It is my honor to be here
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stop showing reverence for Muhammad and family
So it is those who believe in him (the Prophet), honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper. (Surah 7158 Bismillah included)
Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect. (Surah 3357 Bismillah included)
Holy Quran commands true believers to respect and honor the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam). Holy Quran also mentions that the hypocrites disrespect the Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wasallam.
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Peace,
I respect the prophet Muhammad and I obey him by following the Quran. Notice that he is no longer alive. It is hard to salute him or whatever you wanna do to greet him since he's gone to the next world. He does not hear you.
I am sure he is fine at God's side in the Higher Heaven (although it is a guess, the probability is high). He is in no need for us and we can greet him when we meet him in person, if he wants to see you of course.
The prophets are in my memory, but sorry I have to live my own life and obey God. He delivered the Quran and by obeying the Message he came with I honor him.
I am curious where you get the words of disrespecting Muhammad from? He was just an ordinary man like you and me who was chosen to carry out an honorable mission. He would think the same about it, I mean he would be modest and not wanting much light. He was big because God wanted it and helped him or he would have been dragging with the same human flaws. He put his trust in God alone and God rewarded him with Knowledge and Wisdom. Had it not been for God's assistance he would have failed, as you can find out by opening the Book.
God bless you
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Peace,
I respect the prophet Muhammad and I obey him by following the Quran. Notice that he is no longer alive. It is hard to salute him or whatever you wanna do to greet him since he's gone to the next world. He does not hear you.
So you can't pray for the dead who have passed away?
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Peace,
Yes. But what is the point in that regarding Muhammad? You knew he was a chosen one and need not worry he is risking Hell.
I think about my grandmother sometimes but see no reason to pray for her since I cannot change her fate as her test is over already. I can only wish she somehow made it to paradise anyhow, but my prayers will not help her.
Better pray for your living relatives and family and friends, and the impoverished neighbor.
You said praying for Muhammad? What do you wish him which he has not already?
You can wait until you die and thank him, but he will most certainly reply "Please do not thank me, thank the one who sent me. He is the praiseworthy".
God bless you
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Peace,
Yes. But what is the point in that regarding Muhammad? You knew he was a chosen one and need not worry he is risking Hell.
I think about my grandmother sometimes but see no reason to pray for her since I cannot change her fate as her test is over already. I can only wish she somehow made it to paradise anyhow, but my prayers will not help her.
Better pray for your living relatives and family and friends, and the impoverished neighbor.
You said praying for Muhammad? What do you wish him which he has not already?
You can wait until you die and thank him, but he will most certainly reply "Please do not thank me, thank the one who sent me. He is the praiseworthy".
God bless you
From your post we see that
a) Hadith rejectors do not pray for the dead, even their loved ones
b) Hadith rejectors should not pray at all, since everything is decided by fate. No point to pray ever for anythingHadith rejectors only pray for living people, but they don't pray for the dead. What kind of religion is this?
The Quran even mentions that the Believers pray for those who have passed away before them
And those who came after them say "Our Lord! Forgive us, and our brethren who came before us into the Faith, and leave not, in our hearts, rancour (or sense of injury) against those who have believed. Our Lord! Thou art indeed Full of Kindness, Most Merciful." (Surah 5911 Bismillah included)
Therefore praying for the dead is practice of Muslims who follow Sunnah. But Quran-only people do not pray for the dead, therefore so called Quran-only people are going against teachings of the Quran.
And yes the Prophet (peace be upon him) is guaranteed Heaven, but still we should pray for him even for the sake of praying, because prayer itself makes a person closer to Allah.
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Why do you need to greet Prophet Muhammad in your prayer in order to pray for all believers passed on?
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Why do you need to greet Prophet Muhammad in your prayer in order to pray for all believers passed on?
Because the Quran specifically commands us to sent salam on the Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam). It says 'Salimoo Tasleema' and this is for emphasis, meaning "Send lots and lots and lots of Salam to the Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wasallam" As you can see this is a Quranic commandment (which Hadith rejectors don't follow).
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Peace,
Now you are drawing preconceived conclusions. I said their fate is sealed because they are dead. I do not understand how you connect that to the act of praying.
Well, I think you use the situation to your benefit. I implore God about my grandmother, but I do not make it until an everyday habit.
Like I said, those who have not yet passed their trial are in the biggest need of your prayers.
No matter how much you pray for those who are dead you cannot affect their fate. They have their record until the Day of Judgement.
Prayers draw you closer to God, but not solely because you pray for others.
And the verse you talk about is a general statement, the whole community of those who believed, dead or alive.
