Who is "We" in quran verses?
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Peace with you all,
when I read Quran I found a lot of verses where "We" is illustrated confused, so what do you understand under "We"?.
God is always in singular, or is that "We" maybe just a false translation.Salaam Birdy,
From what I've investigated so far, I'm not sure right now. We could be the royal We, on the other hand it could signify something else. I also considered that We could be used to signify a 'rulership' a commanding type of action whereas Me and I is for when Allah signifies a closeness and intimacy - as He has with all of creation even when that creation turns away from Him, Allah still remains with them.
I have seen We used in terms of "We commanded..." or Our command such as 4252. Right now, to me this speaks of Allah's command. It could be there is something in the Arabic that indicates otherwise. If so, I believe this will become apparent in the rest of the message, even in a translation, as Allah is the one who bestows of knowledge.
I also felt like adding, sometimes people say that the Quran shifts from Me and I to We and Us in a verse or from one verse to the next. That is something that is easy to forget or change in the oral recitation, even by accident, it's just difficult to keep up with it and how can you be so sure if its Me or We in one particular verse as opposed to another? Apart from the poetry. Anyway, I know I mention this point a few times, so apologies for that, its just it sometimes really becomes apparent to me when reading or listening to the Quran.
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(red colored) Yes, that too, as it was also Dr. Rashad Khalifa's contribution and explanation of the use of "we".
Peace.
Agreed
Salaam,
"We" are not Allah, because Allah is alone. Please take a look at 2011-14, it uses "I" instead of "We", Allah knows how to say I )
mmKhanThank you brother
peace
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Peace, kylixguru.
I understand that God is actually a being of flesh and bone that is composed of a plurality of members. All of these members are members of a greater body, such as the apostle Paul often speaks of when he tries to get the early Christians to recognize that they are members of the body of Christ. See Ephesians 530 where he speaks of this body in terms of a flesh and bone body.
So, when God speaks as WE or US, it is the voice of a body of unified souls all functioning together under a covenant of union to act collectively as a single identity. The Hebrew word for Eloheim also contains an implied plurality aspect as well. You could think of God as a collective of purified and sanctified souls who have become "one" (like Jesus prayed for in the intercessory prayer) and who unitedly govern in all of the affairs of mankind. An "angel" would be a single identity or a single member of that divine "body" and the entire body of angels as a whole can be understood as God.
I can understand this position, and it makes a reasonable case, especially with regard to the aspect of unity. However, how does this position of godhood (divinity) continue after death? For example, if God is composed of flesh, blood and bone, and Adam and Eve were made in his image and likeness, then doesn't that mean God is capable of 'dying' just like us?
Also, what about the origination of God? In the Quran, God is also mentioned individually, with words like "I" and "Me". If this is referring to a unity, then it can be regarded as a contextual singularity, depending on the interpretation. However, it also appears to convey the idea that God, perhaps, is an individual person who works alongside a group, possibly being the figurehead (or leader) for them. If that's the case, then it raises some additional questions. For example, was there always a pantheon of divinities, or was there initially one god who had children (or something of the sort)? Did the current divinity (YHVH, Allah, etc.) inherit his position from someone else? What makes him greater than everyone else, to the degree of being called 'supreme' or 'almighty'?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Thank you for your kind and thoughtful words Ahmad. Peace unto you too.
I can understand this position, and it makes a reasonable case, especially with regard to the aspect of unity. However, how does this position of godhood (divinity) continue after death? For example, if God is composed of flesh, blood and bone, and Adam and Eve were made in his image and likeness, then doesn't that mean God is capable of 'dying' just like us?
My understanding is that the entire plan necessitates that God, in terms of being a body of flesh and bone, be capable of 'dying'. God keeps the very same laws that He gives.
When you look at Jehovah and Israel as marriage partners and you see that Israel was an adulterous bride and was 'stoned to death' (which was carried out when she was driven out of her promised land and scattered per Ezekiel 23) it would be unlawful for Jehovah to ever receive Israel as a bride again. However, when the husband also dies, then the woman is released from the 'law of her husband' and so she then becomes eligible to remarry anyone again. This is including her former husband if he is able to come back to life.
Therefore, in order for their to be a 'new covenant' (new marriage) between Jehovah and Israel, Jehovah had to die and to come back to life. After Jehovah's death, then Israel would be able to enter into that new marriage. This is one of the most critical things Jesus accomplished. He offered himself as a sacrifice to stand in Jehovah's place as Jehovah in order so that all of Israel would be eligible.
However, without going into too much detail, that wasn't everything that had to be accomplished. Life and death involve both physical and spiritual aspects and Jesus only carried out the physical. He was a lesser fulfillment that foreshadows the complete fulfillment yet to come. Which the Qur'an clearly points out.
