Proof that Qibla is the Kaabah in Mecca

Bigmo

What if he Ka'ba isn't where you think it is ? I mean, it is because of Mutawaatir isnaad that we get to know that the Ka'ba is indeed in ''That'' location. Isn't hypocritical to reject the way Salat has always traditionally been performed because of your rejection of tradition and aHadeeth and at the same time claim the Ka'ba is where you claim it is, because of that very tradition you've rejected ?

Salat is universally understood. As far as ka'ba is concerned if you read my post I said its not important where the Ka'ba is. Even the Ummayids at one time had a rival Ka'ba built. So the early Muslims did not give any significance to the Ka'ba being in Mecca. Salat is a huge issue for the Quran and is talked about in very different terms than the Ka'ba. The Quran assumes that salat is understood by anyone and for good reason since salat is universal among mankind.

If you read verse 2.177 you will see the Quran does not give any significance to Qibla. If you do not want to go to haj in Mecca and do not care about praying a certain direction there is nothing wrong Quranically with that. I am not sure the Qibla is towards Mecca but that is not relevant as far as Quran is concerned. But Qibla does mean prayer direction. I have a problem when people try to change the meaning of a term.

Bigmo

Also, they await the return of the 12th Imam.

Somewhere in the city of Samerra' (Iraq), there is a mosque with an open courtyard in its center. In the middle of the courtyard there is a barred iron grate which covers an ancient cellar. People croud around the iron gate sometimes, as when the light is right, they can catch a glimpse of a figure wrapped in a black cloack, and sleeping on the ground in a fetus position. It has been down there for 12 centuries, and has tossed and turned in its sleep several times. Strewn on the floor near it is a sword called Zulfiqar, whose blade has a forked tip. Also there is the Staff of Moses, and a copy of the Koran which is much thicker than the one available to all of humanity. (It contains missing chapters which the evil Sunnis burned at the command of Omar. These chapters declare Ali as the Wali and rightful successor to the prophet). Occasionally, the sun would shine on a ring on the figure's hand. This is Solomon's Ring, which gives its wearer supernatural strength. No one is able to lift the iron grate. They even tried machinery, but nothing works.

The gathered cround await the day when the figure will wake up, push the grate cover, and pop its head out through the opening. Hence the Zuhur. (The Awaited Apppearance). The Americans are also waiting for this day, and they will mobilize their armies in anticipation. The Mahdi will rise from the cellar of Samerra' and head towards the tombs of Aby Bakr and Omar. He will resurect the two Kafirs, behead them and resurrect them again...and behead them again...repeatedly, as punishment for usurping his rightful position.

Then, he will make his way to Makkah where he will usher in a New Age of peace and justice for all mankind (he will defeat USA and NATO's jets and drones with Zulfukar and his 10,313 followers)

It is reported that the Mahdi can, occasionnaly, communicate with some of the Shia Imams (who by coincidence, all have PERSIAN names), through their dreams. In fact , the Imam'ul Zaman - the Living Hujja - has even recorded his voice and broadcasted it during a religious talk show featuring a KAFIR Sunni Cleric from Syria, who had defied his Shia opponent on the show to provide a recording so the viewers could hear it live on the show. Apparently, the Living Hujja has trouble pronouncing and articulating the Arabic Quran, and makes several errors during the recording.

Here is a link to the YouTube video showing the incident

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVWc6zzITpY

This is the state that the so-called "Umma" have been in for the past 14 centuries.

Not 14 centuries but 11 centuries. These sects emerged as we know them today during the Abbasid era.

noshirk

Salaam Brother pazuzu

http//arthuride.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/mithras-and-his-12-apostles-signs-of-the-zodiac.jpg
Mithras and his 12 Apostles (signs of the Zodiac)

the 12 apostles comes from mithraism (zoroaster belief) imported to rome by roman soldiers and integrated in christianity by Constantin.
it is not surprising to found the 12 imams in the core of zoroasterized islam.

