Proof that Qibla is the Kaabah in Mecca

[Babansif]

Salaam babansif,

Sorry I was so confusing you barely knew what I was trying to say "trying to say". Anyway, you understood me right and I agree with what you wrote now too. It was basically what I meant with my writing as well. I tried to get a bit deep perhaps.

God bless you

Salaam brother

No problem im always glad to help , all praise to God.
Do not trust what people say if they cant proov it to you with the Quran.
God made the Quran easy to learn but people is making it complicated. Let God guide you with the Quran.
Do not trust people when they say but how do we know that in that time this meant that and that meant this and so on. That is how people came to the point that al salat is not an physical form which I have proven to you all praiste to God with the help of the Quran.

salaam )

[Man_of_Faith]

Salaam pazuzu,

thanks for some good reading. worth giving some thought, though I do not adhere strictly to this pagan worship of "modern" times. That kaba was that black box I had doubted already and rather as you say a prominent high place, the Torah speaks much about "high places". Anyway, thanks again. Worth considering if Hajj is a pilgrimage to a high place to sacrifice something to God. It anyways makes some sense to what I've read in the Bible.

God bless you

[Babansif]

The word KAABAH which appears in the Quran, does NOT mean ?Cube? or ?Cubic Structure?. It is the feminine derived from KAAB, means precisely something that is prominent, sticks out, or stands out among its peers.

This meaning is found in the oldest Lexicons.

The Arabs of old used to call any person that was of prominent rank or standing among his peers as their ?KAAB?. A place or building that was important or prominent was described as ?KAABAH?. Arabian folklore and poetry mentions no less than nine other KAABAHS, notably The KAABAH of Najran, the KAABAH of Ghatfan, and the KAABAH of Shaddad. There is a wealth of information about these KAABAHS; you just have to know where to look.

The KAABAH of Najran, for example, was a huge cathedral that stood on a hilltop overlooking the city of Najran. The Saudis demolished it when they occupied the city in the 1930?s. It most certainly was not a cubic structure.

The Quran does NOT say Allah has made the CUBE to be the Restricted Sanctuary
It says {Allah has made the place of prominence to be the Restricted Sanctuary}.

You see the difference?

The KAABAH is not a physical structure of any shape or form. It is a natural place, a high altitude vale in a mountainous region, to which the Arabs, from the most ancient times (even before Abraham) went to slaughter livestock during the four restricted months when hunting was forbidden. Abraham did not build anything.

The current structure you see in Makkah today is the BLACK CUBE OF SATURN.

This is because 99% of humankind have deserted the Creator, and have instead stagnated in pagan worship and Astrotheology (worship of heavenly bodies).

Ever considered the days of the week? Ever asked yourself why the Muslims consider FRIDAY to be holy?
Let me explain

Friday = Freitagg, which is the day associated with the goddess Frigga, the Norse goddess of FERTILITY. Her equivalent, in Roman Paganism, is Venus, whose day is Veneris = Vendredi, and to whom a planet has been dedicated.

Monday = Moonday = Lunedi (from Luna). This is the day of moon worship.

Mardis = Mars Day = Day of the Roman God Mars, to whom a planet has been dedicated.

Mercoli = Mercredi = Day of Mercury, the Roman god whose equivalent in Norse Mythology is Woden. (Hence Wodensdaeg = Wednesday = Day of Woden).

Jeudis = Jovis = Day of Jupiter (Jovian Planet). The equivalent of Jupiter in Norse mythology is Thor (God of Thunder). Hence the name THORSDAY = Thursday = Day of Thor (Jupiter). The Greeks have Zeus, so Zeusday = Jeudi.

Sunday = Day of worshipping the SUN.

SATURDAY = SATURN day, the day of worshipping the god Saturn, the Lord of the Rings planet, whose symbol is a black cube.

Recognize this?

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/K16.jpg

It is a monument dedicated to SATURN, which stands outside the Sony Headquarters in New York City.

How about this one

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/K15.jpg

It is the same black cube in Santa Anna.

This next one is in Denmark

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/K17.jpg

And this one in Australia

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/K18.jpg

The religious Jews venerate Saturday because it is the Day of Saturn.

Look at his next photo

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/K22.jpg

As you can see, on Saturdays, they wear the black cube on their foreheads and their upper arm.

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/K19.jpg

They also have strict instructions on where exactlly the CUBE is to be fitted

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/K20.jpg

Take a closer look

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/K21.jpg

You can see the Menora emblem (Jewish religious symbol) on the black cube.

Now look at the next photo

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/K23.jpg

That is not the House of Allah. It is the BLACK CUBE of Saturn, which the Muslims unknowingly flock to, thinking it to be the Restricted Sanctuary.

If you want to make the black cube of Saturn your Qibla, then go right ahead. I respect your belief and hold nothing against you. But don't say the Quran ordained it.

