Another step forward...
-
Salaam wa'alaikum everyone,
I've been reading this forum for the past few days and I've decided I should probably just go ahead and join up. What a relief to have found this group. Google can be pretty amazing, yeah?
I am a young, American woman who began studying Islam about 4 years ago now. I converted "officially" and took Shahada 2 years ago, though I honestly feel that I had already "converted in my heart" long before that.
Like many here, I was delighted at the mercy of the Qur'an. It's beauty moved me, and still does. It inspires me to do good, to be an ultra-positive person, and to seek out people in need always. It washed away so many wounds I had from my childhood and teen years. It was almost like God said, Ok, girl, you've made it through high school, now here is the Qur'an, your reward."
Not only did the Qur'an appeal to me emotionally, but it moved me on an intellectual, modern, secular, and philosophical level as well. I am a student of philosophy. It is my passion, second only to my love of Islam, and I find the two overlap more often than not. That overlap is something only possible because the Qur'an emphasizes understanding and a seeking of knowledge.
In other words, when I converted to Islam, I thought to myself, "Why would anyone NOT be a Muslim? Where are people POSSIBLY getting all of these crazy ideas from? What is wrong with the Middle East? What on earth is happening?"
At the time I was heavily involved in gay and lesbian activism. I met a gay minister from England who was very involved in the community and was doing various outreach programs to create safe spaces for gays and lesbians to come and whet their spiritual appetites without fear of discrimination. One day, someone came up to me and said, "How can you hang around those people (gays), they should be put to death!"
I was shocked! I said to them, "What?! How can you say such a thing?! They are an innocent person! Just because you may not agree with their attractions doesn't mean they should be killed!"
This person went on to tell me that not only should they be killed, but that they cannot be Muslims. I asked where in the Qur'an this was being pulled from, and, of course, the hadith showed up. They told me that by fighting for the rights of "homosexuals" and by speaking to them about Islam that I was not a Muslim either. They said that a good Muslim would, essentially, cast them aside.
I was devastated. I felt tricked, fooled, lied to, duped... I felt like an idiot. I personally am not gay, but many in my family and friends are, and I did fall in love with a girl in college, and it was a good love for us both. My gay friends have often looked to me to be the "bridge builder" between them and faith. I am honored to have such a place among a few people. A huge responsibility that I handle with care. I did not want to mislead my friends into a trap where they would be dealing with the likes of that person who said those horrible things to me!
So, I started to study hadith, resolved to find a way to reconcile these teachings with what I believe to be the core of Islam, that is, submission to God, peace, mercy, grace, and positive action.
To be short I could not. I began to simply reject hadith, like many of you, and I distanced myself from Muslim communities. My suspicion and discomfort with the way Muhammad PBUH is elevated up to god-like status grows with each passing day. It's not that I believe all hadith are bad, or even wrong, but that they violate principles of obedience laid down for us in the Qur'an by Allah alone, and many are indeed in opposition to ideas in the Qur'an.
It's a blessing to have found these forums, especially when my iman is stronger than ever. I am more than ever eager to learn. I've been toying around with returning to school to continue my study of philosophy, perhaps eventually pursuing Islamic studies at a divinity school of some type.
We cannot allow Islam to be used as a tool to oppress others, and we cannot allow Islam to be turned into a path that turns away true seekers.
I feel a calling in my heart to do something great for people... to lead a religious life even... I'm still searching for the answer, and forgive me if I ever misunderstand, I want so badly to constantly increase my knowledge. I would give my life for this beautiful path. The one path.
Peace, love, unity, respect,
Peachy sun
-
Nice one! To me the best way to tease out the teachings of the Quran is through philosophical investigation. There are some exquisite jewels of wisdom.
About the condemnation of homosexuality, I have a different take on the story of Luth. My presentation may be found here https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwkIoETBwxQ&list=PLLJbENTfuMiixmSgzX7XNQ3tSbRtaaOkM
-
Yes it is, thank you. I'd be happy to. Do I need a bullet proof vest
-
Salaam,
Welcome to the forum.
I am respectful of homesexual people, I am not their judge, but I still wonder what God thinks about it. Anyway, I will not discuss this thing here.
Glad more people discover the Truth, for each person embracing God's religion I become happier and more content. We become more people to spread the Light.
With the Grace of God and with men and women of understanding, you will aquire more knowledge. Be steadfast with prayers, and seek His nearness and guidance as well as protection from the evil one and his followers. And submit to His Will.