Peace

Abu_Laptop

Salat is universally understood. As far as ka'ba is concerned if you read my post I said its not important where the Ka'ba is. Even the Ummayids at one time had a rival Ka'ba built. So the early Muslims did not give any significance to the Ka'ba being in Mecca. Salat is a huge issue for the Quran and is talked about in very different terms than the Ka'ba. The Quran assumes that salat is understood by anyone and for good reason since salat is universal among mankind.

If you read verse 2.177 you will see the Quran does not give any significance to Qibla. If you do not want to go to haj in Mecca and do not care about praying a certain direction there is nothing wrong Quranically with that. I am not sure the Qibla is towards Mecca but that is not relevant as far as Quran is concerned. But Qibla does mean prayer direction. I have a problem when people try to change the meaning of a term.

your claim about the Ummayids 'corrupting' the Qibla towards which the muslims used to pray is somehow very strange.

Bring up your evidences, if you can -)
Assuming you can come up with an historical account to justify that claim, it would only prove my point, ie. that you rely on a methodology (as do the scholars of hadeeth) to assess which account (of the tradition) is true and which isn't.

your problem with people that try to change the meaning of a term is intersting in that if it is possible to corrupt the Qibla of a whole nation of arab-muslim, then why not the arabic language itself. For instance, what if the term 'Salat' meant 'Physical exercice' but the arabs corrupted it and rendered it into 'prayer'. It's a bit a caricatural exemple, but it's just to illustrate the idea.

Bigmo

your claim about the Ummayids 'corrupting' the Qibla towards which the muslims used to pray is somehow very strange.

Bring up your evidences, if you can -)
Assuming you can come up with an historical account to justify that claim, it would only prove my point, ie. that you rely on a methodology (as do the scholars of hadeeth) to assess which account (of the tradition) is true and which isn't.

your problem with people that try to change the meaning of a term is intersting in that if it is possible to corrupt the Qibla of a whole nation of arab-muslim, then why not the arabic language itself. For instance, what if the term 'Salat' meant 'Physical exercice' but the arabs corrupted it and rendered it into 'prayer'. It's a bit a caricatural exemple, but it's just to illustrate the idea.

I do not rely on hadiths. I have posted many post about salat. I look at the previous scriptures and look at other religious traditions. I said I couldn't care less about the Ka'ba. Which part of that you do not understand?

As far as Qibla the Quran says the Jews and Christians have their own Qibla and both these religions have a tradition of facing East when praying. This subject keeps going in circles. All that you are doing is speculating endlessly. Why don't you tell us what Qibla is then.

Babansif

Salat is universally understood. As far as ka'ba is concerned if you read my post I said its not important where the Ka'ba is. Even the Ummayids at one time had a rival Ka'ba built. So the early Muslims did not give any significance to the Ka'ba being in Mecca. Salat is a huge issue for the Quran and is talked about in very different terms than the Ka'ba. The Quran assumes that salat is understood by anyone and for good reason since salat is universal among mankind.

If you read verse 2.177 you will see the Quran does not give any significance to Qibla. If you do not want to go to haj in Mecca and do not care about praying a certain direction there is nothing wrong Quranically with that. I am not sure the Qibla is towards Mecca but that is not relevant as far as Quran is concerned. But Qibla does mean prayer direction. I have a problem when people try to change the meaning of a term.

Salaam brother, here is the proofs that Mecca is our prayer Qibla and as far as Quran is concerned it is relevant to pray in a Qibla which God has given us.

Salaam brother,

there is some things I want to make clear to you,

Writing in caps locks wont make your words bigger then mine, and it is a childish and disrespectful so do not blame other for being poor little childrens if you yourself is acting like an idiot.
You are the only one who claims that the verse 4824 does not speak of Valley of Mekka, infact every Quran translation including Free Minds personal translater Progressive Muslim Al Quran has translated it as the innercity of Mekkah and and so on. The Question is now who is it who really has poor arabic? Unless every english Quran translater has poor arabic well then translate your own Quran. Here is the link that shows every english translated Quran and everyone names Valley of Mekkah, Innercity of Mekkah , Heart of Mekkah , Interior of Mekkah which all in other words mean the valley of Mekkah. So to claim that it is poor arabic well then you claim that everyone in the world who has translated the Quran in to english has poor arabic language. I wonder which one it is who actually has the poor understanding here?

http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/48/24/default.htm Here is the link, check it out and you can see it for yourself. Otherwise if you have so good understanding translate the Quran yourself beacuse what you now has claimed when we check the fact is that everybody according to you who has translated the Al Quran in to english har poor understanding of the arabic language.

