explain please if can !

[drfazl]

then I can only say sorry for those who don't know Arabic of how much they could be lost x

Taj Where did I say/write that "if you do not know arabic you are loser!" !!!???

What ! You say and then ask me where did I say ?

What I said and meant was this If you didn't know Arabic and had to depend on the translators to work for you, instead of you working for yourself, you could very possibly lose a lot of the true meanings of the Quran, naturally.

Translation is never true meanings as far as the Book Quran is concerned, since its meanings are with Allah. Hikmath is the basis to understand Quran and that grant is from Allah. If you forget this and stay a believer in arabic word by word translation you are a loser!
-.

[TAJ]

To submit to man's soul!!?? What book are you reading from? If you think that Sakhkhara as in means 'submit to man's soul', then I can only say sorry for those who don't know Arabic of how much they could be lost x

Please! Never your scholarly brilliance in arabic will teach you Quran, unless HE Himself teaches you the BAYAN. So never overstep your limits saying if you do not know arabic you are loser! If you repeat the same you lose more heavily, for your blasphemy!

Where did I say/write that "if you do not know arabic you are loser!" !!!???

What ! You say and then ask me where did I say ?

First
The words in red are your own words which you didn't bring up in your post above. Why do you quote me then you hide your own replies!? Is this your way of fair discussion?

Second
If you don't know the difference between

• could be lost *
  and
• you are loser *
  then don't waste my time, will you?

Taj

[TheNabi]

Salaam,

Arabic is a human language, whether God utilizes it or not and I do not personally believe that it is special compared to all others, or better. If people cannot bring alhaqq to the people in their language then let others, it is not impossible or even nearly impossible to do such.

Joe

[drfazl]

Second
If you don't know the difference between

• could be lost *
  and
• you are loser *
  then don't waste my time, will you?
  Taj

You mean very well what you meant by those two ways of speaking! Ok, it is time!

[TAJ]

To submit to man's soul!!?? What book are you reading from? If you think that Sakhkhara as in means 'submit to man's soul', then I can only say sorry for those who don't know Arabic of how much they could be lost

Please! Never your scholarly brilliance in arabic will teach you Quran, unless HE Himself teaches you the BAYAN. So never overstep your limits saying if you do not know arabic you are loser! If you repeat the same you lose more heavily, for your blasphemy!

Where did I say/write that "if you do not know arabic you are loser!" !!!???

What ! You say and then ask me where did I say ?

The words in red are your own words which you didn't bring up in your post above. Why do you quote me then you hide your own replies!? And you also added the face x when you quoted me, that 'mad' face does not even exist in my original post!!!
Is this your idea of fair discussion?

• could be lost * are my words.

• you are loser * are you own words. Why are you denying what you wrote? You are too ashamed to admit your own words.

And not just that, you go on and insist on your lie! shock

Second
If you don't know the difference between

• could be lost *
  and
• you are loser *
  then don't waste my time, will you?
  Taj

You mean very well what you meant by those two ways of speaking! Ok, it is time!

Two ways of speaking!!!!????

Taj

[drfazl]

• you are loser * are you own words. Why are you denying what you wrote? You are too ashamed to admit your own words.
  Taj

Do you think Allah does not know your mistakes that you hide and charge others for what they are not responsible, but yourself?

[TAJ]

• you are loser * are you own words. Why are you denying what you wrote? You are too ashamed to admit your own words.
  Taj

Do you think Allah does not know your mistakes that you hide and charge others for what they are not responsible, but yourself?

What am I hiding?
Al Hamdu Le Ellah! I have quoted what I wrote and what you wrote in respose, with the exact date and time so that everyone here can witness it and check it by themselves. If you have the faintest faith in Allah you wouldn't have accused me of something that you are the one doing!

