what exactly is the problem with Atheism?
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I have a close family member, who was born into a sunni family but is now an Atheist. He says that no matter how hard he may try, he just cannot believe that any deities exist. I find it very unfair, that a loving person with very high moral standards, who just can't believe in a deity, should be punished with hell like almost all religions preach.
Most religions consider atheists to be cursed infidels, no matter how loving and high morals the atheist may posses he is still doomed to hell by most religions. Can we find any support of it in the Quran? And what if a person just CANT believe in God?
Peace
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So lets say its possible that a God exists, He created you, sustained you etc, there are some things you can't quite fathom but its possible that this Creator exists, as the Quran states who does more wrong that one who would completely outrightly reject this? Kaffir can often translate to ungrateful and I think its not a simple term, I don't you can simply label someone a kaffir simply because they don't believe yet. It can be someone who disbelieves with a complete rejection and possibly even ungratefulness at any POTENTIAL IDEA of a Creator because they actually want to follow whatever suits them. They only accept morals that a culture sets up but reject anything that could relate to God. i.e. they wouldn't even care if God existed.
Like when it mentions that on the Day of Judgement, there are people who say let us go back we'll do good, but it is only a lie - they will do the same thing even though they know God existed. Like when it says that Iblis rejected what God asked of Him, when God simply asks why did you not do what I asked, Iblis states that its essentially because of racism. He knew God existed but look at the parable. There is an important lesson here for people who actually want to try to understand the Quran for what it is.
I would also like to know what your close family member thinks of the current state of the world. He believes there is no final justice of any sort. Given the justice system itself sometimes commits terrible errors and innocent people have been punished etc, where does he think justice comes from and the state of the world. What do high morals say about the world we live in today and given that all the people in the world who have seen everything destroyed and have had their lives stolen - what are the beliefs on this? Surely, one of the most important goals for YOLO - You only live once, is to ensure as many people are possible can live for as long as possible.
I guess that's what science is doing with all the latest medical studies, apart from the fact through modern science we have developed the most despicable weapons and ways to kill people. Again, like religion it is used in this way by humans. So I wonder about the moral position in relation to that.
This could be argued as a problem of justice just like some say there is a problem of evil. I find a lot of the arguments people level at theism can be levelled straight back at atheism.
My point would also be, why atheism then, why not a "tentative" sort of theism because isn't the point supposed to be about a lack of knowledge that God exists? If you start from, I have no knowledge God exists, so therefore I'm going to reject this idea, given that this is about God, it doesn't really fit together for me.
This post has ended up being quite a bit longer than I thought it would. I think I can anticipate your response from the last post of yours that I saw, as you seemed to say that we cannot know whether Muhammad existed even though we have the Quran but at the same time you believe in parts of the Quran. So my answer might not satisfy you as it partly draws upon the Quran.
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So lets say its possible that a God exists, He created you, sustained you etc, there are some things you can't quite fathom but its possible that this Creator exists, as the Quran states who does more wrong that one who would completely outrightly reject this? Kaffir can often translate to ungrateful and I think its not a simple term, I don't you can simply label someone a kaffir simply because they don't believe yet. It can be someone who disbelieves with a complete rejection and possibly even ungratefulness at any POTENTIAL IDEA of a Creator because they actually want to follow whatever suits them. They only accept morals that a culture sets up but reject anything that could relate to God. i.e. they wouldn't even care if God existed.
Like when it mentions that on the Day of Judgement, there are people who say let us go back we'll do good, but it is only a lie - they will do the same thing even though they know God existed. Like when it says that Iblis rejected what God asked of Him, when God simply asks why did you not do what I asked, Iblis states that its essentially because of racism. He knew God existed but look at the parable. There is an important lesson here for people who actually want to try to understand the Quran for what it is.
I would also like to know what your close family member thinks of the current state of the world. He believes there is no final justice of any sort. Given the justice system itself sometimes commits terrible errors and innocent people have been punished etc, where does he think justice comes from and the state of the world. What do high morals say about the world we live in today and given that all the people in the world who have seen everything destroyed and have had their lives stolen - what are the beliefs on this? Surely, one of the most important goals for YOLO - You only live once, is to ensure as many people are possible can live for as long as possible.