The Muslims venerate the black cube of Saturn, as well as the black volcanic rock representing Al-Lat, the Arabian goddess of FERTILITY, whose day of worship is Friday.

If you want to venerate FRIDAY, then go right ahead. I have nothing against it. But don't say the Quran ordained it. The Quran mentions the Day of Congregation, NOT Friday.

The Dome of the Rock?

You mean this one?

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/thu_zpscb4c60c2.jpg

That was NOT built by Abraham. It was built by the Umayyad Caliph Abdul Malik Bin Marwan, who was a 33rd Degree Mason, in the year 692 AD.

Furthermore, Abraham never set foot in Palestine.

Salam and best regards.

This does not change the fact that God tells us that Kaabah is the Sacred Mosque , and that Muhammad was fighting the disbelievers who did not let them in to the Secred Mosque in Makkah which is called Kaabah. If Kaabah is not the Secret Mosque then find another Secred Mosque which is placed in Makkah since God clearly tells us that the Secred Mosque IS IN MAKKAH AND IT IS NAMED KABAAH.

[Babansif]

Salaam pazuzu,

thanks for some good reading. worth giving some thought, though I do not adhere strictly to this pagan worship of "modern" times. That kaba was that black box I had doubted already and rather as you say a prominent high place, the Torah speaks much about "high places". Anyway, thanks again. Worth considering if Hajj is a pilgrimage to a high place to sacrifice something to God. It anyways makes some sense to what I've read in the Bible.

God bless you

No problem brother, here is a site which tells you the details of Salat with Quranic words.
Read it and God willing you will learn how to perform Al Salat.

Salaam brother

[Babansif]

629 O you who believe, when the call to prayer is sounded on the day of ?jummah? (Friday), you shall hasten to the commemoration of God, and drop all business this is for your own good, if you only knew.

6210 And when the prayer is ended, you shall spread out throughout the land to seek God?s bounties; and remember God frequently so you may succeed.

The Arabic word ?Jummaah? literally means congregation. The day of Friday, which was given this name, means the day of congregation..

also here is Proof that God calls for prayers on friday, please learn Quran before you make statements like that brother.

Salaam brother

[noshirk]

The word KAABAH which appears in the Quran, does NOT mean ?Cube? or ?Cubic Structure?. It is the feminine derived from KAAB, means precisely something that is prominent, sticks out, or stands out among its peers.

This meaning is found in the oldest Lexicons.

The Arabs of old used to call any person that was of prominent rank or standing among his peers as their ?KAAB?. A place or building that was important or prominent was described as ?KAABAH?. Arabian folklore and poetry mentions no less than nine other KAABAHS, notably The KAABAH of Najran, the KAABAH of Ghatfan, and the KAABAH of Shaddad. There is a wealth of information about these KAABAHS; you just have to know where to look.

The KAABAH of Najran, for example, was a huge cathedral that stood on a hilltop overlooking the city of Najran. The Saudis demolished it when they occupied the city in the 1930?s. It most certainly was not a cubic structure.

The Quran does NOT say Allah has made the CUBE to be the Restricted Sanctuary
It says {Allah has made the place of prominence to be the Restricted Sanctuary}.

You see the difference?

The KAABAH is not a physical structure of any shape or form. It is a natural place, a high altitude vale in a mountainous region, to which the Arabs, from the most ancient times (even before Abraham) went to slaughter livestock during the four restricted months when hunting was forbidden. Abraham did not build anything.

The current structure you see in Makkah today is the BLACK CUBE OF SATURN.

This is because 99% of humankind have deserted the Creator, and have instead stagnated in pagan worship and Astrotheology (worship of heavenly bodies).

Ever considered the days of the week? Ever asked yourself why the Muslims consider FRIDAY to be holy?
Let me explain

Friday = Freitagg, which is the day associated with the goddess Frigga, the Norse goddess of FERTILITY. Her equivalent, in Roman Paganism, is Venus, whose day is Veneris = Vendredi, and to whom a planet has been dedicated.

Monday = Moonday = Lunedi (from Luna). This is the day of moon worship.

Mardis = Mars Day = Day of the Roman God Mars, to whom a planet has been dedicated.

Mercoli = Mercredi = Day of Mercury, the Roman god whose equivalent in Norse Mythology is Woden. (Hence Wodensdaeg = Wednesday = Day of Woden).

Jeudis = Jovis = Day of Jupiter (Jovian Planet). The equivalent of Jupiter in Norse mythology is Thor (God of Thunder). Hence the name THORSDAY = Thursday = Day of Thor (Jupiter). The Greeks have Zeus, so Zeusday = Jeudi.

Sunday = Day of worshipping the SUN.

SATURDAY = SATURN day, the day of worshipping the god Saturn, the Lord of the Rings planet, whose symbol is a black cube.

Recognize this?

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/K16.jpg

It is a monument dedicated to SATURN, which stands outside the Sony Headquarters in New York City.

