Sex must be the abstention during Ramadan
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but you can still do masturbation/ijtima I see, because the verse like 2187 only mentioning about sex with the wife.
2187 It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to
approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and
you are a garment for them......The Quran only prohibit sex during fasting, but doen't mention anything about masturbation.
Btw masturbation and sex is different agenda.
So rather than you sex with your couple you can change the alternative by doing masturbation. -
Peacen Earthdom,
I was rather hoping for a discussion on sex versus food versus not speaking. However, I guess your question is relevant. In my view then, as masturbation is basically a replacement for sex, faux sex if you like, I would say it's best to abstain from that too. Yes, you are right, the Koran does not state not to masturbate, but it also does not tell us not to do many things that are too obvious when we use our intelligence.
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dawngorgeous my brother,
Imho, fasting is an act of willing abstention from "all food and liquid" as well as sexual intercourse (for a defined period of time).
Fasting may also include abstaining from any falsehood in speech and action, abstaining from any ignorant and indecent speech, and from fighting, and having "lustful thoughts". Therefore, fasting strengthens control of impulses and helps develop good behavior. During the sacred month of Ramadan, believers strive to "purify" body and soul and increase their "Taqwa" (God-consciousness). This "purification" of body and soul harmonizes the inner and outer spheres of an individual.
Ps "I" believe that mastrubating breaks ones fasting (since its against "taqwa"
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Peace Hitcham,
I don't know what Taqwa is, I have never seen it in the Koran. To address the issue though, you make the important point that abstention, fasting, makes you a better person. Indeed, this may be true. For me abstention from sex is more of a hardship than abstention from food. This would also make me a better person.
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Peace Hitcham,
I don't know what Taqwa is, I have never seen it in the Koran.
Peace my brother,
Taqw (ى is the Quranic term that denotes God-consciousness, righteousness, mindfulness and piety.
I believe it is mentioned 17 times in the Qur'an, see http//corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?q=The term comes from the stem verb, ittaq (ى "to protect oneself" or "be wary," which, in turn, is derived from the triconsonantal root "ww qf y." See http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=wqy
Taqw plays a significant role in Islamic morals and ethics because it is what truly makes us "ethically aware" of our actions in relation to God Almighty. It gives us a reason to do the right thing. The awareness of God's power makes us want to please Him, making taqwa a moral and ethical base for our actions. Because of this construct, taqw is one of the "ideal ethical values" of Islam.
Quoting from the verbatim word of God
And (by) the soul and (HE) who molded it.
Then, inspired it its wickedness/impiety (ا and its righteousness/piety (ا.
He has succeeded who purifies it (ا, And he has failed who impurifies it (ا.http//quran.com/91/7-10
Hope this helps.
Peace be unto you ) -
there is no verses in the Quran that prohibit masturbation during fast.
Masturbation and sex is clearly different.Salam Earthdom, -[
Here are some questions that came to (my) mind-
Doesn't the Qur'an teach us to safeguard our private parts (and even our sights) from obscenity/misconduct (ة?
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Aren't all forms of sexual activity forbidden (in the Quran) except sexual intercourse between a husband and wife?
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Don't you feel "impure" and "ashamed" after mastrubating?! (be honest)
If not! then, how do you feel - let's say 5 mins - after reaching orgasm ? -
Aren't you just addicted to masturbating?
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Are you aware that, while masturbating, your brain is being shaped around a sexual experience that is isolating, visceral, and completely void of any love or compassion?
I believe this has the potential to lead to great problems in sexual compulsivity and sex addiction throughout ones life because the brain gets shaped to expect the "heroin-like" (porn) dopamine rush from all of his real-life sexual experiences. When one realizes that his actual sexual experiences are lacking this rush, he may seek out riskier and more visceral experiences that resonate with his early porn use. This is a scary vision for generations to come where men's brains have been "porno-sized" to lead to a lifetime of sexual pathology. Doesn't this (psychological fact) illustrate that mastrubating is a "negative" act?!
Just being honest.
Salam -X -
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Peace ahlan hicham9
- Doesn't the Qur'an teach us to safeguard our private parts (and even our sights) from obscenity/misconduct (ة?
- Aren't all forms of sexual activity forbidden (in the Quran) except sexual intercourse between a husband and wife?
So according to you the masturbation is one of the fahisyaa, but can you proof what verse in Quran that prohibit masturbation.