I guess that's what science is doing with all the latest medical studies, apart from the fact through modern science we have developed the most despicable weapons and ways to kill people. Again, like religion it is used in this way by humans. So I wonder about the moral position in relation to that.
This could be argued as a problem of justice just like some say there is a problem of evil. I find a lot of the arguments people level at theism can be levelled straight back at atheism.
My point would also be, why atheism then, why not a "tentative" sort of theism because isn't the point supposed to be about a lack of knowledge that God exists? If you start from, I have no knowledge God exists, so therefore I'm going to reject this idea, given that this is about God, it doesn't really fit together for me.
This post has ended up being quite a bit longer than I thought it would. I think I can anticipate your response from the last post of yours that I saw, as you seemed to say that we cannot know whether Muhammad existed even though we have the Quran but at the same time you believe in parts of the Quran. So my answer might not satisfy you as it partly draws upon the Quran.
Salaam Maha,
I can no longer modify this post. But I wrote it shortly after I wrote another post of yours in which I was feeling quite strongly about matters. I apologise if my tone comes across as abrupt or a bit too aggressive in any way. I have received a reply the other thread by another user about this after realising my error. So in order to avoid any long winded discussion about how I may have come across - I already realise this and have tried to address it. Please overlook this aspect of my post if you wish to respond.
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Peace
Atheism in all contexts is seldom the belief in the Non-Existence of God, but it is the hatred and disgust towards religion. It takes philosophical arguments NOT to believe in God, which only well versed philosophers can do understand. What he/she/anyone not believes is the religious Drama and Charlatans.
Quran does not requires Rituals and All to redeem ourselves, simply belief in God and the Last Day and Good Deeds, for any religions.
In fact, many people can IN FACT NOT SEPARATE rituals and religion from GOD are atheists, they are NOT infact atheists, but A(Religion, Ritual, Fundamentalism, Misogyny, Violent)ists. Coz God's existence is evident from Nature and Philosophy, its no point NOT believing.
Hope I was Clear Enough
Peace
Harun -
I have a close family member, who was born into a sunni family but is now an Atheist. He says that no matter how hard he may try, he just cannot believe that any deities exist. I find it very unfair, that a loving person with very high moral standards, who just can't believe in a deity, should be punished with hell like almost all religions preach.
Most religions consider atheists to be cursed infidels, no matter how loving and high morals the atheist may posses he is still doomed to hell by most religions. Can we find any support of it in the Quran? And what if a person just CANT believe in God?
Peace
Well even I don't believe that Deities exist.. )
Atheism by itself is a religion.
Atheism propose a 'dogma' (opinion which should not be questioned) that God (GreekTheos) does not exist.
And just like other religion, Atheists usually impose those belief on other people who disagree with them.
A great example of this in history are the Leninist of Russia during the Soviet period.Those who reject certain people conception of Deity/Deities cannot be judged as "Atheist".
If that's the case then- Abraham was an Atheist... of Mesopotamian Gods..
- Muhammad was an Atheist.. of Arabian Gods..
- Jesus was an Atheist.. of the Jewish Rabbi's conception of YHVH..
Another example of a 'good atheist' is Siddharta Ghautama (a.k.a The Buddha).
He doesn't believe in the deities, well at least in his society conception of deities.
Instead he teaches on how 'the universe' works, and put forward certain deeds and attitude (Dharma) to live up the best of life.
And attain the 'perfect death' which is a 'liberating death' (Moksha), where the soul will be united in harmony with the universe. (State of Nirvana).It's your deed that count and not your belief..
Salam / Peace
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So lets say its possible that a God exists, He created you, sustained you etc, there are some things you can't quite fathom but its possible that this Creator exists, as the Quran states who does more wrong that one who would completely outrightly reject this? Kaffir can often translate to ungrateful and I think its not a simple term, I don't you can simply label someone a kaffir simply because they don't believe yet. It can be someone who disbelieves with a complete rejection and possibly even ungratefulness at any POTENTIAL IDEA of a Creator because they actually want to follow whatever suits them. They only accept morals that a culture sets up but reject anything that could relate to God. i.e. they wouldn't even care if God existed.