How about this one

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/K15.jpg

It is the same black cube in Santa Anna.

This next one is in Denmark

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/K17.jpg

And this one in Australia

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/K18.jpg

The religious Jews venerate Saturday because it is the Day of Saturn.

Look at his next photo

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/K22.jpg

As you can see, on Saturdays, they wear the black cube on their foreheads and their upper arm.

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/K19.jpg

They also have strict instructions on where exactlly the CUBE is to be fitted

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/K20.jpg

Take a closer look

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/K21.jpg

You can see the Menora emblem (Jewish religious symbol) on the black cube.

Now look at the next photo

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/K23.jpg

That is not the House of Allah. It is the BLACK CUBE of Saturn, which the Muslims unknowingly flock to, thinking it to be the Restricted Sanctuary.

If you want to make the black cube of Saturn your Qibla, then go right ahead. I respect your belief and hold nothing against you. But don't say the Quran ordained it.

The Muslims venerate the black cube of Saturn, as well as the black volcanic rock representing Al-Lat, the Arabian goddess of FERTILITY, whose day of worship is Friday.

If you want to venerate FRIDAY, then go right ahead. I have nothing against it. But don't say the Quran ordained it. The Quran mentions the Day of Congregation, NOT Friday.

The Dome of the Rock?

You mean this one?

http//i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/Gorefiendel/thu_zpscb4c60c2.jpg

That was NOT built by Abraham. It was built by the Umayyad Caliph Abdul Malik Bin Marwan, who was a 33rd Degree Mason, in the year 692 AD.

Furthermore, Abraham never set foot in Palestine.

Salam and best regards.

Salaam brother Pazuzu

very beautiful photos.

i have to add a remark from brother ayman. Cubic stone seems also to symbolise goddess of fertility.
it is argued that goddess of fertility is a kind of wife for the sun (jesus for example is often represented with a sun behind).
The black color seems also to symbolize the burning by the sun. That would be the origin of the niquab and a good explanation for the archeological mistery of Black virgins.
of course, we don't need to waste many time to focus on the idolater symbolism of the "sacred black stone" of Mecca put in socle with form of femina vulva.
https//encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbnANd9GcQUIsWzZDVcCWVgMU2QuAILiKnDhaoYGLireUBZrawbrLjL9ozWOQ

Kaaba of idolaters is then, obviously, a pagan symbol of Goddes of fertility.
And of course, Goddess of fertility is associated with venus (from wich venerdi/vendredi =friday comes)

Now there is no contradictions with venus/saturn symbolysm of Kaaba since idolaters are used to mix their beliefs. Both theories can be true.

The more funny hypothesis i heard is that, probably,all those goddess of fertility are inspired from the true Issa.

Concerning the word Kaaba, i am agree with interpretation of prominent.
But is it a natural prominecy ?
in a context of Hajj in a meaning of religious debate with arguments, with had'y brought to the kaaba, is is possible that the prominency refers simply to a platform/tribune when speakers make speeches to explain words of Good.
Sure you noticed the expression maqaam ibrahim the place where Abraham stood up.

Happy to see you again brother pazuzu.

Peace

[hafeez_kazi]

Dear Babansif

We see the turning of thy face (for guidance to the heavens now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the SACRED MOSQUE Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is Allah unmindful of what they do. 2144

THE NEW QIBLA IS MASJID AL HARAM. FROM WHERE YOU GOT KAABA?

Who translated for you BI BATINAH as VALLEY. DO YOU KNOW THE EXACT WORD FOR WADI " "

ASK YOUR PROFESSOR OF ARABIC THE MEANING OF THE PREPOSITION "BI" and BATINAH. IF BATINAH IS VALLEY THEN SHOW THE PROOF.

IN 595 97 DO YOU FIND THE WORD "QIBLAH" ANYWHERE IN THE VERSE?

SHOW ME A VERSE FROM THE QURAN WHICH SAYS THAT MASJID AL HARAM IS IN THE VALLEY OF MECCA.

I THINK THAT YOU ARE A CHILD LOST IN THE VALLEY OF MECCA AND IN BETWEEN KAABA AND MASJID AL HARAM.

THIS IS NOT THE PLACE OF FANTASY, EVERYTHING POSTED SHOULD BE CONCRETE AND SUPPORTED BY THE CORRECT TRANSLATION OF THE VERSE.

YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE VERSES OF THE QURAN AND ARABIC LANGUAGE IN PARTICULAR IS VERY VERY POOR.

MAY ALLAH HELP YOU AND GUIDE YOU. PLEASE DON'T BE OFFENDED

ALL THE BEST FOR YOU IN FUTURE

THANKS

[Man_of_Faith]

Salaam,

It's a shame we always have to start flaming each other for our beliefs. Is it so important to be right to start acting in an irreligious way?

We have to be respectful of our various thoughts even if they may be wrong.

Take it easy and leave it to God to judge.