235-6 And they keep covered their private parts.Except around their mates, or those who are maintained by their oaths, they are free from blame.
From that verse I will give you some similiar sentence
"Keep your money except to your wife"We ordered to keep our money except to our wife, this means we only permitted to show our money to our wifes, but it doesn't means we cannot use that money because that money is our own money.
So verse 235-6, that we must protect our private part except to our wife, but doesn't mean we cannot do something with our private part because its our own private part..There is nothing prohibiton of masturbations mention in Quran and hadith, but we can found story of mujjahidin who allowed to do masturbation by Prophet Muhammad (I forget what hadis is this).
Btw in Sunni not all madzab categorized masturbation/istimna as haram.- Don't you feel "impure" and "ashamed" after mastrubating?! (be honest)
If not! then, how do you feel - let's say 5 mins - after reaching orgasm ?
No I'm not feel any of that, instead I feel rilexs, why u saw masturb as negative, despite it's like we do sex without a mate.
According to statistics 90% of male in this world ever do masturbation.
Do you know masturbation is a sex-simulation, you must not saw the masturbation from negative side, but the positive side too like increase immune system, prevent prostate cancer etc.Masturbation is also recomended to prevent someone for doing adultery especially for men or woman who still single, even some ulamas say this too.
As long as we not get addictive or not do masturb with watching p**n, we are safe.- Aren't you just addicted to masturbating?
- Are you aware that, while masturbating, your brain is being shaped around a sexual experience that is isolating, visceral, and completely void of any love or compassion?
This is a scary vision for generations to come where men's brains have been "porno-sized" to lead to a lifetime of sexual pathology. Doesn't this (psychological fact) illustrate that mastrubating is a "negative" act?!
No, i'm not aware, because I'm not an addict or porn addict.
Btw if masturbate make a person's brain became porn shaped then real sexual activity can also make porn shaped brain too )Salam
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Peace guys,
Can I gently bring you back to the topic in hand, abstention during Ramadan sex, food or chat?
Dawn.
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Peace dawngeorgous
The verse of 2187 is single clearly verse about prohibition during fasting
2187 It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray your souls so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God has written for you. And you may eat(wakuluu) and drink(washrabuu) until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in the temples. These are the boundaries of God, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God clarifies His revelations to the people who they may be righteous
So according to that verse, what is prohibit during fasting are food,drink, and sex.
It's impossible we don't talk for one month, because we as human is a social being that we will get contacted to another people despite we want avoid that.
I ever found tread in this forum that claiming the fasting is not talk to other people, but I forgot what tread, maybe you can search yourself.
But the verse of the base used is 1926.?So eat and drink and be content. If you see any human being, then say ?I have vowed an abstinence for the Almighty, so I will
not talk today to any of mankind.??If we look surrounding verses, this verse actually Maryam's commitment not Allah's commandment.Because 1926 is not Allah's commandment so that's why we don't need to follow it since it's Maryam's own initiative.
Differ from verse 2187, this verse is real Allah's commandment or order. -
Peace,
If it was only sex which was prohibited during the fasting then some people would have a really easy time and it was no challenge. There are people who do not have much sex drive.
Food and drink is harder on the other hand though, especially if you need to be on the move during the day.
God bless you
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Peace Man of Faith,
I think it is on this very subject that God reminds us that he doesn't want to make life difficult for us?
Just a thought.
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Peace,
Depends on how you interpret not wanting to make difficult. I think it means by confusing rules and restrictions. And God is right about that of course, His religion is not difficult to follow if you stay clear of conjecture.
God bless you
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Peace,
I considered if fasting was also abstaining from sexual intercourse as well. Given the way the verses were. but then, the issue of fasting would just be abstaining from sexual intercourse during the day, which one would expect most people would be doing anyway. So, in that case it would be that every day people were/are fasting. Add to that if you believe zina refers to sexual intercourse, and people are always fasting from sexual intercourse unless they are married. But I don't think sexual intercourse is the same drive as food and water and speaking.
In terms of sawm, there's a thread by mmkhan, which I found very helpful and he presented his approach that fasting is abstaining from speech. Even if we say the whole world would fall into chaos if we had to do this, then we have to consider how long Ramadan actually is, it could be just a set number of days not the month. in addition, doesn't Zachariah also abstain from speaking, but does so for three nights? I'm not sure if this is related. In translations, it says that for important things Zachariah needed to mention he used a sign to do so but would not have engaged in conversation - he told them by signs to glorify Allah swt. So that could be something that would be done. However, those who do believe fasting is abstaining from speech are fewer, so I'm not sure its an issue at all. Do we all fast at the same time as well? And I once read somewhere about the way that Ramadan literally means intense heat... does this bear any relevance?
