Circumcision: The Way of Prophet Abraham
-
Salam Israfeel,
Circumcision is not discussed in the Quran as far as I am aware.
In regards to Ahadith, yes it is mentioned however it is a Sunnah and different schools of thoughts have different rulings on the matter.
A circumcised man is generally preferred over a non circumcised man however, it is not a fard i.e Hanafi and Malaki school of thought do not believe it is a fard.
Parents make their own decisions about their children's health and body well being (including circumcision).
There is information for and against circumcision and one shouldn't just blindly adhere to decisions because of social practises.
BTW 2223 doesn't mention anything about God loving the purified. I guess you meant 2222. However you're correlating different topics. Moreover, the hadiths I have read on circumcision talk about fitra not tahara that's two different things, though my knowledge on the matter is limited and maybe you know otherwise?
Thanks for your response. I do not believe in Hanafi or Maliki schools of thought. As a follower of Hadith, I believe circumcision is fard, as this is very clear from the Ahadith of our Prophet peace be upon him as recorded in the Bukhari Sharif.
Also I do mean 2223 since I believe that Bismillah is an Ayah of the Quran, and therefore the correct ayah number is 2223
Fitrah means what is natural, and what Allah created as our natural disposition. Therefore isn't taharah (purity) part of man's nature? Doesn't a baby naturally cry when he has a dirty diaper? This is from the Fitra to be clean and pure, and this is why circumcision is part of the fitrah.
-
No problem.
Regardless of what scholar or scholarly knowledge you follow you claim to follow the sunnah as do they (Hanafi and Malaki) yet they have different conclusions than you. This shows how you (and they) view, accept or interpret hadith is subjective. Unless you know of a none faulty methodology you'd like to share? if so, please let me know. However, if it is just following Bukhari Sharif, I'd advise you research a bit more about Imam Bukhari before accepting all his hadiths as infallible sources. Also care to share the hadith?
Following an unconventional number format based on including bismillah can mislead or confuse people. So thanks for clarifying however you do understand it can confuse people?? so maybe in future you could mention including bismillah in the count.
Define natural disposition? if a child is born with 6 toes on 1 foot is that a natural disposition?
Being born with foreskin doesn't make you unnatural.
A baby does not naturally cry when s/he has a dirty diaper. Children have different temperaments some children cry because of a dirty diaper others do not. According to your logic all babies should cry until they are circumcised (sounds silly right)
Fitrah can refer to what is natural, can refer to instincts and inbuilt dispositions.
Tahara is a conditioned act, For example tahara isn't simply about being "CLEAN" take for example 9103 in which giving wealth is tahara.
There are many forms of purity but I believe your focus is on cleanliness. Cleanliness isn't part of mans nature but part of social practices, it is a learnt habit.
Tahara and Fitra are different.
If you believe circumcision is part of being clean based on your research, that's fine that's your choice but I doubt you'd convince everyone and you can't really make it an obligation or prohibition as Allah swt is the law maker.
I hope that makes sense
Salam.
-
Here are a few questions I have for Hadith rejectors who say that since circumcision is not mentioned in the Quran, it is not necessary
-
Going by this line of reasoning, removal of pubic hair, armpit hair, and trimming of fingernails and toenails when they become long or dirty are not mentioned in the Holy Quran either. Therefore, according to Hadith rejectors, will such people who do not remove pubic hair, armpit hair, nails, etc., be considered as sinful or not? Western and non-Muslim people do not remove pubic hair/armpit hair, do Hadith rejectors follow their culture also since it is not forbidden in Quran?
-
Nowhere in the Quran does it say that urine, stool, maniyy, madhiyy (seminal fluid), vomit, is impure. According to Hadith-rejectors will a person be sinful if he does not wash off these things from his body or clothes?
-
According to Hadith-rejectors, will a person be sinful for (God forbid) drinking these things which are not explicitly declared impure in the Quran, as this is the culture of many Westerners/non-Muslims?
-
According to the Quran, the meat of swine is forbidden, but nowhere in the Quran does it say that the perspiration or saliva of swine, or any other animal for that matter, is impure. If these things get onto the clothes or body of a Hadith-rejector, will he be sinful for not washing them off, or praying while traces of a pig's saliva or perspiration is on his body and/or clothes?