Taj

[drfazl]

What am I hiding?
Al Hamdu Le Ellah! I have quoted what I wrote and what you wrote in respose, with the exact date and time so that everyone here can witness it and check it by themselves. If you have the faintest faith in Allah you wouldn't have accused me of something that you are the one doing!
Taj

When you spoke of arabic is the only language with which you can understand quran and no translataion in any other language is good enough for arabic; that Allah chose arabic as the language for quran understanding - it is no way anywhere near to Faith in Allah; and is good enough dvivde that you caused between arabic and non- arabic speaking population. Allah does not like people claiming superiorism inany manner whatsoever!

If you say you do not calim arabic alone can make you understand quran and also admit any one can follow quran through the reading of translation in any other language too, as good as reading in arabic, I retract all my replies. Will you admit to this? i do not believe in cross-examining!

[TAJ]

What am I hiding?
Al Hamdu Le Ellah! I have quoted what I wrote and what you wrote in respose, with the exact date and time so that everyone here can witness it and check it by themselves. If you have the faintest faith in Allah you wouldn't have accused me of something that you are the one doing!
Taj

When you spoke of arabic is the only language with which you can understand quran and no translataion in any other language is good enough for arabic; that Allah chose arabic as the language for quran understanding - it is no way anywhere near to Faith in Allah; and is good enough dvivde that you caused between arabic and non- arabic speaking population. Allah does not like people claiming superiorism inany manner whatsoever!-

You have a serious problem with your comprehension!

I was telling you all through my posts not to deny the favor of the translators. Those people have spent most of their lives working on their studying and understanding of Arabic so that they give it to you on a silver plate.
Just ask Layth, Marie and Ayman, they are people of this forum, of how much time and effort they are spending to translate the Quran and they are Arabs still!!! So just imagine how much that effort is multiplied when the non-Arabs try to do this translation!
Are you thankful to any of them? Not at all! You are biting the hand that fed you all that knowledge!

Here are what I wrote in gratitude to those translators

and above all it is Allah who teaches Quran.
Not when you ditch the Arabic Quran! Or those who keep learning Arabic all their lives to translate the Quran for you! Very ungrateful of you!

Taj

Translations have no value.
This thread is not even about Arabic, yet you keep arguing about it, denying the favor of the translators. If translations have no value as you insist, then why are you using them!?

Taj

-If you say you do not calim arabic alone can make you understand quran and also admit any one can follow quran through the reading of translation in any other language too, as good as reading in arabic, I retract all my replies. Will you admit to this? i do not believe in cross-examining!

How can anyone in this world understand the Quran if

1. They don't understand Arabic
   or
2. If they don't understand any translation of the Quran?

I have been very clear about that. In order to understand the Quran you either need to understand Arabic or you can understand a translation of the Quran.

Look again into what I wrote in one of my previous posts on this thread

Praise Allah all you want, in ways that Allah taught us, whether in Arabic or in equivelant words (matching meaning) in other languages. Languages are the creation of Allah. But the Quran has words that no language other than Arabic can contain. Why is that? That is beyond our ability to know.

And just let me remind you of what I wrote at the top of page#3 of this thread

Translations have no value.
This thread is not even about Arabic, yet you keep arguing about it, denying the favor of the translators. If translations have no value as you insist, then why are you using them!?

Taj

Taj

[drfazl]

What am I hiding?
Al Hamdu Le Ellah! I have quoted what I wrote and what you wrote in respose, with the exact date and time so that everyone here can witness it and check it by themselves. If you have the faintest faith in Allah you wouldn't have accused me of something that you are the one doing!
Taj

Who could judge who has how much faith? Are you the measurer of faith? How much you feared Allah, when you measured my faith?

When you spoke of arabic is the only language with which you can understand quran and no translataion in any other language is good enough for arabic; that Allah chose arabic as the language for quran understanding - it is no way anywhere near to Faith in Allah; and is good enough dvivde that you caused between arabic and non- arabic speaking population. Allah does not like people claiming superiorism inany manner whatsoever!-

You have a serious problem with your comprehension!