[noshirk]

We see the turning of thy face (for guidance to the heavens now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the SACRED MOSQUE Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is Allah unmindful of what they do. 2144

Salaam bro

i would like to comment this verse from a logical point of view.
2-144 is generally used to justify change in direction of showing butts to God.

the question is Why Muhammad was turning face before God gave him a new alleged direction for prayer ?
it is not logical. Before new alleged direction, there was only one direction of showing butts and Muhammad had no reason to hesitate and turn his face in many directions like if he didn't knew in what direction to pray.

here is my understanding
Quran was revealed one night, the night of qadr wich was also a full moon night.
Before that night, Muhammad was only a nabi (informed one). After that night, he became a rassol.
His new direction/mission (qibla), after success of hijra mission,, is given in 2-144, consists of teaching quran (words) .
So Muhammad was turning face in the sky like if he was asking "Oh my God, what to do now ?"
And God responded in the famous night "from now on, your mission is to preach and teach in places where Haram is to be heared (masjid)". And of course, all muslim have to go in such a places to hear what the rassool brought from his isra/travel to the university of Masjid Aqsa of Malaikas in the jenna.

Peace

[hafeez_kazi]

Dear Man of Faith.

I am sorry to say that you have misunderstood me. I have not committed any offence by bringing to the notice of Babansif that he should properly translate the verses of the Quran, ponder over it and then post it on the forum. everyone has a right to follow what he believes, but when someone puts his belief before others, then he should take care that his belief is validated by the Quran or logic. if someone points out to him his mistakes then he should rectify it and should not persist with the same thing again and again. I gave him three points to ponder but he failed to respond to it, but again came with the illogical translation of the verses pertaining to kaaba, masjid al haram, valley of mecca etc.

I did not use any offensive language and neither did I abuse him. Only words of caution and advice and this is not an IRRELIGIOUS WAY

Thanks

[Man_of_Faith]

Salaam hafeez kazi,

Okay, sorry I reacted so strongly and perhaps on the wrong person, but I simply dislike unnecessary conflicts. It's irreligious to behave opposite to God's teachings, but sometimes it is a matter of situation and we can all lose our patience. Trying too hard to prove we are right about things could be unnecessary and just cause conflicts.

He maybe has a traditional way of interpreting the Quran and those verses. Let him reflect upon his ideas and kindly tell him what you believe about it and try to leave it at that.

You are right, no bad language was involved, but I just felt the discussion got heated up and made a try to calm things down.

Sorry if I made someone upset with my remarks.

God bless you

[Babansif]

Dear Babansif

We see the turning of thy face (for guidance to the heavens now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the SACRED MOSQUE Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is Allah unmindful of what they do. 2144

THE NEW QIBLA IS MASJID AL HARAM. FROM WHERE YOU GOT KAABA?

Who translated for you BI BATINAH as VALLEY. DO YOU KNOW THE EXACT WORD FOR WADI " "

ASK YOUR PROFESSOR OF ARABIC THE MEANING OF THE PREPOSITION "BI" and BATINAH. IF BATINAH IS VALLEY THEN SHOW THE PROOF.

IN 595 97 DO YOU FIND THE WORD "QIBLAH" ANYWHERE IN THE VERSE?

SHOW ME A VERSE FROM THE QURAN WHICH SAYS THAT MASJID AL HARAM IS IN THE VALLEY OF MECCA.

I THINK THAT YOU ARE A CHILD LOST IN THE VALLEY OF MECCA AND IN BETWEEN KAABA AND MASJID AL HARAM.

THIS IS NOT THE PLACE OF FANTASY, EVERYTHING POSTED SHOULD BE CONCRETE AND SUPPORTED BY THE CORRECT TRANSLATION OF THE VERSE.

YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE VERSES OF THE QURAN AND ARABIC LANGUAGE IN PARTICULAR IS VERY VERY POOR.

MAY ALLAH HELP YOU AND GUIDE YOU. PLEASE DON'T BE OFFENDED

ALL THE BEST FOR YOU IN FUTURE

THANKS

Salaam brother,

there is some things I want to make clear to you,

1. Writing in caps locks wont make your words bigger then mine, and it is a childish and disrespectful so do not blame other for being poor little childrens if you yourself is acting like an idiot.

2. You are the only one who claims that the verse 4824 does not speak of Valley of Mekka, infact every Quran translation including Free Minds personal translater Progressive Muslim Al Quran has translated it as the innercity of Mekkah and and so on. The Question is now who is it who really has poor arabic? Unless every english Quran translater has poor arabic well then translate your own Quran. Here is the link that shows every english translated Quran and everyone names Valley of Mekkah, Innercity of Mekkah , Heart of Mekkah , Interior of Mekkah which all in other words mean the valley of Mekkah. So to claim that it is poor arabic well then you claim that everyone in the world who has translated the Quran in to english has poor arabic language. I wonder which one it is who actually has the poor understanding here?

http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/48/24/default.htm Here is the link, check it out and you can see it for yourself. Otherwise if you have so good understanding translate the Quran yourself beacuse what you now has claimed when we check the fact is that everybody according to you who has translated the Al Quran in to english har poor understanding of the arabic language.