-
Nowhere in the Quran does it say that urine, dung, or seminal fluid of any animal is impure. Are these things halal for Hadith-rejectors, and will a Hadith rejector be sinful for touching, drinking, or not removing these traces from his body and clothes?
If you reject circumcision and say it is not mentioned in the Quran, then how will you answer the above five questions?
(1) All those can attract and maintain dirt on the body. You have already said earlier what the Quran says about physical purity.
(4) The previous point still applies...furthermore, we are to strive to keep our clothes as clean as we can
"And your clothing purify"
"And uncleanliness avoid"
(Sahih International)
If for some reason you're covered in animal sweat the normal thing to do would be to want to wash yourself and your clothes, I assume (more on this line of thinking at the end of the post)2, 3, 5 are similar points so I'll try to tackle them together if you don't mind. Firstly and briefly, see 1666
"And indeed, for you in grazing livestock is a lesson. We give you drink from what is in their bellies - between excretion and blood - pure milk, palatable to drinkers."
(Sahih International) (stress added by myself)Moving towards a more general principle on the matter
"O mankind, eat from whatever is on earth lawful and good and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy."
"O you who have believed, do not prohibit the good things which Allah has made lawful to you and do not transgress. Indeed, Allah does not like transgressors."
(Sahih International) (stress on 2168 added by myself)
"lawful and good"? The word used, tayyiban, means good/pure. Obviously, what is lawful may not be good/pure ie it may not be clean or something, and vice versa. But there is a distinction to be made between something being unlawful to eat and something being impure, hence why they were seperated out, right? Tying into my point regarding (4) we have common sense. The Quran promotes logic and the use of reason, I doubt you would disagree with this notion. Notably
"He gives wisdom to whom He wills, and whoever has been given wisdom has certainly been given much good. And none will remember except those of understanding."
"Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are the deaf and dumb who do not use reason."
(Sahih International)
With this is mind...frankly, I would argue that, along the same lines of circumcision, if the consumption of stool, vomit etc was somehow not impure/bad then the Quran would state so as it only seems to be the logical thing to do to abstain from consuming such things, right? More inherantly logical than cutting off a part of our skin, atleast. On culture, every culture has good and bad elements to it, personally I don't think I know anyone, muslim or non-muslim, who seems to consume dung and animal stool (maybe some do in secret, I can't be sure I suppose) despite it not explicitly being unlawful because no one seems to regard it as "good". If that makes sense. Impure things to consume are not limited to what you listed, heck the 'list' has probably only grown over time, so naturally the principles must be applied. -
-
Fresh dates are good for you and apparently Muhammed liked and ate them. So according to your logic, are eating dates mandated by God?
You have made statements that are clearly not true. Instead of addressing and answering direct simple questions, you have circumbulated with your logical fallacies.
Anyhow, you made the statement that circumcision is mandated by God. By the way, God is also member of this forum listening and everything we say and do are indeed permanently recorded on God's tablet which we all at the end have to answer to. God has given us a stern warning not to say "this is from God..." without knowledge, saying what our tongues make up, and imputing lies about God. I keep that in mind.
I suggest that before you say anything about God you best be sure of what you are saying. If you are a proponent of circumcision because of tradition, culture, cosmetic, medical or whatever the reasons, that's fine and none of the reasons would be contradictory to the Koran (in other words not a sin) but to say that God mandated circumcision is a lie. It is a sin to lie about God.
You lie about God, you bear the grave consequences. Putting aside personal consequences, my reverence to God is such that I would not lie about God. If I say anything that is not true, it is out of pure ignorance/lack of better understanding and when someone points out the truths or the error in my ways or understanding, I listen and think about it as surely I do not want to believe in lies told about God and to spread such lies.
Israfeel, several people here have pointed out your logical fallicies. You can choose to continue in your beliefs and arguing. That is your choice. At the end, each soul has to answer to God. I choose to believe in the Truths and not lies. To say that God mandated circumcision is a lie.
-
No problem.
Regardless of what scholar or scholarly knowledge you follow you claim to follow the sunnah as do they (Hanafi and Malaki) yet they have different conclusions than you. This shows how you (and they) view, accept or interpret hadith is subjective. Unless you know of a none faulty methodology you'd like to share? if so, please let me know. However, if it is just following Bukhari Sharif, I'd advise you research a bit more about Imam Bukhari before accepting all his hadiths as infallible sources. Also care to share the hadith?
