Sign of God
-
Salaam,
Does the Quran teach this? Nooo
In that case, misinterpretation through wishful thinking.
God bless you
-
Peace, Man of Faith.
Does the Quran teach this? Nooo
In that case, misinterpretation through wishful thinking.
Does the quran teach what? I already provided a reference to what the quran says...
We only know what the book says, and it clearly says to slay the idolators (Q. 95), chop of their heads and fingers (Q. 812), occupy their lands (Q. 2144), imprison them (Q. 473, 4), and commit many other atrocities!
And, if you're talking about in comparison to the concept taught by Mr. Fard in his Islamic school of thought, those concepts discussed in the quran are a lot more heinous than merely talking about beheading "devils" - the quran actually says this and much, much worse! At least Mr. Fard proposed the idea that, once those people were killed, there was no coming back for them; they were gone forever. The quran, on the other hand, says that Allah (God) will bring those 'guilty' victims of murder back from the dead, perhaps in a 'spiritual' body of some sort (depending on your interpretation), and viciously torture them for an eternity! According to most Islamic authorities, the torture of hell will be so horrendous that, although the quran discusses it in 'allegorical' ways, there's no way to sufficiently compare it to anything on Earth; it will be so intensely horrible and painful that we can't even fathom in our minds how utterly terrible it will actually be.
Yet, your concern is whether or not Fard taught the teachings of the quran? Tell me, sir - which set of teachings sound better to you? Both sets sound pretty horrible to me, but that's just my perspective. When viewed beside each other, though, there's literally no comparison. One book advises its small (but growing) organization of fundamentalist Muslims to kill four people. The other book commands its followers, which are generally composed of about 1/3 of the planet's population, to torture and kill millions (or even billions) of "infidels"; and then, after the 'righteous believers' are finished torturing and killing these infidels, God will resurrect them so that he can do some additional torturing of his own, this time more heinous and gruesome than can even be imagined. Oh, and did I mention that, when God does it for the second group, he plans on torturing those infidels forever? Yes, that's correct - they get the Energizer Bunny treatment the torture just keeps going and going and going and going, etc.
What do you think? How is the quran any better than the book written by Mr. Fard, which he claims was also authored by Allah?
Peace,
Ahmad
-
Salaam Ahmad,
Sorry, I do not interpret/ understand the Quran this way. No point arguing what I do not believe is true.
Either the Quran is contradicting itself, or your interpretation is faulty, or I am completely misguided. This is not the religion I embraced that you describe, if that is so, then the Quran is either corrupted or misinterpreted.
If the main idea behind Islam is a religion of peace, then your description makes it very evil and oppressive,quite the opposite of what the words wishes to describe it.
Note that I was a Believer before I stumbled upon the Quran and I was a Believer even if I knew the Bible had to be severely corrupted because of the nonsense I found when I read it. The least nonsense of them two I found in the Quran, but some gross elements I discovered happened to be due to misinterpretations in the case of the Quran.
If now the corrections of the gross elements happen to be due to wishful thinking, then even the Quran is distorted, but I will remain a Believer. It is not the scriptures that make me a Believer, it is that I perceive God?s presence in my life.
Like I hope you have understood, Ahmad Bilal, I try to be a quite rational and logical man, and I do not disregard your criticism of the Quran. It will not move my standing regarding God or the three basic commandments to believe in God, believe in eternal life and be righteous, it is probably the main idea of all present world religions too. I am not narrowing myself down to simply the traditional Islam, I am following God's religion, no matter the name of the religion.
Sometimes it is good that people like you exist, Ahmad, because you question everything and raise awareness of issues that are either due to misinterpretation, distortion or that the source is utterly fake.
I respect you, brother, no matter if you are a believer or non-Believer. I do not judge you and I do not affect your destiny. It would be sinful for me to wish you harm and I treat you as anyone else. Of course I respond accordingly if you humiliate me or mock me or anything similarly, but I respect you and I try to control myself if you provoke frustration in me. It is what my religion tells me to, to be peaceful.
I think, or hope, that my behavior is much better than many atheists, or other Believers. Otherwise I would be a bad Believer.
