WE ARE BORN BELIEVERS IN GOD!

StopS

More related to the topic of this thread; I would like to say that the human brain has a spiritual center which causes us to believe in God. You would know this if you studied some psychology and some additional studies in medicine. Belief in God is nothing strange because it is a perfectly normal function of the brain. Was it not meant for us to believe in God this center of the brain would not exist, to draw a rational conclusion.

Also worth noticing, many atheists, despite denying existence of a deity, believe that paranormal/supernatural activities occur. This belief is due to the same before-mentioned center of the brain. It means there actually is an innate ability in humans to believe in God which is a normal psychological behavior. Of course, this unit in the brain is not simply designed for belief in God but everything which is spiritual. Could be aliens, ghosts or anything supernatural. Most people believe in something which cannot be proven by conventional science. Theists believe in a God, and it is not a mental disorder but a perfectly normal phenomenon.

There are so many misconceptions in this that I need to voice my opinion on this.

There are regions in the brain which show activity when a religious person is subjected to and thinks about spiritual encounters and angels and whatever his favourite super-natural passion is. This is not a God-Spot as was postulated by some media outlets, but a complex thought process which is triggered by different stimulants and still unknown interactions between memory and current thoughts.

Biologically it is totally normal to distinguish between dangerous and benevolent noises and occurrences. Do I hunt this or run away and hide is a vital decision and this is where this "spiritual" feeling of awe comes in. Humans appreciate beauty and magnificence. Through experience we learn that lightning can't harm us if we are in a cave, but we never knew what lightning was even though we admired it and thus attributed it to a higher being, the standard "God of the Gaps" argument. So what is built into the human brain is the ability to rationalise outside phenomena in order to categorise them.

This is where science comes in and analyses and describes these phenomena. Because science is there to analyse natural phenomena it can't address the super-natural and does not explain everything. It is just a tool.

An atheist only lacks a belief that there is evidence for the existence of a god. No more. No less.
There can be no denial, if something is not proven to exist. That's nonsensical.

An atheist can have any number of beliefs beyond atheism. That is part of the definition.
Delusion is believing something in spite of contrary evidence. If a person fabricates reasons for a belief this required faith. Never has any super-natural activity been documented. Never has any ESP or 6th sense been observed or demonstrated.

If a person requires the belief in a god you are right, it is something most of us know and accept. The discussion starts if a person who believes something without evidence wants others to believe the same thing. If you have studied psychology then you must surely know that there are different levels of propensity to believe something unproven. That's why a sceptic will take longer to accept something. I don't see either attitude as being superior or deserving the label "normal", it simply boils down to personality and attitude.

Believing whether or not aliens exist has no consequences. Believing a god exists and further believing this is a creator and guardian who judges me based on 24/7 observation is different somehow. I find it strange that you find this strange.

Please show how the belief in something unproven is beneficial. Is it beneficial for me to believe that elves, Nessie or Bigfoot exist? My grandmother found great comfort in believing her god answered all questions and supplied a superior type of justice. But is this belief beneficial? Is being blissfully unaware of the truth or knowing the truth better? It's personality based.

Ii my opinion if someone wants to believe something I don't mind at all, it's just when I am expected to believe this too or even this collides with my knowledge or my freedom I get itchy.

zone

Peace.
General statement. I have instinct to have an awareness of
God. I have to have reason to believe in God. In the zone of reason, there is study, process, methodology, logic and conviction among many things. It is complex. Only then i hold to it. Others can question and deny.

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

Belief in something is beneficial just because of the fact I wrote, it adds a purpose to life, no matter if the belief is true or not.

And about preconceptions, you can study some psychology yourself and see. You will see that spiritual belief is something completely normal.

I did not say that spiritual belief is completely limited to one part of brain, but this abstract thinking is extra prevalent in a specific part of it.

Belief in aliens can add a focus to life which can give excitement and is thus beneficial for the well-being.

If you read my post fully, you will see the post did not aim at proving or disproving God. Simply show that belief in God is fully normal behavior as well as belief in other supernatural phenomena.

Again, if your read my post you would notice I never said it is a "God-spot" but a spot in the brain for spiritual thinking. You can see this kind of thing in university literature. It involves all kinds of beliefs, from space aliens to gods.