By that if you mean to say any translatation is good enough to recite Quran, hats off to you! Great! No comments! But did you really mean that? Please say again! It will feed my comprehension for according to the measure you have for me, I have serious problem to comprehend.

I was telling you all through my posts not to deny the favor of the translators. Those people have spent most of their lives working on their studying and understanding of Arabic so that they give it to you on a silver plate.

Still you maintain the same problem of mixing your dictionary quran and Allah's Wisdomful Quran. I only say your dictionary oriented translation however accurate it shall never serve the purpose, to take you nearer to Allah, unless you turn to HIM for comprehension. Seek with HIM "O Lord, Increase my comprehension/understanding, for Thou sayeth Quran is for the people who ponder/understand/and who thou favor, for their sincere turning towards thou and that they are not arrogant with their limited knowledge, which thou had allowed them as only a test."

Just ask Layth, Marie and Ayman, they are people of this forum, of how much time and effort they are spending to translate the Quran and they are Arabs still!!! So just imagine how much that effort is multiplied when the non-Arabs try to do this translation!

Are you thankful to any of them? Not at all! You are biting the hand that fed you all that knowledge!

I have my gratitude to Allah in full. For I believe none but Allah. Is your pride affected by it? This apart, I have never mentioned any of the above people accountable for disrespect. Did I? "My respect to all humans alike" need not be questioned by you since all people have to live as a single society. It is Allah's command and He had made the believers as best examples. These believers could be among Christians, jews, sabiyeen etc. I have respect for all.

Here are what I wrote in gratitude to those translators

and above all it is Allah who teaches Quran.
Not when you ditch the Arabic Quran! Or those who keep learning Arabic all their lives to translate the Quran for you! Very ungrateful of you!

Taj

I never heard you mentioning any names. My respect for all humans is alike. For Allah says "O ye who believe! Let not a folk look down upon a folk who may be better than they are!" Do you mind still?

Translations have no value.
This thread is not even about Arabic, yet you keep arguing about it, denying the favor of the translators. If translations have no value as you insist, then why are you using them!?
Taj

If at all there is a favor, it must be from Allah; the translators do their intended work for the sake of Allah and that they shall never do it for my sake; they do not even know who i am; with Allah is their recompense for any good that they did. Who am I to garland any one for their worth; Allah is most trust worthy of all and He is the Best of judges!

If translations have no value as you insist, then why are you using them!? It is only to remind myself though not others, through discussions using the translations that human language excellence shall never be the guidance and it is only with Allah, His ayats are. He reveals the ayats to who He wishes, and that the translations can only frame up sentences but they shall not reveal the ayats, for, the ayats are SIGNS of Allah.

Please ponder this I am using a translation, but what for? To look up to Allah for the ayats for conclusion! Not for further translations and sentences formation.
006.149
Say - For Allah's is the final argument - Had He willed He could indeed have guided all of you.
006.088
This is the guidance of Allah He giveth that guidance to whom He pleaseth, of His worshippers.

The above is someone's simple translation I use here. No one needs to toil hard for a translation. Please tell me, who shall you turn to, for guidance. Translation has no guidance in it. But the ayats/revelations are with allah alone for guidance.

-If you say you do not claim arabic alone can make you understand quran and also admit any one can follow quran through the reading of translation in any other language too, as good as reading in arabic, I retract all my replies. Will you admit to this? i do not believe in cross-examining!

How can anyone in this world understand the Quran if

1. They don't understand Arabic
   or
2. If they don't understand any translation of the Quran?

I have been very clear about that. In order to understand the Quran you either need to understand Arabic or you can understand a translation of the Quran.

I am ready for debate on this! Let us take this subject in to a separate topic for discussion so that others could see. I denounce translations as perfect and they are of any use as a guide and no way translations Guide you. I do not start the discussion! I want you to start this discussion in consultation with the admins.