Please, dear Ahmad, do not put me in a stereotypical category for having my faith, as I do with you. Having belief in non-existence of a god is a faith too.
Peace
Salaam Ahmad,
Sorry, I do not interpret/ understand the Quran this way. No point arguing what I do not believe is true.
Either the Quran is contradicting itself, or your interpretation is faulty, or I am completely misguided. This is not the religion I embraced that you describe, if that is so, then the Quran is either corrupted or misinterpreted.
If the main idea behind Islam is a religion of peace, then your description makes it very evil and oppressive,quite the opposite of what the words wishes to describe it.
Note that I was a Believer before I stumbled upon the Quran and I was a Believer even if I knew the Bible had to be severely corrupted because of the nonsense I found when I read it. The least nonsense of them two I found in the Quran, but some gross elements I discovered happened to be due to misinterpretations in the case of the Quran.
If now the corrections of the gross elements happen to be due to wishful thinking, then even the Quran is distorted, but I will remain a Believer. It is not the scriptures that make me a Believer, it is that I perceive God?s presence in my life.
Like I hope you have understood, Ahmad Bilal, I try to be a quite rational and logical man, and I do not disregard your criticism of the Quran. It will not move my standing regarding God or the three basic commandments to believe in God, believe in eternal life and be righteous, it is probably the main idea of all present world religions too. I am not narrowing myself down to simply the traditional Islam, I am following God's religion, no matter the name of the religion.
Sometimes it is good that people like you exist, Ahmad, because you question everything and raise awareness of issues that are either due to misinterpretation, distortion or that the source is utterly fake.
I respect you, brother, no matter if you are a believer or non-Believer. I do not judge you and I do not affect your destiny. It would be sinful for me to wish you harm and I treat you as anyone else. Of course I respond accordingly if you humiliate me or mock me or anything similarly, but I respect you and I try to control myself if you provoke frustration in me. It is what my religion tells me to, to be peaceful.
I think, or hope, that my behavior is much better than many atheists, or other Believers. Otherwise I would be a bad Believer.
Please, dear Ahmad, do not put me in a stereotypical category for having my faith, as I do with you. Having belief in non-existence of a god is a faith too.
Peace
May God, or what you believe in, bless you
-
Peace, Man of Faith.
Does the quran teach what? I already provided a reference to what the quran says...
And, if you're talking about in comparison to the concept taught by Mr. Fard in his Islamic school of thought, those concepts discussed in the quran are a lot more heinous than merely talking about beheading "devils" - the quran actually says this and much, much worse! At least Mr. Fard proposed the idea that, once those people were killed, there was no coming back for them; they were gone forever. The quran, on the other hand, says that Allah (God) will bring those 'guilty' victims of murder back from the dead, perhaps in a 'spiritual' body of some sort (depending on your interpretation), and viciously torture them for an eternity! According to most Islamic authorities, the torture of hell will be so horrendous that, although the quran discusses it in 'allegorical' ways, there's no way to sufficiently compare it to anything on Earth; it will be so intensely horrible and painful that we can't even fathom in our minds how utterly terrible it will actually be.
Yet, your concern is whether or not Fard taught the teachings of the quran? Tell me, sir - which set of teachings sound better to you? Both sets sound pretty horrible to me, but that's just my perspective. When viewed beside each other, though, there's literally no comparison. One book advises its small (but growing) organization of fundamentalist Muslims to kill four people. The other book commands its followers, which are generally composed of about 1/3 of the planet's population, to torture and kill millions (or even billions) of "infidels"; and then, after the 'righteous believers' are finished torturing and killing these infidels, God will resurrect them so that he can do some additional torturing of his own, this time more heinous and gruesome than can even be imagined. Oh, and did I mention that, when God does it for the second group, he plans on torturing those infidels forever? Yes, that's correct - they get the Energizer Bunny treatment the torture just keeps going and going and going and going, etc.
What do you think? How is the quran any better than the book written by Mr. Fard, which he claims was also authored by Allah?