He will increase both your knowledge and wisdom.
God bless you
-
Dear Peachy,
Welcome to the Forum. welcome
Me too I have recently join this forum and like you said.. What a relief..
May Allah bless us and guide us to the right path always.
Peace
-
Salaam and welcome
This forum can be a blessing but only in that it is God who gives us all knowledge. Only He can make this place a blessing and so on. We're just doing a small bit and it is He that is the Disposer of affairs and all matters.
Peace, unity, love and respect are essential parts of the path, as you rightly mentioned, that Allah (swt) grants to all of us who seek it. As always though, it is Allah (swt) that is the Source of Peace, Allah is the Most Loving, Allah is the preventer of harm and teaches us about respect and tolerance in its many ways. Sometimes, I do not always find this being practiced among Muslims following the Quran alone as well as those following the Hadith.
I know some people following Hadith do say harsh things and agree completely with the Hadith on matters that clearly go against what Allah has guided us towards. However, this does not characterise all of them. Just as there are people following Quran alone who can be quite fundamentalist and those who are not, the same is true for those who follow Hadith. So although some of them, like the person in question, may have said this, lets not forget the message of tolerance that not all of those following a way slightly or somewhat different to ours are like that.
-
Salaam,
Welcome to the forum.
I am respectful of homesexual people, I am not their judge, but I still wonder what God thinks about it. Anyway, I will not discuss this thing here.
Glad more people discover the Truth, for each person embracing God's religion I become happier and more content. We become more people to spread the Light.
With the Grace of God and with men and women of understanding, you will aquire more knowledge. Be steadfast with prayers, and seek His nearness and guidance as well as protection from the evil one and his followers. And submit to His Will.
He will increase both your knowledge and wisdom.
God bless you
Salaam,
I don't want to take over this thread but if I may, can I ask some questions briefly about the parts in bold?
Is it that you think the Quran prohibits homosexuality?
When you say evil one and his followers, you appear to be referring to Shaitan? Is it that Shaitan is a physical being and that is Iblis who turned into Shaitan? Are his followers anyone outside of Quran focused Islam?
I would add to this thread in general and in relation to my point in my previous point, that I find there are some among those who follow Quran alone who seem just like those who follow Hadiths word for word. I think there was a thread about this type of fundamentalism, I should probably look it up and post there, rather than diverting this thread.
-
Salaam,
I said I do not know what God thinks about it. It does not seem like doing it the way He planned it, is what I meant, the phycho/physiological explanation not even professionals can answer nor can I. I said I have respect for those who are homosexual, and I have patience, it does not provoke me, but I am allowed to have my thoughts right?
It is a choice as much as making many other decisions, maybe God programmed them like this and it is involuntarily, if I was against it I would be the judge.
Sorry, it only leads to unnecessarily heated discussions and those who are turned on by the same sex seem unable to help it, so best to let the topic be. Even some animals seem to have homosexuality in their way of living.
The Quran does not mention that homosexuality it prohibited, but I still think the Lut story hints at something about way of life. The interpretation may differ, but I take it as we are supposed to engage in sex the way God designed us. Please do not be provoked by my understanding.
The cities Gomorrah and Sodom did not get destroyed solely for ignoring the women, it was highway robbery and lots of other things they did evil in the sight of God. Many factors involved.
The Bible narrates pretty much the same story.
Also, the people of Lut seem to have indulged in this behavior deliberately, like the whole city, in orgies I barely want to think about. They even seem to have wanted to rape the messengers that came to Lut (since angels seem to often look like young handsome men perhaps, when disguised) and Lut even desperately offered his daughters to the people who came to his home. How can I interpret the Quran differently other than they forced people into homosexual intercourse?
Yet, I am open towards gays, I used to have acquaintances who were homosexuals and I have respect. These people are seemingly genetically programmed to this behavior and can thus not help it. Like I said earlier in the post, not even professionals can explain the emotions occurring causing these feelings for the same sex.
I am not qualified to deem whether these are induced feelings or naturally occurring feelings which cannot be restrained. I am sure not even educated psychologists can satisfactorily answer this question. Some have tried to make theories, but they cannot be proved scientifically.
I am not qualified to fully explain what Shaitaan is, but I know it is a fallen angel and he is the cause of misery here on Earth by misleading the crowds from the path of God. Followers are those who fulfill his wishes and commit evil. His presence here could be like something of a demon, a force field rather than a physical being, you cannot see him, but he influences people through various means, for example, by "whispers" and perhaps dreams (in the case of Abraham and his sacrifice of the son). Maybe we are created with a part of him inside of each person.