Like when it mentions that on the Day of Judgement, there are people who say let us go back we'll do good, but it is only a lie - they will do the same thing even though they know God existed. Like when it says that Iblis rejected what God asked of Him, when God simply asks why did you not do what I asked, Iblis states that its essentially because of racism. He knew God existed but look at the parable. There is an important lesson here for people who actually want to try to understand the Quran for what it is.
I would also like to know what your close family member thinks of the current state of the world. He believes there is no final justice of any sort. Given the justice system itself sometimes commits terrible errors and innocent people have been punished etc, where does he think justice comes from and the state of the world. What do high morals say about the world we live in today and given that all the people in the world who have seen everything destroyed and have had their lives stolen - what are the beliefs on this? Surely, one of the most important goals for YOLO - You only live once, is to ensure as many people are possible can live for as long as possible.
I guess that's what science is doing with all the latest medical studies, apart from the fact through modern science we have developed the most despicable weapons and ways to kill people. Again, like religion it is used in this way by humans. So I wonder about the moral position in relation to that.
This could be argued as a problem of justice just like some say there is a problem of evil. I find a lot of the arguments people level at theism can be levelled straight back at atheism.
My point would also be, why atheism then, why not a "tentative" sort of theism because isn't the point supposed to be about a lack of knowledge that God exists? If you start from, I have no knowledge God exists, so therefore I'm going to reject this idea, given that this is about God, it doesn't really fit together for me.
This post has ended up being quite a bit longer than I thought it would. I think I can anticipate your response from the last post of yours that I saw, as you seemed to say that we cannot know whether Muhammad existed even though we have the Quran but at the same time you believe in parts of the Quran. So my answer might not satisfy you as it partly draws upon the Quran.
I would like to respectfully add a post because posts cannot be edited after a certain amount of time and posts also can't be deleted.
There was a typo in this post that came across that I should mention that was a typo.
There is also something else that I would briefly clarify.
I don't log into this forum much at all, and I no longer have a Quran only approach. I would simply say I follow Islam and the Quran, but not a Quran-only approach. I wanted to add this post respectfully for clarification.
I had received advice before from a moderator when I asked about this, about posts can't be edited or deleted, but to add a new post even if the thread is older.
The post is from many years ago. It's that I happened to come across the typo when I did a search on the forum. This came across as a typo that I should mention was a typo.
"Like when it says that Iblis rejected what God asked of Him, when God simply asks why did you not do what I asked, Iblis states that its essentially because of racism."
What I meant "Like when it says that Iblis rejected what God asked of him, when God simply asks why did you not do what I asked, Iblis states that its essentially because of racism."
I meant the lowercase "him" in the sentence I have placed in quotation marks.
When I mentioned about modern science creating weapons, I meant in weapons science, the bombs used in airstrikes and other weapons that kill innocent people and cause a lot of devastation for the area.
I mentioned this respectfully as a clarification.
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If a person claims not to believe in a God but is a very moral person and does good deeds then it would be fair to say they reject at least one part of The Quran (albeit a very important part, i.e. monotheism). So it could be argued they follow Quran 80% (or whatever %). Point is that's not so bad. They are more than halfway there. e.g. see www.AreYouMuslim.com
I would like to know their biggest objections to a Creator/God, forgetting about religion for a moment. From my experience their logic/reasons/evidence is often weak. It would be more accurate to say one is agnostic in most of these cases.
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What is a moral person?
Where do moral laws originate from? An original law giver perhaps?
There are also natural laws, Who is the law maker/giver?
Quote
They derive from an ideal of universal divine law that Christianity drew from the Judaic materials from which it sprang. Christianity, to be sure, drew from the ancient Greeks as well. Its identification of universal divine laws with the laws of nature, for instance, comes from the Stoics, chiefly through Cicero (106–43 BC). But the ideas in Christianity that yielded deontological conceptions are found in its understanding of divine laws as the laws of a supreme ruler that bind his subjects to obey him in the way that a covenant with him would bind them. These juristic ideas, which originated in Mosaic law, are the original frame for deontological conceptions.
Paul's statement in Romans “When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse and perhaps excuse them.”Is there a contradiction in being a moral person and being an atheist at the same time?
Or one can claim these laws are written in our heart and conscience- Instinct-.
Fitrata Allah LLati Fatara Al Nass ...
Peace,