Al Quran 595 O you who believe, do not kill any game during pilgrimage. Anyone who kills any game on purpose, his fine shall be a number of livestock animals that is equivalent to the game animals he killed. The judgment shall be set by two equitable people among you. They shall make sure that the offerings reach the Ka`bah. Otherwise, he may expiate by feeding poor people, or by an equivalent fast to atone for his offense. GOD has pardoned past offenses. But if anyone returns to such an offense, GOD will avenge it. GOD is Almighty, Avenger.

This verse clearly tells us that hajj is made in Kaabah.

4.597 GOD has appointed the Ka`bah, the Sacred Masjid, to be a sanctuary for the people, and also the Sacred Months, the offerings (to the Sacred Masjid), and the garlands marking them. You should know that GOD knows everything in the heavens and the earth, and that GOD is Omniscient.

This verse clearly tells us that Kabaah is the Sacred masjid (Masjid al haram)

4824 And He is the One who withheld their hands against you, and your hands against them in the interior of Mecca, after He had made you victorious over them. God is Seer of what you do.

This verse clearly tells us that Muhammed fought the disbelievers in Mekkah

4825 It is they who disbelieved and barred you from the Sacred Masjid, and even prevented your offerings from reaching their destination. There were believing men and women (within the enemy camp) whom you did not know, and you were about to hurt them, unknowingly. GOD thus admits into His mercy whomever He wills. If they persist, He will requite those among them who disbelieve with a painful retribution.

This very next verse clearly tells us that the Sacred Masjid is in Mekkah since God is talking about the disbelievers in Mekkah who tried to stop Muhammed and the believers from entering THE SACRED MASJID

2144 We have seen you turning your face about the sky (searching for the right direction). We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid. Wherever you may be, all of you shall turn your faces towards it. Those who received the previous scripture know that this is the truth from their Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything they do.

This verse clearly tells us that our Qiblah is towards the Sacred Masjid

Full conclusion
595 tells us that Hajj is made in Kaabah
597 tells us that Kaaba is the Sacred Masjid
4824 tells us that Muhammad fought disbelievers in Mekkah
4825 tells us that the Sacred masjid is in Mekkah
2144 tells us that our Qibla is towards the Sacred Masjid

So unless you cant find another Sacred Masjid in Mekkah which name is Kaabah well then you cant proov me wrong brother.

Salaam my brothers

Bigmo

Salaam brother, here is the proofs that Mecca is our prayer Qibla and as far as Quran is concerned it is relevant to pray in a Qibla which God has given us.

Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by Allah. And never would Allah Make your faith of no effect. For Allah is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful 2.143

And God's is the east and the west and wherever you turn, there is God's countenance. Behold, God is infinite, all-knowing. 2.115

Righteousness is not that you turn your faces toward the east or the west, but righteousness is one who believes in Allah , the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the prophets and gives wealth, in spite of love for it, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveler, those who ask , and for freeing slaves; establishes prayer and gives zakah; fulfill their promise when they promise; and are patient in poverty and hardship and during battle. Those are the ones who have been true, and it is those who are the righteous 2.177

Wakas

salaam,

Full conclusion
595 tells us that Hajj is made in Kaabah
597 tells us that Kaaba is the Sacred Masjid
4824 tells us that Muhammad fought disbelievers in Mekkah
4825 tells us that the Sacred masjid is in Mekkah
2144 tells us that our Qibla is towards the Sacred Masjid

Your point 1 is incorrect (or worded poorly) as 595 does not say that, and your points 3 and 4 are not the only options as far as I'm aware.

I recommend reading http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html

hafeez_kazi

Peace babansif

No offence please.

It seems that you are fascinated by the words Mecca, Kaaba, masjid Al Haram, pilgrimage etc. In your every post you have distorted the meanings of the words to suit your wishful thinking.

