Muslim Anarchist here hoping to be part of the family, Inshallah
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Assalumu wa Alakheim,
Hello everyone it is super awesome to join this forum, I am so happy it has been created. Thank you, whoever helped start this place.
So yeah like the title says I am a Muslim and I am also an Anarchist. Some may find this intriguing, or impossible or even hypocritical, but I assure you I do not see it that way at all.
Islam is about submission to God and God alone, not to any other power or entity. Anarchy comes from the Greek word anarchia and is describing a human political situtaion where there is an absolute absence of political power.
To me this seems like they are talking about the same thing. A situation where God is the only one with the power, and the only one submitted to.
In effect, we should not be submitting ourselves to governmental, corporate, or military powers, no matter how evil they are or how much one is threatened, our only task is to submit to the Creator of all.
Well hopefully we will get to know each other more as time progresses, but at least that is a little intro about me.
I hope this message finds you well, happy, and healthy.
Salaam,
Clash
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welcome
Salaam,
Hope you find what you need on this forum. It can be daunting at times because there are so many opinions and interpretations can play with your mind. I advise for studies it's best to let Allah guide you where understanding f Quran is concerned with the correct amount of strive from you of course.
It surprising you think this way since I clearly remember reading in the Quran that part of being righteous/pious we should adhere n uphold laws of the land we are in so long as they are not contradicting gods laws. So paying taxes abiding by laws etc is a requirement from us.
I cannot locate the ayat so if anyone has this to hand please post or else I will find and post for you to peruse.
Welcome again.
peace
A
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Salam and welcome also from me. Nice intro. I sometimes think we are the anarchists among the muslims ;D
Unfortunately, most anarchists seem to think atheism is an indisensable part of their ideology.Affy, maybe that's hadith? I know ot is often quoted but can't remember having read it in the Quran. Of course we should not just do whatever comes to our mind, but there is a broad scope of interpretation concerning what is against God's law.
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In effect, we should not be submitting ourselves to governmental, corporate, or military powers, no matter how evil they are or how much one is threatened, our only task is to submit to the Creator of all.
Submitting to God's will, doesn't mean that you MUST not obey governmental rules and regulation OR you must resist and defy the current political power holder.
Submitting to God's will is peacefully accept on what's happening to you in the past, present and future.
With such mentality inside, you'll feel calm and not anger, controlled behavior (sabr) and not emotional behavior, happy and not sad, positive about your future and not negative, humble and not arrogant, empathy and not egoistic.
Salam / Peace
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Walaikum Asalam,
Welcome to the forum
Maybe you could parallel your beliefs with anarchy, you said
To me this seems like they are talking about the same thing. A situation where God is the only one with the power, and the only one submitted to.
There's just one problem, not everyone in the world agrees that "God is the only one with power or the only one submitted to".
So potentially all sorts of anarchist spin their interpretations.. If they do not submit to God they might submit to evil or be skewed to all sorts of ideologies or practices, which isn't necessarily going to go in your favour.
just some thought
peace
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Assalamua alaykum,
It's good to know there are other Muslims (finally because all anarchists I know are also atheists) who think that way...I also am attracted to the ideas associated with libertarianism and anarchy. Maybe you should have just defined anarchy for people because most associate it with chaos (one other word that is misused because it actually means emptiness) and lawlessness...Thanks.
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Salam and welcome to the forum
I believe that if your government is commanding according to the Quran, there is nothing wrong with obeying it. This will help law and order to prevail in the society and will prevent chaos.
459 O you who believe, obey God and obey the messenger and those in authority among you. But if you dispute in any matter, then you shall refer it to God and His messenger if you believe in God and the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for knowing.However, if your government is acting against the Quran then you should not obey them.
3367 And they will say Our Lord, we have obeyed our leaders and our learned ones, but they misled us from the path.That's just my opinion. I would like to see your views on it. )
Peace -
I think that at one time or another, a person must be an anarchist, at least a philosophical anarchist. Adn among muslims I have come accross with quite a few anarchists starting with myself. In Spain it is not unusual that at least some known converts are anarchists.
In fact obeying the laws is not so much a question that there is nothing wrong with it, but with that it may entail for you a lot of inconvenience not to do it. We could get started on banks, but we may end up exhausted before the end of the message.
The question with laws is not about obeying them or not, it is about their legitimacy or not. The fact is that, avow it or not, people are anarchists. They obey because they must, for their own good. And where there is no consequence, they disobey with no qualms.
So in fact it is not that laws are all that absolutely necessary but that they are imposed and one cannot escape them.
And laws when they are universally obeyed it is not because they are laws, but because what they entail is acknowledged by almost everyone as beneficial or necessary. To establish, for instance some way of distributing of food when there is scarcity, is a tacit or expressed agreement amongst all that it should be so for the common good.