I'm asking questions as I myself am still looking into this matter, but it does seem to me right now as though the eating and drinking part of the verses is metaphorical and it mentions about fasting as those before you did... those before us included Maryam. As she abstained from speech, maybe one thing is to look at the context to understand why she did it - does this indicate that we fast in a context rather than just a set time? Possibly, again I'm still looking into it and I'm just thinking about different conclusions.
I don't rule out that its also about not eating and drinking literally. I didn't intend on this post being this long, but it sort of wrote itself.
I think it's good that you are considering different possibilites though. As always, we take each matter to Allah swt as He is the best Guide.
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Peace Family,
When fasting during the month of ramadan, we are to abstain from the two basic
human needs, and they are food and sex. This is to gain spiritual growth and physical dicipline.Permitted for you is sexual intercourse with your wives during the nights of fasting. They are the keepers of your secrets, and you are the keepers of their secrets. GOD knew that you used to betray your souls, and He has redeemed you, and has pardoned you. Henceforth, you may have intercourse with them, seeking what GOD has permitted for you. You may eat and drink until the white thread of light becomes distinguishable from the dark thread of night at dawn. Then, you shall fast until sunset. Sexual intercourse is prohibited if you decide to retreat to the masjid (during the last ten days of Ramadan). These are GOD's laws; you shall not transgress them. GOD thus clarifies His revelations for the people, that they may attain salvation.
Fasting is for the month of Ramadan
Ramadan is the month during which the Quran was revealed, providing guidance for the people, clear teachings, and the statute book. Those of you who witness this month shall fast therein.
In the other thread Mariam and Zachiriah who both fast due to an oath is not the fast
of ramadan, the ayats pertaining to fasting during the month of ramadan are 2/183-187.Fasting is not a punishment but a benefit, gives the digesive system a rest, one has a
chance to work on bad habits, also another benefit is to take a rest or divert our
attention from worldly pursuits and to focus on God (taqwa)Beating the meat, choking the chicken, or playing in love box is sex, the point of sex is
orgasm or gratification of some kind no matter how the feat is accomplished. Some
people get off by getting beat, Therefore in the spirit of the fast one should desist from
such activity during the fast. One point of ramadan is to teach dicipline, to free us
from the slavery of desire. Therefore circumventing the intentions of the fast serves
no useful purpose.Peace,
Depends on how you interpret not wanting to make difficult. I think it means by confusing rules and restrictions. And God is right about that of course, His religion is not difficult to follow if you stay clear of conjecture.
God bless youAgreed
ONE GOD
peace
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Peace,
Many people would have no challenge if it would be only abstention from sex. Not all people have a crazy sex drive. And according to the Quran you can have sex when the night approaches and that is when many couples normally have sex anyway. So it would feel illogical that ramadhan fasting was only abstention from sex.
Apart from that, I feel the Quran is pretty clear what a typical fasting includes.
For northern countries that are bright long into the night in summers, fast until the sun disappears and is no longer clearly visible. Do not make your religion difficult for yourselves. God judges intention, not military style behavior. And remember you are forgiven if you cannot fulfill your daily fast. Just stop fasting if you honestly suffer and give a coin or two in the charity box instead and apologize to the One who sent you.
A trick to more easily survive fasting is to not waste food during the whole year outside Ramadhan. Do not be a glutton and always eat moderately and your body will more easily adapt to the change in diet during the fasting. You can also gradually prepare the body for Ramadhan before it starts by eating less and longer periods between the meals. It is the habit of eating and what the body is physically used to which is hardest during Ramadhan. Another is to steam up the engine in the morning with activities and your hunger will be dampened since the body will suppress your hunger instinctively to allow you to hunt (ancient trick).
Thinking about food and hunger will have devastating consequences and we should instead get the hormones running hard during the day so the body will suppress the hunger. Sure you will be reminded, but you will not suffer as much.
I guess the fasting is prescribed by God to control our intake of food and drinks, and that we better learn to appreciate the good things in life. And by chance we feel more empathic towards all the children in the poor regions of Africa and other parts of the world. Maybe even the impoverished man and his family next doors.