In 595 the words are "WA ANTUM HURUM" You have translated as PILGRIMAGE. why?

GOD has appointed the Ka`bah, the Sacred Masjid, to be a sanctuary for the people, and also the Sacred Months, the offerings (to the Sacred Masjid), and the garlands marking them. You should know that GOD knows everything in the heavens and the earth, and that GOD is Omniscient. 597

God has apponinted the Kaaba and the Sacred Masjid as a sanctuary for the people, but what about the SACRED Months, the offering and the garlands. Are they NOT appointed as a sanctuary for the people? Don't leave half the verse unexplained.

Allah made the Ka'ba, the Sacred House, an asylum of security for men, AND also the Sacred Months, the animals for offerings, and the garlands that mark them (as a security or asylum or sanctuary for men) That ye may know that Allah hath knowledge of what is in the heavens and on earth and that Allah is well acquainted with all things. IT MAKES NO SENSE.

For you here is the correct meaning of QIYAAMAN

Do not give those who are of immature mind your property which God has appointed you responsibility make provision for them out of it, and clothe them, and give them good advice. 45

Show me the dictionary where you find QIYAMAN as SANCTUARY and HURUM as PILGRIMAGE

You translated QALAAID as garlands. prove that that were trees or plants or flowers to make a garland, in Mecca which was a desert and a barren land with 4 inches of annual rainfall.

what you are following is just what you inherited from your ancestors without applying your brain. You are belief in those translators is so MESMERIZING that you have failed to NOTICE the NONSENSE in their translation.

Here are some verses to ponder. try to find out where was the prophet, in MECCA or some where else?

Their purpose was to scare thee off the land, in order to expel thee; but in that case they would not have stayed (therein) after thee, except for a little while 1776

Such was Our way with the messengers We sent before you, and you will find no change in Our ways 1777

Even after the prophet leaving Mecca, the people of Mecca survived the onslaught of Allah. Did Allah changed HIS SUNNAH? Why were the MECCANS let off by ALLAH?

But if they turn away, say thou "I have warned you of a stunning Punishment (as of thunder and lightning) like that which (overtook) the 'Ad and the Thamud!" 4113

The people of Mecca were warned of the punishment, the like of AD and THAMUD. It looks like the punishment was not inflicted on the Pagans of Mecca, because in Mecca there are no signs of SUCH destruction nor the history has any reference to it.

So, the evil results of that which they earned overtook them. And those who did wrong of THESE (people to whom you (Muhammad) have been sent), WILL ALSO BE OVERTAKEN by the evil results (torment) for that which they earned, and they will NEVER be able to ESCAPE 3951

How did the Meccans escape the punishment? Why the due punishment did not overtake them? Why the promise of God always failed in respect of Mecca?, whereas the the people of old (Ad, Thamud, Salih, Shuaib, Abraham, Lot, Moses) all were destroyed for the same sin.

And SURELY We make them taste the lower punishment before the greater, that haply they may return. . 3221

You (the pagans of Mecca) shall SURELY taste the painful punishment, And be requited but only for what you had done, 3738/39

Show me one incidence where the Meccans tasted the LOWER PUNISHMENT of Allah? Show me when the Meccans received the ADHAAB UN ALEEM?

And this is a Book We have sent down, blest, and confirming that which hath been before it. And it is sent that thou mayest warn thereby the mother of towns and those around it. And those who believe in the Hereafter believe in it, and they guard their prayer. 692

And this is a Book We have sent down, blest, and confirming that which hath been before it. And it is sent that thou mayest warn thereby the mother of towns and those around it. And those who believe in the Hereafter believe in it, and they guard their prayer. 427

The prophet was sent to warn the mother of TOWNS (MECCA) and ALL AROUND IT.

Show me the places around Mecca where the prophet went and warned those TOWNS which were around Mecca. It is an open secret that the prophet never put his foot outside Mecca for 13 years till he was expelled from mecca. It is disobeying to Allah on the part of the prophet if he did not warn the TOWNS around Mecca.