So most of the time it is not because something is made into a law that is obeyed, but because it is recognized as good, with or without law. In fact there are many things that are not regulated by law and which people do right and that is becauswe of the cooperative instinct of social creatures.
However, in all this what is important is that one acknowledges no master, no ruler, no imposition as god given, but that one is always conscious of his or her own lordship of his or her own kingdom, the kingdom of his or her conscience, and the khilafa of God, which falls oh him or her, and not on some abstractly designed authority.
Salaam
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Thank you renegade this was the ayat I was referring to in my earlier post.
Based on this I have decided that I will uphold laws of the country I reside in (uk) as long as they do not go against gods laws as per Quran. So far I don't think there are any that I can see that oppose god and as Haruf put very aptly these laws are passed after a general consensus that they will help justice and order through out the land and in the overall betterment and justice for society.
Anarchy means chaos n destruction and as far as I'm concerned and what I have read that s the exact opposite to gods message. Don't be an anarchist for the sake of rebellion just because you have read. Take the best of it and implement in your personal life and those who touch your life first by patiently persevering doing good and educating peacefully those wanting help. These are my views anyway
Peace
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Salaam Everyone,
First off I want to thank you all for the thoughtful, positive and awesome responses that have been submitted. Also, I want to say that this forum is great, I love the free flow of thought and discussion. Thanks again to whoever helped start this.
To begin, I agree with many of you that you most anarchists tend to be atheists. I suppose this is just an unfortunate consequence of the birth of anarchist thought, however; I don't believe that it is a necessity.
Also Anarchy does not mean chaos or destruction. Please learn about where these words come from before you speak about them.
I also agree with many of you that it is not morally wrong to help a government to accomplish something that is ?good? (For example I work in education). And that it would be morally wrong to help a government do something ?bad?. Of course this leads us into a problem of what is ?good? and what is ?bad?. Luckily, the Qur'an does give us a few good explanations of this
?And that was 'Aad, who rejected the signs of their Lord and disobeyed His messengers and followed the order of every obstinate tyrant.? (1159)
?And We decreed for the Children of Israel in the Scripture, that indeed you would do mischief on the earth twice and you will become tyrants and extremely arrogant!? (174)
?Verily, Fir'aun (Pharaoh) exalted himself in the land and made its people sects, weakening (oppressing) a group (i.e. Children of Israel) among them, killing their sons, and letting their females live. Verily, he was of the Mufsidun (i.e. those who commit great sins and crimes, oppressors, tyrants, etc.).? (284)
?And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."Unquestionably, it is they who are the corrupters, but they perceive not.? (211-12)
?And when he goes away, he strives throughout the land to cause corruption therein and destroy crops and animals. And Allah does not like corruption.? (2205)
?And cause not corruption upon the earth after its reformation. And invoke Him in fear and aspiration. Indeed, the mercy of Allah is near to the doers of good.? (756)
?But seek, through that which Allah has given you, the home of the Hereafter; and , do not forget your share of the world. And do good as Allah has done good to you. And desire not corruption in the land. Indeed, Allah does not like corrupters.? (2877)
So what can we take from these verses concerning tyranny, oppression and corruption? And I am sure there are a ton more verses discussing this if anyone wants to bring them to the table that is great. Well I see a few things that are highlighted here
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Tyranny, oppression and corruption are not good.
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There are many forms of tyranny, oppression and corruption.
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Allah does not like corruption.
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I suppose first we should define what these words mean, the dictionary definitions state
Tyranny-1. arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority. Synonymsdespotism, absolutism, dictatorship. 2. the government or rule of a tyrant or absolute ruler. 3. a state ruled by a tyrant or absolute ruler. 4. oppressive or unjustly severe government on the part of any ruler. 5. undue severity or harshness.
Oppression- 1. the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner. 2. an act or instance of oppressing. 3. the state of being oppressed.
Corruption- 1. the act of corrupting or state of being corrupt. 2. moral perversion; depravity. 3. perversion of integrity. 4. corrupt or dishonest proceedings. 5. bribery.
It seems pretty clear from the verses that they are trying to enjoin ?good? actions which are contrary to tyranny, oppression and corruption. If anyone has any better definitions that we could use, or if anyone wants, I don't know how many of you know Classical Arabic, but it would be fun to break these three words down in Arabic, I would be willing to do it, or help, if anyone is interested.
- Throughout just these few verses we have read there seems to be quite a few ways that one can engage in tyranny, oppression and/or corruption. Here are the few that I could see from these verses following tyrannical leaders (1159), being arrogant with one's power (174), separating people into groups/sects and oppressing one of them (284), killing people's children (284), being one who causes corruption even if they don't realize it (211-12), purposely causing corruption in the land (2205), destroying crops and animals (2205), and desiring corruption in the land (2877).