Delusions in psychological terms means when you imagine things which are not true. It is a mental condition. It can be from communication with aliens to being able to via telepathy directly communicate with the president of United States.

This kind of thinking comes from this spiritual part of brain which has gone wild.

God bless you

StopS

no matter if the belief is true or not.

Granted. That's my entire point. Anyone is entitled to believe what they want for whatever reasons. Just not as a built-in function and verified using the scientific method as is suggested in the OP.

And about preconceptions, you can study some psychology yourself and see. You will see that spiritual belief is something completely normal.

If you study psychology you should know there is no such thing as "normal". It is socially accepted and our brain is wired to be inspired and in awe of the occult. That's all. I am a sceptic and missing that inclination or wiring, so for me it is abnormal to believe something without reason.

I did not say that spiritual belief is completely limited to one part of brain, but this abstract thinking is extra prevalent in a specific part of it.

I apologise if I misunderstood. I took "the human brain has a spiritual center" as meaning one particular part of the brain.

Belief in aliens can add a focus to life which can give excitement and is thus beneficial for the well-being.

True, like I said, as entertainment without consequences. This does not mean aliens are planted indelibly into our brains or impose a lifestyle on us.

If you read my post fully, you will see the post did not aim at proving or disproving God. Simply show that belief in God is fully normal behavior as well as belief in other supernatural phenomena.

I did not think this and did not say so. I commented your post fully, so why do you get the impression I did not read it fully? Do I seem to you like someone who randomly and superficially picks sentences and comments them? Well, I don't. Come on, is there really a reason to be so angry with me?

Again, if your read my post you would notice I never said it is a "God-spot" but a spot in the brain for spiritual thinking. You can see this kind of thing in university literature. It involves all kinds of beliefs, from space aliens to gods.

Which is why language has come up with quotation marks. If you go through the literature you will find evidence for the parallel activity in different parts of the region along with an outflow of oxytocin, the cuddle hormone. What I can't find anywhere is a reference to an area in the brain which processes gods, ghosts, the paranormal, haunted spirits and the super-natural. What is it called? Where is it? Who writes what about it? What papers substantiate your claim? Has it been verified? Was there a replication done? If yes, by whom? Are you talking about parapsychology?

R. A. McConnell wrote "psi phenomena are "non-physical" and thus show the existence of a non-physical realm in which the existence of a "God" becomes a possibility. A lovely idea but no scientist is going to take such a thing seriously. http//rationalwiki.org/wiki/TalkMind-Energy_forum

Delusions in psychological terms means when you imagine things which are not true. It is a mental condition. It can be from communication with aliens to being able to via telepathy directly communicate with the president of United States.

This kind of thinking comes from this spiritual part of brain which has gone wild.

God bless you

Good, we can almost agree on something. Delusion is not really a mental "condition". If you are not paranoid or suffer from schizophrenia that is. It is a belief. Where something is believed which is not necessarily true. We don't know with certainty whether a god exists and whether it is true or not. But then why did you say "it is perfectly normal to believe in God and not a delusion"?

Again you mention this? What and where is this "spiritual part of brain"?
Dr. Maurice Turmel, a spiritual psychologist, defines it as follows "Spiritual Psychology contains the understanding that we are more than just human beings, we are actually spiritual beings having a physical experience. Yes, that means I believe in the Divine within each and every one of us. " http//careersinpsychology.org/interview/dr-maurice-turmel/ He openly admits that this is esoteric and not accepted science. That is reality today.

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

Yes, of course it is delusions under clinical conditions, when someone is mentally ill.

I never said anything that spiritualism is an accepted science.

I am saying that believing in God is nothing which is abnormal. Abnormal behavior is well documented in psychology books. There is even studies showing that spiritual thinking is part of the brain function.

No, I am not talking about parapsychology, because it is not an accepted science. I never said sixth sense were real, only that they would originate in this sort of brain activity.

Like I said in my first post. Take a look in a psychology coursebook for university use.

Our spiritual thinking has a part in the brain but may activate several parts of the brain and it is not restricted to only God thoughts but most everything abstract superficial thinking.

Well, enough discussed. Thank you very much.

