a sunni sent me these...
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Can someone help me with these verses?
3334
4115
465
459A friend of mine who is sunni sent me lots to read to prove we should follow hadiths. The rest I drop kicked out of the park, but these are troubling me as they do appear to say follow and obey muhammads sunnah/ways
Also, what does al hikmah means and does anyone know the actual meaning of the word sunnah?
Oooh sorry, one more....I read earlier that it states in the quran not to follow hadiths....anyone know where exactly it says this??
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Salaam
3334This is Quran's Widom/hikmah, How we follow Muhammad only with the fabricated stories which published 200s years after death of Prophet, what metodology Bukhari has? Who are Bukhari's informants?Are they liar or not,good in memory or not?
465 n 4115 There is no word "Muhammad" in the Arab text.Rasul is not only Muhammad,Muhammad (Pbuh) himself ordered to follow Prophet Abraham (2135, 2136)
Sunnnah has multiple meaning, it can be saying, doing etc
In verse 456 n 7750
456 These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement after Allah and His verses will they believe?
7750 Then in what statement after the Qur'an will they believe?
(the blue colored words are "hadith/" in the Arabic text)
What happens if Muhammad made up false saying about God and outside Quran?
6944 And if Muhammad had made up about Us some sayings
6945 We would have seized him by the right hand;
6946 Then We would have cut from him the aorta.Hope it can help you
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One thing to bear in mind is that the Prophet was alive some time in history, but after he died he has not been there and is not here now so that we can obey and we can pay heed to him or follow him. So, when he died, that is it. Whatever he told his followers to do, they did it or not, but we cannot do it. It did not order us anything. What God requires of us is in the Qur'an.
God told all the peoples of prophets to pay heed to the prophets, to follow the prophets. Do we attempt to follow every single Prophet that has existed? No. We follow the teachings God gave them in as far as we can ascertain them. But we are not digging ourselves to death to try and uncover whatever little idea might havo come to them in their lives. They were sent with some teachings, which for our convenience were summed up in the Qur'an. What is attributed to the Prophet and is not in the Qur'an does not oblige us. We do not know for certain whether he did say or do what is narrated, because God only guranteed the Qur'an itself, not any other hadith. Whatever we accept or follow of hadith other than Qur'an, it is our sole responsibility and particular decision, nothing we can claim comes as a God given injunction.
Salaam
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Also, what does al hikmah means and does anyone know the actual meaning of the word sunnah?
Peace be with you and welcome to the forum. welcome
One of the verses you've quoted, which is 3334, tells about ?hikmah?.
Please read the following to know what it really means
DOES 'HIKMAH' (WISDOM) MEAN SUNNA OF THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD?
It is asserted by many Muslims that the existence of the 'sunna' of Muhammad (pbuh) which remains compulsory on Muslims to follow is attested by the following verse.
3334
"And remember what is recited in your houses of the verses (Arabic ayati) of God and the wisdom (Arabic hikmati); surely God is Knower of subtleties, Aware."It is further asserted that the 'Prophetic sunna' is embodied in certain Islamic secondary sources. The reader will note that there is no direct mention of the Arabic term 'sunna' in the above quoted verse (3334), despite the term 'sunna' being well attested and utilised by the Quran.
The word 'hikmah' has been used in the Quran many times. Given its multi-faceted usage in different contexts, it clearly denotes the 'enlightenment' or 'wisdom' one acquires from an accumulated body of work or knowledge.
This 'hikmah' (wisdom) is also not restricted to the Prophets or messengers of God, but granted to anyone who reflects, ponders and attempts to grasp the message of God and ultimately, to whom God pleases.
2269
"He grants wisdom (Arabic hikmata) to whom He pleases; and he to whom wisdom (Arabic hikmata) is granted receives indeed a benefit overflowing; but none will grasp the Message but those of understanding. (Arabic albabi)"Note the word 'albabi' above who are invariably those who make use of the faculty of thinking and of understanding. These individuals are linked by the grace of God with receiving 'hikmah'. Therefore, this 'hikmah' is available to anyone (God willing) who attempts to understand the message of God by extracting the best meaning.