Peace,
Ahmad
Brother Salaam,
Quran translations are supposed to provide "an authentic point of reference from which to examine the biased stereotypes of Islam to which Westerners are habitually exposed." However, unfortunately, most of these translations have not fulfilled this function. They either fail to give a precise image of Islam, or give a negative distorted one, says Thomas Cleary, a non-Muslim Quran translator. So, lets try to decode the verse 9;5 as it should be.
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 95
Some words in Quran have more than one meaning depending upon how they are used. When we encounter a multi-meaning word, we select the proper meaning according to the context, forms, and common sense.
- Idolaters = Mushrikeens = one who associates others (people, words. things) with Allah, as explained in verse below
He has ordained for you of religion what He enjoined upon Noah and that which We have revealed to you, and what We enjoined upon Abraham and Moses and Jesus - to establish the religion and not be divided therein. Difficult for those who associate others with Allah is that to which you invite them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He wills and guides to Himself whoever turns back . 4213
And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. .....3103According to 4213
- the religion is the same what was enjoined on Noah, what has been revealed to us. And to Abraham and Moses and Jesus.
- And to establish religion and not be Divided in the religion.
- But it is difficult for those who associate others with Allah .
According to the 42;13 religion is same "Islam" from Noah onward and the follower of the Islam has been divided into sects, and these sects Associate others with Allah including saints, shrines, graves, taweez etc. Further confirmation in 3103 where Allah ask people that not to be divided. And ayat below explains why people divided into sects.
Mankind is one single nation (psychologically), and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace Guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For Allah guided whom He will to a path that is straight.2213
Naafs= psyche, self
And when Moses said to his people, "O my people, indeed you have wronged yourselves by your taking of the calf . So repent to your Creator and kill yourselves. That is best for you in the sight of your Creator." Then He accepted your repentance; indeed, He is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful. 254
According to the translation Moses ask his people to "Kill themselves first and than ask for repentance" it does not make any sense. lets replace Kill to Fight "Qatal" and yourself to your psyche "Nafus".
And when Moses said to his people, "O my people, indeed you have wronged your psyches/nafoos by your taking of the calf . So repent to your Creator and fight/kill with your psyche/yourselves. That is best for you in the sight of your Creator." Then He accepted your repentance; indeed, He is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful. 254
Why there is no physical killing because
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, after that, throughout the land, were transgressors. 352
To clarify psychological killing further
And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists/mushrakeen wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. 95
- Kill the Mushrakeen, than
- Capture them
- besiege them
Again, it does not make sense to capture dead people and ask them to repent and to pray as the verse discuss in the last part.
How can we associate others with Allah
Say the things that my Lord hath indeed forbidden are shameful deeds, whether open or secret; sins and trespasses against truth or reason; assigning of partners to Allah, for which He hath given no authority; and saying things about Allah of which ye have no knowledge. 733
A common practice of current day Muslim world that they associate things with Allah by hearsay or according to their cultural belief, you can find ample examples of this practice on this forum people justifying Allah with their own ideology without consulting Allah (Quran)/quoting Allah's ayats/verses accordingly.
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. 279
The practice of a Messenger
O Messenger, announce that which has been revealed to you from your Lord, and if you do not, then you have not conveyed His message. And Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the disbelieving people. 567
Therefore, it is our duty to read the book, understand it and proclaim it to people.
Indeed, He who imposed (farada) upon you the Qur'an will take you back to a place of return. Say, "My Lord is most knowing of who brings guidance and who is in clear error."2825
It should be noted that there are around 80,000 words in the Quran but the actual words are only around 2000. In principle, if you take out the repeated words, the total number of words in Quran may well be less than 2000. Allah has revealed His book which contains so few words. Accordingly, if a reader decides to learn only 10 new words everyday, he can understand the basic message of the Quran within a period of seven months! So it is indeed very easy to understand the Quran, provided one is willing to learn it.
And We have certainly made the Qur'an easy for remembrance, so is there any who will remember? 5414
Peace.
-
Peace, Awaal_Muslim.
I apologize for the extended delay in responding to your post... I'm not understanding the full basis of your post. Is there another way we should interpret the passage, which seemingly instruct people to 'kill the idolators'?