Some people go through hunger every day all year around. They can never eat so they are no longer hungry.
Realize this the next time you fast and you may open your purse/wallet more often.
Guess this is why the alternative to fast is to feed a poor person instead. To feed even more people is better although fasting is best.
Fasting is also prescribed as a punishment for several bad things one may do, like breaking an oath unless you can afford feeding ten people.
We should show that we clearly regret what we pledged that we would do but we did not.
I have observed a three day fast because of a broken oath once. I did it even if I paid my charity, as an intensifier to my crime. God does not forbid you to show your fear and respect of God a little extra. God does not forbid us to use our own intuition.
We shall always be aware of our short-comings and lies and betrayals. All of them are sins, even if we use a "white lie" we must atone for it. In the utopian life we should never lie ever, no white lies nothing, always the Truth.
I sometimes lie to avoid "complicated situations", but it is wrong. It is usually best to say the Truth even if it hurts, but know I am not perfect and my comfort makes me take to lies sometimes. Guessing it is sometimes to always work on, to be pure enough so lies are inconvenient or simply refrain from actions necessitating the lying nature to emerge.
I have become better than I used to be and I take to the frankness most of the time even when I have done embarrassing or things my wife will react negatively upon and will be "barked" at by my wife. Better than lying in my opinion, at least I have a cleansed heart even for my wife's harsh treatment.
Sorry, now I drifted off-topic and talk about things entirely different from the thread's aim.
God bless you
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In terms of sawm, there's a thread by mmkhan, which I found very helpful and he presented his approach that fasting is abstaining from speech. Even if we say the whole world would fall into chaos if we had to do this, then we have to consider how long Ramadan actually is, it could be just a set number of days not the month. in addition, doesn't Zachariah also abstain from speaking, but does so for three nights? I'm not sure if this is related. In translations, it says that for important things Zachariah needed to mention he used a sign to do so but would not have engaged in conversation - he told them by signs to glorify Allah swt. So that could be something that would be done. However, those who do believe fasting is abstaining from speech are fewer, so I'm not sure its an issue at all. Do we all fast at the same time as well? And I once read somewhere about the way that Ramadan literally means intense heat... does this bear any relevance?
Sorry I disagree from some mmkhan's intepretation such like he didn't believe Nabi Muhammad as our Prophet.
Plus he also stated that he is not expert in Arabic language (search his statement in this thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604387.0)Sorry mmkhan, This not mean I wrote this because I hate you brother, but it's just my argument for strengthened our faith together.
Fasting is not a punishment but a benefit, gives the digesive system a rest, one has a
chance to work on bad habits, also another benefit is to take a rest or divert our
attention from worldly pursuits and to focus on God (taqwa)Yeah I agree with you.This world is just for test and sawm is just for testing our faith yeah
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Peace everyone,
A couple of things I should have added to that earlier post are that the verses related to fasting in Ramadan in Surah Baqarah are immediately followed up by metaphorical ways of saying 'eat' - such as eat up property etc. 2188, which some could assert is showing the metaphorical way the language is used in the Quran. I just find that quite poignant that Allah swt uses a metaphor in such a way straight after the verses on fasting, descriptions of 'eating and drinking'.
Does anyone know if the Quran itself refers to any example of a Messenger or any other group of believers where they abstain from food and drink? If it does, it would be nice to compare verses...
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Peace.Sorry for distubing you, sis supportpeacenotwar.
Can you abstain from speaking for many hours and for one month?
Do you know if human is a social creature, and speaking is like breathing cannot be avoided.Plus most of the human's activities need speaking.
Abstain of speaking is even more worse than abstain from eat and drink.If eat and drink in 2187 is metaphorical then what is eat-drink in 2187 according to you, peacenotwar?
Plus if we looking the verse of Zakharia in 1911 which accused as commandment of fasting
1910 He said ?My Lord, make for me a sign.? He said ?Your sign is that
you will not speak to the people for three nights consecutively.?See.Where is direct Allah's commandment for fasting from that verse?That was just a sign for Zacharia for getting a son.