This covers a lot of ground everything from simply following along with tyranny to cold-blooded murder of children, crops, and livestock.
- Allah does not like corruption.
That is fairly straightforward and now that we have seen some examples of corruption from these verses it should be easy for us all to recognize this type of activity around the world and in our own lives.
So I ask you, can you think of any government, or ruling power, throughout all its history, that has not engaged in tyranny, oppression and/or corruption?
The fact is that tyrannical governments were the number one cause of unnatural death during the 20th century. It is called Democide, look it up. Between manufactured genocides, wars, famines, and diseases the people running our world have been able to kill millions upon millions of innocent people.
For this and other reasons, we can discuss more about in the future, I consider myself an anarchist. Not only because we should be submitting to God and God alone, but also because I want to assert my individual sovereignty, I want to say that I am against what these tyrannical powers have done in the past, are doing now, and will do in the future. So I don't believe in governments per se, God's government for the individual is written in the Qur'an
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These may be some useful links for those wanting to learn more about Islam and Anarchy
9th Century Islamic Anarchists
http//www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/651252?uid=3739960&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21101942726227Muslim Anarchist Charter
http//www.steampunkshariah.info/manarchist.htm -
Salaam,
Cool, thanks for the thoughtful responses, and thanks for throwing those websites out there Karimah.
As far as your question goes Reee, this is something that I have thought about intensely for over a decade now. I believe that at this point in our spiritual, mental and physical evolution, it is next to impossible to live in this type of paradise; where no one exercises power over another person because all people are righteously self-governed. This is just an unfortunate fact that I think we all recognize. Anarchy is more of an ideal, than a reality.
We have all seen what happens when the dominant authority or power in a region disappears. You see a large struggle, often violent, between opposing people or groups who themselves now want to exert power over others. So obviously we have not gotten to the point yet where we can relinquish power over others completely.
In light of this, yes anarchy and Islam to me seem to be discussing a similar situation, just that most of anarchism has not factored in an all powerful creator into their philosophy. But if we think about Heaven or Paradise, that is what I imagine, no power struggles, no fighting, all beings living in harmony in submission to God.
So I don't necessarily think that is possible to attain for human society without the help of God. So as far as what to do with our time now?
Well I think we can only try to be the best people that we can, for me that entails resisting the world tyranny that is being setup, and educating people as to its existence. For other people it might be doing art, it might gardening, it might be working with children, or the elderly, it might be a whole number of things that different people dedicate their lives to. All are good, and all are needed, we are lucky to have such diverse interests, thoughts and motivations in our society.
So I guess what I am proposing, is that you learn to govern yourself, and if you follow the Qur'an then you probably already know how to do that really well. In my opinion trying to establish a government for others to follow would go against my anarchist tendencies, so I wouldn't get involved in such a thing. I believe that the "karmic balance", or all the good and bad deeds, will be sorted out by God on the Day of Judgement, so I will leave that for God. I just know what feels right for me, and that is to resist all forms of tyranny, oppression and corruption.
"For I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson
Salaam,
Kyle
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Salaam clashncruz,
the Qur'an does not support any fictional construct, such as a corporation, government, State, trust, person, legislation, ownership, etc., all these legal fictions are created to hold a living soul in subjugation to another or others.
If you consider a fiction is in reality a lie, and the Qur'an stands for pure truth, that alone exposes all fictional constructs as fraudulent.
The fictions are born from the Feudal system, which is founded upon the idea of hierarchy, the Qu'anic systems are based on establishing a model without fictions or hierarchy, if you wish to understand that alternative structure of community it is detailed here
http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/206/250/
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Hello, I just joined the site and I am of the libertarian/anarchist view as well. I love to follow politics and world events, especially learning about those pesky bankers ruling the world. I was a huge Ron Paul supporter as well. It's cool to meet a fellow muslim with these views handshake
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Peace All,
I Know this post is old but i am back after more reseach and reading i just want to say to all those muslim anarchists that were in this discussion i am now of that same thinking, i was just a bit behind you! lol
Democracy as we know it is the biggest trick ever played on mankind. I think i have waking up to the reality of what is going on (key word "think".
Anyway just wanted to put it out there since earlier I was the one advocating that we should obey the law of the land according to the guidance of the God not realising that the law of the land and the law f God are very different. I live in the UK and thought this is the greatest democracy in the world and that it was a fair and just society. What i was failing to see as i was blinded to it or more like decieved all along that i am not free and the laws within the "legal system" not in line with Gods Law at all in fact they are just big fat lies and anything that is decieptive and lie cannot be from God.
Anyway anyone who is also of this mind perhaps point me to any discussions or others like this?
Also, i am very interested to hear from people in the London area of England. I need to connect with more like minded people so please PM me.
Thanks
Affy