I still see no reason why to focus your prayers on the dead instead of the living. Muhammad is dead, and has been like that for over 1400 years. Sure you can keep him in your memory and perhaps occasionally put a prayer for him. But not as an element of praise to God or any ordinary traditional way which I deem blasphemous. As a supplication it is fine.
God is to be primarily praised for the things Muhammad came with, not the prophet.
I am sorry if I was slightly off regarding the dead, shows I am not perfect. Yes, you are right that a supplication can be aimed at dead ancestors. Still it must be a formality since you can still not affect their fate as they have their record and there is no intercessor to this. Your prayer will not make God change His mind.
So, this post of yours shows that I can admit your correctness when I am wrong. It does not mean your ideas about why a prayer should go off are right though. As you see above, the prayers cannot affect a dead person, and that since that goes against other passages of the Quran.
Dead are dead, they are not here to listen to your commentary or pleas. And God will not change His mind about His judgement. You can likewise not curse a righteous person to Hell since God will not change His mind.
God bless you
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Your prayer will not make God change His mind.
Then what's the point of praying at all?
Even for living people?
It seems you have not grasped the basic concept of prayer and worship in Islam. You are following your own strange ideas and going against basic teachings of Quran which says to establish prayer, to make supplication to Allah for all your needs, to be totally reliant upon Him, and yes, to especially pray for those believers who have passed away.
Tell me, do you Quranists even have such thing as Funeral prayer? Oh right that's not even mentioned in Quran. So if a Quranist dies you just bury him, no funeral prayers at all.
There is a saying in my language
MARGAYA MARDOOD...NA FATIHAH NA DUROOD
This definitely applies to the Quranists.
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Peace,
Like I already stated, you are drawing preconceived conclusions. I have no clue why you claim that I exclude prayers.
Not especially, people who have passed away are beyond help since they have passed their trial already.
Focus on the now and pray that God will guide you and help you on your path.
God bless you
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Peace,
Like I already stated, you are drawing preconceived conclusions. I have no clue why you claim that I exclude prayers.
Not especially, people who have passed away are beyond help since they have passed their trial already.
Focus on the now and pray that God will guide you and help you on your path.
God bless you
You didn't answer my question.
Do you believe in offering funeral prayers before burying the dead?
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Did you know that "Isrfeel" means "the Burning One" and is actually conceived as having a huge HAIRY body that is covered with MOUTHS and TONGUES ?!
appears in cabbalistic lore as well as 19th-century Occultism. He was referenced in the title of Aleister Crowley's Liber Israfil, formerly Liber ANUBIS, a ritual which in its original form was written and utilized by members of the Golden Dawn. This is a ritual designed to invoke the Egyptian idol THOTH, the so-called deity of wisdom, writing, and magic who figures large in the Hermetica attributed to Hermes Trismegistus upon which modern practitioners of Alchemy and Ceremonial Magic draw.
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Peace hicham9,
Thank you for sharing that brother. I didn't know that. I just looked it up as well and yes it has links to the occult. Apparently, some say its an angel? But the name is not in the Quran. This reminds me of when people said the angels are female, but they are asked, were you there when they were created, do you know they are female? It's a bit like why give a name to something in the Quran that isn't actually their name in the Quran? I think I mentioned on here al-khidr but realised afterwards that that name isn't in the Quran either, I think the believer Moses meets is unnamed. I also think the interpretation of that story in which he apparently kills a child could have problems because Moses accidentally killed a man and his response was very different. Anyway thats off topic but it just reminded me.
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Peace.
Debate something like this in introduce yourself board is off-topic.
Did you know that "Isrfeel" means "the Burning One" and is actually conceived as having a huge HAIRY body that is covered with MOUTHS and TONGUES ?!
appears in cabbalistic lore as well as 19th-century Occultism. He was referenced in the title of Aleister Crowley's Liber Israfil, formerly Liber ANUBIS, a ritual which in its original form was written and utilized by members of the Golden Dawn. This is a ritual designed to invoke the Egyptian idol THOTH, the so-called deity of wisdom, writing, and magic who figures large in the Hermetica attributed to Hermes Trismegistus upon which modern practitioners of Alchemy and Ceremonial Magic draw.
Thank you bro, you're always bring some good points in many of your posts.
You are a good Arab friend indeed handshake -
Israfeel, do you think Muhammad really needs our prayers? Do you think the prophet who brought us the Quran really will gain anything from our prayers? Think logically. Prayer, as stated in the Qur'an, is for "remembrance of Allah." It is not a complicated thing. Prayer does not benefit the prophets, nor does it benefit the Almighty. It is for us. In this, it is actually good to be selfish, because prayer is for the self. Then you can extend your prayers to loved ones, to the deceased, to whomever you wish, but don't forget yourself - pray that Allah keeps us all on the Straight Path.
