Day & Night Phenomenon described in the quran
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Peace
I have maintained that it is a waste of time as well as energy to research that Quran is a Scientific Miracle at least from the Astrnomical Point of View. The verses of Quran are beautifully arranged rhetoric, well written (revealed) classical literature,
It's pure illusion to extract modern science out of the Quranic Verses and say that it is Comnpatible with Science. IT IS NOT AN ENCYCLOPEDIA...
Eg.
People Claim that Quran says that Universe is Expanding
Well exactly speaking. Quran says We expand it STEADILY, but recent researches show that Universe is expanding at an ACCELERATING RATE.....I am not a Scholar of Quran.....other wise the examples could be found in plenty....
I maintain these views on Astronomical Issues. May be the claims made in Biology, or Evolution be true. But they could be false as well. It does not effect the Nature of Quran....bcoz it is NOT A WIKIPEDIA...
Peace
IrfanSalam,
Did i mention scientific miracles ?
God described the Day and night in beautiful way and the relation between day,night ,sun & moon.
So There is no scientific miracles but those are just signs from God for the wise to believe.
We shall show them Our signs in the horizons and in themselves, till it is clear to them that it is the truth. Suffices it not as to thy Lord, that He is witness over everything? (4153)
Peace
FearGod -
Peace, Irfan.
I have maintained that it is a waste of time as well as energy to research that Quran is a Scientific Miracle at least from the Astrnomical Point of View. The verses of Quran are beautifully arranged rhetoric, well written (revealed) classical literature,
It's pure illusion to extract modern science out of the Quranic Verses and say that it is Comnpatible with Science. IT IS NOT AN ENCYCLOPEDIA...
Eg.
People Claim that Quran says that Universe is Expanding
Well exactly speaking. Quran says We expand it STEADILY, but recent researches show that Universe is expanding at an ACCELERATING RATE.....I am not a Scholar of Quran.....other wise the examples could be found in plenty....
I maintain these views on Astronomical Issues. May be the claims made in Biology, or Evolution be true. But they could be false as well. It does not effect the Nature of Quran....bcoz it is NOT A WIKIPEDIA...
I completely agree with this position. Personally, I enjoy reading the Qur'aan, as it's a beautiful literary work, composed of astounding rhetoric. However, to attempt to correlate it with modern science is foolish at best. It's not a scientific textbook, nor was it ever intended to be. It was written from the perspective of the 7th century Arabs, and it's pointless for us to attempt to reconcile it with modern discoveries of the 21st century, as if every imaginable detail of scientific inquiry and exploration are contained within the Qur'aan - although they're coincidentally hidden beneath parables, contextual wording, mathematical miracles, etc...
Thanks for your post.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace, Irfan.
I completely agree with this position. Personally, I enjoy reading the Qur'aan, as it's a beautiful literary work, composed of astounding rhetoric. However, to attempt to correlate it with modern science is foolish at best. It's not a scientific textbook, nor was it ever intended to be. It was written from the perspective of the 7th century Arabs, and it's pointless for us to attempt to reconcile it with modern discoveries of the 21st century, as if every imaginable detail of scientific inquiry and exploration are contained within the Qur'aan - although they're coincidentally hidden beneath parables, contextual wording, mathematical miracles, etc...
Thanks for your post.
Peace,
Ahmad
a beautiful literary work ???,why not saying somehow similar to enjoying reading
the literary work of Shakespeare.Let me teach you to realize the beauty of such literary work of the quran when combined with knowledge and not with ignorance assuming that you know arabic language.
(2444)
First Allah didn't say but he says which means change positions upside down,that is one beauty which shows us perfection in describing day and night phenomenon.
Also Allah didn't say which in english change the night to day like a layman may say,but he said which in english means that he change both at one time with opposite positions.
That is the beauty of literature in Quran combined with the creator knowledge of his universe.
if you need more lessons,then pls don't be ashame,i'll be more than happy to teach you.
By the way i have challenged many atheists to bring a better verse than this one from their own minds
in other forums and they didn't bring any one sentence and it ended with their anger with some insults and
then deleting the thread by mods.Praise to god that we have such forum and i also offer the verse for every one here to try to challenge it by bringing a better description of day and night phenomenon and as short in words to give such perfect meaning.
"One word is enough for the wise"
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Peace FearGod
Well Quran is a literary good work is an ASPECT of Quran......this does NOT MEAN that any book having good literally qualities is automatically a GUIDANCE.....