Look again into what I wrote in one of my previous posts on this thread

Praise Allah all you want, in ways that Allah taught us, whether in Arabic or in equivelant words (matching meaning) in other languages. Languages are the creation of Allah. But the Quran has words that no language other than Arabic can contain. Why is that? That is beyond our ability to know.

"other than Arabic can contain"
That is a very serious misappropriation/miscomprehension. you should have said " Including arabic"

[TAJ]

Here are what I wrote in gratitude to those translators
Just ask Layth, Marie and Ayman, they are people of this forum, of how much time and effort they are spending to translate the Quran and they are Arabs still!!! So just imagine how much that effort is multiplied when the non-Arabs try to do this translation!

I never heard you mentioning any names.

Don't Layth, Marie and Ayman look like names to you? And I am sorry that I didn't mention Brs. Shuaib, Someone, Sabo and others that I can't at this moment recall their names.

Translations have no value.
This thread is not even about Arabic, yet you keep arguing about it, denying the favor of the translators. If translations have no value as you insist, then why are you using them!?
Taj
If at all there is a favor, it must be from Allah; the translators do their intended work for the sake of Allah and that they shall never do it for my sake; they do not even know who i am; with Allah is their recompense for any good that they did. Who am I to garland any one for their worth; Allah is most trust worthy of all and He is the Best of judges!

I am sure that those dedicated translators didnot/do not look for a Jazaa'an or a Shukoora from people, certainly not. They don't need it. They get their satisfaction from Allah's Blessings.
I am talking about the people at the receiving end, people like you, who got it the easy way the Quran readily translated. How can you be so ungrateful to them?
We say in Arabic "He doesn't thank Allah, he who doesn't thank others!"

If translations have no value as you insist, then why are you using them!?
It is only to remind myself though not others, through discussions using the translations that human language excellence shall never be the guidance and it is only with Allah, His ayats are. He reveals the ayats to who He wishes, and that the translations can only frame up sentences but they shall not reveal the ayats, for, the ayats are SIGNS of Allah.

Did I mention anything about Guidance!? Inna Le Ellah!

The above is someone's simple translation I use here. No one needs to toil hard for a translation.

Again and again you are denying the hard work of the translators!

Please tell me, who shall you turn to, for guidance. Translation has no guidance in it. But the ayats/revelations are with allah alone for guidance.

Why can't you stick to the point!?

-If you say you do not claim arabic alone can make you understand quran and also admit any one can follow quran through the reading of translation in any other language too, as good as reading in arabic, I retract all my replies. Will you admit to this? i do not believe in cross-examining!

How can anyone in this world understand the Quran if

1. They don't understand Arabic
   or
2. If they don't understand any translation of the Quran?

I have been very clear about that. In order to understand the Quran you either need to understand Arabic or you can understand a translation of the Quran.

I am ready for debate on this! Let us take this subject in to a separate topic for discussion so that others could see. I denounce translations as perfect and they are of any use as a guide and no way translations Guide you. I do not start the discussion! I want you to start this discussion in consultation with the admins.

And why start another thread when there are many already! Just take a look at the Quranic Study section and if you have any comments you can post it there, among the giant translators
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2670&start=0
Why discuss Arabic here, where it does not belong to this thread, instead of discussing it in the right place, among the translators themselves!!!???

Look again into what I wrote in one of my previous posts on this thread

Praise Allah all you want, in ways that Allah taught us, whether in Arabic or in equivelant words (matching meaning) in other languages. Languages are the creation of Allah. But the Quran has words that no language other than Arabic can contain. Why is that? That is beyond our ability to know.

"other than Arabic can contain"
That is a very serious misappropriation/miscomprehension. you should have said "Including arabic"

Allah did not speak in the Quran with words that the Arabs did not know or understand. The words of the Quran are in clear Arabic tongue. The Arabic DID contain those words. Those words were not strange for the Arabs, and that is a fact.

Taj