Meaning of 57:22 and 7:172
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Alhamdulillah. Thank you for your responses. They were very helpful, I now have a place to start from. sun
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Salam all.
Still need 7172 explaining. -
Salam all.
I am stuck on Fatalism. I just don't believe in it. A sunni pointed out that 5722 is proof of pre-ordainment. I have read the whole chapter, and I don't see how this verse, in particular, is talking about Qadar. In fact I see it as natural laws, such as death and natural disasters, the natural law of nature if you like. I was asked, how did I come to that conclusion? I couldn't articulate my reasoning. Then the sunni pointed out 7172 informing me that we made a convenant with Allah before we were born, and then told me to read the Fundamentals of Tawhid by Dr. Bilal Phillips and all would be explained to me regarding Qadar. Well I've read the book, and quite frankly I thought it was a load of tosh. So if someone out there could very kindly help me out here. I've read the Freeminds article, had nothing on 5722. I read a few other articles aswell. I just need to debate this subject with clarity and back it up with evidences. sunYou don't believe in it or you don't understand it? Every human know that there is fate but its not something a human can understand. Just ask yourself when you were born and in which town and to what family. Did you choose any of that? Did you choose to be a male or female? I am not sure what is it you don't believe in. The fact that there is death and natural disaster tells us a lot. Did we humans choose the laws of nature or do we control the universe around us?
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Salam Bigmo.
I do not believe in pre-ordainment. I believe Allah knows everything and has the power/ability to control events if Allah wishes. I we are totally controlled by Allah then I do not think it would be just of Allah to judge us if Allah indeed mapped out our lives for us before we were born. If that was the case then Allah would not punish us or reward us here or in the hereafter. But those that believe in pre-ordainment use verses like 5722 to prove their case, and lately 7172 has been thrown in just to change lanes in the debate and throw another clanger at me. -
Salam all.
Concerning 7172, I am right in thinking that this verse and the verses before and after are about the people of Moses being given a message, but they ignored this. After that Allah gave the descendants of Adam a book testifying to Allah?s Lordship, but an evil generation succeeded them. They inherited the book and chose their arrogances over Allah. So Allah is telling them that they have no excuse, because they were warned. Is it that generation Allah is referring to, not the whole of mankind before we were born?
sun -
Salam Bigmo.
I do not believe in pre-ordainment. I believe Allah knows everything and has the power/ability to control events if Allah wishes. I we are totally controlled by Allah then I do not think it would be just of Allah to judge us if Allah indeed mapped out our lives for us before we were born. If that was the case then Allah would not punish us or reward us here or in the hereafter. But those that believe in pre-ordainment use verses like 5722 to prove their case, and lately 7172 has been thrown in just to change lanes in the debate and throw another clanger at me.What does pre-ordainment has to do with freedom of choice? Just because God knows the future does not mean you do not have freedom to choose. It seems you are not able to understand fate. Actually nobody does. But to say you don't believe in pre-ordainment than tell us did you choose who you are today? You did not answer the question I asked you before.
you said
" if Allah indeed mapped out our lives for us before we were born. If that was the case then Allah would not punish us or reward us here or in the hereafter". Than who mapped out that you will be bron in this time of history to this family and to this gender and you will have such features like color, race and tongue? You are mixing the two, pre ordainment which is a fact, and freedom of choice which is also a fact. But to understand how the two works is not humanly possible.
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Well, maybe I don't understand it, hence the question. I thought I did answer your question. Perhaps it is you who is not understanding my question.
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Salam all.
Concerning 7172, I am right in thinking that this verse and the verses before and after are about the people of Moses being given a message, but they ignored this. After that Allah gave the descendants of Adam a book testifying to Allah?s Lordship, but an evil generation succeeded them. They inherited the book and chose their arrogances over Allah. So Allah is telling them that they have no excuse, because they were warned. Is it that generation Allah is referring to, not the whole of mankind before we were born?
sun10/10
peace
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10/10
peace
Thank you sun
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Peace.
After coming away from the subject of freewill and pre-ordainment for a few months, I have gained a better understanding. Allah gives us choices/freewill, yet the Supreme always knows the outcome of the choices we make. peace
Still wouldn't mind some thoughts on the book by Bilal Phillips 'Tawheed'?