Well you can read Shakespeare or Shaw for you pleasure
But Quran is what we should read for a Moral Guidance....
And I should not have posted my initial comments here as this is not that sort of SCIENTIFIC MIRACLE PROPAGATION......to which I am allergic
Well fearGod.....it is very nice of you to see for such things in the book.
Don't be Offended by any Comments of Ours.... It may turn Out that we were redundant in debating ourselves..
Peace and Love
Irfan -
Peace FearGod
Well Quran is a literary good work is an ASPECT of Quran......this does NOT MEAN that any book having good literally qualities is automatically a GUIDANCE.....
Well you can read Shakespeare or Shaw for you pleasure
But Quran is what we should read for a Moral Guidance....
And I should not have posted my initial comments here as this is not that sort of SCIENTIFIC MIRACLE PROPAGATION......to which I am allergic
Well fearGod.....it is very nice of you to see for such things in the book.
Don't be Offended by any Comments of Ours.... It may turn Out that we were redundant in debating ourselves..
Peace and Love
IrfanSalam Harun,
Thank you Brother. )
Peace
FearGod -
It was written FROM the perspective of the 7th century Arabs, and it's pointless for us to attempt to reconcile it with modern discoveries of the 21st century, as if every imaginable detail of scientific inquiry and exploration are contained within the Qur'aan - although they're coincidentally hidden beneath parables, contextual wording, mathematical miracles, etc...
Thanks for your post.
Peace.
Ahmad
Peace Ahmad I just have an issue with you choosing the word FROM, as it seems to me, the Qur'aan is written BY ALLAH (of course), and FOR the 7th C. Arabs.
AS WELL AS FOR the peoples of latter days whose scientific knowledge has hugely increased, tho science never does, and never will comprehend all of Allah's Wisdom. That is perhaps what you are referring to in your last sentence. Do i have that right?
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Peace, Alleycats.
I just have an issue with you choosing the word FROM, as it seems to me, the Qur'aan is written BY ALLAH (of course), and FOR the 7th C. Arabs.
AS WELL AS FOR the peoples of latter days whose scientific knowledge has hugely increased, tho science never does, and never will comprehend all of Allah's Wisdom. That is perhaps what you are referring to in your last sentence. Do i have that right? )
Of course, I'm sure that's the commonly accepted viewpoint concerning this issue. However, I didn't want to refer to it this way, as it's a subjective position not everyone agrees that the Qur'aan was written by ALLAH (God). My post was meant with that idea in mind... Also, with regard to people comprehending the wisdom of ALLAH, we have to keep in mind that not everyone believes in the concept of deity and divinity. Therefore, to some people, they have already exceeded the wisdom of ALLAH - at least as far as the Qur'aan is concerned. I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with this position, but it certainly exists...
In addition, we can reasonably conclude that the Qur'aan was written FROM the perspective of the 7th century Arabs due to it being written (or, at least compiled) by 7th century Arabs. It was written in their language, citing features and examples prevalent in their culture, and composed of passages that they'd understand. We can't reasonably conclude that it was written for all of humanity, as (obviously) all of humanity can't read, write or understand Arabic language and culture. So, we can objectively state that it was most likely written FOR them, if not BY them.
Do you disagree?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace, Alleycats.
Of course, I'm sure that's the commonly accepted viewpoint concerning this issue. However, I didn't want to refer to it this way, as it's a subjective position not everyone agrees that the Qur'aan was written by ALLAH (God). My post was meant with that idea in mind... Also, with regard to people comprehending the wisdom of ALLAH, we have to keep in mind that not everyone believes in the concept of deity and divinity. Therefore, to some people, they have already exceeded the wisdom of ALLAH - at least as far as the Qur'aan is concerned. I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with this position, but it certainly exists...
In addition, we can reasonably conclude that the Qur'aan was written FROM the perspective of the 7th century Arabs due to it being written (or, at least compiled) by 7th century Arabs. It was written in their language, citing features and examples prevalent in their culture, and composed of passages that they'd understand. We can't reasonably conclude that it was written for all of humanity, as (obviously) all of humanity can't read, write or understand Arabic language and culture. So, we can objectively state that it was most likely written FOR them, if not BY them.
Do you disagree?
Peace,
Ahmad
You are speaking out of ignorance.
This , behold, is no less than a reminder to all the worlds ? (3887)
And We have sent thee as grace towards all the worlds. (21107)
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Peace, FearGod.
You are speaking out of ignorance.