3918
"Those who listen to the Word (the Quran) and follow the best meaning in it those are the ones whom God has guided and those are the one's endowed with understanding. (Arabic albabi)"'Hikmah' is also not restricted to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) nor does it refer to his 'particular sunna' as all Prophets of God possessed 'hikmah' (wisdom).
381 (Part)
"And when God took the covenant of the prophets, saying "I have given you a Book and Wisdom (Arabic hikmatin)..."With regards the people / generation of Prophet Abraham (pbuh)
454
"Or do they envy mankind for what God has given them of his bounty? but We had already given the people of Abraham the Book and Wisdom (Arabic hikmata), and conferred upon them a great kingdom."With regards Prophet David (pbuh)
3820
"We strengthened his kingdom, and gave him wisdom (Arabic hikmata) and sound judgment in speech and decision."With regards Prophet Jesus (pbuh)
4363
"When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said "Now have I come to you with Wisdom (Arabic hikmati), and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute therefore fear God and obey me."Also all believers are asked to use 'hikmah' (Wisdom)
16125
"Invite / Call (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom (Arabic hikmati) and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious for thy Lord knows best, who have strayed from His path, and who receive guidance."FINAL THOUGHTS
To assert that the term 'hikmah' (wisdom) mentioned in verse 3334 is proof and representative of the 'sunna' of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is untenable from the Quran's perspective. This is
especially the case when the sunna that is often being implied refers to a body of work not fully canonised until centuries after the death of the Prophet.Albeit the terms 'sunna' and 'hadith' are used synonymously in general parlance, there exists a crucial difference between the two transmissions. However, none of these transmissions is a reference to the 'hikmah' within the context of verse 3334.
The Quran remains the primary source for the interpretation of any term and it is clear from the few examples quoted above that 'hikmah' is the enlightenment and wisdom one receives and is extractable from a source text or revelation. All Prophets of God possessed this 'hikmah' as do those that ponder deeply about God's verses and whom God blesses.
Now, to know regarding the other verses you've quoted (4115, 465, 459), I suggest you to read the posts made in the past in this forum, and you may also read from outside sources on the internet.
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Oooh sorry, one more....I read earlier that it states in the quran not to follow hadiths....anyone know where exactly it says this??
- "Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things God has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their life may be near? Which HADEETH, besides this (Quran) do they believe in?" (7185)
Transliteration of the Arabic Awalam yanthuroo fee malakooti alssamawati waal-ardi wama khalaqa Allahu min shay-in waan AAasa an yakoona qadi iqtaraba ajaluhum fabi-ayyi HADEETHIN baAAdahu yu/minoona (7185)
- "Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless HADEETH, and thus divert others from the path of God without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution." (316)
Transliteration of the Arabic Wamina alnnasi man yashtaree lahwa ALHADEETHI liyudilla AAan sabeeli Allahi bighayri AAilmin wayattakhithaha huzuwan ola-ika lahum AAathabun muheenun (316)
- "God has revealed herein the BEST HADEETH; a book that is consistent and points out both ways (to heaven and hell). The skins of those who reverence their Lord cringe therefrom, then their skins and their hearts soften up for God's message. Such is God's guidance; he bestows it upon whomever He wills. As for those sent astray by God, nothing can guide them." (3923)
Transliteration of the Arabic Allahu nazzala ahsana ALHADEETHI kitaban mutashabihan mathaniya taqshaAAirru minhu juloodu allatheena yakhshawna rabbahum thumma taleenu julooduhum waquloobuhum ila thikri Allahi thalika huda Allahi yahdee bihi man yashao waman yudlili Allahu fama lahu min hadin (3923)
- "These are God's revelations (Quran) that we recite to you truthfully. In which HADEETH other than God and His revelations do they believe?" (456)
Transliteration of the Arabic Tilka ayatu Allahi natlooha AAalayka bialhaqqi fabi-ayyi HADEETHIN baAAda Allahi waayatihi yu/minoona (456)
- "Let them produce a HADEETH like this (Quran) if they are truthful." (5234)
Transliteration of the Arabic Falya/too BIHADEETHIN mithlihi in kanoo sadiqeena (5234)
- "Therefore, let Me deal with those who reject this HADEETH (Quran); we will lead them on whence they never perceive." (6844)
Transliteration of the Arabic Fatharnee waman yukaththibu bihatha ALHADEETHI sanastadrijuhum min haythu la yaAAlamoona (6844)
