Serious mistake in featured article: What is Salat?
-
Salaam
Before switching to "other books" to see how and when to do the 5 prosternation toward the cubic stone
to this
I have this
3121 And if they are told Follow that which God has sent down. They say No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing. What if the devil had been leading them to the agony of Hell?to this "traduction" and who see there number 5
20130 So be patient to what they are saying and glorify the grace of your Lord before the rising of the sun, and before its setting, and at the approach of the night - you shall glorify - at the parts of the day, perhaps you may be content.i have this
11114 And hold the SALAT at two points of the day, and the near part of the night. The good deeds take away the bad. This is a reminder to those who remember.now i have questions to "fiver's"
2458 O you who believe, let those among you who are maintained by your oaths, and those who have not attained puberty, request your permission regarding three times before the dawn SALAWAT , and when you put off your garments from the noon time, and after the evening SALAWAT. These are three private times for you. Other than these times, it is not wrong for you or them to intermingle with one another. God thus clarifies the revelations for you. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.the first problem is How many Salawat at fejr and at evening (please note that in some arabic versions, there is SALAT and not Salawat in 24-58 ???).
Why our teacher is linking private times and clothing and SALAT ? Why insisting on number 3 ? What happen if we change clothes more than 3 times a day ? Why 4th and 5th salat are not included ?
Why 3? why 3 and only 3 ?
PeaceExcuse my modest arabic, but I believe Salawat in 2458 is pronounced Salat, because the 'waw' letter has a small 'alif' on top, therefore it acts as an alif. Plus the 'T' at the end of SalawaT is not Ta, but Ta marbuta, which is used at the end of a singular feminine word.
-
Peace Pixel.
Excuse my modest arabic, but I believe Salawat in 2458 is pronounced Salat, because the 'waw' letter has a small 'alif' on top, therefore it acts as an alif. Plus the 'T' at the end of SalawaT is not Ta, but Ta marbuta, which is used at the end of a singular feminine word.
Diacritical signs, such as your small "alif", are later insertions and are never to be found in the early manuscripts. Hence we should not base our arguments on those signs.
-
Peace Pixel.
Diacritical signs, such as your small "alif", are later insertions and are never to be found in the early manuscripts. Hence we should not base our arguments on those signs.
I considered that but then if we still find a Ta-Marbuta instead of at the end of the word in the early manuscripts, then we would still have a problem understanding it as plural.
Personally I don't know what to think about whether the earlier manuscripts have been tampered with by the later addition of diacritical signs, but I thought Muslims are supposed to believe Allah preserved the Quran. And that He collected it and organized it accordingly. Why would Allah let man even slightly Corrupt/change any of it?
Please excuse any ignorance or misinformation on my part.
-
Peace Pixel.
I considered that but then if we still find a Ta-Marbuta instead of at the end of the word in the early manuscripts, then we would still have a problem understanding it as plural.
Yes, you are right )
I thought Muslims are supposed to believe Allah preserved the Quran. hy would Allah let man even slightly Corrupt/change any of it?
The diacritical signs are essentially an exegesis of the great reading representing how the exegete understands the message. God did also allow ahadith to come up, as well as the tafsirs of the scholars. Nevertheless the pure relevation is still visible and preserved.
-
Peace Pixel.
Yes, you are right )
The diacritical signs are essentially an exegesis of the great reading representing how the exegete understands the message. God did also allow ahadith to come up, as well as the tafsirs of the scholars. Nevertheless the pure relevation is still visible and preserved.
Hmm. Good point -)
-
Salaam
now i have questions to "fiver's"
2458 O you who believe, let those among you who are maintained by your oaths, and those who have not attained puberty, request your permission regarding three times before the dawn SALAWAT , and when you put off your garments from the noon time, and after the evening SALAWAT. These are three private times for you. Other than these times, it is not wrong for you or them to intermingle with one another. God thus clarifies the revelations for you. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.the first problem is How many Salawat at fejr and at evening (please note that in some arabic versions, there is SALAT and not Salawat in 24-58 ???).
Why our teacher is linking private times and clothing and SALAT ? Why insisting on number 3 ? What happen if we change clothes more than 3 times a day ? Why 4th and 5th salat are not included ?
Why 3? why 3 and only 3 ?
PeacePeace noshirk
Those three times mentioned are when we could be in a normal state of disrobe (naked) the other
times we are normally clothed (not naked).peace
-
Salaam,
I interpret it as a minimum of three prayers per day, it seems to be at dawn, noon and dusk. The middle prayer verse seems to tell that the noon prayer is important. Perhaps because we take our time to do something in the middle of the day in the name of God, instead of focusing solely on our normal work.
I pray more than three times per day a normal day and that is not because I follow Islamic tradition but because I feel it is doing that little extra. I pray normally, when I have the time, 6 or 7 times per day.
Anyway, I feel this is bringing me closer to God and the Truth, as well as attaining an inner peace. This may be different to others. The intention is most important.
God bless you
-
Salaam,
I interpret it as a minimum of three prayers per day, it seems to be at dawn, noon and dusk. The middle prayer verse seems to tell that the noon prayer is important. Perhaps because we take our time to do something in the middle of the day in the name of God, instead of focusing solely on our normal work.
I pray more than three times per day a normal day and that is not because I follow Islamic tradition but because I feel it is doing that little extra. I pray normally, when I have the time, 6 or 7 times per day.