3. Al Quran 595 O you who believe, do not kill any game during pilgrimage. Anyone who kills any game on purpose, his fine shall be a number of livestock animals that is equivalent to the game animals he killed. The judgment shall be set by two equitable people among you. They shall make sure that the offerings reach the Ka`bah. Otherwise, he may expiate by feeding poor people, or by an equivalent fast to atone for his offense. GOD has pardoned past offenses. But if anyone returns to such an offense, GOD will avenge it. GOD is Almighty, Avenger.

This verse clearly tells us that hajj is made in Kaabah.

4.597 GOD has appointed the Ka`bah, the Sacred Masjid, to be a sanctuary for the people, and also the Sacred Months, the offerings (to the Sacred Masjid), and the garlands marking them. You should know that GOD knows everything in the heavens and the earth, and that GOD is Omniscient.

This verse clearly tells us that Kabaah is the Sacred masjid (Masjid al haram)

5. 4824 And He is the One who withheld their hands against you, and your hands against them in the interior of Mecca, after He had made you victorious over them. God is Seer of what you do.

This verse clearly tells us that Muhammed fought the disbelievers in Mekkah

6. 4825 It is they who disbelieved and barred you from the Sacred Masjid, and even prevented your offerings from reaching their destination. There were believing men and women (within the enemy camp) whom you did not know, and you were about to hurt them, unknowingly. GOD thus admits into His mercy whomever He wills. If they persist, He will requite those among them who disbelieve with a painful retribution.

This very next verse clearly tells us that the Sacred Masjid is in Mekkah since God is talking about the disbelievers in Mekkah who tried to stop Muhammed and the believers from entering THE SACRED MASJID

7. 2144 We have seen you turning your face about the sky (searching for the right direction). We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid. Wherever you may be, all of you shall turn your faces towards it. Those who received the previous scripture know that this is the truth from their Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything they do.

This verse clearly tells us that our Qiblah is towards the Sacred Masjid

8. Full conclusion
9. 595 tells us that Hajj is made in Kaabah
10. 597 tells us that Kaaba is the Sacred Masjid
11. 4824 tells us that Muhammad fought disbelievers in Mekkah
12. 4825 tells us that the Sacred masjid is in Mekkah
13. 2144 tells us that our Qibla is towards the Sacred Masjid

So unless you cant find another Sacred Masjid in Mekkah which name is Kaabah well then you cant proov me wrong brother.

Salaam my brothers

[noshirk]

1. 595 tells us that Hajj is made in Kaabah
2. 597 tells us that Kaaba is the Sacred Masjid
3. 4824 tells us that Muhammad fought disbelievers in Mekkah
4. 4825 tells us that the Sacred masjid is in Mekkah
5. 2144 tells us that our Qibla is towards the Sacred Masjid

Salaam Bro
I advice you to read the second E-book of brother Pazuzu. There, he show how by renaming places and cities, places where history of other prophets occured has been changed.
Now, you have also to know that quite all that you believe about Muhammad and mekka comes from books written under the abbaside caliphate (who were persians) by persians story tellers.

Let suppose that your understantig of some words is right (Words like Masjid, Haram, Qibla, Kaaba, Safa, marwa, maqaam Ibrahim).
Now, you still have to proove that there was a city called Mecca in Hijaz at the time of Muhammad.
You have to proove that Kaaba word in Quran refers to a cubic stone in desert.

There is many things you have to explain. For example why Quran never spoke about the "statues" inside his "kaaba". Is not that a great offense in your understanding ?

Dear babansif,
quite all of us believed one day (and many are still believing that) that kaaba was your kaaba, mecca was your mecca, masjid haram was your masjid haram.

For example, you probably believe that Egypt is misr. But Egypt became named Misr only after the death of Muhammad.
It is quite impossible to explain to a misri that misr is not misr.
It is also quite impossible to explain to a meccan believer that mecca is not mecca. For that, the first step would be to purify his mind from what he learned from the other books than words of God. As long as a mind is full with words not coming from God, there is no place for words of God and even God will not put there the good understanding.

Peace

[Babansif]

Salaam Bro
I advice you to read the second E-book of brother Pazuzu. There, he show how by renaming places and cities, places where history of other prophets occured has been changed.
Now, you have also to know that quite all that you believe about Muhammad and mekka comes from books written under the abbaside caliphate (who were persians) by persians story tellers.

Let suppose that your understantig of some words is right (Words like Masjid, Haram, Qibla, Kaaba, Safa, marwa, maqaam Ibrahim).
Now, you still have to proove that there was a city called Mecca in Hijaz at the time of Muhammad.
You have to proove that Kaaba word in Quran refers to a cubic stone in desert.

There is many things you have to explain. For example why Quran never spoke about the "statues" inside his "kaaba". Is not that a great offense in your understanding ?

Dear babansif,
quite all of us believed one day (and many are still believing that) that kaaba was your kaaba, mecca was your mecca, masjid haram was your masjid haram.

For example, you probably believe that Egypt is misr. But Egypt became named Misr only after the death of Muhammad.
It is quite impossible to explain to a misri that misr is not misr.
It is also quite impossible to explain to a meccan believer that mecca is not mecca. For that, the first step would be to purify his mind from what he learned from the other books than words of God. As long as a mind is full with words not coming from God, there is no place for words of God and even God will not put there the good understanding.

Peace

Salaam brother,
If we gonna question everything by history, well then we can question everything in the Quran, Like some people claims that Allah does not mean God and so on, If we gonna think in that way we have to Questin the whole Quran, beacuse then who knows what Zakat, Salat meant at that time?
When we question everything then not even the Quran itself gets a reliable book.
But if we stop follow what other says about what this meant in that time , and what that meant in this time and only looking with Quranic words then it is pretty clear that Kaabah is in Mekkah and is Masjid Al Haram. And Quran is what I place as most reliable source not a Guy that claims that 1400 years ago this city was named this and kaabah was this, that is the same thing as following sunna / shia hadiths beacuse then you question the Quran with the sayings of humanbeings. There is many books which claim that Mekkah is the name of the same city as it was 1400 years ago, but this books dont agrees with your personal opinions and then you will probably reject that person sayings.
But since Quran is the only reliable source, and God has promised us to preserve is, If you follow Quran only God promises that it is a religion with no confusions.
And since if we Only go by Quranic words then it is telling us that Kaabah in Mekkah is the Sacred Masjid.
If we gonna reject Sunna/ Shia hadiths then we shall also reject everyone else sayings and only put Gods saying as reliable.
That is what I have done when I have come to a conclusion that Sacred Mosque is the Kaabah in Mekkah.

Salaam brother

[unknownuser]

Like some people claims that Allah does not mean God and so on,

And they?re right. It doesn?t.

GOD is simply DOG spelled backwards. Whereas LAH, in Arabic, means that which cannot be understood or grasped directly, (and must therefore be understood indirectly, through its creation or manifestation).

Consider the following linguistic structure

Tagha ? Taghut (verb ?tagha? = to transgress limits / noun ?taghut? = the institution of transgressing limits). This is why a tyrant in Arabic, is described as ?taghia?. -

Now, try to apply the same logic to

Jabar ? jabarut (repairing / reform) -

kahan ? kahanut (occult astrological / priesthood) -

LAH-LAHUT -

In our day and age, when someone goes to a religious institution to study the LAHUT, it means he is going to study ?that which is mysterious and beyond the direct understanding of the human mind?.

Now you see what al-LAH (Allah) means?

Does the word GOD provide that meaning? Can you find me, in any living language today, a three-letter word that gives the same intrinsic depth as LAH?

The fact is, when you "translate" the Quran to English, and render Al-LAH as GOD, you are making a complete mockery of the text. This is why, after 9 years if research, I have reached the conclusion that the Quran is UNTRANSLATABLE. The best we can hope to do is paraphrase it.

Makkah, Bakkah, Yathrib, Hunayn, Sina?a, Badr, Misr, are all real places. No one is denying this. No one is denying that the KAABAH is the Bayt. No one is denying the relation between Makkah nad the Masjid. The problem is this The geography of these places, as described in the Quran, does NOT MATCH the actual terrain where we think these places are, by any stretch of the imagination.

To rephrase that the names of places mentioned in the Quran, have all been projected onto a FALSE physical territory.

[Babansif]

And they?re right. It doesn?t.

GOD is simply DOG spelled backwards. Whereas LAH, in Arabic, means that which cannot be understood or grasped directly, (and must therefore be understood indirectly, through its creation or manifestation).

Consider the following linguistic structure

Tagha ? Taghut (verb ?tagha? = to transgress limits / noun ?taghut? = the institution of transgressing limits). This is why a tyrant in Arabic, is described as ?taghia?. -

Now, try to apply the same logic to

Jabar ? jabarut (repairing / reform) -

kahan ? kahanut (occult astrological / priesthood) -

LAH-LAHUT -

In our day and age, when someone goes to a religious institution to study the LAHUT, it means he is going to study ?that which is mysterious and beyond the direct understanding of the human mind?.

Now you see what al-LAH (Allah) means?

Does the word GOD provide that meaning? Can you find me, in any living language today, a three-letter word that gives the same intrinsic depth as LAH?

The fact is, when you "translate" the Quran to English, and render Al-LAH as GOD, you are making a complete mockery of the text. This is why, after 9 years if research, I have reached the conclusion that the Quran is UNTRANSLATABLE. The best we can hope to do is paraphrase it.