God bless you

StopS

Peace,

Yes, of course it is delusions under clinical conditions, when someone is mentally ill.

I never said anything that spiritualism is an accepted science.

I am saying that believing in God is nothing which is abnormal. Abnormal behavior is well documented in psychology books. There is even studies showing that spiritual thinking is part of the brain function.

No, I am not talking about parapsychology, because it is not an accepted science. I never said sixth sense were real, only that they would originate in this sort of brain activity.

Like I said in my first post. Take a look in a psychology coursebook for university use.

Our spiritual thinking has a part in the brain but may activate several parts of the brain and it is not restricted to only God thoughts but most everything abstract superficial thinking.

Well, enough discussed. Thank you very much.

God bless you

Now I agree even more with you. Thanks.

hawk99

Peace Man of Faith,

Are you attempting to convert non-believers into believers?

Please pay close attention to this ayat.

I will divert from My revelations those who are arrogant on earth, without
justification. Consequently, when they see every kind of proof they will not believe.
And when they see the path of guidance they will not adopt it as their path, but
when they see the path of straying they will adopt it as their path. This is the
consequence of their rejecting our proofs, and being totally heedless thereof.

peace

Zulf

I have felt my aura, to put a name on it. I wonder what you guys would say to this. Do you believe it? Do you think I'm lying, or I'm mistaken perhaps? What do you guys(or girls) think about what I'm saying.

It happened during a so called reiki initiation. The teacher "did" something with the hands in the space around my body (I was sitting on a chair) without touching me. I felt a sensation which was unlike anything I've ever felt before or after. I can describe it like I could feel my body in the air around it, the empty air around it. I was able to feel this space like it was a cloud part of my nervous system. The sensation was very distinct both in time, space and strength, and it was nothing I just imagined. I felt like a thick, "cloud-like" buzz. The amazing thing was that I felt it OUTSIDE my physical body and skin. I could feel the space to a certain radius (it felt to be about 50 cm out from the body) as if it was part of me.

It would be interesting to hear what you guys would say to this. I mean, I know what I felt. It was as real as feeling someone touch your arm. No less real, distinct or clear than that. These things are among those things that we haven't been able to measure using scientific tools.

Let me know

hicham9

I have felt my aura, to put a name on it. I wonder what you guys would say to this. Do you believe it? Do you think I'm lying, or I'm mistaken perhaps? What do you guys(or girls) think about what I'm saying.

It happened during a so called reiki initiation. The teacher "did" something with the hands in the space around my body (I was sitting on a chair) without touching me. I felt a sensation which was unlike anything I've ever felt before or after. I can describe it like I could feel my body in the air around it, the empty air around it. I was able to feel this space like it was a cloud part of my nervous system. The sensation was very distinct both in time, space and strength, and it was nothing I just imagined. I felt like a thick, "cloud-like" buzz. The amazing thing was that I felt it OUTSIDE my physical body and skin. I could feel the space to a certain radius (it felt to be about 50 cm out from the body) as if it was part of me.

It would be interesting to hear what you guys would say to this. I mean, I know what I felt. It was as real as feeling someone touch your arm. No less real, distinct or clear than that. These things are among those things that we haven't been able to measure using scientific tools.

Let me know

I believe you're focused on the wrong thing. thus, you are most likely on the wrong path.
I also think you're posting on the wrong topic! Nevertheless, you may be interested in the related links below -X

http//www.thejinn.net/chi_jinn_my_story.htm
http//thejinn.net/truth_about_spontaneous_chi.htm

SLM

Zulf

Peace,

I believe you're focused on the wrong thing. thus, you are most likely on the wrong path.

I don't understand what you mean or are referring to. Would you care to elaborate please?

I also think you're posting on the wrong topic! Nevertheless, you may be interested in the related links below -X

http//www.thejinn.net/chi_jinn_my_story.htm
http//thejinn.net/truth_about_spontaneous_chi.htm

Perhaps it is a bit off topic, I can agree to that, but let me clarify that the reason for posting this account was due to the other posts in this thread that were discussing believing vs not believing. I wanted to see what people would believe when I narrated my experience. I wanted to do an "experiment" on how people react to something they cannot verify.

Thanks for the links. I shall check them out and let you know what I conclude.