And assuredly We have destroyed the TOWNS around you. and We have variously propounded our signs, that haply they might return 4627

Show me the TOWNS that were destroyed by Allah and were AROUND MECCA?

Is it not a WARNING to such men (to call to mind) how many generations before them We destroyed, in whose DWELLINGS they WALK? Verily, in this are WARNINGS for men endued with understanding. 20128

Is it not a WARNING for them (to observe) how many generations We destroyed before them, amid whose DWELLINGS they WALK? Lo! therein verily are portents! Will they not then heed? 3226

Now prove that the people of Mecca were WALKING in the DWELLINGS of AD, THAMUD, SALIH, SHUAIB, ABRAHAM, LOUT and MOSES. or show me which TOWNS were destroyed by Allah and in whose DWELLINGS the people of Mecca were walking.

There are still many questions to which the SUNNIS and the SHIAS HAVE NO ANSWERS except silence. For more than 15 years I have debated with the SUNNIS and the reply I got from them is that I have gone astray and I am a KAAFIR.

May Allah guide you to the truth which is hidden in the Quran.

Thanks.

StopS

1- First we acknowledge that the first house which was built for God was in Baca and was built by Abraham. I accept that Baka is NOT Mecca, God does not do spelling mistakes. What this means is that the house built by Abraham was not the Kaaba, there is no problem with that. But .. and this is a BIG BUT ... this does not mean in any way that Muhammad did not live in Mecca ... there are no Quranic words which connect Muhammad with Baca, Baca is only related to Abraham. In fact, the Quran connects Muhammad with Mecca and the masjid al-haram ....

On what basis do you acknowledge this? Where is Bakkah, Baca, Baka? Is the question where actually correct or should I rather ask "what" is Bakkah, Baca, Baka? Surely you know about the meaning of valley, weep, etc.
Why would an omnipresent god require a house? Why would an omnipresent god require humans to concentrate on one single house?
It's easy to say "this does not mean in any way that Muhammad did not live in Mecca"
It is equally easy to say that nobody knows whether Muhammad DID live in Mecca.
We have no contemporary texts indicating Muhammad or Mecca being anything special.

2- There is no problem either to say that the old Qibla was to Jerusalem, but this was changed with the revelation of the Quran to being the masjid al-haram (2144), and the Quran confirms to us that the masjid al-haram is the Kabaa and that the Kaaba is in Mecca.

On what basis do you believe this? Is Jerusalem mentioned in the Koran? Does the Koran specify what was changed when? Where does the Koran specify that the Kaaba is in Mecca?

Here are the relevant Quranic verses

1- In 4818 God speaks to Muhammad about the believers who swore allegiance to him under the tree ? the narration continues and in verse 24 God speaks about how He withheld the hands of he disbelievers in the valley of Mecca ? God is STILL speaking to Muhammad, this confirms that Muhammad was located in Mecca.

2- The narration continues in the very next verse and God mentions the masjid al-haram, so unless Muhammad was suddenly transported by rocket to land instantly somewhere at or near Jerusalem (which has no basis anywhere in the Quran), then it is obvious that the masjid al-haram is also in Mecca.

3- In 597 we are told very clearly that the Kaaba is the masjid al-haram

597 God has decreed the Kaaba as the Masjid Al-Haram, to be maintained for the people, and for the Haram Months, and the offerings and the garlands. That is so that you may know that God knows what is in the heavens and what is in the earth, and that God is Knowledgeable of all things.

4- 595 and 597 also tells us that the rituals of hajj are observed at the Kaaba (which is the Masjid Al-Haram).

According to the Koran, Muhammad is the recipient wherever he is, so that does not have any significance.
This is the story of some fight in some valley where they first gathered under a tree. Nothing of galactic importance, but an obscure side-sentence.
Where is the Koran clear on this? The Koran says that there is a house, not a mosque. I think bayt is house and masjid is mosque. Are animals sacrificed there? Decorated? If this god would know everything, then why sacrifice animals the way superstitious pagans used to do?
Your last sentence is more wishful thinking than factual analysis, so I am not convinced.