Anyway, I feel this is bringing me closer to God and the Truth, as well as attaining an inner peace. This may be different to others. The intention is most important.
God bless you
Peace Man of Faith,
The key word in 24/58 is about privacy.
24/58 O you who believe, permission must be requested by your servants and the children
who have not attained puberty (before entering your rooms). This is to be done in three instances -
before the Dawn Prayer, at noon when you change your clothes to rest, and after the Night Prayer.
These are three private times for you. At other times, it is not wrong for you or them
to mingle with one another. GOD thus clarifies the revelations for you. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.Please note it does not say "noon prayer"
You are to be commend for your devotion to prayer, may God reward you!
Peace
-
Salaam hawk 99
It is not the verse I use to refer to middle prayer. Although it does not really matter, your intention is what counts.
There has been some turbulence regarding a third mandatory prayer or not, but I still believe in the middle prayer unless I have more convincing proof. I am not refuting the possibility that this verse may refer to some other thing than middle prayer, I am always open-minded and I want to know the Truth.
Two or three prayers, it is your intention that counts. I think only two prayers is a bit meager for my taste, but if it is the minimum requirement then God simply shows His mercy.
God bless you
-
Peace Man of Faith,
I still adher to the Five (opportunities) ritual salat, no one to my satisfaction has convincingly proved
otherwise. Salat is part of my daily life that I enjoy."Why throw out the baby with the bathwater" or "not broke don't fix"
peace
-
Salaam hawk 99,
You do absolutely nothing wrong by observing five daily mandatory prayers, if this is your interpretation and you have no intention of disobeying the Lord if you would be wrong.
I do not say you are wrong, I am worried myself about my interpretation and thinking there are 3 prayers per day, in fact I am so worried I keep 5 prayers a personal minimum for myself even if 3 may be correct.
6 or 7 is more than enough, but I would not claim it to be mandatory. It is my inspiration that tells me to do it.
In my opinion, this talk about amount of prayers, rakahs etc, is like Moses and the heifer his people are ordered to sacrifice. What color, age, type...
Seems like humor on God?s part!
That He intentionally omitted such details to see who are the true Believers.
Silly to be arguing about these details anyhow.
God bless you brother
-
Salaam hawk 99,
In my opinion, this talk about amount of prayers, rakahs etc, is like Moses
and the heifer his people are ordered to sacrifice. What color, age, type...
Seems like humor on God?s part!
That He intentionally omitted such details to see who are the true Believers.
Silly to be arguing about these details anyhow.
God bless you brotherAgreed
I remember us having this discussion
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604901.msg318749#msg318749
God Bless
-
Ah right, hawk 99,
It was our discussion and your original parable!
Seems we discussed the same thing, almost.
I love the analogy with the heifer, so humorous and tragic at the same time. Teaches us a lesson few seem to grasp.
God bless you
-
Salaam,
Forgot to mention the verse saying that the human being is the most argumentative type, unfortunately I forgot the number and chapter, but you know it is in there.
God bless you
-
Forgot to mention the verse saying that the human being is the most argumentative type, unfortunately I forgot the number and chapter, but you know it is in there.
Perhaps you were thinking of 100.6
I made a mistake in my reference (forgive me). I meant 107.4-5
Some people in here are still missing my point though. Someone brought up "following the forefathers" in relation to praying 5 times, which is an evil comparison that slanders the Prophet. What we "fivers" are following is the universally accepted way that the Prophet prayed as it was taught by him and witnessed by an unbroken chain of companions, followers, and believers. So this is my bottom line
The Salat was sent down and revealed along with the Book.
And I think this is why salat is so intentionally without detailed description in the Qur'an. Not just the timing, but everything! Allah could easily have said something like Oh you who believe, when you perform salat, stand and read the fatiha, then bow half way, etc... But notice that the washing before the salat is described in more detail than salat itself, yet the Qur'an is complete guidance. This is strange.
So to a person with any common sense, the Qur'an is forcing him to go outside the Qur'an for these details, and thereby forcing him to integrate with the community. This gives salat it's secondary function. Not only does salat connect a muslim to Allah, but also to his brothers, building unity in the faithful. I think everyone who's attended jumuah has felt this in his heart.
-
Perhaps you were thinking of 100.6
I made a mistake in my reference (forgive me). I meant 107.4-5
Some people in here are still missing my point though. Someone brought up "following the forefathers" in relation to praying 5 times, which is an evil comparison that slanders the Prophet. What we "fivers" are following is the universally accepted way that the Prophet prayed as it was taught by him and witnessed by an unbroken chain of companions, followers, and believers. So this is my bottom line
The Salat was sent down and revealed along with the Book.
And I think this is why salat is so intentionally without detailed description in the Qur'an. Not just the timing, but everything! Allah could easily have said something like Oh you who believe, when you perform salat, stand and read the fatiha, then bow half way, etc... But notice that the washing before the salat is described in more detail than salat itself, yet the Qur'an is complete guidance. This is strange.
So to a person with any common sense, the Qur'an is forcing him to go outside the Qur'an for these details, and thereby forcing him to integrate with the community. This gives salat it's secondary function. Not only does salat connect a muslim to Allah, but also to his brothers, building unity in the faithful. I think everyone who's attended jumuah has felt this in his heart.
Agreed