Zulf

I believe you're focused on the wrong thing. thus, you are most likely on the wrong path.
I also think you're posting on the wrong topic! Nevertheless, you may be interested in the related links below -X

http//www.thejinn.net/chi_jinn_my_story.htm
http//thejinn.net/truth_about_spontaneous_chi.htm

SLM

Bytheway, I checked those links. Funny mixture of chinese superstition, islamic superstition and exorcism, fairy tales and what not.
This guy claims to have studied both japanses martial arts and chinese ones, including both southern and northern styles, both extrernal and internal, and claims to have reached very advanced levels of skill in working with the qi-energy. And he claims to have achieved all this in "over a decade" which probably means 11-13 years. I say, yeah right. Anyone who has done any qigong or martial art knows that this would be stinking lies. To achieve all that in just over a decade.. hahaha. Anyhow, I will not remark on the rest of his text. There are thousands of website in the same category... one madder than the other. Mankind is indeed more interested in superstition and hearsay, than with reason.

Have you ever practised any qi-exercises yourself hicham9??

In any case, I find the response interesting. I wish more people could remark on my post.

Peace!

supportpeacenotwar

I have felt my aura, to put a name on it. I wonder what you guys would say to this. Do you believe it? Do you think I'm lying, or I'm mistaken perhaps? What do you guys(or girls) think about what I'm saying.

It happened during a so called reiki initiation. The teacher "did" something with the hands in the space around my body (I was sitting on a chair) without touching me. I felt a sensation which was unlike anything I've ever felt before or after. I can describe it like I could feel my body in the air around it, the empty air around it. I was able to feel this space like it was a cloud part of my nervous system. The sensation was very distinct both in time, space and strength, and it was nothing I just imagined. I felt like a thick, "cloud-like" buzz. The amazing thing was that I felt it OUTSIDE my physical body and skin. I could feel the space to a certain radius (it felt to be about 50 cm out from the body) as if it was part of me.

It would be interesting to hear what you guys would say to this. I mean, I know what I felt. It was as real as feeling someone touch your arm. No less real, distinct or clear than that. These things are among those things that we haven't been able to measure using scientific tools.

Let me know

Salaam,

I can't really say whether what you experienced was real or not. It clearly felt real to you and if you are content with your explanation for it, I don't see how I am one to out rightly dismiss or ridicule you for it - I see people sometimes do this, elsewhere I mean not on this forum, and I think its cruel. I believe there is still a lot that we can't see or understand and maybe we'll never discover the full explanation. For some of these things, maybe only these personal experiences are the glimpse we get of them. I don't know, only Allah swt knows these things.
If someone a long time ago talked about an experience that sounded like they were describing neutrinos or something, people wouldn't have understood or maybe even believed them. Yet it would have been interesting because now physicists explore this very topic and try to comprehend these particles that we do not see or feel but that pass through us, do they also come straight from space? - a very mysterious and strange thing. I'm not sure if that's the best example, but I'm just trying to compare the different ways that mysterious or highly unusual things become more acceptable to people in the framework of science etc. Hope that made sense!

hicham9

I don't understand what you mean or are referring to. Would you care to elaborate please?

Have you ever practised any qi-exercises yourself hicham9??

SLM Zulf,

To be honest, I havent. However, Ive done my research on the subject (since most of my graphic novels are - more or less - based around martial arts of eastern Asia | http//hichamstudio.webs.com/Burnout%20Page%2001.jpg). Ive come to understand that the concept of Chi (Ki, Prana, or Reiki as you like to call it) as an amorphous cosmic energy has been known about by previous civilisations and communities, with a similiar set of rituals/movements and risks associated with their practice. I think there are more than 70 million reikians practicing occult healing today, many of which are now in bondage to demonic spirits just because they have/had little knowledge of the occult tradition behind these dynamics of spiritual deception. basically, they are not aware that they are, in fact, calling upon reiki-spirits (invoking jinn) when sending reiki or initiating others. moreover, the huge surge of energy that one experiences daily becomes addictive and then debilitating. the reiki spirits influence and connect themselves with humans, through reiki-rituals, reiki treatments and up to demonic possession --- In my opinion; Kundalini, Reiki, TM, yoga, Astral travel, OBE, tarrot cards, spirit guides, ... are all forms of witchcraft involving Jinn invocation and shirk.