Hanafis, Malikis and other schools of thought teach to blindly follow their Imams, a concept which is called Taqlid. Thus those schools of thought give preference to the verdicts of jurists over and above the Hadith. On the other hand I belong to the Ahlil Hadith sect which gives preference to Hadith over the verdict of any imam or school of thought.
So there are several Ahadith which prove that circumcision is obligatory. For example the Hadith in Bukhari Sharif narrated by Abu Huraira that the Prophet peace be upon him said "Five practices are characteristics of the Fitra circumcision, shaving the pubic hair, cutting the moustaches short, clipping the nails, and depilating the hair of the armpits." It is interesting that Hanafis and Malikis consider all these practices as fard with exception of circumcision. But logically all of these five things should have the same ruling.
Another Hadith in Abu Dawud Sharif mentions that a person accepted Islam at the hands of the Prophet peace be upon him, who commanded him to shave off his head from the hair of disbelief and to get circumcised. Based on this Hadith if a man accepts Islam he must shave off his head and if he is uncircumcised he must get circumcised.
Another Hadith which is reported in four books of the Sihhah us Sita where the Prophet peace be upon him said that at the time of the Aqiqah of a newborn baby (on the seventh day) the harmful thing should be removed, referring to the foreskin.
Therefore based on these Ahadith it is clear that circumcision is in fact obligatory, and those who refuse circumcision are committing a sin.
-
(1) All those can attract and maintain dirt on the body. You have already said earlier what the Quran says about physical purity.
(4) The previous point still applies...furthermore, we are to strive to keep our clothes as clean as we can
"And your clothing purify"
"And uncleanliness avoid"
(Sahih International)Thanks for agreeing that the Quran gives general principles encouraging purity, but the details of what exactly that means are not mentioned. Now my question to you is that why you have a problem with circumcision but you agree the other things which are not mentioned in the Quran? There seems to be an inconsistency on your part. All of this only proves how much Islam is incomplete without the Hadith.
If for some reason you're covered in animal sweat the normal thing to do would be to want to wash yourself and your clothes, I assume (more on this line of thinking at the end of the post)
You "assume"? My friend why do we have to assume? We can follow the Hadith with certainty which instructs us how to purify from these things. As I said before, Quran only gives the general principles, details are in the Hadith.
2, 3, 5 are similar points so I'll try to tackle them together if you don't mind. Firstly and briefly, see 1666
"And indeed, for you in grazing livestock is a lesson. We give you drink from what is in their bellies - between excretion and blood - pure milk, palatable to drinkers."
(Sahih International) (stress added by myself)So it says milk is pure, but it never said that the cow excretion is impure. In fact only two fluids are declared impure in the Quran, wine and flowing blood. Nowhere in Quran does it say urine, stool, sperm, discharge, vomit, perspiration and saliva of various animals, etc. is impure. You can only say with certainty these things are impure if you go by the Hadith.
Now if you say it is common sense that those things are impure and should be avoided, then I also say it is common sense to do circumcision. What makes your common sense more valid than mine?
And it is true that in many cultures, especially in the West, they do weird sexual things like "golden showers" and oral sex, drinking sperm, etc., I don't want to go into the details because there may be young kids and women reading, but you know what i mean. Where in the Quran does it condemn their evil practices?
-
Another Hadith in Abu Dawud Sharif mentions that a person accepted Islam at the hands of the Prophet peace be upon him, who commanded him to shave off his head from the hair of disbelief and to get circumcised. Based on this Hadith if a man accepts Islam he must shave off his head and if he is uncircumcised he must get circumcised.
Therefore based on these Ahadith it is clear that circumcision is in fact obligatory, and those who refuse circumcision are committing a sin.Assalamu'alaikum Israfeel.
Did you realize if this forum is Quran alone forums, that means they including me intepretating Quran without hadith.
So it's pointless if you using hadith as your bases of your argument since Quran aloners reject will reject it.As I stated in the previous post,it's pointless to do debate like this because the way of intepretating Quran by Quran alone and Sunni is differently each other .