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Peace brother,
As I mentioned, I'm still considering different conclusions. I think eat and drink 2187 could be metaphorically talking about enjoying/consuming - which I believe dawngorgeous included in the first post. The point would be if eat can be used metaphorically to refer to property in those following verses ( or when it refers to those who fill their stomach with hellfire because of some of the evil things they do) then its possible it refers to eat metaphorically in the fasting verses. If you disagree, that's not an issue you are free to follow what you think is the best interpretation and I will consider what I think is the best interpretation. God swt did not give us the Quran so we could start to argue, compete and hurt each other over the meanings of the verses.
In terms of Ramadan itself, I am looking into whether it means we fast in Ramadan for a certain amount of time - a certain amount of days or for the whole month.
I believe I could abstain from communication for a certain amount of days, perhaps not a month - its possible to take oaths of silence so I'd consider it in the same way.
The issue about it being impractical, well.... I noticed dawngorgeous made a point about how when people eat a full meal at night in the summer at the end of the fast and then eat a full meal at dawn just hours later. This can also be considered an impracticality. So you see, I'm trying to look at this in different ways.
Yes, I agree with you that Zachariah is not fasting as such, but Maryam is... so if you have an answer to the question Does anyone know if the Quran itself refers to any example of a Messenger or any other group of believers where they abstain from food and drink? If it does, it would be nice to compare verses...
I'd greatly appreciate a response to that, whether yourself or anyone else. It'd really help.
The reason I ask this is because like mmkhan mentioned, the verses about fasting refers to those before you... so we can refer to the example of Maryam, or other believers.
I hope that we can agree to disagree should we need to, otherwise we are no different from those particular Sunnis who can't accept that we don't want to follow hadith like they do. I also hope we can continue discussing this in a calm way as we are, because in all honesty, I have found this forum to be like a competition with each other at times. To make the best point in relation to someone else, to win a debate or something, and its saddening really and I find this to be prejudiced behaviour. It doesn't reflect to me the behaviour of believers. I try to be positive on here towards other people and I sometimes receive it back and sometimes I don't. And in all honesty, the type of behaviour I'm talking about renders discussion useless really. All of that is not directed at you, so please don't take it personally, it's just we did get into that difficult discussion before and I've noticed in general this behaviour on this site. Although I'd like to say, I greatly appreciate the way we are discussing right now.
This is a long post, but I wanted to get those points down because I think they're all relevant.
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If you disagree, that's not an issue you are free to follow what you think is the best interpretation and I will consider what I think is the best interpretation. God swt did not give us the Quran so we could start to argue, compete and hurt each other over the meanings of the verses.
Yes of course. Like you said in another thread to me "you to yours, me to mine"
In terms of Ramadan itself, I am looking into whether it means we fast in Ramadan for a certain amount of time - a certain amount of days or for the whole month.
The issue about it being impractical, well.... I noticed dawngorgeous made a point about how when people eat a full meal at night in the summer at the end of the fast and then eat a full meal at dawn just hours later. This can also be considered an impracticality. So you see, I'm trying to look at this in different ways.
Me also still confused because of this, but there is some good reference from past threads in this board, just read them.
Yes, I agree with you that Zachariah is not fasting as such, but Maryam is... so if you have an answer to the question Does anyone know if the Quran itself refers to any example of a Messenger or any other group of believers where they abstain from food and drink? If it does, it would be nice to compare verses...
For Maryam the answer is topmost post in previous page.
For bold questions, not all kind of things in the Quran have Prophetic examples. There are like inheritance, fasting, zakat, even the salat.I hope that we can agree to disagree should we need to, otherwise we are no different from those particular Sunnis who can't accept that we don't want to follow hadith like they do. I also hope we can continue discussing this in a calm way as we are, because in all honesty, I have found this forum to be like a competition with each other at times. To make the best point in relation to someone else, to win a debate or something, and its saddening really and I find this to be prejudiced behaviour. It doesn't reflect to me the behaviour of believers. I try to be positive on here towards other people and I sometimes receive it back and sometimes I don't. And in all honesty, the type of behaviour I'm talking about renders discussion useless really. All of that is not directed at you, so please don't take it personally, it's just we did get into that difficult discussion before and I've noticed in general this behaviour on this site. Although I'd like to say, I greatly appreciate the way we are discussing right now.
Myself also didn't like debate, but I more like the term discussion, syuro' or musyawarroh.(see 423
Debate often became negative like raising emotion, create useless hostility and often give baseless and deceitful statements to strike the opponent.The disadvantage of emotion from medical prespective can be read in Mr Fazlur articles in this thread.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605160.0