- "Which HADEETH other than this (Quran) do they uphold?" (7750)
Transliteration of the Arabic Fabi-ayyi HADEETHIN baAAdahu yu/minoona (7750)
Peace. peace
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My current take on it (still investigating) is that we do follow Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad and Prophet Abraham. But not in the Sunni sense. We follow their practices on religious rituals such as Salat, which have been passed down from generation to generation, with new converts learning from existing believers. But we don't take it beyond that. Sunnis will follow minor details of the Prophets habits (stepping into rooms with right foot first, etc). We also follow Sunnah of all the Prophets whose stories are in Quran. As these stories have lessons and examples in them for us to aspire to follow. As for Hadith? Different story. "Obey God and his messenger" does not mean write new books 300 years later and accept them as mandatory additions to Quran. Hadith?Completely man made innovation under zero authorization by God or Prophet Muhammad. After reading so many "Sahih" Hadith, I'm convinced that these were written by people trying to make the Prophet look bad. Disrespectful! And btw, no Hadith exists which will tell you step by step how to pray Salat. So Hadith and Sunnah are two completely different things in my opinion. Hadith has plenty of room for political motivations and corruption. Sunnah is just techniques for ritual passed down since the time of Abraham. And details don't matter. Just intention. But Sunnah forms a base. Just my opinion.
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Thank u all ). I've mailed my friend back giving reasons I don't believe we need to follow the hadiths of muslim or bukhari or any other for that matter. I included verses from the quran stating time and again that the quran is fully detailed in all we need and also looked into the whole hikmah thing on my [email protected] on! So included this point. And to end just asked him to read the quran alone, forgetting all he'd learnt before and if after that He still feels He should follow the hadiths other than quran then we will have to agree to disagree as I'm strong in my faith that he quran is all I need. Inshallah it will open his eyes even if just a tiny bit.
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And to end just asked him to read the quran alone, forgetting all he'd learnt before and if after that He still feels He should follow the hadiths other than quran then we will have to agree to disagree as I'm strong in my faith that he quran is all I need. Inshallah it will open his eyes even if just a tiny bit.
Alhamdulillah. Probably the best advice you could give a Sunni without trying to convince him of anything.
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Can someone help me with these verses?
3334
4115
465
459A friend of mine who is sunni sent me lots to read to prove we should follow hadiths. The rest I drop kicked out of the park, but these are troubling me as they do appear to say follow and obey muhammads sunnah/ways
Also, what does al hikmah means and does anyone know the actual meaning of the word sunnah?
Oooh sorry, one more....I read earlier that it states in the quran not to follow hadiths....anyone know where exactly it says this??
3334
This verse is directed to prohet Muhammeds wives (read 3330-33) and it states the "message of Allah", not "the messenger". So eventhough we would follow hadit this verse would be used to authentize hadith, then it would only be for those hadith from the prophets wives.4115 Again, the message is not for muslims, it is directed towards the hypocrites. Read the whole surah and it becomes quite clear
465 Again, speaking about the hypocrites, not muslims
459 This is a bit tricky. When taken out of context which it is all the time it looks like there is no doubt that prophet Muhammed is to be obeyed. Not following hadith does not mean we are to deny the history of prophet Muhammed, and with a little research it becomes quite clear as to what "obey the messenger" actually means. Verse 59 is talking about the military and political leader Muhammed, not his prophecy. Check out http//www.englishtafsir.com/Quran/4/index.html
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Thank u all ). I've mailed my friend back giving reasons I don't believe we need to follow the hadiths of muslim or bukhari or any other for that matter. I included verses from the quran stating time and again that the quran is fully detailed in all we need and also looked into the whole hikmah thing on my [email protected] on! So included this point. And to end just asked him to read the quran alone, forgetting all he'd learnt before and if after that He still feels He should follow the hadiths other than quran then we will have to agree to disagree as I'm strong in my faith that he quran is all I need. Inshallah it will open his eyes even if just a tiny bit.