If we can expect God's Word to be complete upon this subject, then we must believe that the complete fulfillment is also right in front of our noses and we just have to connect the dots to see it in plainness. As I see it, Adam is who carries it out on both the physical and spiritual aspects.
So, Israel isn't completely eligible until after Adam comes in the 6th Millennia and is cast out of the new Garden (new Jerusalem) and dies physically and spiritually, yet is redeemed from this state and regains His throne in victory. It is at this point when everything is fulfilled, contrary to what Christians think. Then, as a victorious King who overcomes both physical and spiritual death that a 'new bride' can be received on both a physical and spiritual level. Therefore, if Adam comes right at the end of the 6th Millennia, and His flesh and bone life spans almost one thousand years, what we see is Adam redeemed during the 7th Millennium as a victorious King over the Kingdom that God has given to Him. Upon Adam's redemption, He is the vehicle through which God re-creates Himself. Thus, you also have a brand new birth of a brand new cycle of Creation as well. So, you have both Day 7 (the Millennium) and Day 1 of the new cycle overlapping.
So, if we look at it in these terms, we should expect to be able to find somewhere a new flesh and bone manifestation of Adam who enters into a Garden of Eden but who transgresses and is driven out and who undergoes a period of punishment and death, but who eventually completely is transformed and redeemed and who regains all of the original and former glory He was ordained to have. And, that this body of authority shall institute and establish a governmental system that will bring in a thousand year 'golden age' of peace, for those who are in that society.Also, what about the origination of God? In the Quran, God is also mentioned individually, with words like "I" and "Me". If this is referring to a unity, then it can be regarded as a contextual singularity, depending on the interpretation. However, it also appears to convey the idea that God, perhaps, is an individual person who works alongside a group, possibly being the figurehead (or leader) for them. If that's the case, then it raises some additional questions. For example, was there always a pantheon of divinities, or was there initially one god who had children (or something of the sort)? Did the current divinity (YHVH, Allah, etc.) inherit his position from someone else? What makes him greater than everyone else, to the degree of being called 'supreme' or 'almighty'?
The context of holy writ should be looked at as being default pertaining to only a single cycle of Creation, which cycle lasts only about 7 thousand years. God has undergone self-re-creation over and over and over for billions of years, etc. As I see it, the theory of evolution starts to touch upon these questions. Religion only addresses the necessities of what it takes to carry out a single cycle, whereas science is where everything else is addressed. You are asking both a scientific and philosophical question now. For example, can Love ever die? Yes and no. Love as an absolute principle and potentiality is eternal in the literal sense. But, Love in the hearts of man can be extinguished. Only in that respect can you say that Love dies. I hope this helps clarify things some.
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Peace kalixguru,
Very controversial idea you have, but it was nevertheless interesting to read. I do not know if I am ready to agree although the story was intriguing.
God bless you
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Peace kalixguru,
Very controversial idea you have, but it was nevertheless interesting to read. I do not know if I am ready to agree although the story was intriguing.
God bless you
Thank you for giving it your time and attention. The obvious crux of this narrative is based upon taking the 6 days of Creation as pertaining to the 6 Millennial periods we have had according to Biblical reckoning of time since the last "beginning".
And, incidentally, if it is the Al-Kitaab you wish to tap into and read in plainness, then this gives you the keys of interpretation to open up this "book within the books", so to speak.
It is upon this basis that all world religions based on the faith of Abraham can come to terms with their place in the overall order of things. The creation account itself is the master blueprint for how a single cycle of Creation plays out. At the end of one cycle is the judgment "day", when Adam gives all the "creatures" their "new name" and a whole new cycle of Creation is organized and fore-ordained.
So, the question of who the "We" in the Qur'an pertains to is the being of flesh and bone that undergoes a process of self-re-creation. It involves spiritual union of various members who come together in a union of covenant that enables them to become "one flesh".
This is God. Adam, upon His redemption, creates (organizes) all of the "creatures" (souls of humanity) into a new religious/political/genealogical cosmos that shall play out in yet another cycle as we enter into a new heavens and a new earth. That cycle shall end with the generation of a new Adam who shall die and self-re-create in order for another cycle to play out, and so on and so on.
All those individual souls who understand Al-Kitaab in its fullness and who can see how all the truths in all of the branches of the Abrahamic faiths tie together into one seamless garment of truth and who receive the power and dominion to carry out all of the duties given to Adam are the members of Adams body. They are angels who together as a collective are literally God. Adam is our Father and our God.
And, it is those who refuse to reverence and pay respects to Adam that God has ordained Him to receive who find themselves in darkness and error. I love how the Qur'an makes this teaching about Adam so clear.