Makkah, Bakkah, Yathrib, Hunayn, Sina?a, Badr, Misr, are all real places. No one is denying this. No one is denying that the KAABAH is the Bayt. No one is denying the relation between Makkah nad the Masjid. The problem is this The geography of these places, as described in the Quran, does NOT MATCH the actual terrain where we think these places are, by any stretch of the imagination.

To rephrase that the names of places mentioned in the Quran, have all been projected onto a FALSE physical territory.

4144
If we made it a non-Arabic Quran they would have said, "Why did it come down in that language?" Whether it is Arabic or non-Arabic, say, "For those who believe, it is a guide and healing. As for those who disbelieve, they will be deaf and blind to it, as if they are being addressed from faraway."

Just by this verse I can with the Quran proof that you are wrong when you say it is untranslatable, your claims is proven wrong just with one verse from one surah.
Only for those who disbelieve it is not understandable( As for those who disbelieve, they will be deaf and blind to it, as if they are being addressed from faraway.) to, and since you dont believe in the Quran when you say that it is Untranslatable when the Quran says that whether it is a Arabic or non Aarabic it is a guide for those who believe. it is pretty obvious that you will be deaf and blind to it when you make your absurd claims that contradicts Quran itself.

Salaam brother

[huruf]

And they?re right. It doesn?t.

GOD is simply DOG spelled backwards. Whereas LAH, in Arabic, means that which cannot be understood or grasped directly, (and must therefore be understood indirectly, through its creation or manifestation).

Consider the following linguistic structure

Tagha ? Taghut (verb ?tagha? = to transgress limits / noun ?taghut? = the institution of transgressing limits). This is why a tyrant in Arabic, is described as ?taghia?. -

Now, try to apply the same logic to

Jabar ? jabarut (repairing / reform) -

kahan ? kahanut (occult astrological / priesthood) -

LAH-LAHUT -

In our day and age, when someone goes to a religious institution to study the LAHUT, it means he is going to study ?that which is mysterious and beyond the direct understanding of the human mind?.

Now you see what al-LAH (Allah) means?

Does the word GOD provide that meaning? Can you find me, in any living language today, a three-letter word that gives the same intrinsic depth as LAH?

The fact is, when you "translate" the Quran to English, and render Al-LAH as GOD, you are making a complete mockery of the text. This is why, after 9 years if research, I have reached the conclusion that the Quran is UNTRANSLATABLE. The best we can hope to do is paraphrase it.

Makkah, Bakkah, Yathrib, Hunayn, Sina?a, Badr, Misr, are all real places. No one is denying this. No one is denying that the KAABAH is the Bayt. No one is denying the relation between Makkah nad the Masjid. The problem is this The geography of these places, as described in the Quran, does NOT MATCH the actual terrain where we think these places are, by any stretch of the imagination.

To rephrase that the names of places mentioned in the Quran, have all been projected onto a FALSE physical territory.

[Man_of_Faith]

Salaam babanisf,

Brother Pazuzu did not say you cannot translate it, he says you must paraphrase its contents because Arabic is used in a completely different way than English. Hence this he does not contradict the Quran, but the Quran talks enough about the fact it was revealed in Arabic to raise some concerns about it.

Please do not underestimate brother Pazuzu, I can see that he is blessed by the Lord in many ways. I would love to see a translation/interpretation done by him in the future.

Together intertwined in the Holy Spirit, we can probably derive the true meaning from the 1400 year old scripture. Simply by trying to understand the Quran by trying to interpret it is too risky business, we also need to have divine backup.

Even what we have of its understanding today we know enough to live righteous lives as long as we do not follow the mainstream religion. Most people know how to be a righteous person even with the Quran, even without the Bible, we seem to be born with this ability. Even criminals know that they have done wrong in many cases (but cannot explain it). I could have been a righteous believer even if I had not discovered the Quran, but now that I have it I want to understand it perfectly.

Regarding the topic of this thread, I have read the translation "Turn your homes into Qiblahs" many times and it automatically renders the traditional understanding irrational. I am open-minded to suggestions of the true interpretation of this phrase and this word, and I will pray to God about it that He may enlighten me. Recently I have felt that I am walking along with the Lord on a beach (yes this was an allegory).

God bless you and I did not intend to mock you babansif, just see to that you open your eyes and see that Pazuzu is not nuts regarding the meaning he is trying to convey. We may all be wrong in many cases, Messengers in past ages could be wrong, but in the Light of God they were never wrong.

[Babansif]

Salaam babanisf,

Brother Pazuzu did not say you cannot translate it, he says you must paraphrase its contents because Arabic is used in a completely different way than English. Hence this he does not contradict the Quran, but the Quran talks enough about the fact it was revealed in Arabic to raise some concerns about it.

Please do not underestimate brother Pazuzu, I can see that he is blessed by the Lord in many ways. I would love to see a translation/interpretation done by him in the future.