If praying for Muhammad gives you peace of mind, then by all means do so. But don't blame others if they don't feel the need, because you must remember that Muhammad is the least-needing of prayers.
If you want to separate us by calling us "Quranists" and "hadith-rejectors," you are already abandoning the basic Quranic principle of do you not divide yourselves. If we have some variation in belief, some diversity, why be so quick to divide? It will never yield successful outcomes.
Anyway, this sort of debate (debates are pretty useless anyway) can be had in another thread. I bid you peace and love.
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Also, as a side note, if you want to include Muhammad in your prayers, do not forget to include all prophets, or else you are putting preference to him and less to others. Allah says in the Qur'an,
And those who believe in Allah and His messengers and make no distinction between any of them (in belief), to them He will grant their rewards." (4152)
Even our shahadah has abandoned this verse. All prophets have taught one shahada "There is no God, but God." By adding "Muhammad is his messenger," this is placing him above others (because we are ignoring the others which is against Allah's teaching), we are actually disobeying Allah's command. Belief is about belief in the one God, of course we must believe in the messenger or else we won't believe in the message, but what is the message? It is the same message that has come before. Muhammad did not reveal a new religion, but rather, he reaffirmed the religion of Abraham.
I can talk much more about it, but it's no use. In the end, the key is to not divide amongst ourselves, to have peace with one another, and to, at the very least, tolerate one another, or else we all stray from the Straight Path.
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Peace ajiboghareeb21,
That's a really nice summary about reaffirming the religion of Abraham. In the Quran, our way is sometimes described as Millat Ibrahaim - creed or the religion of Abraham not Millat Muhammad, which is actually what the hadith based approach could be called.
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Peace Israfeel,
What is the intention with your funeral prayer?
I would mourn over the loss of someone near and hope this person will be fine. Mention him/her in a prayer should be in order.
Still I do not see where this is relevant. Are you just messing around?
God bless you
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Peace ajiboghareeb21,
That's a really nice summary about reaffirming the religion of Abraham. In the Quran, our way is sometimes described as Millat Ibrahaim - creed or the religion of Abraham not Millat Muhammad, which is actually what the hadith based approach could be called.
Very well-said. I just came to a small thought in my mind - people often think that those of us who think the ahadith are not part of our Islam seem to equate that with disbelief in the prophet's ways. Actually, I feel like I care more about the prophet than people who believe in hadith, because so far, every single instance of interaction I've had with hadith-followers, I have, always, found that they have not read all the ahadith that exist in the volumes and volumes of narrations which are considered authentic. One brother I spoke to who is a student at a madrassah near where I live said "Of course I haven't read all the hadiths! There are way too many!"
I wasn't sure whether to laugh or to cry... Amusing, and depressing.
And our own Qur'an states, "Do not uphold that of which you have no knowledge." I respect the prophet far too much to trust human writers with associating things with his tongue. I believe there are, and must be, many accurate ahadith, but those I have seen accurate are simply echoes of the Qur'an (nothing new, just redundant). But this hadith situation is far too imbalanced, now, and khutbahs ignore the Quran and talk about Muhammad leaning on a palm tree, and when he left, the palm tree started to cry. Forgive my language but how the hell is that supposed to help me live my life? How does that guide me? It is a mockery in my eyes, and it is, in fact, close enough to worshiping Muhammad.
Muhammad, as humble as he must have been, would probably be so upset by the propagation of ahadith and this emphasis muslims place on him. Now people cry and complain and whine when someone draws a picture of him. News flash - not everyone believes in him, nor Allah, and they have every right and freedom to do whatever they so please. Crying and complaining as a reaction by muslims upsets me far more than some silly cartoon. Some muslims somehow think our prayers are helping Muhammad, or that others' insults are hurting him. He's not alive, and of course he's not going to hell. He will be just fine without our prayers. It is us who are in need of prayers.
And to set the record straight and firm, there is an authentic hadith which states that Muhammad said that anyone who prays towards the Kaabah is a muslim, and no one can call them anything other than a muslim
"... in the Hadith the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) has addressed the Muslims as the followers of this direction (Ahle Qiblah), and has prohibited them to call anybody who faces this direction to pray, as a disbeliever."
I pray just like the majority of Sunnis pray. I think the way the majority prays is correct and I'm sure that the hadith do teach the proper way somewhere amongst the volumes. I don't think the origin of prayer is in the hadith books, and that's because Salat was taught to Ibrahim. Salat was well-established prior to Muhammad's birth, but aside from this, the point is that if you truly are a follower of hadith, you are not allowed to call those who pray towards the Kaaba as anything other than muslims, as much as you may want to. Again, according to ahadith.