Peace,
Ahmad
-
Peace Ahmad,
Those verses must be misunderstood somehow. As far as my intuition tells it is since they oppress you and as self-defense. But I respect if you do not accept Quran as something from God.
Edit The verse you highlighted is interesting as it sounds contradictory to the general Message of the Quran, I mean a religion of peace. You do not think it has to do with the interpretation? You do not think this verse should be executed "if" parameter? If, for example, they act oppressive and violent?
Anyway, brother Ahmad, you know I regard Quran as a Message from God, but true Faith is not bound to a book, as you can see through my explanation in the other thread I wrote about religions. True Faith is in the heart and actions, the Karma.
And remember this book was written about 1400 years ago, do you not think the interpretation has become biased by religious zealots since then? You remember we are not agreeing whether verse 128 and 129 in chapter 9 were inserted later.
I will research more into this "contradictory" verse and see if I can find any explanation. Have you checked the context?
God bless you
-
Peace Ahmad,
I took a look at the context, which includes parts of chapter 8 and 9, and it seems like this was meant during a war situation, but because of a holy period they were agreeing on no violence. After 4 months the truce was over and they can fight again, unless the opponents yield or say they will not fight and rather seek your protection so that he can hear about God.
It is obvious by the context that is during a war situation, dear brother, and it is an encouragement to stand up for your rights.
The Quran tells you not to transgress if an opponent gives up or wants peace.
Please, do read the whole context carefully and with a less critical eye than usual and see that it does not tell a Believer to kill a disbeliever without provocation. If you read the verse without the context of the chapters, then surely you will interpret it as just kill them wherever you encounter them, but if you do as I said you will understand this is not the case.
The Quran has no prominent contradiction of any kind as far as I have understood. The main cause of contradiction is misinterpretation of the verses because of the age of the scripture and due to wishful thinking.
If you still want to compare this scripture with the one from that guy Mr. Fard then feel free to do so, but I do not. And my understanding is as I stated above.
I accept if you do not take the Quran as a divine scripture.
God bless you brother
-
Why do those who do not take the quran as a scripture from God always tend to choose the most negative or hateful interpretation of everything? Why aren't they just interested in the flora of different understandings and consider positive interpretations at least as valid as negative ones? Why this gravitation towards the negative? Is it due to the assume that the majority always interpret the quran correctly? Why this assumption? Why the assumption that the actual/real/original is the most negative? Smells like bias, and not like objectivity like it is often portrayed as. In general, I find the human being's attraction towards negativity quite interesting and typcal...
-
Peace zulf,
They want contradiction so that it is falsifiable. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you see it, the Quran is just usually misinterpreted due to the age of the scripture, and that one takes verses out of context. Sometimes you have to take several pages into account before deciding the exact meaning.
Up to this day, the Quran seems to be the most intact religious book with apparent words of God. I am however not treating Quran as an idol, meaning I cannot think without it, but of course I refer back to it for Wisdom and Knowledge.
I enjoy reading religious books from other religions, lately I have been looking into Zoroastrianism and it seems to point back at the same God as in the Ibrahimic religions. There are some myths about Zoroastrianism, this religion has like other ones become exposed to human inventions. It is not polytheistic.
The Zoroastrians lost their religious book some many years ago, the burning of Persepolis may have been a factor and the Islamic conquest later on.
Ahmad Bilal is nicer than people here may think if you get to know him a little. He has a quite critical eye though, but his mind is sharp. He thinks logically and rationally, as one should do. He searches for an answer here like everyone else. I have an understanding people may have a problem with his bluntness though.
I see the Quran as the most accurate (un)distorted word of God available today. And despite any claims that it has weaknesses it is still the most worthy "reading" of them all.
God bless you
-
Peace All,
We must be careful not to point fingers at non-believers when we ourselves are
engaging in the negative conversation as well. There are many ayats that warn us
about the pointlessness of such arguments because the non-believers are not
interested in conversion to Islam but simply want to share their doubts. We have
to believe God who has revealed revelations about non-believers in the Quran.635, 7146, 1099-101, 1331, 2781, and many more and finally sura 109.