I have not read much hadith other than the Quran and the Bible, so I do not know what the hadith of "Muhammad" is saying to a greater extent. My ideas are not based on other than my understanding of the Quran and my own thoughts.
Sorry for bringing this discussion here and for polluting the welcome of our new member by this provoked reply.
God bless you
-
Salaam,
I said I do not know what God thinks about it. It does not seem like doing it the way He planned it, is what I meant, the phycho/physiological explanation not even professionals can answer nor can I. I said I have respect for those who are homosexual, and I have patience, it does not provoke me, but I am allowed to have my thoughts right?
It is a choice as much as making many other decisions, maybe God programmed them like this and it is involuntarily, if I was against it I would be the judge.
Sorry, it only leads to unnecessarily heated discussions and those who are turned on by the same sex seem unable to help it, so best to let the topic be. Even some animals seem to have homosexuality in their way of living.
The Quran does not mention that homosexuality it prohibited, but I still think the Lut story hints at something about way of life. The interpretation may differ, but I take it as we are supposed to engage in sex the way God designed us. Please do not be provoked by my understanding.
The cities Gomorrah and Sodom did not get destroyed solely for ignoring the women, it was highway robbery and lots of other things they did evil in the sight of God. Many factors involved.
The Bible narrates pretty much the same story.
Also, the people of Lut seem to have indulged in this behavior deliberately, like the whole city, in orgies I barely want to think about. They even seem to have wanted to rape the messengers that came to Lut (since angels seem to often look like young handsome men perhaps, when disguised) and Lut even desperately offered his daughters to the people who came to his home. How can I interpret the Quran differently other than they forced people into homosexual intercourse?
Yet, I am open towards gays, I used to have acquaintances who were homosexuals and I have respect. These people are seemingly genetically programmed to this behavior and can thus not help it. Like I said earlier in the post, not even professionals can explain the emotions occurring causing these feelings for the same sex.
I am not qualified to deem whether these are induced feelings or naturally occurring feelings which cannot be restrained. I am sure not even educated psychologists can satisfactorily answer this question. Some have tried to make theories, but they cannot be proved scientifically.
I am not qualified to fully explain what Shaitaan is, but I know it is a fallen angel and he is the cause of misery here on Earth by misleading the crowds from the path of God. Followers are those who fulfill his wishes and commit evil. His presence here could be like something of a demon, a force field rather than a physical being, you cannot see him, but he influences people through various means, for example, by "whispers" and perhaps dreams (in the case of Abraham and his sacrifice of the son). Maybe we are created with a part of him inside of each person.
I have not read much hadith other than the Quran and the Bible, so I do not know what the hadith of "Muhammad" is saying to a greater extent. My ideas are not based on other than my understanding of the Quran and my own thoughts.
Sorry for bringing this discussion here and for polluting the welcome of our new member by this provoked reply.
God bless you
Salaam,
Yes, you are allowed to have your own thoughts. I was just wondering how you view that in relation to the Quran. Sorry if the questions seemed too intrusive or whatever.
Well thanks for your explanations, I will not respond to it since as you said we should not take over the thread. I will say I might agree with you on some points about homosexuality, by leaving things out I think God has made things easier for us in modern times. In terms of satan, I disagree in terms of where I am now but that's not a problem. I don't think we'd be human if we agreed on everything. I would PM the response but there doesn't seem a need to from the style of this "discussion".
Having said that, in my humble opinion, people should ease up about the direction a thread goes in. In fact, any thread I make I would be happy to see people "polluting" it if they are having a discussion that benefits them and was spurred on by comments made on that thread. It's natural for human beings to do that. If its not helpful for people on one thread after a while then a new thread can be made. Patience, tolerance and all that.
I am not provoked by anything you have said and I don't understand what a provoked reply means, but I was asking some general questions. I'll leave it there, thanks all the same.
-
Don't feel bad about the responses. When you bring up something like LGBT in a religious group you are going to spark discussion for better or worse. I think the telling thing for me was realizing, not only through my own experience but through knowing others, that the nature of the majority of gay and lesbian relationships I have seen have been in stark contrast to what is implied and communicated via the story of Lot.
On one hand I have my friends searching desperately for the same thing I am love and companionship, and on the other I have a story about a city that sounds like it had, frankly, gone insane with evil and lawlessness. The natures do not seem to align in my mind.
Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone.
sun
