Hi there :)

check1

Salaam,

No problem, Insha'Allah my posts help in some way. It's natural to feel this way - after a feeling of loss we try to understand what's happened and to me it sounds like you're grieving. I'm really sorry - there are some challenges in this life but who knows what other good may come in the end of this. Like you said with one loss, that of your brother, you found the greatest blessing and have Allah (swt) who created you and your brother and everything we love and know. Sometimes, people say that with the loss of something may Allah (swt) bring about another blessing and replace what we have lost. This may have already happened or is yet to happen. With hardship there is ease and patience is a gift from Allah (swt) as it says in the Noble Quran. So please believe God when He says He will help you. At first it may seem hard putting trust in God, but once you do you'll realise it is the most natural thing you can do. Ask Him to help you put trust Him if you need to, He's always near and I know He makes things easier all the time. He'll definitely alleviate the burden you may feel as He burdens no soul with more than it has strength to bear.

I personally don't say things are form the devil or not. I'm a bit short on time right now so I can't check the verse but from what I recall there is a verse that states that Allah (swt) knows what our own souls suggest to us. At the same time we are told not to forget our own souls, so I don't think this means that our souls are sort of "against us", it seems metaphorical. I don't actually know exactly what Shaytan is. I'm still working through it and tbh I should be spending more time on that than debating with atheists! I don't think it is Iblis, interestingly I came across a verse in the Abdel Haleem translation that said Satan was right in his opinion of those who continuously rejected their Creator without remorse. I have the verse on hand - 3420 I thought if it actually is Shaytan that must mean that it's Iblis. So I checked the transliteration but it says Iblis in there not Shaytan. The fact that this is what happens in translation but the transliteration remains I think in itself is a very important point, but that's going a bit off topic. As far as I recall, Iblis is never named Shaytan. And some say Shaytan is like our ego. While I agree ego is a problem for us and something we can all overcome, I wonder if Shaytan is that or something else. If that part about what our own souls whisper to us is true, does that mean there are two things that whisper to us? Or is there a metaphor being used here that we are overlooking? Anyway, my point is that this might not just be from Shaytan but from human beings ourselves. So I prefer to stick to the idea that the hadith are man made.

You are right in that modern Islam focuses on the hadith. Not everyone following Hadith is the same, some do it carefully and only follow something that happens to work for them on a personal level but they know the Quran is the actual word of God. In terms of Salafis or extremism, in terms of demonising them, I think its a case of they are still human beings and I don't want to end up being like them. They may just be misguided as in the case of your brother or they may not. We should clearly oppose them, I think that's enough. Could you clarify what demonising them would mean in practice? Or maybe there is another word you would use?

I think mostly through the Quran if people actually follow it they will be balanced and realise that extremism is the antithesis of Islam. If think once you really understand the Quran, you realise its message was simply the Reminder that you had with you as Allah (swt) bestows us all with knowledge once we ask for it. The core of the teaching is peace, even if that seems like an oft-repeated phrase. However, some fundamentalism can exist among even Quran only Muslims although maybe not as bad at the extremists. The Quran constantly urges us to give the reminder and then leave people to whatever it is. I think if we cannot accept Hadith we should also be sure we cannot accept any approach that focuses on fighting people. We should do this for Allah and for ourselves. I've seen some people who have an approach on fighting - not really here but elsewhere - and it just seems like they want to focus on the Quran because it allows them to do this. I could be wrong on that, but it can seem that way.

May Allah (swt) bless you and all those who seek Him.

Supportwarnotpeace, you make some great points. I think right now, the rawness of my emotions is keeping me from thinking as analytically as you. There is an anger inside of me that seems to only be extinguished (though briefly) through placing blame on someone and trying to simplify a rather complex issue. Like I mentioned before, I know I shouldn't hold anger within me, I know I shouldn't judge, and I know I shouldn't promote hate. Right now though, I just don't know HOW to do that. It's a struggle that I'm praying God will help me resolve. It's probably going to take some time.

In regards to the shaytaan/iblis concept you pointed out, I have not contemplated it as extensively as you have. I'm actually really glad you mentioned it though. I may have too simple of an interpretation of the good and bad of the world. At this point in my faith, it seems I feel like all the good (as it is defined in the Quran) comes from God, and all the bad comes from the devil. I suppose that may be too elementary of a mindset. I'm not really sure. Maybe that is why so many things don't make sense to me. For example, what I constantly struggle to understand is, if everything happens for a reason and everything is run by God, then where does the devil come in? How do we distinguish between the things that happen from the devil and the things that happen from God? You know? Is it just like... if we do everything that we believe God would want us to do, we can rest assured that He will help us? and we don't have to worry about the devil? Doesn't the devil try to impact us all the time? Sometimes bad things that are associated with the devil happen to good people... is God running that too? This really confuses me. Your explanation of what shaytaan could be further increases my confusion.