This , behold, is no less than a reminder to all the worlds ? (3887)
And We have sent thee as grace towards all the worlds. (21107)
How am I speaking out of ignorance, and how do the Koranic passages you posted authenticate your position? Are you asserting that everyone believes in ALLAH, the authenticity of the Koran, the 'revelation' of the prophet Mohammed, etc.? Or, are YOU really the one speaking out of ignorance?
Peace,
Ahmad
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You are speaking out of ignorance.
This , behold, is no less than a reminder to all the worlds ? (3887)
And We have sent thee as grace towards all the worlds. (21107)
Please @FearGod please Fear ALLAH and don't judge too quickly, or so harshly. It is TOO easy a mistake. We ALL make them. Ahmad B. has been considering these threads for quite awhile, and even though i don't quite get where he is coming from, it may be a POV that needs pondering first. Answers from mature members can contain answers that are not exactly what we see at first. Now, i am not saying i will agree with him. Probably not...??
However, using words like "speaking out of ignorance" seems to lead to "mushrik", and (o heck, i can't remember, o yes, "hypocrite", and then we end up back to "Shaytain and His Allies"--a most unfortunate decline, which of course, ends up exposing the original posters' (gasp!) fallablilties. All the knowledge in the world doesn't trump true Fear of God. Remember, truth exposes falsehood, so let ALLAH do the job of deciding who is what. You have a brain. Ponder, perhaps disagree, post the Qur'anic citations you have, what is inspired to you--and there, you have taken a Straight Path inshaa' ALLAH
P.S. I admire anyone when they take the time to post their citations. (I haven't got to that point yet. Sorry)
Peace be with you
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Dear @FearGod i feel i owe you an apology, because i fear ALLAH too, and i regret that "shot" i took about the un-named poster i mentioned, with whom i know you are familiar.
ALLAH says "no back-biting" and i slipped and did that. Please forgive me. I should have prayed B4 that post, but i did after, so now here i am, saying i am sorry.
Please do consider what i am asking you, about calling names. See? it's a slippery slope, and doesn't bring out the best usually.
Salaam, Alleycats
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Peace, Alleycats.
Of course, I'm sure that's the commonly accepted viewpoint concerning this issue. However, I didn't want to refer to it this way, as it's a subjective position not everyone agrees that the Qur'aan was written by ALLAH (God). My post was meant with that idea in mind... Also, with regard to people comprehending the wisdom of ALLAH, we have to keep in mind that not everyone believes in the concept of deity and divinity. Therefore, to some people, they have already exceeded the wisdom of ALLAH - at least as far as the Qur'aan is concerned. I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with this position, but it certainly exists...
In addition, we can reasonably conclude that the Qur'aan was written FROM the perspective of the 7th century Arabs due to it being written (or, at least compiled) by 7th century Arabs. It was written in their language, citing features and examples prevalent in their culture, and composed of passages that they'd understand. We can't reasonably conclude that it was written for all of humanity, as (obviously) all of humanity can't read, write or understand Arabic language and culture. So, we can objectively state that it was most likely written FOR them, if not BY them.
Do you disagree?
Peace,
Ahmad
Peace to you Ahmad
I found this quote in the Qur'aan
This Qur'an could never have been devised by any besides Allah. Rather it is confirmation of what came before it and an elucidation of the Book which contains no doubt from the Lord of all the worlds. Do they say, "He has invented it"? Say "Then produce a sura like it and call on anyone you can besides Allah if you are telling the truth." (Qur'an, 1037-3
Do you really disagree??
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a beautiful literary work ???,why not saying somehow similar to enjoying reading the literary work of Shakespeare.
Let me teach you to realize the beauty of such literary work of the quran when combined with knowledge and not with ignorance assuming that you know arabic language.
I see several misconceptions here.
- the Koran describes what people saw.
- the description is accurate to a 7th century nomad or farmer, but it is not scientifically accurate or precise.
- just because something is nice or beautiful does not make it true.
By the way i have challenged many atheists to bring a better verse than this one from their own minds in other forums and they didn't bring any one sentence and it ended with their anger with some insults and then deleting the thread by mods.
I have been in situations which you describe and it always gets me angry. Humans have looked at the challenge of "bring a surah like it" and have found too many flaws in it to take it seriously. Maybe I should start a separate thread on this to stop people from embarrassing themselves with this.
What is the challenge according to the Koran? What needs to be presented?