If one feels the need to convince the non-believer that God is who he says he is,
be prepared to be disappointed.Surely, those who do not believe in GOD's revelations, GOD does not guide
them. They have incurred a painful retribution.Who are more evil than those who are reminded of their Lord's proofs,
then disregard them, without realizing what they are doing. Consequently, we
place shields on their hearts to prevent them from understanding it (the Quran),
and deafness in their ears. Thus, no matter what you do to guide them, they can
never ever be guided."a wise man and a fool were arguing in an alley when two friends happened to be
walking by and saw them, one of the friends asked the other, "which is the fool"
the other friend replied "I cannot tell the difference!I hope this is helpful
peace
-
Peace, Man of Faith.
It is obvious by the context that is during a war situation, dear brother, and it is an encouragement to stand up for your rights.
The Quran tells you not to transgress if an opponent gives up or wants peace.
Indeed, brother, I totally agree. I've read the Quran many times, and I know that this was referring to a wartime situation. My statement wasn't with regard to the Quran instructing Muslims to 'kill people'; rather, I was talking about the designation of these slain people AFTER death. Killing someone in self-defense may be necessary at times, in my opinion. However, the concept of these people being slain by the believers, and THEN being brought back to life y God and mercilessly tortured for an eternity, seems a bit extreme. That's all I was saying...
If you still want to compare this scripture with the one from that guy Mr. Fard then feel free to do so, but I do not. And my understanding is as I stated above.
For the record, I'm not saying that I agree with the notions suggested by Mr. Fard. If we look at the historical references for this, Fard actually stated that his words regarding that issue weren't meant to be taken literally; they were symbolic of the 'killing of the evil inside one's self', not killing other people. That's why I made the comparison. According to traditional Islamic clerics, the Quran is being LITERAL when it says that Allah (God) will bring unbelievers back to life and torture them indefinitely...
People alleged that Mr. Fard was being cruel and 'wicked' in (apparently) suggesting that his followers kill others. However, they believe that God is being 'righteous' when he suggests that people kill others, and that he'll bring them back to life to torture them for an eternity... Doesn't there seem to be a contradiction and double-standard here? Which person appears more 'righteous' and 'wicked' to you?
Peace,
Ahmad
-
Peace Ahmad,
I agree with you here. And I doubt the meaning of Quran is to be taken literally but rather allegorically concerning many factors. They will probably not be tortured but instead living under poor conditions or something like that. I cannot claim to know unless I would be lying.
Religious zealots during all ages and all religions are over-interpreting the passages of their religious books and take everything too literally and without using their brains and rather through wishful thinking, and also to suit their political agenda. Religion drives a lot of people crazy, it is hazardous for them. Still it is, like I said before, about making peace within your own soul that is the point with Islam and some other "religions" I know.
Like you like to say about yourself regarding rationality. They should try to be more rational.
God bless you
-
science and religion are many times incompatible
Peace.
Some thoughts on this issue i wish to share. I think scientists discover the truths on phenomena of nature by putting aside God into the picture just to avoid controversy. From religionists. Also realizing that the construction of meanings on the phenomenon change with time due to new findings using more powerful instruments, which can debunk old theories and understanding.On the other hand religionists tend to stick to ancient meanings on phenomena thinking that this is what God meant it to be. Religionists like to think they are guardians of God's words.
Scientists always view things from the perspective of man. Whereas, religionist always view things from the perspective of God. They always say Gods says this and God says that.....
Science has its way (methodology) of coming to a conclusion on the things being studied. As time goes by, men of science discovered that the methodology, reasoning and approaches is natural to their common sense.
Using common sense, they start to question common beliefs such as the existence of God using "common science." For those people with common science who care to study the Quran as it should be studied using common sense (with sincerity) will discover and arrive at the same truth on any phenomenon.
Why? God created phenomena as ayats (words). James Watson and Francis Crick said that all phenomena contain bits, information. From the Quran we know that all creations are in the form of informational beings. Thus, we are here to discover the truth, the true meanings of things, be it the word of the Quran or the word (information) embedded in the phenomena of nature. All around us and within us are information of Truth created for us to study and ponder as signs of Reality and the ultimate Reality, God, distinct from other information which are symbols of falsehood, satanic words.