And in response to your question about demonizing individuals in practice, I don't think I meant "demonizing" so much as an action as I did a mindset. But, after reading your post, it seems our definitions of "demon" and "shaytaan" and "iblis" are different. So, I'm not really sure how to go about furthering discussion on this topic...

I hope this post made sense.

Jafar

Supportwarnotpeace, you make some great points. I think right now, the rawness of my emotions is keeping me from thinking as analytically as you. There is an anger inside of me that seems to only be extinguished (though briefly) through placing blame on someone and trying to simplify a rather complex issue. Like I mentioned before, I know I shouldn't hold anger within me, I know I shouldn't judge, and I know I shouldn't promote hate. Right now though, I just don't know HOW to do that. It's a struggle that I'm praying God will help me resolve. It's probably going to take some time.

"In this world. Hate never yet dispelled hate."
"Only love dispels hate."
"This is the law, Ancient and inexhaustible."
?A wise man, recognizing that the world is but an illusion, does not act as if it is real, so he escapes the suffering.?
-- Siddharta Gautama

oneandonly

Salaam oneandonly,

Thanks for your response. Yes, I harbor much of the same worries as you do. Another major concern I'm sure has crossed your mind is, if you marry someone who does not share your religious beliefs, how will you be able to raise your kids? Isn't it a parent's responsibility to expose the child to the correct religion? If the child has a parent with one belief and another parent with a completely separate belief, will the child not get confused? I've got lots of friends who have become atheists because of the confusion of being brought up by parents of different religions. It's going to be tough to find someone who you are compatible with and who follows the Quran alone. But, like you, there is nothing I can do but pray to God for help. Only He can help us, right? It's hard to completely put all your trust in God. I think that is an ability that strengthens over time. But, God willing, everything will work out for the better so long as we do our best to follow His path. It has to, right?

Peace and all the best to you.

Salam Check1,

Yes indeed. in fact praying to Allah sincerely and hoping for the best is the only thing we can.

I also have same belief as you towards hadith that i am strongly against it. In fact i believe that so ncalled authentic Hadiths are the only reason of so many miseries in the current world. Another great thing I have experienced is reading Quran. personally, I wouldn't want to go very deep and try to find meaning and do research for each and every single words written in Quran. if we do that, are we not doing the same thing who wrote different Hadiths trying to explain Quran? I strongly believe, Quran teaches us a way of life and it is extremely easy to understand using our intellect. Once we understand the whole concept of Quran and its message, i do not think its necessary to go into detailed explanation of every words either in Arabic or English. I have always been reading English translation and never found difficult to understand no matter who translated it.

Do you like reading books? As you said you have this anger and upset feeling inside you due to your brother's situation, I would suggest you to read the book I have mentioned earlier (The power by Rhonda Byrne). It may sound like I am doing advert for the book but not really, I am telling you because I had the same feeling of anger, worry, upset kind of things in my brain and this book helped me alot to realize what i was missing by inviting all this kind of feelings within me.

May God Keep us in the right path always.

Man_of_Faith

Salaam,

I believe Ibliss is Shaytan based on the context. But he is no physical being in this world, he is like an evil spirit, being able to manipulate the minds of people here and even pretty much take control over lesser minds. Having a good relation with God will protect one from all (or most) of the Satanic influences.

I believe there is only one demon and that is Shaytan, and he can possess people like traditional stories about demons. Not like traditional stories, but possessed people will be utterly evil and act strange, very different from the person they used to be. Perhaps Hitler was possessed by Shaytan and that was why so many people were able to be under his manipulative leadership. There are many examples in the past.

Shaytan can possess loads of poor souls at once, he is powerful with those who are not protected by the Lord. Weaker souls not in close relationship with God are unfortunately easy prey for Shaytan. I believe that Shaytan can have partial control over a human which will turn into a full possession if not the person will fend Shaytan off by various means or by protection from God.

Note that the individual strength of a human soul will determine how hard it is for Shaytan to penetrate the defenses of it, but once done this person will run Shaytan' s business more and more.

Also note that the amount of people who are partially afflicted by Shaytan or fully possessed by Shaytan is overwhelming. It is scary to even think about. So many minds are unshielded and susceptible.

