How can "salat" mean "learning connection/reading the Qur'an"

mmkhan

As I see it right now, based on the different meanings of the root word I found in Lanes lexicon, the word "salat" may indeed have multiple meanings as one fixed meaning doesn't appear to fit every occurrence. Perhaps it means "prayer" in some verses, "blessings" in others, "support" in others, etc. In terms of the "salat" people are asked to "establish/maintain", I believe this meaning should be one specific meaning throughout those verses at least.

Salaam jtc,

Try
Salaat = Connect/Connection
InshaAllah, it will fit all occurrences in alQuraan.

BTW Aqim = Straight

May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan

jtc

Peace Wakas and mmKhan.

I have to respectfully disagree with both of you at this point.

Wakas I read the link you posted. I do not see how you came to the conclusion that "salat = reading the Qur'an". You started off by giving the dictionary definitions of the words, but then chose "reading/reflection" which are not given. Doesn't Qur'an mean reading, why have a different word to say read the Qur'an? It seems like your analysis of what is being talked of in sura 9 regarding the idolaters is quite biased. Why can't "salat" mean prayer in those verses? You pretty much said "it doesn't make sense"; that is not a reason. Could it not be saying that if the idolaters started praying (praying should be to/for God alone not matter what the method is) correctly? Why could that not be a possibility?

mmkhan "connection" doesn't really mean anything to me or an average reader. What connection?

I am not stuck on "salat = prayer", but the alternatives that have been presented so far do not make give a reader of the Qur'an a clearer definition of the word or what to do. I do not see how "salat" simply means "reading the reading"; if it did I would expect that God would have said that in clearer words, and the dictionary definitions do not seem to fit that interpretation, also the question about the Qur'an mentioning previous generations reading a book not in existence is totally illogical. Connection is definitely a more fitting definition as I can see that in dictionaries, but it seems a little loose and open to all kinds of interpretations.

Right not, here is what I can say I know "salat" involves It is to remember God at specific times of the day. Other than that, I am still studying to understand what it is exactly.

I appreciate the input as it helps to see what others understand.

justamuslim

I too have to disagree with mmkhan on salat=connection. If I fit this definition in verses 4101 to 104, it just doesn't make sense.

@jtc, I don't think salat=remembrance either. Once again looking at verses 4101 to 104.

In another thread, "how to concentrate on salat", I posted my examination of these verses. At this point, what I know is that salat=ritual worship as people have defined it to be. So what does salat then mean? well....I am in the same boat in learning/understanding. Hoping and asking God to help me and guide me to a better understanding.

Need to spend time digesting Wakas posts on salat.....

357

2239

...if in fear do salat on horse back......

can one do salat on horse back and not even get off for wudu or tayamum?

peace

justamuslim

2239

...if in fear do salat on horse back......

can one do salat on horse back and not even get off for wudu or tayamum?

peace

This is another place where there is tangential thought. In the verses preceding and after 2238 and 2239, handling of divorce is being addressed. While God is talking about divorce, goes off on a tangent talking about salat, riding horses or being in fear and then comes back to talking about divorce? Doesn't make sense. Some of these verses as they are translated simply don't make any sense to me.

Salat in the context of the verses in 2238 and 239 must have something to do with divorce laws or commandment. Could salat = God's command or laws (pertaining to divorce) in this verse? I am wondering....

Btw - the word for horses is "alkayla" (verse 168 ) which I don't see that word mention in 2239. Did phonetic search of "rukbanaan" but this word is not used elsewhere in the Koran. Does this word have another meaning beside physically riding a horse?

Regardless, how does one pray while on foot or riding? this verse is translated, "if you fear then pray on foot or while riding..." Fear of what though?

justamuslim

what I know is that salat=ritual worship as people have defined it to be. So what does salat then mean?

Oops meant to say salat is not ritual worship as people have defined it to be.