How can we differentiate these two? The words of the Quran (symbolic writing in Arabic) refers to the words in creations. The common science people will see that religion (behavioral system) and science (physical system) is a natural way for us to learn about Reality and to live in this world.
I must always remember to approach and see things from the human mind.
-
Peace!
Nice post!On the other hand religionists tend to stick to ancient meanings on phenomena thinking that this is what God meant it to be. Religionists like to think they are guardians of God's words.
This is a problem IMHO. Letting one's mind get stuck in old habits, repeating old garbage. Also, anyone thinking they are the guardians of God's words is, IMO, highly arrogant, thinking that it needs protection and what not.
Scientists always view things from the perspective of man. Whereas, religionist always view things from the perspective of God. They always say Gods says this and God says that.....
I don't think religionists see things from the perspective of God at all. How could they ever? But I understand what you are saying. Actually, they just see things from their own perspective, that of their own ego and mind.
Science has its way (methodology) of coming to a conclusion on the things being studied. As time goes by, men of science discovered that the methodology, reasoning and approaches is natural to their common sense.
Science is great, as long as it doesn't claim things about stuff it cannot touch. When we use science as an excuse to say that there is not God in any form, then it is not science that speaks, but rather a person promoting his personal point of view which in turn is based on his capacity to see things...
-
I don't think religionists see things from the perspective of God at all. How could they ever? But I understand what you are saying. Actually, they just see things from their own perspective, that of their own ego and mind.
Peace Zulf.
Thanks. You understand well about my notion of religionists. They elevated themselves as guardians of God's system and consequently create and try to maintain a mess sectarian community. The general public has no freedom to discover on their own about God's system and unable to speak freely about their discoveries. Fortunately, the internet creates a challenge to this authoritarian system. We are now becoming an online community of seekers and followers to God's system according to Quran. -
Peace!
Nice post!
Science is great, as long as it doesn't claim things about stuff it cannot touch. When we use science as an excuse to say that there is not God in any form, then it is not science that speaks, but rather a person promoting his personal point of view which in turn is based on his capacity to see things...Agreed,
There are those who use one of God's gifts which we call science,
(which is a tool to understand what God has created) to support their atheistic beliefs,
while maintaining those beliefs from the outset, this is an attempt to give their views
veracity and authority, some are fooled by this tactic, while some are not,
In the end they are simply non-believers dressed as critical thinkers.peace
-
There are those who use one of God's gifts which we call science,
(which is a tool to understand what God has created) to support their atheistic beliefs,
while maintaining those beliefs from the outset, this is an attempt to give their views
veracity and authority, some are fooled by this tactic, while some are not,
In the end they are simply non-believers dressed as critical thinkers.Peace.
These people fail to acknowledge the limitless boundary of science, expanding quest for knowledge and changing philosophy and shifting of paradigm in science. -
Peace.
These people fail to acknowledge the limitless boundary of science, expanding quest for knowledge and changing philosophy and shifting of paradigm in science.Indeed.
However, I think we need to also try to see it from the point of view of an atheist. One can understand the reasoning, and an atheist's reasons are not faulty or ignorant... they are the only thing they can be. An atheist who is a scientist may be brilliant, but the point is that an atheist, as per my current understanding, works/lives/perceives/thinks purely and solely in the domain of the Intellect/Mind. The Intellect/Mind is a tool that can only be aware of the physical creation, which also includes energies and perhaps many things not yet measurable my science. BUT, the Intellect/Mind is not what we are. We are a soul/spirit/being/whatever which also has a Mind. But, if we only perceive with the mind/intellect/emotions then we can not fathom the existence of that which one may call God, because God, and other things, are out of the reach of the mind. The mind can only reason, think... not perceive. If we only perceive with our five senses, then we miss much. We only perceive with our physical body (5 senses), and reason about the impulses with the mind. But when the mind is let to dominate our perception, we cannot fathom the unseen. It is indeed a limited perspective. There is much to be said about the mind/intellect and it's role in the drama of life. The whole point is that we are not just our mind and what goes on in our heads...