I was former Sunni, but five month ago I joining Quran alone.If I still Sunni I will accept all madzab fiqh teaching (Hanafi, Malikis, Salafi) and all hadith you posting but now as Quran alone I will not recognize that
-
Fresh dates are good for you and apparently Muhammed liked and ate them. So according to your logic, are eating dates mandated by God?
Not mandated, but it is good to eat dates. Even the Quran mentions dates many times.
Anyhow, you made the statement that circumcision is mandated by God. By the way, God is also member of this forum listening and everything we say and do are indeed permanently recorded on God's tablet which we all at the end have to answer to. God has given us a stern warning not to say "this is from God..." without knowledge, saying what our tongues make up, and imputing lies about God. I keep that in mind.
What is mandated by the Prophet peace be upon him is mandated by God "Whosoever obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah" (Surah 481)
-
Assalamu'alaikum Israfeel.
Did you realize if this forum is Quran alone forums, that means they including me intepretating Quran without hadith.
So it's pointless if you using hadith as your bases of your argument since Quran aloners reject will reject it.As I stated in the previous post,it's pointless to do debate like this because the way of intepretating Quran by Quran alone and Sunni is differently each other .
I was former Sunni, but five month ago I joining Quran alone.If I still Sunni I will accept all madzab fiqh teaching (Hanafi, Malikis, Salafi) and all hadith you posting but now as Quran alone I will not recognize that
If you reject Hadith and only go by Quran-alone, please answer these five questions
-
Going by this line of reasoning, removal of pubic hair, armpit hair, and trimming of fingernails and toenails when they become long or dirty are not mentioned in the Holy Quran either. Therefore, according to Hadith rejectors, will such people who do not remove pubic hair, armpit hair, nails, etc., be considered as sinful or not? Western and non-Muslim people do not remove pubic hair/armpit hair, do Hadith rejectors follow their culture also since it is not forbidden in Quran?
-
Nowhere in the Quran does it say that urine, stool, maniyy, madhiyy (seminal fluid), vomit, is impure. According to Hadith-rejectors will a person be sinful if he does not wash off these things from his body or clothes?
-
According to Hadith-rejectors, will a person be sinful for (God forbid) drinking these things which are not explicitly declared impure in the Quran, as this is the culture of many Westerners/non-Muslims?
-
According to the Quran, the meat of swine is forbidden, but nowhere in the Quran does it say that the perspiration or saliva of swine, or any other animal for that matter, is impure. If these things get onto the clothes or body of a Hadith-rejector, will he be sinful for not washing them off, or praying while traces of a pig's saliva or perspiration is on his body and/or clothes?
-
Nowhere in the Quran does it say that urine, dung, or seminal fluid of any animal is impure. Are these things halal for Hadith-rejectors, and will a Hadith rejector be sinful for touching, drinking, or not removing these traces from his body and clothes?
-
-
Therefore based on these Ahadith it is clear that circumcision is in fact obligatory, and those who refuse circumcision are committing a sin.
Per God, those who follow other than the Koran are astray. Those who distort, twist God's words, imputing lies about God are committing a sin.
According to your hadiths, circumcision may be obligatory. But not according to God. You are committing a sin by telling lies about God. Israfeel, you will at the end have to answer to God of what you say. I suggest that you think about what you are saying and doing. One sure way of securing yourself a spot in hell is to spread lies about God.
-
Salamun'alaikum Israfeel
Ok I will answer you questions
First I don't understand your english, maybe you aren't english speaker.
My answer is simpleIf it's not in the Quran then it's not Allah's commandment
Because
456 These are the revelations of God, We recite them to you with the truth. So, in which narrative after God and His revelations do
they believe?7750 So in what narrative, after it, will they believe?
See the blue word is in the Mushaf,
This mean like this
77.50 So in what hadis, after it, will they believe?
So the Sunnah/hadith is Quran itself, not anything else.And there is verse which order us not to following hadith beside Quran even Prophet Muhammad was ordered the same.
6940 This is the utterance of an honorable messenger.
6941 It is not the utterance of a poet; rarely do you believe.
6942 Nor the utterance of a soothsayer; rarely do you take heed.
6943 A revelation from the Lord of the worlds.
6944 And had he attributed anything falsely to Us.
6945 We would have seized him by the right.
6946 Then, We would have severed his life-line -
What is mandated by the Prophet peace be upon him is mandated by God "Whosoever obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah" (Surah 481)
The only "mandate" that prophet Muhammed gave was to follow the Koran.