ALLAH (SWT) knows best.
Peace be unto you my brother.

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

There seems to be only one demon though and that is Shaytan. He is insanely powerful with susceptible targets though. Watch our for disturbed feelings because they might as well be the evil one. Seek regular protection from the evil the evil one and his followers. God will surely help you if you put your Faith in Him.

God bless you

Zulf

SLM Zulf,

To be honest, I haven?t. However, I?ve done my research on the subject (since most of my graphic novels are - more or less - based around martial arts of eastern Asia | http//hichamstudio.webs.com/Burnout%20Page%2001.jpg). I?ve come to understand that the concept of Chi (Ki, Prana, or Reiki as you like to call it) as an amorphous cosmic energy has been known about by previous civilisations and communities, with a similiar set of rituals/movements and risks associated with their practice. I think there are more than 70 million reikians practicing occult healing today, many of which are now in bondage to demonic spirits just because they have/had little knowledge of the occult tradition behind these dynamics of spiritual deception. basically, they are not aware that they are, in fact, calling upon reiki-spirits (invoking jinn) when sending reiki or initiating others. moreover, the huge surge of energy that one experiences daily becomes addictive and then debilitating. the reiki spirits influence and connect themselves with humans, through reiki-rituals, reiki treatments and up to demonic possession --- In my opinion; Kundalini, Reiki, TM, yoga, Astral travel, OBE, tarrot cards, spirit guides, ... are all forms of witchcraft involving Jinn invocation and shirk.

ALLAH (SWT) knows best.
Peace be unto you my brother.

Peace sir,

While I found those previous jinn-link websites foolish at best, I still have to agree with you on things in your last reply. Let me elaborate on some of my opinions

I think without a doubt that qi is no more than a simple energy, akin to electricity or similar, that is part of the mechanics of the body and living organisms. As such, it is an energy, and not a living entity like a jinn... whatever jinn is. Having said that, I also believe there is much to the unseen world we don't know about... much more than we can see and than we think. I know for a fact there are beings that live in this world that are unseen to most, but not all, people. They are part of Allah's creation like the rest of us and generally mind their own business. Of course, I don't expect anyone to believe this without personal experience, but I just said it. Probably there are many different types of beings that we don't know about... unseen but natural/normal. I fear that there is much confusing and mix-up between qi on one hand, and being belonging to the unseen world on the other. We should be very careful to not rush to conclusions about things we hardly have knowledge or experience about. Allah doesn't "like" that. Heresay is no good. So, I think people are mixing up many different things, real, imagined and made-up, and I really don't think qi is anything lese than a plain form of energy inherent to the physical world.
As far as reiki is concerned, I cannot really say much. I'm not practising it. I do know that some schools teach you to ask a spiritual guide for help... so there can be various degrees of suspect behaviour in the practice... but like I said, I don't know much about it. What I felt had a very physical feel to it... that is, mechanical, energetc... and not living as in a force from another being. It was more like a current in a magnet field or so... purely mechanical/physical. I find the idea that it has anything to do with jinn (assuming jinn is a live spirit entity in its own) is unfounded, farfetched and just odd. Having said that, I acknowledge the possibilty that people interfer with unseen beings... but if this is ever part of reiki, I have no idea... but if it is in some cases, I'm sure it is also not in most other cases. We should not judge something we don't have experience of. This leads to misunderstanding, misconceptions and worse.
You mention that Kundalini, Reiki, TM, yoga, Astral travel, OBE, tarrot cards, spirit guides are all forms of witchcraft involving Jinn invocation and shirk. I find this odd as these things you mention are totally different things. Unless you have tried out them all, you cannot say this with honesty. How can yoga for example be shirk and witchcraft? If a person has an OBE during e.g. surgery, how is that witchcraft and shirk?
I recall how the church called many different things witchcraft once upon a time. The reason was a combination of ignorance, superstition, agenda and fear of open and critical thinking. I'm not accusing you of this, but I'm just discussing the general tendency in human beings to judge things without knowledge. Superstition is very peculiar thing. It comes from the mind, but is quite infested with fear and other negativities resulting in the mind itself being unable to function and process things with reason and logic. People think a taveez (folded paper with quranic words written on it) hung by the neck or in a house will ward of evil spirits. Islam, like any other religion or philosphy, is riddled with superstition and shirk. Why? Well, because of it's practitioners. It's the people who fail to connect to Allah's guidance... no matter what they adhere to, whether it is shamansim, reiki, sunnism, paganism or catholisism.
Indeed, Allah knows best, and Allah is extremely merciful, more than we can imagine. Every second of our life contains mercy and a chance to a new and righteous life... but rarely do we see. We should all pray for guidance.... proper guidance and purification from that which is ACTUALLY preventing us from purifying ourselves and opening ourselves to Allah's reality. The shaytanic Ego. Most of us follow the ego, and not Allah, most of the time. This is shirk at its root, and it goes hand in hand with arrogance and rebellion, and leads to darkness and misery... but rarely do we realize. We may then practice yoga or doing dawa... only Allah knows who is actually into shirk and how much.

