Meaning of Salaat in Surah Tauba
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Salaam,
Thanks for posting this thread, your questions echo my own. I also, currently, view salaat and zakaat as going further than their meanings in terms of the usual prayer and betterment. I need to look into this matter more before I can give an explanation. Something that comes to mind is that there is an 'essence' of the word salat and zakat and that this is what is being employed here and that this goes beyond what we often think of as prayer or betterment. I wouldn't say 95 does mean that Allah swt is stating that those who don't pray and perform charity/betterment are not harmed or left. In other places, the Quran states that we deal kindly and justly with those who have not driven us from our home or actively persecuted us - in terms of this context of battle and fighting. There isn't a condition there that they are believers 60 8 Previous verses before 95 also refer to treaties which may be important here.
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Salaam,
Thanks for posting this thread, your questions echo my own. I also, currently, view salaat and zakaat as going further than their meanings in terms of the usual prayer and betterment. I need to look into this matter more before I can give an explanation. Something that comes to mind is that there is an 'essence' of the word salat and zakat and that this is what is being employed here and that this goes beyond what we often think of as prayer or betterment. I wouldn't say 95 does mean that Allah swt is stating that those who don't pray and perform charity/betterment are not harmed or left. In other places, the Quran states that we deal kindly and justly with those who have not driven us from our home or actively persecuted us - in terms of this context of battle and fighting. There isn't a condition there that they are believers 60 8 Previous verses before 95 also refer to treaties which may be important here.
There's a double negative that means the point could do with a little more clarification. What I meant was I would say that 95 suggests that anyone who is a disbeliever - or classifies themselves that way - does not need to pray etc in order to be left alone. i.e. salat in these verses appears to suggest something else. I am using terms like "suggest" as, with quite a few things in the Quran, I am still developing ideas as I learn and contemplate. I think I was trying to answer the question directly and that resulted in one too many negatives.
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Assalamo alaikum,
The first condition is
Translation of perfect verb in Jussive state as verb of condition by English word "repent" is giving problem only because its meanings are restrictively perceived as recognizing the wrong in something and be sorry about it. But the true meanings here are "to feel regret about a sin or past actions and change your ways or habits". The discourse is about the polytheists. The verb signifies returning from polytheism to monotheism. And then are the two physical acts which demonstrate the state of having returned to monotheism and be the associates of Deen-Islam.
Lane has also this entry
The time of returning from the belief in a plurality of gods. (A.) A poet says,
?? ;
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Assalamo alaikum,
The first condition is
Translation of perfect verb in Jussive state as verb of condition by English word "repent" is giving problem only because its meanings are restrictively perceived as recognizing the wrong in something and be sorry about it. But the true meanings here are "to feel regret about a sin or past actions and change your ways or habits". The discourse is about the polytheists. The verb signifies returning from polytheism to monotheism. And then are the two physical acts which demonstrate the state of having returned to monotheism and be the associates of Deen-Islam.
Lane has also this entry
The time of returning from the belief in a plurality of gods. (A.) A poet says,
?? ;
Salaamun Aliqum Mazhar,
Refer to red part.
Does that mean, all those Muslims who do not pray traditionally are doubtful monotheists?
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Salaamun Aliqum Mazhar,
Refer to red part.
Does that mean, all those Muslims who do not pray are doubtful monotheists?
Salamun alaika
it has different manifestations---many have different tradition regards its protocol.
The conditional clause and its apodosis clause gives this verdict. Subject to fulfilling the conditions, one will be the brother of the Messenger of Allah in Deen Islam, otherwise not. The noticeable conditional activities are Salat and Zakat. Notice that "Fasting" is not mentioned. Salat is a time bound protocol.
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Wakas,
Salamun alaika;
polytheist one who worships or believes in more than one god.
Is The God commanding the polytheists to uphold/maintain the prayer, even though they are polytheists? Do they pray to their gods? Is The God giving them an ultimatum somehow convert to Muslims and uphold/maintain the prayer or if they don't they will get punished?
My answer to all three questions would be no, because this doesn't make sense. However, for those who believe salat=prayer, they are forced into a corner do they accept their interpretation doesn't make sense and reconsider their view of salat OR do they continue to follow salat=prayer and make the verses fit their view?
I have no doubt in my mind, that their initial reaction will be to choose the latter option. If they do not, their entire argument for salat=prayer collapses because there is no way 'the reading' would use the exact same wording for polytheists and believers, telling both of them to uphold/maintain the prayer!This erroneous understanding is only because of ignoring the foremost condition
- So when the restricted months are passed, then you may fight the polytheists wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and uphold/maintain the salat and bring forth the betterment, then clear/vacate their way/path. Truly, The God is Turning/Forgiving, Embracing/Merciful.
"If they repent" "Taba" does not merely mean to feel sorry or say "sorry".
Repent
- be sorry to recognize the wrong in something you have done and be sorry about it
- change ways to feel regret about a sin or past actions and change your ways or habits
The verdict is not about the polytheists.
Returning to monotheism is the first condition. Once they have returned they are required to meet the next two conditions.
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peace Mazhar,
Returning to monotheism is the first condition. Once they have returned they are required to meet the next two conditions.
A statement without evidence as per Quran. The article gives several ways to prove what you say is true, if it is true
Can this word possibly mean conversion? To find out, we can use several different methods
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Check all 34 occurrences to see if there is a clear example of 'conversion'. Not only that, we can check the entire root to see if this meaning (conversion) is possible. Thus, out of 87 occurrences, how many show a conversion has taken place? The answer is zero, there are no other examples of polytheists converting to Muslims. Feel free to check the occurrences.
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Check if the Classical Arabic dictionaries give 'conversion' as a possible meaning of the root Ta-Waw-Ba
'Dictionary of the Holy Quran' by Abdul Mannan Omar
(which utilises 'Al-Mufradat fi Gharib al-Quran', 'Lisan al-Arab', 'Taj al-Arus min Jawahir al Qamus' and 'The Arabic English Lexicon'
To return; repent; turn one's self in a repentant manner (with ila/to or without it), turn with mercy (with ala), repentance.'The Arabic English Lexicon' by Edward W. Lane
He repented; or repented toward God (as will be shown by what follows), adapt to repentance, returning from disobedience to obedience.From the above, its clear 'conversion' is not listed as one of the possible meanings.
It should be noted that the possible meaning 'return' is given. Thus some might say they are being asked to return to Islam, or return as Muslims. Since the context never mentions they were Muslims originally, this is a completely baseless assumption. Furthermore, it can be seen from the usage of the word itself throughout 'the reading', it is unlikely to mean 'return'. Even if it did mean return, it would obviously refer to returning to the treaty.
The underlined parts in the dictionary quotes show that the word (repent) can mean repent with or without a following 'ila' which means 'to'. And secondly, the object that follows 'repent' can tell us to whom the repentance is being done, if it is not clear from the context. Please note, that both sources state it is not necessary for an object to follow the word 'repent'.
From the dictionary meanings, the only possibility of a word that could imply conversion is "turn", i.e. turn to God/Islam (even though the underlined part is an insertion/extrapolation). However if "turn" is used, then it should be followed by an object. Not only does this make sense logically, this is how 'the reading' itself uses it! Can those who support the 'taboo=turn (to God/Islam) in 95' view find another example where "turn" is meant but no object is mentioned? The answer is no, there is none.
In other words, this word is never used to mean "turn" without mentioning an object that the turning is done to. Once again, feel free to check the occurrences.
In fact, this is how 'the reading' distinguishes the usage of the term. When the prepositions 'ila/to' or 'ala/to' are used twb always means turn. Without them, twb means repent. You will not find an exception to this rule in the entire quran. Not only is this alluded to in 'Dictionary of the Holy Quran', it is also explicitly stated in 'A Concordance of The Quran' by Hanna E Kassistaba vb. (I) ~ repent, to be penitent, to do penance; (with prep. ala) to turn towrds someone (in forgiveness); (with prep. ila) to turn towrds someone (in penance). (n. vb.) repentnce, penitance. (pcple. act.) one who repents, penitent.
- Use the grammar of the verse. A closer examination of the grammar reveals that it is extremely unlikely for the final "...hum" to refer to other than the previous "...hum" (i.e. the polytheists). "...hum" is simply an Arabic suffix (found at the end of words) which means "them/their/they" referring to the previous object of reference. An example "The Government is responsible for the control and administration of public policy. They decide which laws to pass through debate and review committees which they appoint."
The transliteration and translation will be posted side by side for comparison
Fa-itha insalakha al-ashhuru alhurumu faoqtuloo almushrikeena haythu wajadtumoohum wakhuthoohum waohsuroohum waoqAAudoo lahum kulla marsadin fa-in taboo waaqamoo alssalata waatawoo alzzakata fakhalloo sabeelahum inna Allaha ghafoorun raheemun
So when the restricted months are passed, then you may fight the polytheists wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and uphold/maintain the salat and bring forth the betterment, then clear/vacate their path. Truly, The God is Turning/Forgiving, Embracing/Merciful.
If those who believe the final "hum" in "sabeelahum" refers to converts, then please provide other examples where 'the reading' changes the object of reference mid-sentence. Furthermore, where a verb (e.g. repent/taboo) is used to create a new group of people, then that creation is used as a reference for "...hum". Can they find any examples like this in the entire quran?
To put it simply, there is zero evidence from the grammar or linguistically that shows this passage refers to people who are not mentioned at all. In fact, the evidence goes against that being the case.- Use our logic/reason. Is it logical that The God would give the polytheists an ultimatum, forcing them to convert to Muslims otherwise they will be punished? This notion is nowhere to be found in 'the reading' and completely goes against its principles, which state
There is no compulsion in this obligation/system, the right way has been made clear from the wrong way. Whoever rejects falsities, and believes in The God, then he has grasped the most solid branch that will never break. The God is Hearer, Aware/Knower.
The situation in 91-12 is similar to the thief and those who fight against The God and His messenger , they are not required to convert, they are required to repent and amend, i.e. it is not necessary for them to become Muslim, as this would be absurd. Nor are they required to repent to The God, because this would imply there are no disbelieving thieves, an impossibility. That is why there is no 'ila/to' mentioned in the context, just like in 93, 95, 911. 'The reading' could have easily used 'ila/to' if that was actually the intended meaning, like it did in 664 for example, but it didn't.
If repenting to The God or converting to Muslim was required then imagining a workable example in a real-life situation is difficult. The reader is strongly recommended to think of real-life situations.Please try again.
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Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 050243 AM
Returning to monotheism is the first condition. Once they have returned they are required to meet the next two conditions.
A statement without evidence as per Quran. The article gives several ways to prove what you say is true, if it is true
- Check if the Classical Arabic dictionaries give 'conversion' as a possible meaning of the root Ta-Waw-Ba
'Dictionary of the Holy Quran' by Abdul Mannan Omar
(which utilises 'Al-Mufradat fi Gharib al-Quran', 'Lisan al-Arab', 'Taj al-Arus min Jawahir al Qamus' and 'The Arabic English Lexicon'
To return; repent; turn one's self in a repentant manner (with ila/to or without it), turn with mercy (with ala), repentance.'The Arabic English Lexicon' by Edward W. Lane
He repented; or repented toward God (as will be shown by what follows), adapt to repentance, returning from disobedience to obedience.From the above, its clear 'conversion' is not listed as one of the possible meanings.
Despite quoting such unimbiguous statements what hampers to believe that the Root signifies to discard the earlier adopted position and switch over with sincereity to a position opposite to the earlier one. Conversion also signifies to adopt new opinions--belief.
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Peace,
Just a guess, but I feel that the converts the Quran means is those who were pagans or not caring about religion at all.
The Christians and Jews are supposed to be following God's religion already, as far as I have understood, except misunderstandings such as Jesus divinity.
God bless you
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Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 050243 AM
Despite quoting such unimbiguous statements what hampers to believe that the Root signifies to discard the earlier adopted position and switch over with sincereity to a position opposite to the earlier one.
Yes, but not necessarily "conversion". Unfortunately for you, there is no evidence from Classical Arabic dictionaries or Quran that shows this word to mean "conversion".
If you're happy with no evidence being the evidence you can bring to the table for your position, fair enough.
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Yes, but not necessarily "conversion". Unfortunately for you, there is no evidence from Classical Arabic dictionaries or Quran that shows this word to mean "conversion".
If you're happy with no evidence being the evidence you can bring to the table for your position, fair enough.
Evidence is simplest, yet not being taken. "Conversion" means change something's character; change somebody's beliefs.
its synonyms are alsochange, adapt, alter, transform,
switch, change, change over, transfer, go over, move
The first meanings given in lexicons quoted is To return, repentence. Both these mean to regret the present course and adopt --- switch over to other belief -idea- course. This is nothing but conversion, the word which you think appropriate for becoming a believer from earlier state of polytheism.
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Evidence is simplest, yet not being taken. "Conversion" means change something's character; change somebody's beliefs.
its synonyms are alsochange, adapt, alter, transform,
switch, change, change over, transfer, go over, move
The first meanings given in lexicons quoted is To return, repentence. Both these mean to regret the present course and adopt --- switch over to other belief -idea- course. This is nothing but conversion, the word which you think appropriate for becoming a believer from earlier state of polytheism.
To Repent do not necessarily mean to believe or convert.
Quran is a consistent book, usage of any word has to be consistent throughout.7153 But those who committed misdeeds and then repented after them and believed - indeed your Lord, thereafter, is Forgiving and Merciful.
In above verse "repentance" was the first activity followed by conversion.
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To Repent do not necessarily mean to believe or convert.
Quran is a consistent book, usage of any word has to be consistent throughout.7153 But those who committed misdeeds and then repented after them and believed - indeed your Lord, thereafter, is Forgiving and Merciful.
In above verse "repentance" was the first activity followed by conversion.
Arabic word does not mean "repentance" perceived in the sense of saying "sorry" by recognizing the wrong in something one has done. It conveys the perception to return, coming back, withdrawal, retraction on realizing and admitting the earlier state and position as sinful.
It corresponds to English word "repentance" in the meaning of change ways to feel regret about a sin or past actions and change your ways.The same point is elaborated in the above quoted Ayah.
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The verse would make sense if the change is behavioural in nature. "Converting" the unbelievers only to ask them to pray 5 times a day only reinforces the perception that Islam spread by the sword!
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The verse would make sense if the change is behavioural in nature. "Converting" the unbelievers only to ask them to pray 5 times a day only reinforces the perception that Islam spread by the sword!
Verb "Tabu" is a voluntary action, no outside coercion or threat is involved. "Repentance" is a feel of guilt, and you cant' make people feel guilty by showing them sword.