What do you think the reason for the hajj or pilgrimage is?
If you think it is mentioned in the Koran, why are there no rules or rituals described?
Where do you think the rituals we see today originated and why were they invented?

noshirk

No, he sent prophets everywhere
Solomon and David, were in Rome, Masjud Haram = Vatican of Roma
http//images.travelpod.co.uk/users/rcadventures/1.1274918852.vatican-city-st-peter-s-square-from-the-dome.jpg
The temple of Solomon, Massjid Haram

more proofs
Allah said, The Jinn ( genuises, eveil people and good ones, worked for him, they buit for him, Jufane ( Fountains ) -- must be marvelous, and breathtaking, and cannot be duplicated, cause it was the wish of solomon ( Statuee) also has to be in abundance and marvellous etc..
http//www.paradoxplace.com/Perspectives/Rome%20&%20Central%20Italy/Rome/Rome_Churches/San_Pietro_in_Vaticano/Images/800/Vatican-Fountain2-May05-D0493sAR800.jpg

Jesus Nassiriya (modern name Bejaia) occupied by the frensh
http//www.vudd-labo.org/baoff/bibliotheque/images/fle1318677680le_jardin_d_essai_du_Hamma.jpg
Home garden of Jesus, called Garden of Essai, or Jardin d'Essai
Shuaib (Archimed) Mediteraneen city Tel Mizen, called now Tlemecen, his name is Shuaib Bu Median, his grave still vitited , as a holy man, a saint, but not the messenger
http//www.algerie-monde.com/actualite/article2495.jpg
city of sidi shaib bumedian

Lot ( Plato ) is from Greece
picture of prophet LOTT
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Plato_Silanion_Musei_Capitolini_MC1377.jpg/400px-Plato_Silanion_Musei_Capitolini_MC1377.jpg
Lot , city that was destroyed is called Santorini, u can google it
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Ia_Santorini-2009-1.JPG
City destroyed by lava , most of the islands sunk
Abraham ( Egypt, Alexandrai )
Saba is spain, where the Queen the suslited to Solomon, In Roma
Luqman ( Russia ) called Eloq, known as the wise man and his son - u can google his story -
Jesus , was in UM Al QURA , AFRICA now, AMERCIA us a new UMQURA , and one of the prophets , buillt a country that is known now as the USA , their constitution came directly from the Quran, and wasn't written by the illuminatis washington

ETC...

If someone need an explanation, as to why these prophets and these cities, we will discuss it, from the qura, AND gerography/archeology, but only backed by the quran

well, if ROMA was the MAsjid Haram, than where is the Masid Aqssa ??? it is called Constantine, a city on top of a mountain, it still exists, totally ignored by medias, or archeologists and historians, Ignored volunteeraly, U can google this Masjid Aqsa Constantine, theory, and see the PICS
http//ehprod.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/8104881472.jpg
Constantine - North Africa - Arab = Qustantina - Quast Justice

For now, I have more pictures and cities of the messengers of the Quran, I will share only if u feel, this research is interesting, and in the same time, if prouven, VERY dangerous for the illuminati, THE FRENSH / BRITISH , who did the biggest crime against mankind by altering and hiding the True history, during the 18th and 19th centuries, when colonised the whole world

Well, with all this, I can add someting else, that might sound weird ; MEKA is MACEDONIA, Called in local dialect MAKE DONIA , in the quran BATNI MAKKA , same meaning, it is the place where alroum were defeated by one of the prophets

Sometimes i wonder if i should make a good joke for mushrikouns of year 4013.
I will make a hole in the garden and put there a paper in wich i would say that Makka is disneyland and masjid haram is house of mickey.

Peace

Man_of_Faith

Salaam,

Thank you Aamer. I chose to forgive my wife, and why I picked her in the first place was because I was naive, but when I married her I took a solemn pledge, so I felt I could not give up that easily. It seems to have paid off now.

Regarding my research, the aim is not to prove Shia Islam right or wrong, it is to see if there are any interesting connections to be found. I am well aware of the idolatry committed in this sect since I am living among Shia Muslims myself, and my wife was one of them.

Since it is off-topic I will cut the post here. Sorry people!

God bless you

GODsubmitter