I also think Shaytan can possess a person in close proximity of a righteous person to break this person down to doubt his belief, meaning Shaytan can take ways around strong persons to get them through people in their surroundings. It has happened to me, but it seems I turned out victorious and Shaytan departed from the possessed one, with help from God.

Ibliss was probably a noble name in God?s domain, but since he was expelled he was renamed Shaytan. We cannot fully understand the whole background since it is something we do not know. He probably lost his physical being and is just an evil spirit now, opposite from the Holy Spirit.

Thank you for my interpretation of the Truth and hope it is useful reading. Please meditate upon it and do not just try to refute it by finding errors in it.

God bless you

supportpeacenotwar

Supportwarnotpeace, you make some great points.

Great typo. I first used this username after I felt angry at the images and information coming out of Wikileaks about how many in the army mercilessly killed civilians and there was a culture of doing whatever they wanted. I already was aware, I'd heard of "shooting at the landscape". It sickens me, but we have to leave anger and I trust in Allah's (swt) promise and He never fails in His promise.

I think right now, the rawness of my emotions is keeping me from thinking as analytically as you. There is an anger inside of me that seems to only be extinguished (though briefly) through placing blame on someone and trying to simplify a rather complex issue. Like I mentioned before, I know I shouldn't hold anger within me, I know I shouldn't judge, and I know I shouldn't promote hate. Right now though, I just don't know HOW to do that. It's a struggle that I'm praying God will help me resolve. It's probably going to take some time.

In regards to the shaytaan/iblis concept you pointed out, I have not contemplated it as extensively as you have. I'm actually really glad you mentioned it though. I may have too simple of an interpretation of the good and bad of the world. At this point in my faith, it seems I feel like all the good (as it is defined in the Quran) comes from God, and all the bad comes from the devil. I suppose that may be too elementary of a mindset. I'm not really sure. Maybe that is why so many things don't make sense to me. For example, what I constantly struggle to understand is, if everything happens for a reason and everything is run by God, then where does the devil come in? How do we distinguish between the things that happen from the devil and the things that happen from God? You know? Is it just like... if we do everything that we believe God would want us to do, we can rest assured that He will help us? and we don't have to worry about the devil? Doesn't the devil try to impact us all the time? Sometimes bad things that are associated with the devil happen to good people... is God running that too? This really confuses me. Your explanation of what shaytaan could be further increases my confusion.

And in response to your question about demonizing individuals in practice, I don't think I meant "demonizing" so much as an action as I did a mindset. But, after reading your post, it seems our definitions of "demon" and "shaytaan" and "iblis" are different. So, I'm not really sure how to go about furthering discussion on this topic...

I hope this post made sense.

I think we may have reached the natural conclusion of our discussion then... in terms of the shaitan/iblis thing, I looked at it quite straightforwardly. It's how I look at the Quran and most things in like. I much prefer pragmatism and a practical way of doing things rather than overly complex "academic" formulations. They have their place, but when it comes to "real world" application, things are actually more simple than we think, I believe.

So as I'm still researching it myself, I wonder if the concept of Shaitan is not the way we typically understand it? Is it a type of environment or social condition, such as social malaise? Is it ego in a sense that ego is related to Shaitan but it not entirely Shaitan and its more than that? Something can be described as a Shaitan once it specifically decides to do evil and consider itself in a way that obstructs from the path of Allah (swt) but more than that - one that obstructs from the paths of peace that Allah (swt) guides towards. One that is at war with the world - so Iblis is possibly one Shaitan at war with humanity as man is made of clay and he is made of fire - but there is not necessarily THE shaytan.

Everything can be run by God, but look at the world God has allowed us to have some reign over things - that is part of the way things are run at this point in time. God has allowed this to be, given us an allotted time and then the Day of Judgement will occur. The devil comes in depending on how you understand the devil, from what I've read of the Quran, the devil is not a specific single being.

One way to distinguish what happens from the devil and what happens from God is 1. to use our reason that God gave us and consider whether it is good or not. If we aren't sure, why not leave it and simply ask God? Isn't God the source of knowledge?

We are helped whether or not we do the things God wants us to do. We may never do some of the things completely, God had not stopped sustaining you and not stopped Mercy. God helped all of us discover and come toward Islam before we even realised what this was. Did we have knowledge of it before this? Did we know how to get to the point we are now? No, it's a journey we're on, constantly guided by God, if we wish to take God's guidance. In terms of the other questions, not we don't have to worry about anything. We simply have to place trust in God. Who would be better to trust than God?

oneandonly