Note to the reader
I do not come from an Islamic background at all. What I have learned about Adam has been without the assistance of the Qur'an. But, what I am finding to my amazement is that in every point, the Qur'an is providing 100% confirmation of the controversial truths that Christianity rejects outright.I am so grateful for the Qur'an because without it there wouldn't be a strong second witness to most everything I have discovered. It appears to validate and point to the destination of the Father's Kingdom, which is Adam's Kingdom. All those who do find their way into the Kingdom will be those who can overcome the dogmatism of their various sects and embrace all truth. I hope my words here will contribute to this becoming a reality for many devout Muslims as well as Christians.
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My understanding is that the entire plan necessitates that God, in terms of being a body of flesh and bone, be capable of 'dying'. God keeps the very same laws that He gives.
Salaam,
You may want to ponder on this verse if you believe in the ayaats of the Quran.
672 The One who has created death and life, that He may test you, which of you will do better works? He is the Noble, the Forgiving.
Salaam,
Bender -
Salaam,
You may want to ponder on this verse if you believe in the ayaats of the Quran.
672 The One who has created death and life, that He may test you, which of you will do better works? He is the Noble, the Forgiving.
Salaam,
BenderWow! This is a miraculous confirmation!
This is what the version of the Qur'an English translation I use says surrounding that passage
1 Blessed is He in Whose hand is the kingdom, and He has power over all things,
2 Who created death and life that He may try you -- which of you is best in deeds; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving,
3 Who created the seven heavens one above another; you see no incongruity in the creation of the Beneficent God; then look again, can you see any disorder?It is into Adam's hand that God gives the Kingdom!
This is why there are those who are jealous. They knew what that meant.
It also says that in connection with being given dominion over the Kingdom it also confirms that Adam was ultimately given power over all things, and goes on to say that it is Adam who creates death and life (anew) and that Adam is who tries (judges) us all. This happens when Adam gives all the "creatures" their new "names". Our fates are fore-ordained in conjunction with what name we are given. Some are to become "fishes" (Christians), etc.It also uses a label that I'm familiar with being applied to the role Adam will fulfill once He is redeemed from physical and spiritual death. Adam is the "One Mighty and Strong" who shall set in order all things pertaining to Zion after the Man of Sin has usurped things for a time. 2 Thessalonians chapter 2. Adam returns to put down a standing apostasy, which apostasy resulted from Adam's transgression and fall and to Cain/Lucifer usurping the throne while Adam was in a fallen state.
Do recall, Adam isn't just a single individual person. Adam is a being of flesh and bone, which means this is a group of individuals who are given the High Priesthood of Melchizedek after the Order of the Son of God in order to perform all of these duties and responsibilities Adam was given. So, it isn't power that a person or even people hold in and of themselves. It is only power that manifests through them as they are brought unto a fullness of the understanding of how the heavens are created anew. It is Adam who totally reorganizes the next cycle of Creation and fore-ordains the fates of all souls in the resurrection. This is why at the end of Adam's life he could prophesy all things whatsoever that would befall His posterity until the end of time, which means until the end of that next cycle of creation. And, when that cycle is coming to a close a new Adam is manifested who goes through the same cycle of self-re-creation.
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Salaam,
"We" are not Allah, because Allah is alone. Please take a look at 2011-14, it uses "I" instead of "We", Allah knows how to say I )
Please note in 2011, the one who is giving us this info is someone else .- Musa was called.
- Called by whom? .
- Someone other than these two informing us about this incident.
Who are they? Who informed us? They are "WE". WE simply means US, it is not always referring to Malaaika , but sometimes yes, depends upon the context. Like for example
To Zachariyya, WE gave good tidings of a son, Yahya 197. Who are WE in this aayat? It is referring to Malaaika. Malaaika gave good tidings to Zachariyya of a son, Yahya 338-39. And also please check 1964.
I understand that WE are those who holds the authority from Allah; like power of attorney, to work on behalf of Him. And you already knew that power of attorney will not be given to anyone, but it is given to those who are very much reliable and loyal. So, WE includes Malaaika, Rooh, and others . WE is used simply to show a plural, and whom is it referring to depends upon the context.
To understand this properly, please take a look at 3949 and 398 and compare them, you will see what I as saying inshaAllah.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanso, the Quran is not a 100% God's word? it also words of Angels?
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so, the Quran is not a 100% God's word? it also words of Angels?
You missed my point bro. Please take a closer look to what I said. And remember, I am not here to give fatwas, you have to understand on your own. I am just sharing aayaat that I know on the topic in hand.
Anyways, please take a look at 6940 and see what you understand.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan