New Islamic Calendar Project
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Hi,
I've already answered this question.
And no, this is not a new hadeeth it's simply the great Qur'an!
Peace
The Qur'aan is direct,straightforward, and very clear on the subject.
1st The number of months in ISLAMIC calendar-year is always TWELVE.
2nd believing-in and including the Nasii in the ISLAMIC calendar-year is EXCESS IN DISBELIEF.
And again, pay attention to the verses 936 & 937 below.
936
Verily, the number of months with Allah is twelve months (in a year), so was it ordained by Allah on the Day when He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are Sacred. That is the right religion, so wrong not yourselves therein, and fight against the polytheists, collectively as they fight against you collectively. But know that Allah is with those who are Al-Muttaqun (the pious).
937
The Nasii/ postponing (of Sacred Months) is indeed an increase in disbelief thereby the disbelievers are led astray, for they make it lawful one year and forbid it another year in order to adjust the number of months forbidden by Allah, and make such forbidden ones lawful. The evil of their deeds is made fair-seeming to them. And Allah guides not the people who disbelieve.Peace,
Khlil -
Dear Noon waalqalami.
Dear M-Amine -- where did I mention airplanes and satellites?
Qur'an is precise and does not give mediocre calculations or instructions nor should we insert words and assumptions where there are none and guess in the unseen.
Where did you see the insertion of the words in my answers?
Which word is "best" in the verse?
1811 so cast we over ears theirs in the cave snyn/seasons number of
1812 furthermore raised we them to make evident which the two parties counted of what remained they period ofIn this verse (1812), the word "" is a name that mean preference (something is better than another) as any words like "" in Arabic language, that's called name of preference ( ل.
If someone awoke from coma in desert or cave -- how would they calculate their time asleep?
- count tree rings from a known tree perhaps?
- look at stars, sun, and/or moon alignments?
- use your method whatever that is perhaps?
Yes the whole point -- they don't know time spent; like awaking from deep sleep/coma, none knows.
- See what season they are
If they fall into a coma and was awake in the summer, they can say we slept one or a few days.
Please translate the word exactly ? who increased?
1825 ... and increase ?My english is very bad so I only use translations already available
Sahih International
And they remained in their cave for three hundred years and exceeded by nine.
Muhsin Khan
And they stayed in their Cave three hundred (solar) years, and add nine (for lunar years).
Pickthall
And (it is said) they tarried in their Cave three hundred years and add nine.
Yusuf Ali
So they stayed in their Cave three hundred years, and (some) add nine (more)
Shakir
And they remained in their cave three hundred years and (some) add (another) nine.
Dr. Ghali
And they lingered in their cave three hundred years, and to that they increased nine (more).They're guessing in the unseen as you using same imprecise calculations known to ancient star gazers i.e.
309 x 12 lunar months = 299.799498 years
This Qur?an corrects in the very next verse?
1826 say the god of knowledge in what remained they to him unseen the heavens and the earth...
Who are "They're"?
The purpose of you posting the above verse?
Yes ponder Qur?an, read precisely not inject words where there are none or make assumptive guesses.It is true it is crucial to understand the Qur'an but not with the point of view of the ancestors.
Now I have one question for you. Why we do not have the right to hunt in the sacred month?
Peace
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The Qur'aan is direct,straightforward, and very clear on the subject.
1st The number of months in ISLAMIC calendar-year is always TWELVE.
2nd believing-in and including the Nasii in the ISLAMIC calendar-year is EXCESS IN DISBELIEF.
And again, pay attention to the verses 936 & 937 below.
936
Verily, the number of months with Allah is twelve months (in a year), so was it ordained by Allah on the Day when He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are Sacred. That is the right religion, so wrong not yourselves therein, and fight against the polytheists, collectively as they fight against you collectively. But know that Allah is with those who are Al-Muttaqun (the pious).
937
The Nasii/ postponing (of Sacred Months) is indeed an increase in disbelief thereby the disbelievers are led astray, for they make it lawful one year and forbid it another year in order to adjust the number of months forbidden by Allah, and make such forbidden ones lawful. The evil of their deeds is made fair-seeming to them. And Allah guides not the people who disbelieve.Peace,
KhlilHello,
Where have you seen in the verse 936 that one year is 12 lunar month?
And why "Nasii" is an excess of disbelief in the verse 937?Peace
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Dear Noon waalqalami.
Where did you see the insertion of the words in my answers?
Dear M-Amine,
The translations you are using are inaccurate, add/omit words, and make assumptions.
In this verse (1812), the word "" is a name that mean preference (something is better than another)
The word means counted not preference (something is better than another) use context; see also ?
7228 ? and counted/calculated each thing number of ?http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
Ha-Sad-Ya = Calculate, to count/number. to number/count/calculate/count/compute a thing, to reckon a thing, reach the last number of a thing, collect into an aggregate by numbering, retain a thing in the memory, understand a thing, register/record the number of a thing, comprehend or know a thing altogether.
ahsa n.m. comp. 1812
ahsa vb. (4)
perf. act. 1849, 1994, 3612, 586, 7228, 7829
impf. act. 1434, 1618, 7320
impv. 651
Lane's Lexicon, Volume 2, page 223, 224... , (inf. n. , TA,) He numbered, counted, calculated, reckoned, or computed, it (S, Msb, K) or he reached the last number thereof (Ham p. 297) or he collected it into an aggregate by numbering from ; because they used pebbles in numbering like as we use the fingers; (Er-R?ghib or because they used to divide a thing upon the pebbles, and when nothing remained they said, , i. e. We have come to the pebbles; or because they used to reckon the spoils, and to divide among themselves, and then to take the pebbles, and put marks upon them, and when they ended the reckoning, and came to the marks, they said, (Ham ubi supr?) or he retained it in his memory (K, * TA) or he understood it. (K.)
- See what season they are
If they fall into a coma and was awake in the summer, they can say we slept one or a few days.
That only works within one year; example fall asleep in winter and awake in summer not for many years.
My english is very bad so I only use translations already available
Sahih International
And they remained in their cave for three hundred years and exceeded by nine.
Muhsin Khan
And they stayed in their Cave three hundred (solar) years, and add nine (for lunar years).
Pickthall
And (it is said) they tarried in their Cave three hundred years and add nine.
Yusuf Ali
So they stayed in their Cave three hundred years, and (some) add nine (more)
Shakir
And they remained in their cave three hundred years and (some) add (another) nine.
Dr. Ghali
And they lingered in their cave three hundred years, and to that they increased nine (more).Who are "They're"?
No worries your English is fine and all above are inaccurate except for Dr. Ghali.
Three parts to the word in question?
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=37934And ? Increased ? They
Thus we have to translate close to Arabic as possible which 1825 they?re asking question and making assumption.
1825 and remained they in cave theirs three hundred snyn/seasons and increase they nine of
The answer to the above assumptive question is given thus...
1826 say the god of knowledge in what remained they to him unseen the heavens and the earth...
Now I have one question for you. Why we do not have the right to hunt in the sacred month?
This is a bit off topic different subject and same reason one cannot eat swine flesh -- it's a commandment.
Peace
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Hello,
Where have you seen in the verse 936 that one year is 12 lunar month?
And why "Nasii" is an excess of disbelief in the verse 937?Peace
You can find the answer to your first question in verse 1825 below.
And they remained in their cave three hundred years and add nine.
Adding NINE to the initial thee hundred years informs us that the Muslims were using LUNAR calendar. Otherwise, it was not necessary to tell them about the addition of nine years to the three hundred SOLAR years.
As for your second question. Up until the revelation of surah 9, especially 936 and 937, the disbelievers, for their mere economical interests, used to move the number of sacred months around year to year as it pleased their interests, disregarding the socioeconomics of the society as a whole. Revelation of 936 and 937 put an end to this corruption, by restricting the number of months to TWELVE and by forbidding the Nasii.
Peace,
Khalil -
Dear Noon waalqalami,
Dear M-Amine,
The translations you are using are inaccurate, add/omit words, and make assumptions.
I think that the different translations reflects how people read the verse.
The word means counted not preference (something is better than another) use context; see also ?
7228 ? and counted/calculated each thing number of ?http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
Ha-Sad-Ya = Calculate, to count/number. to number/count/calculate/count/compute a thing, to reckon a thing, reach the last number of a thing, collect into an aggregate by numbering, retain a thing in the memory, understand a thing, register/record the number of a thing, comprehend or know a thing altogether.
ahsa n.m. comp. 1812
ahsa vb. (4)
perf. act. 1849, 1994, 3612, 586, 7228, 7829
impf. act. 1434, 1618, 7320
impv. 651
Lane's Lexicon, Volume 2, page 223, 224... , (inf. n. , TA,) He numbered, counted, calculated, reckoned, or computed, it (S, Msb, K or he reached the last number thereof (Ham p. 297 or he collected it into an aggregate by numbering from ; because they used pebbles in numbering like as we use the fingers; (Er-R?ghib or because they used to divide a thing upon the pebbles, and when nothing remained they said, , i. e. We have come to the pebbles; or because they used to reckon the spoils, and to divide among themselves, and then to take the pebbles, and put marks upon them, and when they ended the reckoning, and came to the marks, they said, (Ham ubi supr? or he retained it in his memory (K, * TA or he understood it. (K.)
I think I misspoke.
I know that "" mean counted.
I meant that in this verse "" is as "" which is called in Arabic grammar " " which is used to define two things that share the same capacity, but some is better than the other.
For more information http//articles.islamweb.net/media/index.php?page=article&lang=A&id=168597
That only works within one year; example fall asleep in winter and awake in summer not for many years.
If I fall into a coma in August 20, 2013 (summer) and I wake in August 20, 2113, one hundred solar years later, I'll be in summer so no difference.
This is not true with purely lunar year as we do.
No worries your English is fine and all above are inaccurate except for Dr. Ghali.
Three parts to the word in question?
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=37934And ? Increased ? They
Thus we have to translate close to Arabic as possible which 1825 they?re asking question and making assumption.
1825 and remained they in cave theirs three hundred snyn/seasons and increase they nine of
The answer to the above assumptive question is given thus...
1826 say the god of knowledge in what remained they to him unseen the heavens and the earth...
This is not true. "" mean "years are increased" and not "Ashab Alkahf had nine more years."
In this verse, the years have been cited in the plural "" therefore "" is linked to years "" not "".
If the verse was so " " your reading is correct but the opposite is true.
This is a bit off topic different subject and same reason one cannot eat swine flesh -- it's a commandment.
No, it is an important subject, without lunisolar calendar we can not respect the sacred months nor the true month of Ramadan or the month of Hajj ...
Peace
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You can find the answer to your first question in verse 1825 below.
And they remained in their cave three hundred years and add nine.
Adding NINE to the initial thee hundred years informs us that the Muslims were using LUNAR calendar. Otherwise, it was not necessary to tell them about the addition of nine years to the three hundred SOLAR years.
As for your second question. Up until the revelation of surah 9, especially 936 and 937, the disbelievers, for their mere economical interests, used to move the number of sacred months around year to year as it pleased their interests, disregarding the socioeconomics of the society as a whole. Revelation of 936 and 937 put an end to this corruption, by restricting the number of months to TWELVE and by forbidding the Nasii.
Peace,
KhalilNo, it proves that the Muslims used the calculations they inserted after every 32 months a full lunar month to keep synchronization with the seasons (winter, spring, summer, fall).
It is not logical to have a month called "RABII 1" or "RABII 2" which mean SPRING in September or November!!
And the verse does not prohibit the use of "Nasii" he tells us that the removal of "Nasii" to decrease the number of sacred months " " is an excess of disbelief.
Peace
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Dear M-Amine,
I think that the different translations reflects how people read the verse.
I think I misspoke.
I know that "" mean counted.
I meant that in this verse "" is as "" which is called in Arabic grammar " " which is used to define two things that share the same capacity, but some is better than the other.
There is only one correct reading and we have to read carefully the words used not insert words or suppositions like "in this verse "" is as ""..." ? again the word used is counted which again here is the clear definition of the word used?
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
Ha-Sad-Ya = Calculate, to count/number. to number/count/calculate/count/compute a thing, to reckon a thing, reach the last number of a thing, collect into an aggregate by numbering, retain a thing in the memory, understand a thing, register/record the number of a thing, comprehend or know a thing altogether.
ahsa n.m. comp. 1812... , (inf. n. , TA,) He numbered, counted, calculated, reckoned, or computed, it (S, Msb, K) or he reached the last number thereof (Ham p. 297) or he collected it into an aggregate by numbering from ; because they used pebbles in numbering like as we use the fingers; (Er-R?ghib or because they used to divide a thing upon the pebbles, and when nothing remained they said, , i. e. We have come to the pebbles; or because they used to reckon the spoils, and to divide among themselves, and then to take the pebbles, and put marks upon them, and when they ended the reckoning, and came to the marks, they said, (Ham ubi supr?) or he retained it in his memory (K, * TA) or he understood it. (K.)
If I fall into a coma in August 20, 2013 (summer) and I wake in August 20, 2113, one hundred solar years later, I'll be in summer so no difference.
This is not true with purely lunar year as we do.
How would you know coming out of your sleep that it's 100 years later?
That was whole point of verse and exercise not possible to know years.Which BTW, is aam/year(s)...
2259 or like the one who pass by on a town and are empty on trellises its said how gives life this the god after death its so caused to die him the god hundred aam/year(s)...
This is not true. "" mean "years are increased" and not "Ashab Alkahf had nine more years."
In this verse, the years have been cited in the plural "" therefore "" is linked to years "" not "".
If the verse was so " " your reading is correct but the opposite is true.
No, the word 3rd person masculine plural perfect verb always and is only applicable to people nothing else.
See examples of the exact same word used ...
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=7676
Increased - They
390 indeed the ones disbelieve/reject they after belief theirs furthermore increased they disbelief/rejection of never accepted repentance theirs and those they the straying
Likewise 4137
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=12617Therefore, someone was asking questions and they were increasing by nine. Answer to their speculation was ...
1826 say the god of knowledge in what remained they to him unseen the heavens and the earth...
Peace
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...It is not logical to have a month called "RABII 1" or "RABII 2" which mean SPRING in September or November!!...
On the contrary, it is highly illogical and unjust that a month like RMADZAN fall in a fixed season like Summer, expecting the people living in the northern hemisphere, for example, to fast very hot 18-hour days, year after year, while at the same time, residents of the southern hemisphere are fasting very cool 8-hour days.
Peace,
Khalil -
Dear Noon waalqalami
Dear M-Amine,
There is only one correct reading and we have to read carefully the words used not insert words or suppositions like "in this verse "" is as ""..." ? again the word used is counted which again here is the clear definition of the word used?
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
Ha-Sad-Ya = Calculate, to count/number. to number/count/calculate/count/compute a thing, to reckon a thing, reach the last number of a thing, collect into an aggregate by numbering, retain a thing in the memory, understand a thing, register/record the number of a thing, comprehend or know a thing altogether.
ahsa n.m. comp. 1812... , (inf. n. , TA,) He numbered, counted, calculated, reckoned, or computed, it (S, Msb, K) or he reached the last number thereof (Ham p. 297) or he collected it into an aggregate by numbering from ; because they used pebbles in numbering like as we use the fingers; (Er-R?ghib or because they used to divide a thing upon the pebbles, and when nothing remained they said, , i. e. We have come to the pebbles; or because they used to reckon the spoils, and to divide among themselves, and then to take the pebbles, and put marks upon them, and when they ended the reckoning, and came to the marks, they said, (Ham ubi supr?) or he retained it in his memory (K, * TA) or he understood it. (K.)
= And afterward We raised them up
= that We might know
= which of the two parties
= would best calculate the time that they had tarried.There is two parties, one will be right and the other not.
So one better than the other.
that's all.How would you know coming out of your sleep that it's 100 years later?
That was whole point of verse and exercise not possible to know years.Which BTW, is aam/year(s)...
2259 or like the one who pass by on a town and are empty on trellises its said how gives life this the god after death its so caused to die him the god hundred aam/year(s)...
If you fall into a coma in the winter and you wake up in the summer, you can not say you've slept a day.
Climate and vegetation will change in the meantime.
No, the word 3rd person masculine plural perfect verb always and is only applicable to people nothing else.
See examples of the exact same word used ...
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=7676
Increased - They
390 indeed the ones disbelieve/reject they after belief theirs furthermore increased they disbelief/rejection of never accepted repentance theirs and those they the straying
Likewise 4137
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=12617Therefore, someone was asking questions and they were increasing by nine. Answer to their speculation was ...
1826 say the god of knowledge in what remained they to him unseen the heavens and the earth...
It is your own reading, there is another part of people who read "exceeded by nine", "And add nine (for lunar years)." "And add nine"?
Peace
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On the contrary, it is highly illogical and unjust that a month like RMADZAN fall in a fixed season like Summer, expecting the people living in the northern hemisphere, for example, to fast very hot 18-hour days, year after year, while at the same time, residents of the southern hemisphere are fasting very cool 8-hour days.
Peace,
KhalilDear Khalil.
The logic is that Ramadan is fixed in the autumnal equinox, when everyone can faste the same length (12 hours) in north and south.
With the current calendar, every day of the year can be sacred (months turning over the year).
And every night of the year can be Leilat Alqadr!
And the beginning of Ramandan in Egypt is not the same as Morocco, and Eid is not the same and the day AARAFA is not the same ...!!
Without the use of the intercalary month, the Muslim calendar is false.
Peace
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Dear M-Amine,
= And afterward We raised them up
= that We might know
= which of the two parties
= would best calculate the time that they had tarried.There is two parties, one will be right and the other not.
So one better than the other.
that's all.No that is not all, again there is no "best" in the verse and one group counted while the other did not.
1812 furthermore raised we them to make evident which the two groups counted of what remained they duration of
If you fall into a coma in the winter and you wake up in the summer, you can not say you've slept a day.
Climate and vegetation will change in the meantime.
No, again you are not answering the question how do you know number of years that you slept?
2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, 41, 43, 47, 53, 59, 61, 67, 71, 73, 79, 83, 89, 97, 101, ...?It is your own reading, there is another part of people who read "exceeded by nine", "And add nine (for lunar years)." "And add nine"?
No, again why it is not clear "they" in the word or you need reminder of verse you posted earlier?
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=37934
1825 ... and increased they nine ofhttp//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=7676
390 ... increased theyhttp//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=12617
4137 ... increased theyPeace
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Dear Noon waalqalami
Dear M-Amine,
No that is not all, again there is no "best" in the verse and one group counted while the other did not.
1812 furthermore raised we them to make evident which the two groups counted of what remained they duration of
Here translation from King Fahd Complex for the Printing of the Holy Qur'an
- And they stayed in their Cave three hundred (solar) years, adding nine (for lunar years). (Tafsir Al-Qurtubi)
http//www.qurancomplex.org/Quran/Targama/Targama.asp?L=eng&Page=294#18_1
And here tafsir Ibn Kathir
(Then We raised them up, that We might test which of the two parties) meaning, the two
parties who disputed about them,(was best at calculating the time period that they tarried.) It was said that this refers to how
long they stayed in the cave.And here tafsir Aljalalayn
{ } { } { } { } { } { } .
No, again you are not answering the question how do you know number of years that you slept?
2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, 41, 43, 47, 53, 59, 61, 67, 71, 73, 79, 83, 89, 97, 101, ...?You can?t know number of years, but
If you sleep in winter and wake in winter, you can tell I slept 1 or 2 days.
If you sleep in winter and wake in summer, you can?t tell I slept 1 or 2 days but some weeks or months.For this reason the YEAR in Qur?an is a SOLAR year not lunar.
No, again why it is not clear "they" in the word or you need reminder of verse you posted earlier?
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=37934
1825 ... and increased they nine ofhttp//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=7676
390 ... increased theyhttp//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=12617
4137 ... increased theyHere translation from King Fahd Complex for the Printing of the Holy Qur'an
- And they stayed in their Cave three hundred (solar) years, adding nine (for lunar years). (Tafsir Al-Qurtubi)
http//www.qurancomplex.org/Quran/Targama/Targama.asp?L=eng&Page=296#18_1
And here tafsir Ibn Kathir
- And they stayed in their cave three hundred years, adding nine.) (26. Say "Allah knows best how long they stayed. With Him is the unseen of the heavens and the earth.'' How clearly He sees, and hears (everything)! They have no protector other than Him, and He makes none to share in His decision and His rule.)
Here Allah tells His Messenger the length of time the people of the Cave spent in their cave, from the time when He caused them to sleep until the time when He resurrected them and caused the people of that era to find them. The length of time was three hundred plus nine years in lunar years, which is three hundred years in solar years. The difference between one hundred lunar years and one hundred solar years is three years, which is why after mentioning three hundred, Allah says, `adding nine.'
And here tafsir Aljalalayn
{ } { } { } .
Peace
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...Without the use of the intercalary month, the Muslim calendar is false...
The highlights above are from me.
I'm beginning to smell yet another conspiracy in the brewing process against ISLAM & THE QUR'AAN. All I know is that according to The Qur'aan (936 & 937), Islamic calendar-year ALWAYS consists of only TWELVE Lunar months with no "leap" year.
Anyways. This was my last two cents worth regarding this topic.
... ..., and peace be upon whoever that follows the guidance...
Peace,
Khalil -
The highlights above are from me.
I'm beginning to smell yet another conspiracy in the brewing process against ISLAM & THE QUR'AAN. All I know is that according to The Qur'aan (936 & 937), Islamic calendar-year ALWAYS consists of only TWELVE Lunar months with no "leap" year.
Anyways. This was my last two cents worth regarding this topic.
... ..., and peace be upon whoever that follows the guidance...
Peace,
KhalilThank you for this debate
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Dear M-Amine,
You can?t know number of years, but
There is no but -- you admit it's impossible to know or calculate number of years. Therefore your copy/paste translations and readings are baseless and inaccurate.
Here translation from King Fahd Complex for the Printing of the Holy Qur'an
- And they stayed in their Cave three hundred (solar) years, adding nine (for lunar years). (Tafsir Al-Qurtubi)
http//www.qurancomplex.org/Quran/Targama/Targama.asp?L=eng&Page=296#18_1
And here tafsir Ibn Kathir
- And they stayed in their cave three hundred years, adding nine.)
The above cannot read and "they" don't understand simple pronoun that "they" teach people in elementary school and "they" cut words used in Qur'an in half which they might as well cast out entire verses.
Thank you for this debate
Likewise, perhaps read for yourself and don't rely too much on translations of the illiterate.
Peace
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so, which way we should follow? giveup
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Peace Ukaza Perdana
For our safety, it's better we keep following BMKG and MUI counting, unless you're able to counting yourself.
But this link may help you
http//www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/breaking_fast.htmlSalam