Peace be upon you.
I'm always happy to contribute as much as possible. )
May Allah guide us to His straight path. pr
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Lol...got a reply to my email. It did no good at all. Apparently I'm on a 'dangerous path' and I 'don't want to arrogantly hold on to this position and pay for it later because it will be too late'
In fairness though, I do believe his advice is sincere and He just cares for me. But to me, that's all the more worrying. Hey ho....my final meeting is with allah and only He knows my heart and where I will be going. All I,or any of us can do is stay strong in our faith and ask ourselves everyday 'have I done enough?'
May allah increase us ALL in understanding and guide us to the right path. Peace sisters and brothers.
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Regarding following the Messenger in the Quran.
Although this point has been dealt with by many people lot more knowledgeable than myself on this forum, a couple of issues emerge
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If we keep in our mind the fact that these verses were revealed 1400 years ago to a group of people who had their doubts about Islam or were not sure how to respond to blessed Messenger's role and call. They were being told in clear terms what the role of the Messenger was and as Allah's sole representative and that he had to be obeyed as head of the community. They were asked to listen to him as someone who was conveying Allah's Message to them and not to turn away. He may also be giving them other instructions, about their everyday lives in view of Allah's Word, specific to those times. So where ever we read verses about obeying the Messenger as a representative of Allah means it was a question of authority and discipline. We find in history that there were certain opinions the Messenger gave on matters based on his personal opinion that were not related to Allah's Word and people had a right to accept or excuse themselves . As far as we are concerned, we must follow what Allah through His Messenger left behind and promised to guard it The Qur'an alone.
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If the blessed Messenger's sayings and deeds were of the utmost importance (as claimed by Hadith followers) then the question would arise that why were no instructions came down to compile and collect them in a separate Book for all times to come? It was well known what happened to stories based on hearsay over time They get corrupted and mixed up with falsehood. The Messenger himself knew well what happened to the Christians who ended up turning man to God and God to man, based on hearsay stories which got written down much later after Jesus (AS)! He could have given instructions to compile a book, verified it and approved it for Muslims of future generations. The first four Caliphs would have done it. Why did they not?
What we have here are collections by Sunnis and Shias often at odds with each other and containing material that clashes with the Qur'an. How can then, deen be based on conjecture and controversial material collected 220 years after the Messenger passed on, based on hearsay?
Although we can never say for sure if a report of saying/deed is 100% truth, we can allow the possibility of such material being true if only matches the Qur'an. Also we may read it as students of history to get an idea of the times of those who were gathering this material and a glimpse of early Islamic history. Knowingly and unknowingly we have adopted many practices handed down to us over generations and no harm in following them if they don't clash with the Qur'an.
Now, I have heard from many hadith believers that if the Qur'an was passed on to us with the same accuracy by people over generations, why can't it apply to ahadith? Well, the answer to that is that the Qur'an has an assurance of preservation from Allah. How He does it is His business. No such promise was given to ahadith and the Messengers sunnah. Here cornered, the hadith believers don't give up. They counter Hadith is part of Zikr and part of Hikmah so it is preserved as well by Allah!! Some of them even suggest that this being the case, Hadith abrogates the Qur'an!
Try all you can. You can't win can you? But, as the Qur'an says we must state the truth and guidance is up to Him Alone.
I just want to caution that as a student I could be wrong and welcome any other opinion. Some say that when Allah says in the Qur'an Allah and Rasool together, it means an Islamic Government (to which 1400 years ago disputes were to be referred). So, what happens when the Rasool passes on, you may ask. The Quran deals with this by asking if the Rasool were to pass on, would you turn on your heels?
When the Rasool passed on the Islamic government was run by a successor of the Rasool (Khalifa) to which matters were to be referred to.
Now, what to do when there is no unified Islamic government ruling entire Ummah?? All I can say is to explore this question further and sit down with consultation and come up with some solutions!! In the meantime, The Book (Qur'an) is there for us to run our affairs with mutual consultations. No harm in following traditions handed down from centuries as long as they don't clash with the Qur'an
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