1788 Koran
223 a single chapter (surah)
1037-38 a single chapter (surah)
1113 10 chapters (surahs)
5233-34 anythingSo which one do you pick? What exactly is the challenge? How many lines, chapters or anything?
What is the definition of "like it"? What is "like" a James Bond novel or the Ramavataram?
A book, a painting, a play, a movie, an opera, a piece of music is art and thus always unique.
What is considered "like it" and who will be the judges? If I submit a chapter to you, who will judge it? You? And who else?
Over the centuries, many Arabs have either criticised this challenge or have met it - and were rejected.Why were they rejected? because the other problem with the challenge is that it is not sincere.
"But if ye cannot - and of a surety ye cannot - then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith" 2.24So the challenge is a dummy. Are you still surprised that people get irritated when confronted with this? And this is not by any means the complete picture of all the problems with this. Please don't use it.
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I see several misconceptions here.
- the Koran describes what people saw.
- the description is accurate to a 7th century nomad or farmer, but it is not scientifically accurate or precise.
- just because something is nice or beautiful does not make it true.
Just one verse from the quran is enough to refute your 3 false statements
Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?..
They didn't see the universe as one entity before the separation and it wasn't known in the 7th century and it is perfect and true statement.
I have been in situations which you describe and it always gets me angry. Humans have looked at the challenge of "bring a surah like it" and have found too many flaws in it to take it seriously. Maybe I should start a separate thread on this to stop people from embarrassing themselves with this.
What is the challenge according to the Koran? What needs to be presented?
1788 Koran
223 a single chapter (surah)
1037-38 a single chapter (surah)
1113 10 chapters (surahs)
5233-34 anythingSo which one do you pick? What exactly is the challenge? How many lines, chapters or anything?
What is the definition of "like it"? What is "like" a James Bond novel or the Ramavataram?
A book, a painting, a play, a movie, an opera, a piece of music is art and thus always unique.
What is considered "like it" and who will be the judges? If I submit a chapter to you, who will judge it? You? And who else?
Over the centuries, many Arabs have either criticised this challenge or have met it - and were rejected.Why were they rejected? because the other problem with the challenge is that it is not sincere.
"But if ye cannot - and of a surety ye cannot - then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith" 2.24So the challenge is a dummy. Are you still surprised that people get irritated when confronted with this? And this is not by any means the complete picture of all the problems with this. Please don't use it.
Regarding verse 224,then yes god is warning us to be aware that he is the truth and if we don't believe then he challenged us to try to have a better verses than his and then if we failed then we should be aware and fear punishment which as truth as his challenge.
Let me bring to you the first verse which i had explained and then bring from your own language a better verse describing the day night phenomenon and should be as short as the one in the verse and if you think it was wrong then bring to us the right description in a beautiful wise way,what i meant by short is (A word to the wise is sufficient)
So lets start the challenge and in your own language
Allah causeth the (revolution, flipping) of the day and the night. Lo! herein is indeed a lesson for those who see. (2444)
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Peace, Alleycats.
I found this quote in the Qur'aan
This Qur'an could never have been devised by any besides Allah. Rather it is confirmation of what came before it and an elucidation of the Book which contains no doubt from the Lord of all the worlds. Do they say, "He has invented it"? Say "Then produce a sura like it and call on anyone you can besides Allah if you are telling the truth." (Qur'an, 1037-3
Do you really disagree??
The idea of me disagreeing with the statement isn't a factor. The quran is the book that makes the assertion. My question is, Is there any way for you to prove that the quran was written (or 'devised' by Allah?
Sure, it may confirm some of the ideals that predated it, such as the Torah and Injiyl (which I'm not even sure what the "Injiyl" is); but that doesn't particularly prove anything. That passage was primarily written for the Jews, and possibly the Christians in the region as well. The evidence for this is in the wording. For example, if I'm a Buddhist or a Taoist, then the idea of the quran 'confirming' (or restating) the Torah means absolutely nothing, since the Torah could potentially be wrong too!
Let's say I wrote this down in a book
"This book could never have been devised by any besides Zeus. Rather it is confirmation of the Iliad that came before it and an elucidation of the Odyssey which contains no doubt from the lords of all the worlds. Do they say, 'Hermes has invented it'? Say 'Then produce a chapter like it and call on anyone you can besides Zeus if you are telling the truth.'"
Would you accept the book as being authentic, solely based on its own declaration of being 'divinely inspired'? Or would you be skeptical?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace, FearGod.
Just one verse from the quran is enough to refute your 3 false statements
Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?..
