David Attenborough and God.
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If a god is just, the punishment for sin is hell. If this god is merciful as defined above the punishment should not be hell. But hell exists. And the god is called merciful. A logical contradiction.
Dear StopS,
It seems you are not aware the Quranic view. It is true, mercy is an emotional reaction which can obviously find no place in the working of law and justice. Still, there is a place for "forgiveness" and "mercy" as will be seen from the following example. You put your finger in fire and it gets burnt. And you must suffer the consequence? the pain and agony which is its inevitable result. There is no question of anybody forgiving you or taking mercy on you. But the same God Who has made the law that fire burns and pain is its inevitable result, has made another law. It is that a certain medicine has the property of giving relief to the pain and effacing the devastating result of burning. A recourse to this law of God would do away with the painful result of your former action. The provision of this second law is "mercy" from God, and obedience of this law results in "forgiveness" of our wrong doing. That is Allah?s clemency (rahma). This fact can be useful only to those who know and utilize it. This, in the Quranic sense, is tauba (repentance), i.e., efforts to rectify a mistake. This point is aptly illustrated in the figurative story of Man?s creation. Both Man and the Devil erred but whereas Man repented and was willing to rectify his error, the Devil refused to confess, standing defiant.
The Quran elaborates it in Sura AzZumr ?Say (O My Messenger) to those who have done wrong to themselves, ?Don?t lose hope of Allah?s clemency. Verily, He has created means of recovering all falterings. He certainly is the Protector and Clement!? Come back to your Preserver and submit to Him before your error bears result, after which no one will be able to come to your aid? --- (39/53-55). Elsewhere, it is clarified thus ?When they, who are convinced of Our laws, come to you (My Messenger), say to them ?Peace be upon you as your Preserver has bound upon Himself to be clement, i.e., anyone of you who unknowingly falters, then repents and rectifies it, shall find Allah protecting and clement?? --- (654).
This is not to be taken as a license to commit wrongs. It says ?This is how your Preserver shall be clement to you. But if you return (to your ways), Our system ( of punishment) shall return to you. 178
Every action of man is recorded and the consequences inevitably follow. Good, however, prevails over bad. The consequences of a wrong action can be nullified by a right act. "Good deeds", says the Quran, "annul bad deed" (11 114). The fate of the individual or of the nation, therefore, depends on which kind of actions predominate; "As for him whose scales are heavy (with good works) he will live a pleasant life" (101 6-11)
"And if ye avoid the great things which ye are forbidden, We will remit from your lapses and make you enter a noble gate" (432) (since constructive results of ones noble deeds outweigh the destructive consequences of your actions).
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In another thread Ahmad Bilal raises the same issues. I answered him with this
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You have failed to provide a definition of "omnibenevolence" or "mercy" etc, which would result in any "problem of evil".
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The attribute of mercy has relevance only to an object; it presupposes creation and has no relevance to God ad intra. Thus, whatever your definition of "mercy etc" may be, it cannot result in God contradicting himself ontologically.
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Categories such as mercy or justice have no relevance to God, qua creator. Therefore your objection falls away, as God, qua creator, "...does whatever he wills with the armies of heaven and earth, and none can stay his hand and all the inhabitants of the earth are esteemed as nothing." It would be like going up to an artist and saying your work is "unmerciful" or "unjust", such categories are irrelevant
Interesting.
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Dear StopS,
It seems you are not aware the Quranic view.
If you make a claim like this, why don't you show where or why you make this?
I am comparing just/merciful, what humans say, in the sentence you outline.Your example of "You put your finger in fire and it gets burnt" does not really apply here. We are talking about human beings who do not do anything or ask for anything and who, through no action of their own, experience extreme suffering.
Your quotes "He has created means of recovering all falterings" and "anyone of you who unknowingly falters, then repents and rectifies it, shall find Allah protecting and clement" insinuates that there is nothing that will not be forgiven. Is this really true? Why would I need to repent if a judge is the "most merciful"? Is there a list of what requires repentance and what will be handled as merciful?
"And if ye avoid the great things which ye are forbidden" would not require any mercy, would it?
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Out of courtesy, thank you all for your contributions (even 'StopS'!).
I have come across some interesting viewpoints, many of which I share myself. However, this seems to have become a discussion about much broader issues than which I anticipated. To reiterate-and for clarification- my query was "Why did God create a worm, whose sole purpose of existence seems to be to blind (five year old African boys)"?
Thank you.
God bless you all. May God increase our understanding and make us better people (AMEN!)
Salaam.
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To reiterate-and for clarification- my query was "Why did God create a worm, whose sole purpose of existence seems to be to blind (five year old African boys)"?
Thank you.
