue that option if they wish.
Keyword that.
Giving freedom does not mean an endorsement. Those of us who come from Islamic backgrounds have to make that adjustment from a dictatorial religious state we were raised in to and indoctrinted about to a free Quranic religious state that the Quran stipulates. And this usually takes time for people to adjust to.
There is no compulsion in religion. We are not forcing them to hold that the law is good and just. If that was the case, we wouldn't need to punish them.
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Does Allah say anything about public goods in the Koran?
Hitler didn't agree with the Koran's prohibition of murder. Degenerates are free to believe whatever they want - that doesn't mean they are free to do whatever they want.
Keyword that.
There is no compulsion in religion. We are not forcing them to hold that the law is good and just. If that was the case, we wouldn't need to punish them.
I am sorry but I don't get your answer and can't follow your logic. What do you mean does the Quran talk about pulic goods.? That has to do with justice since why should some spend on public goods while others don't even when they are enjoying those goods. Its about justice that the Quran does speak of.
I mean did the Quran tells us not to shit and pee on someone's face? Does that mean we can? Thats inflincting some damage and harm on somebody and that is when the Quran allows us to hold others accountable. Two guys deciding to have sex is not anybody's concern. I sense you are not able to tell the difference.
And what does Hitler killing has to do wth all this? The Quran did precribe a punishment for murder.
I have no clue to the last part of what you said also.
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Ok then. If you're a citizen of the country that demands you keep your ****s in your pants unless you're married to the opposite sex, that's a binding oath and law.
Problum?
As an individual, no, I would not have a problem with a law like that since I do that, anyway. As a citizen who respects my fellow citizens' right to live their lives free of tyranny, I would have a problem. This is another strawman.
The law that demands everyone pay taxes is fair in that benefits everyone, equally. We all have to use the roads and we all get to use the parks that taxes pay for. A law that intrudes on some people's right to privacy benefits no one but the minority who are obsessed with what others do with their privates in private. One is clearly unfair and has no place in a free society.
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I am sorry but I don't get your answer and can't follow your logic. What do you mean does the Quran talk about pulic goods.? That has to do with justice since why should some spend on public goods while others don't even when they are enjoying those goods. Its about justice that the Quran does speak of.
Justice is extremely subjective. Libertarians would argue that forcing someone to pay for a service is theft and thus unjust.
I mean did the Quran tells us not to shit and pee on someone's face? Does that mean we can?
Exactly my point. You're being a Koranic extremist.
Thats inflincting some damage and harm on somebody and that is when the Quran allows us to hold others accountable.
Unsubstantiated assertion.
And what does Hitler killing has to do wth all this? The Quran did precribe a punishment for murder.
Yes, but telling Hitler that he can't kill 1 million Jews would be compelling him to follow the rules of a religion he doesn't subscribe to.
I have no clue to the last part of what you said also.
Compulsion to believe Compulsion to obey.
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As an individual, no, I would not have a problem with a law like that since I do that, anyway. As a citizen who respects my fellow citizens' right to live their lives free of tyranny, I would have a problem. This is another strawman.
Nope. I'm just applying your ethical logic consistently.
The law that demands everyone pay taxes is fair in that benefits everyone, equally. We all have to use the roads and we all get to use the parks that taxes pay for. A law that intrudes on some people's right to privacy benefits no one but the minority who are obsessed with what others do with their privates in private. One is clearly unfair and has no place in a free society.
That's not what you said. You said that whatever the law of the land is, Muslims must obey. Now you've dug yourself into a ditch. laugh
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Vem pratar du med?
Noble Reign............There used to be this member called ParadoxUncreated. A norwegian dude with an IQ of a thousand but very angry with what it seemed the entire world.....I think he was banned from f-m.......or he quit, can't remember
Wonder if he is back as Noble Reign......the comments he is making sounds familiar.What is your stand on these core values in Islam
- Promiscuity-
SHAKIR 415 And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them.
When promiscuity takes a turn for the ugly (prostitution) then we are allowed to act. Strangely this only applies to women.....hmmm...Otherwise we should leave it to Allah to judge.
- Homophilia -
SHAKIR 37 He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.
Do you believe the story of Lot really happened? Do you believe it actually really did occur that God killed them all, for real?...............Is there a Santa Claus? Or is the story of Lot bringing a message, something that we are supposed to use in our connection with God? Or maybe the story brings a warning that it is very easy to forget God? See the message of the story, people! Don't take an allegorical story and make laws out of it!
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Intoxicants-
No need to post verses here......Intoxicants Allowed.........Getting intoxicated Not good if you are weak in your belief, leaving the door open for Satan to step into your mind. Also getting intoxicated Not good if you want to keep your connection (salat) with Allah -
Criminality-
That is the strangest so called "core value" I have heard......Not even going to comment. -
19-
Interesting- An attempt to mathematically prove that God exists.......Not many followers as far as I understood -
Hadith-
Stories collected about what prophet Muhammed did and didnt do......Good reading but it tells more about the Arabs than about prophet Muhammed and the Quran. Bottom line NOT from a divine source, therefore not applicalble as a tool to interpret the Quran.
- Promiscuity-
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Note that it was God who punished in the example you gave, not humans.
And in your last sentence you said "feel". That is very different from "as per Quran". Further, the law of equivalence is very clear in Quran. To do as you propose would violate it.
The two are not mutually exclusive. Feel free to read and explore the forum and make up your own mind.
Actually "feel" is not different than pr. Quran. Please check verse 30;30 and many verses that deal with immanence. You "law of equivalence" is ambigouous. Indeed God speaks of priveledging someone over others, even in the prayer!
And my mind is made up, first by simply adhering to Gods word, and later also understanding why homophilia is wrong, simply by looking at their culture. And indeed that their cities are destroyed is no mystery.