They didn't see the universe as one entity before the separation and it wasn't known in the 7th century and it is perfect and true statement.
Actually, the Quran isn't very specific on this issue either, which is why there's a contradicting account in the same book!
"Then He (Allah) directed Himself to the heaven and it is 'dukhan'/smoke, so He said to it and to the earth, 'Come both, willingly or unwillingly.' They both said, 'We come willingly.'" (Q. 4111)
According to this passage, which is also in the Quran, the Universe didn't start off as one entity that Allah pulled apart - it started off as two separate entities that Allah joined together... And I won't even touch on the Quran's ridiculous assertion that the Universe was "smoke" prior to its modern development. That factor is clear enough.
So lets start the challenge and in your own language
Allah causeth the (revolution, flipping) of the day and the night. Lo! herein is indeed a lesson for those who see. (2444)
I asked you before, in this same thread, how the night and day 'flip' and 'revolve' around the Earth, and you never answered my question. Asking someone else about this same ridiculous concept doesn't fix the issue either. If you can, I'd still like for you to answer my question. In reading this passage from the Quran, is it saying that the Earth is flipping (or rotating)? Or is it saying that the night and day are flipping? This question makes all the difference when it comes to determining the book's degree of accuracy or nonsense.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace, FearGod.
Actually, the Quran isn't very specific on this issue either, which is why there's a contradicting account in the same book!
"Then He (Allah) directed Himself to the heaven and it is 'dukhan'/smoke, so He said to it and to the earth, 'Come both, willingly or unwillingly.' They both said, 'We come willingly.'" (Q. 4111)
According to this passage, which is also in the Quran, the Universe didn't start off as one entity that Allah pulled apart - it started off as two separate entities that Allah joined together... And I won't even touch on the Quran's ridiculous assertion that the Universe was "smoke" prior to its modern development. That factor is clear enough.
Where is the contradiction ?
One entity and smoke both are discussed in modern cosmology as the origin of our universe
http//i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/25/article-0-15334C62000005DC-14_964x710.jpg
I asked you before, in this same thread, how the night and day 'flip' and 'revolve' around the Earth, and you never answered my question. Asking someone else about this same ridiculous concept doesn't fix the issue either. If you can, I'd still like for you to answer my question. In reading this passage from the Quran, is it saying that the Earth is flipping (or rotating)? Or is it saying that the night and day are flipping? This question makes all the difference when it comes to determining the book's degree of accuracy or nonsense.
Peace,
Ahmad
i have explained it to you but you don't want to understand,did you see the night (darkness) moving,it is OK if we want to believe the day (sun) to be moving but the darkness (night) moves.
the verses is describing the day night phenomenon and not the planets movements.
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Peace, FearGod.
One entity and smoke both are discussed in modern cosmology as the origin of our universe
Ummmm, are you being serious?! There was no "smoke" at the beginning of the Universe! Who told you this nonsense? Have you ever looked through a science (particularly astronomy or cosmology) book? If you're really trying to propose that the Universe actually came from "smoke", or that smoke was anywhere around during the formation of the Universe, then there's no point in us having this discussion, since you clearly don't know what you're talking about...
the verses is describing the day night phenomenon and not the planets movements.
Again, the problem is, THIS IS YOUR INTERPRETATION! The Quran clearly states that the day and night rotate, not that the planets rotate. You can make whatever assumptions you'd like, based on modern scientific research. However, the book says what it says. Obviously, according to you, whoever wrote the Quran wasn't clear enough about what he meant.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace, FearGod.
Ummmm, are you being serious?! There was no "smoke" at the beginning of the Universe! Who told you this nonsense? Have you ever looked through a science (particularly astronomy or cosmology) book? If you're really trying to propose that the Universe actually came from "smoke", or that smoke was anywhere around during the formation of the Universe, then there's no point in us having this discussion, since you clearly don't know what you're talking about...
i don't believe that we're in the 21th century and there is still some one ignorants about simple informations in cosmology
Watch this video it may help you to understand that there is still smoke and there is still new stars born from it.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=80eMTnnLjhs
Again, the problem is, THIS IS YOUR INTERPRETATION! The Quran clearly states that the day and night rotate, not that the planets rotate. You can make whatever assumptions you'd like, based on modern scientific research. However, the book says what it says. Obviously, according to you, whoever wrote the Quran wasn't clear enough about what he meant.
Peace,
Ahmad
The problem is one of 2,either you have a difficulty to understand or you don't want to understand.