-
Peace,
Who needs hadith to understand the impure nature of urine or any other thing like this?
God bless you
-
Salamun'alaikum Israfeel
Ok I will answer you questions
First I don't understand your english, maybe you aren't english speaker.
My answer is simpleIf it's not in the Quran then it's not Allah's commandment
So for you it is not haram to do any of the things i asked in my five questions
-
Going by this line of reasoning, removal of pubic hair, armpit hair, and trimming of fingernails and toenails when they become long or dirty are not mentioned in the Holy Quran either. Therefore, according to Hadith rejectors, will such people who do not remove pubic hair, armpit hair, nails, etc., be considered as sinful or not? Western and non-Muslim people do not remove pubic hair/armpit hair, do Hadith rejectors follow their culture also since it is not forbidden in Quran?
-
Nowhere in the Quran does it say that urine, stool, maniyy, madhiyy (seminal fluid), vomit, is impure. According to Hadith-rejectors will a person be sinful if he does not wash off these things from his body or clothes?
-
According to Hadith-rejectors, will a person be sinful for (God forbid) drinking these things which are not explicitly declared impure in the Quran, as this is the culture of many Westerners/non-Muslims?
-
According to the Quran, the meat of swine is forbidden, but nowhere in the Quran does it say that the perspiration or saliva of swine, or any other animal for that matter, is impure. If these things get onto the clothes or body of a Hadith-rejector, will he be sinful for not washing them off, or praying while traces of a pig's saliva or perspiration is on his body and/or clothes?
-
Nowhere in the Quran does it say that urine, dung, or seminal fluid of any animal is impure. Are these things halal for Hadith-rejectors, and will a Hadith rejector be sinful for touching, drinking, or not removing these traces from his body and clothes?
As Quran says "Laakum Deenukum Waliya Deen"
-
-
So for you it is not haram to do any of the things i asked in my five questions
I'm not saying haram, but it's not in the Quran it means it's not wajib to do it.
So you follow it or not, it's not important.As Quran says "Laakum Deenukum Waliya Deen"
Of course, it's mine deen, it's your deen.It's my tafseer and it's your tafseer.We're different ways of tafseer from the start.
-
Israfeel, I don't consider crcumcision an impure act comparable to the consumption of vile fluids. I said before that I'm indifferent to circumcision itself - if you feel that you will physically be more pure if you are circumcized, you are free to hold that view and I have no qualms with it, as stated before I feel it is "a very minor issue" that we must use our own intelligence to judge. What I'm arguing against is the notion that circumcision is mandatory.
The assumption point was in regards to my whole common sense rant at the end of the post, my apologies for wording and structuring my post as terribly as I did there.
Wasn't aware you were referring to sexual acts, my bad. Not really an area of expertise for me, though I know that the 3rd example you gave is supposed to have serious health risks, and that the 2nd example, interpretations vary between the different madhabs and stuff but generally it is looked down on somewhat due to also having some risks to health. Those two should really explain themselves, the "drinking sperm" example especially so I'd think. I'm not particularly sure what to say about "golden showers". I would assume it also has health risks but I'm not an expert I suppose, I couldn't say for sure. Regardless, considering how prevalent the theme of spiritual and physical purity is within the Quran, I don't see how such an act, which seems to be irrelevant to "sex" the act itself - would not be frowned upon. It sounds like such a minor act, again something one must use our own intelligence to judge.
-
Israfeel, I don't consider crcumcision an impure act comparable to the consumption of vile fluids. I said before that I'm indifferent to circumcision itself - if you feel that you will physically be more pure if you are circumcized, you are free to hold that view and I have no qualms with it, as stated before I feel it is "a very minor issue" that we must use our own intelligence to judge. What I'm arguing against is the notion that circumcision is mandatory.
The assumption point was in regards to my whole common sense rant at the end of the post, my apologies for wording and structuring my post as terribly as I did there.