Peace Be With You.
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A high iq yes. Well if YOU have some high IQ, does it matter on a forum who says who they are? It really doesn?t does it. Could actually be the siberian shaman, that the christians believe is a saint and called "st claus", typing behind the keyboard. Who is an idolater, and would tell you that there is a foot above sinai, which he saw on LSD, and you would believe it, and go on a rebellious rampage, proud of your new god, after all, deviant people WANT idolatry. So a gift under the pinetree where psychedelic mushrooms grow, could be your new idol, for your own personal pride, and delusion.
Prostitution was also part of what "santa" established, in his idolaterous temples. Temple whores, that was how it was in the olden day. I am sure the deviant miss them ol times.
Ofcourse in Islam, and the society that was established by Abraham, to the praises of God, by all intelligent people, above the level of dogs, promiscuity is bad, and in The Quran, Satan follows his desire (lust).
That you think sodom and gomorra, are the allergorical verses, is simply ridicolous. God is in everyone, everyone in mental anguish prays to God, the suffering gays, and those they oppress, and provoke with their offensive behaviour. And their society was destroyed. And little is left of pharaoes society today, or other idolaters societies, such as communism.
It really shouldn?t be too hard. One really needs to just do what is right. Mad lustcultivators cannot go among monotheist children. You are not really grown-up if you cannot appreciate the death-penality on gays. Or herion-dealers for that sake, or similar things.
Also as I said elsewhere, idolaters fear the beast. They do not have god. And the bigger beast is deathpenality, and the best you can ever give them, to correct their behaviour, and ultimately live a decent life according to the praises of God, or suffer with gay/drugs etc, and be dead.
I have visited the forum many times, and indeed many of the same people post, and they do react to sense as usual. Proud.
And indeed I see the free-minds sect, as it is becoming, has a view on things, that is not quranic. Still claiming alcohol "is not forbidden", and excusing homophilia etc. So free-minds, seem to indeed be like a scholar, a viewpoint, that identifies certain people, and the forum does indeed ban others. No free-minds, and correct minds are not allowed. Gay and drugged minds, perhaps? And closed minds, to Islam.Peace Be With You.
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A high iq yes.
You forgot to comment on
very angry with what it seemed the entire world
The reason why I was wondering if it is you, Paradox, is because it would make me happy if it was. To be honest with you I thought you were completely nuts, but then I realized you are a person who has been treated unfair, that you are highly intelligent but could not find peace. Everywhere you looked you found signs of decadence and polytheism. Something that is quite easy to find in your society (as well as mine) because of our history.......Anyways I felt very sad when you left f-m in anger. . Not because I have any delusion that I would be able to help you, but I pray that one day you will stop hating the world so much. Maybe there is a very small chance that the people here on f-m could help you to find acceptance and forgivness towards those who do not think like you. I didnt say you have to agree, just accept one of the core values of islam, namely peace and respect to others and their ways, eventhough they completely disagree with you.
Your dislike seems to have expanded from your countrymen and their lewdness to also include sexual orientation. I see the dislike and disgust from you in statements like
the suffering gays, and those they oppress, and provoke with their offensive behaviour
and it blinds you. You have hijacked islam so you can find divine proof that your disgust of today's society is righteous.
If you are not Paradox Uncreated, well sorry for mistaken you for another.
Of course you do not agree with anything I have written, well maybe that you are highly intelligent...............That is ok with me, don't need to agree. I just wish you luck and I pray peace will be with You.
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I have to say I agree with your principles Noble, but I do wonder if the death penalty is really the appropriate punishment. I mean, I might support "disappearing" some particularly obnoxious gay activists to "send a message", so to speak (as a state policy of course, I am not in anyway endorsing individual violent acts), but why do you think that they should all be killed?
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I have to say I agree with your principles Noble, but I do wonder if the death penalty is really the appropriate punishment. I mean, I might support "disappearing" some particularly obnoxious gay activists to "send a message", so to speak (as a state policy of course, I am not in anyway endorsing individual violent acts), but why do you think that they should all be killed?
To send a messsage? Thats deterence argument. Thats not a Quranic concept but a Sunni one. They believe the punishment can exceed the crime to act as a deterence. The Quran only recognizes proportional justice. An eye for an eye and not an eye for an eye lash.
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To send a messsage? Thats deterence argument. Thats not a Quranic concept but a Sunni one. They believe the punishment can exceed the crime to act as a deterence. The Quran only recognizes proportional justice. An eye for an eye and not an eye for an eye lash.
Gonna need a source for that.
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Gonna need a source for that.
I think the passage 540-50 establishes the principle of proportionality rather clearly, with 545 being translatable thus
And We have decreed for them in it that a life for a life, and an eye for an eye, and a nose for a nose, and an ear for an ear, and a tooth for a tooth, and wounds to be similar; and whoever remits anything of it, then it will cancel sins for him. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.
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I think the passage 540-50 establishes the principle of proportionality rather clearly, with 545 being translatable thus
Also
O ye who believe, equivalence is the law decreed for ye when dealing with murder - the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the female for the female. If one is pardoned by the victim's kin, an appreciative response is in order, and an equitable compensation shall be paid. This is an alleviation from thine Lord and mercy. Anyone who transgresses beyond this incurs a painful retribution.
the sacred month is for the sacred month, and for violations is legal retribution. So whoever has assaulted you, then assault him in the same way that he has assaulted you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who fear Him. 2.194
And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers
Proportional justice where apples for apples, oranges for oranges and grapes for grapes. Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth and a soul for a soul. Proportional justice and not deterence justice to send a message or disproportionate justice where apples for oranges, slaves for the free or a tooth for a jaw.