Together intertwined in the Holy Spirit, we can probably derive the true meaning from the 1400 year old scripture. Simply by trying to understand the Quran by trying to interpret it is too risky business, we also need to have divine backup.

Even what we have of its understanding today we know enough to live righteous lives as long as we do not follow the mainstream religion. Most people know how to be a righteous person even with the Quran, even without the Bible, we seem to be born with this ability. Even criminals know that they have done wrong in many cases (but cannot explain it). I could have been a righteous believer even if I had not discovered the Quran, but now that I have it I want to understand it perfectly.

Regarding the topic of this thread, I have read the translation "Turn your homes into Qiblahs" many times and it automatically renders the traditional understanding irrational. I am open-minded to suggestions of the true interpretation of this phrase and this word, and I will pray to God about it that He may enlighten me. Recently I have felt that I am walking along with the Lord on a beach (yes this was an allegory).

God bless you and I did not intend to mock you babansif, just see to that you open your eyes and see that Pazuzu is not nuts regarding the meaning he is trying to convey. We may all be wrong in many cases, Messengers in past ages could be wrong, but in the Light of God they were never wrong.

Brother when someone tries to tell me that God is not Allah , then I will surely not follow his belief. Allah clearly mentions in the Quran that He has created all the languages in the world, Read in an arabic Bible ( The bible is not even originally from the arabic language) and you will se that God is named Allah in the bible to.

God is just the word for Allah in another language.

"Say, "Call Him Allah, or call Him the Rahman (The Almighty); whichever name you use, to Him belongs the "Asma al-Husna" (most beautiful names)." 17110

This verse makes the issue very clear. God here is telling us that He does not have one specific name. In God's infinite Greatness, there is not one name that is sufficient to make reference to Him. Indeed to God belongs all the beautiful names. The Quran lists over 90 names for God and not just the word Allah. We can call Him Allah, we can call Him "Al-Rahman", or we can call him by any of the beautiful names that are worthy of Him. Whether we use the Arabic word for a name like "Al-Wahid" for example, or the English equivalant which is "The One" does not make any difference. The restriction to use the Arabic words to call God is not a condition set by God. For this would falsely imply that only the Arabic language is worthy of calling on God!

Moreover, if God wanted us to call Him specifically by the name Allah, He would not include the words "whichever name you use" in 17110.

Some have also stated that ?Allah? is the real name of God, and that all the other titles such as Al-Rahmaan and Al-Raheem are the attributes of God. This claim is actually in contradiction to the Quran!

In 17110 we are told that to God belongs the beautiful names. The word used is ?Asmaa?. This word is the plural of the word ?Ism? which means NAME. It does not mean attribute. Naturally a name can have a meaning, and thus denote an attribute as well, but what matters is that God calls these titles as His names (Asmaa).

Therefore, if all these beautiful names are God?s names, would we still be justified to say that the word ?Allah? is the personal name of God? Would anyone be justified to claim that we cannot call God except by the name of Allah? How can we say that when God Himself told us that to Him belongs ALL the beautiful names and not just one name.

Therefore, for anyone to claim that the word Allah is the personal name of God or that the word Allah denotes the God of the Quran must indeed revise their knowledge in the light of all the issues discussed above.

Salaam brother

http//www.quran-islam.org/articles/god_or_allah_%28P1160%29.html

[Man_of_Faith]

Salaam brother babansif,

As far as I could understand this was not what you were concerned about in the post I read about earlier and this was not what my answer was about.

Of course Allah is God, it is the same God, because Allah is a word for God in Arabic. However Al-Lah has its unique meaning in Arabic, like "The Deity" while God could probably be derived from "good". I had this funny interpretation of the Swedish word for God, Gud, Galaxy Universe Dimension, while I was going crazy with my mind a few years ago, but I could not help it. So the meaning of the words is simply what you make of them, but nothing is wrong as long as it is not making fun of God or inviting sin.

I read the Bible too, not only the Quran and I enjoy it, especially the stories about Jesus in the Gospel, but most everything else is interesting too.

If someone has stated that the definite name of God is Allah then they are probably wrong. You can call God by the name of your choice as long as it is not to humiliate Him or that the name in clearly inappropriate.

Anyway, I doubt this was Pazuzu's intent when he discuss with you. I think it has to do with that you cannot directly translate the word Allah to God, because the words have different meanings in other languages, as in Arabic it is The Deity and in English like I said it is probably derived from "good". His concern is that you can paraphrase the original Arabic at best, and that sure takes a lot of divine inspiration for it not to get wrong.

But to look superficially at it, Allah is God, Gud, Got, Nkoz, Deu, depending on which language you speak. It is not like you will confined to Hell for saying God about God.

To finalize this post, I hope this settles any misunderstanding that may have occurred, since I could see it looked like you just went parallel to each other's understanding the whole time. And I hope I did not just put more fuel to the fire.

God bless you all with prosperity both in this life and the next