Peace
-
Peace,
It was my philosophies about creation over a decade ago which made me draw the conclusion there had to be a Creator and that was when I was pretty much an atheist myself. I merely believed in spirits. My early belief was a bit like Star Wars, which I have abandoned now (although I tend to still use it as an allegory / analogy).
I have always tried to work through logic and reason, but no matter what I did I could not rule out that a Creator must be involved in evolution. It would be like the universe just exploded into existence in exact measures to form planets and stars and other bodies. Some planets could even support life, which seem to require oxygen to survive (most of them at least).
And I wondered how the heck could coincidence know what planet Earth needed in terms of material and then in perfect measures give it to the planet. Add to that the intelligent design / formula of the endless amounts of specimens. The probability is non-existent in my logic and ability to reason.
And I am coming from an atheist family and I got by no means any indoctrination to believe in God but was rather discouraged in my youth. My world was more or less based on science. I have always loved science and everything with technology and I love science-fiction (as you may have noticed, I also like the character Spock in Star Trek with all his talk about logic).
I am no traditional religious man. I realized that there has to be a Creator entity which is not bound by time or space and cannot be measured since this entity lacks features which can be detected by scientific equipment and methods. If you are above all creation you can surely also hide from detection. Sign of God is instead all creation itself and the heavy philosophical thinking required to even ponder the question about what happened in the beginning and before the beginning.
Another thought I had was from that I was taught that energy does not disappear. But traditional atheist belief is that we are born and we die. But what happens to the energy of the soul? For surely something so advanced and conscious has to be a form of energy. This gave me the inspiration that life has to be eternal, just that it leads elsewhere when we "die".
Bingo. I was a Believer without even opened the Bible or Quran ever in my life. And this was perhaps 15 years ago (I am 31 today). I still refused to open the Bible (I did not even know about Quran at that time) for several years to come due to traditional Christianity and its lame Jesus fixation as I thought at the time, for how could anyone believe in the story that God's son could die like a human to save mankind. How could God be a human on Earth I thought.
I softened up a bit with time when I got in contact with good Christians that showed the corruption of the church and I finally was persuaded to give the Bible a chance. I could quite immediately see that it was filled with strange nonsense though, but I choose to follow the best and ignore the rest. This was about 7 years ago. I still was friend of those Christians and I liked to discuss the good things of the Bible.
God seemed to have been walking along the beach with me all the way here and for that I am forever in debt to Him.
After I stopped drinking a summer, 2008 I think, things accelerated and I got promoted at work, all went above expectations and in 2009 I met exactly the wife I had prayed for in 2007. A woman who can push me to do things because I often lack motivation without someone who does the coaching.
Well, some of you know my problems with her, but that was probably part of the Trial. God removed my affliction and did something (I do not know what still) to her and she stopped being a nightmare. Now we only have the usual marital problems only
Anyway, she made me purchase a Quran in the winter of 2009, a basic one translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali and I could immediately see that this scripture was from God. After that I have learned some basic Arabic and bought/downloaded better translations and begun heavy research on religion. I swore an oath to God to be a man of Faith last year and His servant and that He may use me in any way He likes.
Now I live a blessed life following His footsteps (sunnah) and carrying out His commands. I am provided with whatever I need and I am content with that.
This all for being an atheist in the beginning who just dared to use logic and reason in controversial ways. Nice, huh?
And excuse me for all my rambling. Hope it was to any use for someone. "Follow the best and ignore the rest".
God bless you all and may the Light guide you
-
Peace, Man of Faith.
And I wondered how the heck could coincidence know what planet Earth needed in terms of material and then in perfect measures give it to the planet. Add to that the intelligent design / formula of the endless amounts of specimens. The probability is non-existent in my logic and ability to reason.
You need to study science, sir. Your assertion is totally outrageous... And who said anything about everything being due to "coincidence"? Scientists definitely don't claim this! Again, check out a science book, and perhaps your view will change.
Peace,
Ahmad