357

This is another place where there is tangential thought. In the verses preceding and after 2238 and 2239, handling of divorce is being addressed. While God is talking about divorce, goes off on a tangent talking about salat, riding horses or being in fear and then comes back to talking about divorce? Doesn't make sense. Some of these verses as they are translated simply don't make any sense to me.

Salat in the context of the verses in 2238 and 239 must have something to do with divorce laws or commandment. Could salat = God's command or laws (pertaining to divorce) in this verse? I am wondering....

Salaat = Gods Command or laws (pertaining to an issue) any issue - in this case it is divorce. Of course at other places it is in relation to other issues.

Btw - the word for horses is "alkayla" (verse 168 ) which I don't see that word mention in 2239. Did phonetic search of "rukbanaan" but this word is not used elsewhere in the Koran. Does this word have another meaning beside physically riding a horse?

Regardless, how does one pray while on foot or riding? this verse is translated, "if you fear then pray on foot or while riding..." Fear of what though?

Fear of not doing justice in the case of divorce in this case - you can seek the advice/ or council of the wise/ those who have knowledge about such matters.

peace

jtc

Peace 357.

Would you mind explaining how you came to "salat= following God's laws"? Are we not supposed to follow God's laws all the time and not just at "fajr" and "'isha"? I don't see how this meaning can fit in here since "salat" seems to be something observed only at specific times of the day.

357

Peace 357.

Would you mind explaining how you came to "salat= following God's laws"? Are we not supposed to follow God's laws all the time and not just at "fajr" and "'isha"? I don't see how this meaning can fit in here since "salat" seems to be something observed only at specific times of the day.

Just a side note

With respects to all brothers who follow the traditional belief system a parasitic hindu doctrine has been forged into the actual methodology of the quran - if you know there where two groups in saudia fighting with one another , unfortunately after the death of the prophet and his companions the prophets family was annihilated and the other group took over bringing with them there beliefs and culture thus then redefining the meanings of the quran - to my knowledge.

You are right we need to observe His methods all the time. So how can there be a fajr or any other fixed activity? there can't be one, its simple, check out the meaning of the respective words to find another meaning that best fits the quranic ayah.

The word that best fits the ayah meaning.

The quranic laws are not bonded to space and time , but to the activities/actions of men - to my knowledge.

jtc

Just a side note
You are right we need to observe His methods all the time. So how can there be a fajr or any other fixed activity? there can't be one, its simple, check out the meaning of the respective words to find another meaning that best fits the quranic ayah.

The word that best fits the ayah meaning.

The quranic laws are not bonded to space and time , but to the activities/actions of men - to my knowledge.

This does not really answer my question. What does "salat" mean in 11114, 1778, 2458 in your opinion?

I don't mean to be rude, just wondering what your understanding of "salat" is according to these verses which seem to clearly indicate a specific time.

justamuslim

In verse 11114, specific time is not mentioned. Two ends of the day and at approach of the night - I understand that to mean all or entire day rather than a specific time.

357

This does not really answer my question. What does "salat" mean in 11114, 1778, 2458 in your opinion?

I don't mean to be rude, just wondering what your understanding of "salat" is according to these verses which seem to clearly indicate a specific time.

Peace jtc,

Using Arabic Dictionary

And establish Council of all kinds for Prosperity and go forward from the anxieties indeed the good deeds remove the evil deeds that is indeed worth doing for those who like doing things.

1778
And establish Council and engage the avaricious till the confusion/obstruction/darkness of the anxieties and the desire of the scripture???

I am not a language expert.

And sorry this translation can pinch some Brethren.

peace

Wakas

peace jtc,

You seem not to have understood the link I gave you. I recommend re-reading.

Perhaps I can clarify with a simple point

If someone gives you a book and says "uphold the bond" - what would you do, or what do you think that might mean?

It's really that simple.

jtc

Peace Wakas.

I honestly would say "what bond?"