In the first place, medical scientists need to investigate and find reasons why such a worm is created (certainly there will be a cause and effect - a scientific reason why such a worm was created and a human reason why it came in the eye of the boy), but to say that "the sole purpose of existence seems to to be to bind five year old african boy" is a misleading statement. God is never unfair to any people (4146).
God does not whimsically cause any problem for anyone. God has set standards and measures for everything. Just to state an example, there is one place in south india, where the plantation corporation aerially sprayed endosulfan pesticide (banned in several countries) in an area of nearly 5000 acres and today the villagers who live close to the plantation are paying the price, average one in a family is born with physical deformities, and the area is dotted with tragedy struck families battling physical deformities, cancers and disorders of the central nervous system. Also the number of women getting pregnant in these villages is so low compared to national average. Here who is responsible for the calamity? Is it Man or God? Allah says, ?There is no calamity but brought upon you by your own hands? (4230). In Chapter Aal-Imran, it states that when people are struck by an affliction, they wonder where it came from ( ا - ? Tell them ?it is of your own doing? (3164)
"Glorify the name of thy Guardian-Lord Most High Who hath created, and further, given order and proportion; Who hath ordained laws."(871-3)
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Why would I need to repent if a judge is the "most merciful"?
Admitting one's fault and make amends is a basic pre-condition for forgiveness and mercy. There is possible even without repentance one may be forgiven for any specific sins committed (Allah knows) provided "As for him whose scales are heavy (with good works) he will live a pleasant life" (101 6-11); "whosoever submits himself completely to God and he is the doer of good, shall have his reward from his Lord. No fear shall come on them nor shall they grieve." 2112
Some Talibani criminals shot and seriously injured a girl who wants to learn and openly declared they will shoot her again at the next opportunity. Do you expect any "most merciful" to forgive them?
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Admitting one's fault and make amends is a basic pre-condition for forgiveness and mercy.
In the Koran no.
In the "real world" yes.You can find examples, where the Egyptian Pharaoh was rejected his last minute conversion, but in general, it says in the Koran "the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful" and not "the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful - if you apologise". Also remember that according to the Koran there is omniscience, which would make all facts known without any formal apology.
There is possible even without repentance one may be forgiven for any specific sins committed (Allah knows) provided "As for him whose scales are heavy (with good works) he will live a pleasant life" (101 6-11); "whosoever submits himself completely to God and he is the doer of good, shall have his reward from his Lord. No fear shall come on them nor shall they grieve." 2112
Some Talibani criminals shot and seriously injured a girl who wants to learn and openly declared they will shoot her again at the next opportunity. Do you expect any "most merciful" to forgive them?
You see THAT is the most difficult question to ask - and to answer. The Taliban argue that Malala is going against the express wishes of the Koran. They argue that the Koran is incomplete and requires explanations from humans. That's how they build their particular view. They think that repenting worldly sins will provide absolution because that's what the Koran says.
They tried to kill me and then shot the receptionist of the hotel - a Muslim. Killing another Muslim is a grave sin if not in accordance with the requirements in the Koran. They have their own reasoning. They think in a war for their version of a god everything is allowed - because they are at war, so they think they are entitled to mercy.
I agree that this is not what this belief should be about.
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Admitting one's fault and make amends is a basic pre-condition for forgiveness and mercy
In the Koran no.
In the "real world" yes.
.I can see that StopS lives in the "real world" and seems to have received ?a good? education from his parents, he is so aware of what goes on around, so maybe its time he took a break from forums and went on a fact finding tour as to what it was like once upon a time in Africa.
& If you don?t want to be exposed to the little African boy's eye-eating worms, then just Google for a remedy. -
To reiterate-and for clarification- my query was "Why did God create a worm, whose sole purpose of existence seems to be to blind (five year old African boys)"?
Thank you.
God bless you all. May God increase our understanding and make us better people (AMEN!)
Salaam.
salaam es
ALLAAH created balance, and the whole universe depends on balance. When it is disturbed there are dire consequences, so the question should be; why is there such an imbalance in Africa?
ALLAAH taught Aadam the names of all things and, with that knowledge, the ?bani aadam? were supposed to live as one family, so why is one side of the world suffering, while the other side revels in luxury?
Again, the question should be; what is the root cause of misery in Africa?
By preventing much of
Africa from developing its
agricultural resources, the
CAP hurts the continent?s
ability to attract the financial,
technological, and
human capital to drive economic
and social progress
http//www.insideronline.org/archives/2003/aug03/europe_sows.pdfIn our caf? talk, he told me how some other people or countries become rich while others remain poor?. http//www.myafricanviews.com/the-west-riding-on-africas-misery/
http//blackagendareport.com/content/far-humanitarian-savior-us-causes-vast-misery-africa
peace