Wasn't aware you were referring to sexual acts, my bad. Not really an area of expertise for me, though I know that the 3rd example you gave is supposed to have serious health risks, and that the 2nd example, interpretations vary between the different madhabs and stuff but generally it is looked down on somewhat due to also having some risks to health. Those two should really explain themselves, the "drinking sperm" example especially so I'd think. I'm not particularly sure what to say about "golden showers". I would assume it also has health risks but I'm not an expert I suppose, I couldn't say for sure. Regardless, considering how prevalent the theme of spiritual and physical purity is within the Quran, I don't see how such an act, which seems to be irrelevant to "sex" the act itself - would not be frowned upon. It sounds like such a minor act, again something one must use our own intelligence to judge.
Well when you argue against circumcision being mandatory simply because it is not mentioned in the Quran apart from general principles of being clean, then the same line of reasoning means you cannot declare things like golden showers, women swallowing sperm, people growing out their pubic and armpit hairs, intercourse through back passage, as being HARAM.
You can "frown" on all these things as much as you want. But from a purely Quranic point of view, all of these things are never censured.
The point I'm trying to make is that by only going by Quran you leave a lot of controversial issues open to interpretation and dispute. Even if you personally don't approve of these things, if a Quranist does them and even says there's no problem with it, you as a Quranist cannot argue with him.
Therefore I invite you to come back to the traditional Islam with Sunnah and Hadith. You say Quran is always encouraging intellect and rational thinking....well my rational thinking is always telling me Islam will be a mockery without Hadith.
-
Therefore I invite you to come back to the traditional Islam with Sunnah and Hadith. You say Quran is always encouraging intellect and rational thinking....well my rational thinking is always telling me Islam will be a mockery without Hadith.
Hadiths - stories told by Abu huraira and company are a mockery of Islam. What you are doing is inviting people to come back to believing in lies about prophets and God by Abu Huraira and his likes. sorry, but I decline your invitation.
What you have shown is your fallacies, making inaccurate statements whilst remaining silent when called out.
Again, if you wish to persist in your beliefs and views making untrue statements about God, that is your choice and to God you shall answer to. I suggest that you follow the Koran only asking God for guidance in seeking knowledge and understanding.
-
Israfeel.
I know the concept of Taqleed, however none of those scholars said to blindly follow them.
So you follow your own hawa to conclude which hadith to follow. So in actual fact you follow your own taqleed of the hadith. Hadith has been investigated in the past, yet you BLINDLY ALED (blindly follow, do your taqlid to the 6 hadith books). Where is your evidence that these books are authentic and infallible?
The hadiths you state do not claim circumcision is obligatory.So who are you fooling? They merely claim it in positive light. Furthermore there are hadiths which discuss men who lead prayer who are circumcised or uncircumcised, a circumcised is preferred. So really that is proof that it is not obligated. Moreover you mention the aqiqa of the baby. Nowhere have I read that hadith so if you can reference it that would be good. However I have read on the 7th day of the newborns Hassan and Hussain were circumcised.
Therefore based on hadith there is clear evidence that none of the sahaba nor the prophet claimed it as obligatory. Based on hadith it shows it is a commendable act and some people did it. Therefore to make a thing a Fard (an obligation) when it is not obligated is a sin, as Allah is the law maker not you, not hadith and not noone.
You seem to argue that hadith can only guide you into how to be clean you seem to totally dismiss Quran. You think God is incapable? how offensive.
Your logic is flawed let me show you some examples
Quote
- Going by this line of reasoning, removal of pubic hair, armpit hair, and trimming of fingernails and toenails when they become long or dirty are not mentioned in the Holy Quran either. Therefore, according to Hadith rejectors, will such people who do not remove pubic hair, armpit hair, nails, etc., be considered as sinful or not? Western and non-Muslim people do not remove pubic hair/armpit hair, do Hadith rejectors follow their culture also since it is not forbidden in Quran?
There is no wrong in culture so long as it does not contradict Quran. many western and non muslim people remove pubic hairs etc you can't speak for all people. Removing pubic hair, cutting nails etc is not sinful because Allah did not say it was. Unless you want to prove otherwise??? So don't make a claim unless you have proof.
- Nowhere in the Quran does it say that urine, stool, maniyy, madhiyy (seminal fluid), vomit, is impure. According to Hadith-rejectors will a person be sinful if he does not wash off these things from his body or clothes?