I don't mean any insult or disrespect, but sometimes what makes perfect sense to you doesn't really mean anything to me. To the average reader "uphold the bond" is an extremely vague statement. If by "bond" you mean "remember God", should we not be doing that through out the day and not only as dawn and dusk, and why do we have to wash parts of our body before "upholding the bond"?

justamuslim

I agree with Jtc. I plugged in "uphold the bond" in verses 4101 to 104 and I am not getting it unless "taqsuroo" means something else other than 'shorten'. Still working on trying to understand....

Jtc - I think a lot of these words are not translated right. More and more, I think that some of it is translated literally when it is not meant to be. Ex if I tell you that "I will wash your mouth with soap" or "had my foot in my mouth" or "had my nose up in the air" or "chewing the fat" - these idiomatic expressions (and there are many) are generally understood by the average lay person. Just the same, I think salat and things associated with salat were generally understood by the general public at the time the Koran was revealed which we now are trying to figure out. My thoughts are based on a verses in the where God says that he made it clear, easy to understand..... But they are just thoughts as I seek a better understanding.

This whole washing (ablution) is something else that I don't get and simply doesn't make sense when you think about it.

Wakas - have you written any articles on this subject of ablution? I am still digesting and chewing the fat so to speak of the articles you had written.

I have not had that 'ah-hah' moment of clarity yet on salat besides that it is not this ritual worship.

Wakas

peace jtc,

I honestly would say "what bond?"

Exactly.

Answer is in the book you were handed.

peace justamuslim,

I have not written an article specifically on ablution, but I have discussed it on this forum multiple times. You said "...I plugged in "uphold the bond" in verses 4101 to 104 and I am not getting it...". Have you read/studied the link I gave http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm ?

If so, I also recommend http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html

Babansif

Salaam, I will go straight to the point whoever makes any of these claims that salat is not a physical ritual are only showing their ignorance with the Quran!
Ever since the Internet has been available to anyone anywhere in the world, there has been a surge of new self appointed interpreters who are playing havoc with religion and are inventing many new absurd claims. Perhaps they are ego seekers seeking recognition and one way to get it is by being different!
Needless to say, we have heard these claims before where they claim that Salat is not a physical ritual but that it simply means to uphold commitment to God or even commitment to our daily activities. Others interpreted Salat to mean the state of submission to God.
Those who advocate such claims may sound convincing to innocent readers who may not be familiar with the Quran, but it can easily be shown that all such claims denote a person's poor understanding of the Quran!

Let us read the following Quranic verse, it will give us proof that Salat is a physical ritual and not just a commitment (to God).

?And if you are among them and you lead the SALAT for them, led a group of them stand with you and let them have their weapons with them, then when they have prostrated let them stand guard behind you and let another group who have not done the SALAT yet observe the SALAT also while being on guard and armed with their weapons. The disbelievers would dearly like you to be heedless of your weapons and goods, in order for them to take you in a single assault.? 4102

The above Quranic words confirm the following

1- The word Salat in 4102 cannot simply mean a commitment since the words in this verse speak of the Prophet (or leader) leading the Salat. How can the Prophet, or anyone leading the Salat be leading a commitment to God? Commitment to God is a personal attribute inside the believer and is not something that can be led in a congregation.

2- The command in 4102 is for various groups of believers to stand with their arms while observing the Salat. Do we need to be armed to be committed to God? Obviously not, but because the believers are observing a physical ritual which makes them vulnerable to attack from the enemy they would indeed need to hold their arms with them.

3- The words in 4102 also say that while each group is observing the Salat with the Prophet (or leader of the Salat) that another group should stand guard. So if we substitute the word Salat here with commitment to God, or submission to God, then not only would the believers need to hold their arms while being committed to God, but they would also need another group to guard them while they are committed to God!