Peace brother and thanks for your kind reply!

hicham9

There seems to be only one demon though and that is Shaytan. He is insanely powerful with susceptible targets though. Watch our for disturbed feelings because they might as well be the evil one. Seek regular protection from the evil the evil one and his followers. God will surely help you if you put your Faith in Him.

Peace Man of Faith,

I believe the Holy Qur'an informs us that there is more than one shaytan (&#8206. actually, there are two kinds of shayatin (demonS, devils, satans, evil spirits); shayatin al-inss ( &#1616 and shayatin al-jinn ( &#1616.

Quoting from the true verbatim word of ALLAH

And thus did We make for every prophet an enemy, the Shaitans from among mankind and jinn, inspiring to one another varnished falsehood by way of deception, and had your Lord pleased they would not have done it, therefore leave them and that which they invent.

"shaytan" is not a name, but a title given to those who whisper into the hearts of men and women,
urging them to commit shirk (in specific) or other sins (in general). these can be either human or jinn.

http//corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?q=con%3Asatan (shayatin = evil ones)

SLM

....
Peace brother and thanks for your kind reply!

You've been warned my friend )

Peace be unto you.

Man_of_Faith

peace,

You are right, but I believe it all comes down to the same evil spirit, just that it has "different faces". Like I use to say, the evil one and his followers.

Regarding what you spoke of I have a different opinion and that it is a Jinn and Human soul inside every person. Well, that is complicated, but I tried to explain it in another thread.

We are born with two images when we are born, two halves. You can understand more by studying psychology which can actually provide material for philosophical thinking. The two halves can have different levels of dominance.

So you are right, an utterly Jinnic person can be referred to as such. Their Jinn image is dominant and has completely taken over conscious parts of the brain.

Now this is parapsychology with material derived from psychology, but I try to use acknowledged science to take first-hand information and more spiritual, quasi-science when conventional science is not enough.

I am sure there are not Jinns and Humans as separate units, they are the same beings.

Jinns are very weak to influence of Shaytan and that can cause a complete possession of an individual in worst case. I think Hitler and Nazi-Germany is one sign of that, for example. Many other signs are out there too.

God bless you

Zulf

I think there is enormously much we don't know, of course. There is one thing which I think we must be very careful about, and guard against, and that is the habit of convenience to assign blame on external things outside us, whether it be other people, other religions, other cultures, or even other beings like devils, spirits and what not. As soon as we shift blame onto anything outside us, no matter how justified it is in an "every day" context of cause and effect, we actually make ourselves into victims and throws away our responsibility and whatever power we have over our life. To blame on "the other" is to escape personal responsibility for our lives. Allah will not let things happen to us unfairly. Evil will not get to us unless we open the door. Ignorance and blame is to open that door and sell yourself in mental slavery.

We need to stop blaming everything on external entities.
We need to start being more humble in many different ways.
Humility leads home to God and the light. Resistance leads to arrogance and darkness, away from God. Real humility is not the same thing as kindness and generosity and "those things", it is much much bigger than that, and humility is the thing that humanity is lacking. We need real humility to be able to surrender to God. It is actually more or less the same thing.

This is what I generally think and it is not a response to anyone specific.
Peace all!