According to the Quran God tells us how to be pure during Salat, and God outlines the things which we need to purify i.e. having a bath, i.e. if you go to the toilet (urine/stool), sexual intercourse etc. So we do know based on the Quran that certain fluids need to be cleansed to be considered clean. Take for example 443.
- According to Hadith-rejectors, will a person be sinful for (God forbid) drinking these things which are not explicitly declared impure in the Quran, as this is the culture of many Westerners/non-Muslims?
Why would someone drink impurity? How explicit do you need something? Do you need Allah to tell you in the Quran that urine is impure you must not drink it? based on your logic God is incapable of explaining our deen, Auothobillah.
- According to the Quran, the meat of swine is forbidden, but nowhere in the Quran does it say that the perspiration or saliva of swine, or any other animal for that matter, is impure. If these things get onto the clothes or body of a Hadith-rejector, will he be sinful for not washing them off, or praying while traces of a pig's saliva or perspiration is on his body and/or clothes?
Use your brain. Firstly how often will someone be in contact with swine? And pray? Your cases are pathetic. What if someone didn't know they had traces of anything on them? are they constantly sinning? what if they were poor and they can only live in a swinehouse are they just impure?
- Nowhere in the Quran does it say that urine, dung, or seminal fluid of any animal is impure. Are these things halal for Hadith-rejectors, and will a Hadith rejector be sinful for touching, drinking, or not removing these traces from his body and clothes?
Read verses 56, 443 in ways we are told to be purified. And you will learn that urine, dung seminal fluid is not a characteristic a person enjoining a state of purification. If you can not understand that, I can?t help you. So do not pick and choose and claim what the Quran has and doesn't have if you have not read it.
You cannot halel and harem (make permissible and make unlawful) to your own whims and desires, do not misunderstand people based on your own ignorance, understanding and flawed logic. Try and think of the other person's perspective rather than "you vs them".
salam.
-
Israfeel.
I know the concept of Taqleed, however none of those scholars said to blindly follow them.
I agree. Which is why I don't blindly follow the scholars. I follow the Prophet (Sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) and his Hadith.
So you follow your own hawa to conclude which hadith to follow. So in actual fact you follow your own taqleed of the hadith. Hadith has been investigated in the past, yet you BLINDLY ALED (blindly follow, do your taqlid to the 6 hadith books). Where is your evidence that these books are authentic and infallible?
Good question. I don't blindly follow the books, I follow (Itteba) the Hadith which is proven to be authentically said by our Prophet Sallallaahu alayhi wasallam, based on its chain of narration.
By the way, in case you don't know, this is also how the Quran has been transmitted, through chains of narration. The Quran wasn't dropped from the sky or brought down on the wings of Angels from Heaven. It was revealed on the tongue of the Prophet peace be upon him and conveyed to us through his companions exactly the same like Hadith.
The hadiths you state do not claim circumcision is obligatory.So who are you fooling? They merely claim it in positive light. Furthermore there are hadiths which discuss men who lead prayer who are circumcised or uncircumcised, a circumcised is preferred. So really that is proof that it is not obligated. Moreover you mention the aqiqa of the baby. Nowhere have I read that hadith so if you can reference it that would be good. However I have read on the 7th day of the newborns Hassan and Hussain were circumcised.
The Hadith I quoted from Bukhari Sharif is very clear that circumcision is obligatory. It is one of the five characteristics of the Fitra, all five of them are considered obligatory.
Therefore based on hadith there is clear evidence that none of the sahaba nor the prophet claimed it as obligatory. Based on hadith it shows it is a commendable act and some people did it. Therefore to make a thing a Fard (an obligation) when it is not obligated is a sin, as Allah is the law maker not you, not hadith and not noone.
Wrong, it is obligatory as proven from the Hadith in Bukhari Sharif.
You seem to argue that hadith can only guide you into how to be clean you seem to totally dismiss Quran. You think God is incapable? how offensive.
Well if you dismiss Hadith then you have no cleanliness, because Quran doesnt mention directly about circumcision, what is impure, how to remove unclean hair, what animals are unclean, how to remove impurity from clothes, how to clean dishes licked by unclean animals or which contained alcohol or unclean meat, what kind of water is pure and how much amount of water you need to ensure its purity, etc.
None of this is in Quran, you have to get it from Hadith. So in other words if you reject Hadith you have no Islam left.