4- But that is not all, the words ?when they have prostrated let them stand guard behind you and let another group who have not done their Salat yet, observe the Salat with you? would raise further questions. If we use the interpretation of Salat to mean commitment to God, this would mean that the second group who have not yet observed their Salat, or in other words, who have not committed to God?s orders yet, come to the Prophet who will lead them to committing to God?s orders! Yet another proof to confirm that this absurd interpretation of the word Salat is in total violation of every word in 4102.

5- If we assume that observing the Salat means to be committed to God?s orders, or be in submission to God, then it follows that whoever has not observed the Salat yet is not in submission to God yet! We read in 4102 about a group who have not observed their Salat yet, this would mean that they are not in submission to God yet. So what are they doing with the Prophet, and how can they be guarding the believers.

6- Does the act of being committed to God need to be done in groups? Or does it need a leader? Obviously not, this again confirms that the Salat is a physical ritual which can be observed in congregation and under a leader who leads the Salat.

7- The verse continues to say that the disbelievers would dearly love to ambush the believers when they are not standing armed during their Salat. Once again this would make absolutely no sense whatsoever to say that disbelievers would love to ambush the believers while they are committed to God?s orders!

The above Quranic words make it very clear that the Salat is a very specific physical ritual and not merely a state of commitment to God?s orders. And because it is a physical ritual which involves bending and prostrating, it makes the believers vulnerable to attack from the enemy at times of war, thus they need to hold on to their weapons and also need a second group to guard them while they are praying.

Further evidence is found in the following Quranic verses

1- The Quran authorises three Salat and they are given three specific names, they are Salat Al-Fajr (Dawn prayer), Salat Al-Wusta (Middle prayer) and Salat Al-Isha (Night prayer). If Salat meant submission or commitment to God, why would we have three different names for commitment to God? And why would the names of these Salat be related to different times of the day?

2- ?Salat is decreed for the believers at specific times? 4103

Besides the fact that Salat is given three different names in the Quran, we also read in 4103 that God decreed the Salat for the believers for specific times of the day.
Now to claim that Salat means to be committed to God or be in a state of submission to God, then once again this would mean that God allows us to be in submission to Him only at specific times of the day! Surely commitment to God is a concept that is independent of the times of the day!

The specific times for the three Salat are given in (1778 and 11114). Once again if Salat means submission to God then we are allowed to submit to God three times a day and only during the specified times for each Salat!

3- ?When you travel in the land, you commit no error by shortening your Salat if you fear that the disbelievers may attack you. Surely, the disbelievers are your ardent enemies.? 4101
Once again if we assume that the Salat means commitment or submission to God, then this would mean that at times of fear from the enemy we should shorten our submission to God! Does this make any sense?

4- The words in 56 speak about washing the face and arms and wiping the head and feet before observing the Salat. Once again to interpret Salat to mean submission to God would mean that we cannot submit to God unless we wash first? It would also mean that if we wish to be in continuous submission to God that we should wash non stop all day long? On the other hand, because Salat is a physical ritual which is observed to glorify God then it makes sense to observe a form of physical purification before addressing our Maker.

5- ?When the call for Salat is made on the day of Jummah (Friday) you shall hasten to the commemoration of God? 629

Here we read about a call made for Salat on Friday, the following questions arise

Does commitment and submission to God need a ?call? or announcement?
Is there a special call for submission on a Friday?
The believers are to hasten to commemorate God when they hear the call, but the fact that they are believers would indicate that they are already submitters to God, so why would they need another call? Do they need to submit again, and specially on Friday?

6- ?You shall not utter your Salat too loudly, nor secretly; but use a moderate tone.? 17110

Once again if Salat means submission to God then the question of using a loud voice or whispering would not be relevant. However the words advising the use of a moderate voice indicates that God is speaking about a ritual that is spoken and this confirms once again that the Salat is a physical ritual.

To conclude, all the above evidence confirms without any doubt that the Salat is a physical ritual with specific physical acts and not a mere state of submission or commitment to God.
http//www.quran-islam.org/faq/salat_not_physical_%28P1394%29.html

PixelAngelBaby