What is God's role with Born Disabled?
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Salaam,
What I have noticed is while it is easy to say we should not discriminate for being disabled it is also the true fact that it is extremely difficult to bring this into practice.
My next question goes to Huruf and Zulf. If you have choice of getting married to one of 5 person. 4 of them are normal with looks, education, etc.. and 1 of them is Without a leg. Will you really marry a lady without leg? Forget getting married. will you even consider her potential to get married? (I guess most of the people will think about how we will have child, how it will effect our children lives etc..) Think about it a while and imagine yourself getting married to a severely disabled girl before typing to answer this please. Even if you will say yes, I will say you will remain one of those kind person in million and trust me there are much more disabled person in this world then people like you guys.
@Zulf, may be the way I said suffering is wrong, but my question is why they have to face different circumstances which seems to be logically much more difficult while living in the same world as others? Are those people really happy about how they are or have they compromised themselves as they have no other choice? If so, why are they forced to compromise?
My request again, please do not get offended with any of my lines, it is not intentional. Myself I am not disabled but recently I have come into contact with a person where I can see this closer. I used to think the same way you guys are explaining but have completely seen a different view since then..
Peace
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Salaam everyone.
I always had this question in my mind and have never been able to get any reasonable answer so far.
What is God's role with people who are born disabled? particularly those who are born severely disabled. If god is never unjust to his creations and he is the most merciful, why these people has to suffer for something they didn't have anything to do?
Any Logical input or Scripture understanding (any of God's scripture) would be great..
Peace
You as a person can go and break a child leg, God creats it and you break it - nothing stopping you - then someone askes what is Gods role in the breaking of the leg of the poor child. God has made many living things and they all work for their advantage in doing so they may be working against another living thing- so can we blame God allmighty for this???
come on rotfl sorry i just wanted to have a laugh, but i hope you understand what i meant.peace
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Love is blind. I know people who are married to defective people. So what? And what makes you think that "normal" people are not unhappy unadapted and nobody will listen to them because to people like you they have to be happy as if by law. lame people unhappy, normal people happy. In which world do you live? On the other hand, you do not seem to be readin what we write. For each person his or her trials. It is not a right to be happy it is a challenge. And the degree of the challenge will be matched by the degree of happinnes attained. But it is ridiculous to think that anybody at all without challenges "will be happy". So you are condemning all "defective" people to unhappinness? And condemning all normal people to happinnes without a right to fail and by unhappy. There are many ways in this world to unhappiness defectivness is just one. People commit suicide and they may be what you call happy.
You have come in contact with something that has shocked you, but calm down. The person who causes that shock is she as shocked as you are? My experience is the the people who suffer something do get the character to endure that something. Some more some less. As I say, suicide is something that is commited by all people, is not the privilege of lame people, so that shwos something, or not?
It is not abnormal people who are your trouble, it is you who are not able to cope with it, and I guess you are right, you are asking in this forum so that in this exchange you get help to cope with it.
I feel compassion for you, because I can see you are really suffering, but calm down, you will get used to it if you continue seeing that person. Also, take care of yourself. Getting sick because somebody is sick is of no use neither to the first sick nor to the second. I know of somebody who doing solidarity work got a deep depression. And that is a real illness, a terrible illness. Take care of yourself, I am serious. If you cannot put up with it, step aside, otherwise you will cause yourself to be sick. You will have to strengthen yourself and seek professional help so that if you are going to be around defective people, you do not get psychologically destroyed in the process. You really worry me. Please, do not get sucked in destructive feelings and thoughts. Seek help or step aside till when you are mature a formed person capable of handling that kind of thing.
I do not know how old are you. My guess is young and I guess also idealistic. That is very good, both things are good. But administer yourself, do not get broke at the beginning of the race.
I am worried about you and pray that you do not give in to destructive and so painful thoughts.
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This post may seem a bit disorganized, but hey... no problem.
What I have noticed is while it is easy to say we should not discriminate for being disabled it is also the true fact that it is extremely difficult to bring this into practice.
My next question goes to Huruf and Zulf. If you have choice of getting married to one of 5 person. 4 of them are normal with looks, education, etc.. and 1 of them is Without a leg. Will you really marry a lady without leg? Forget getting married. will you even consider her potential to get married? (I guess most of the people will think about how we will have child, how it will effect our children lives etc..) Think about it a while and imagine yourself getting married to a severely disabled girl before typing to answer this please. Even if you will say yes, I will say you will remain one of those kind person in million and trust me there are much more disabled person in this world then people like you guys.
I think we are dealing with two or three different topics at hand... i) discrimination from fellow human beings that opt to "select" other than the disabled person.... and ii) why in the first place disabled people are disabled and hence suffering, and iii) what suffering is and is not in the first place.
Regarding discrimination... we all do it all the time. You discriminate even between people who are not considered disabled. Discrimination/Selection/Choice happens all the time. If people are discriminated against (in terms of personal relationships) on the basis of physical disability, then people are also discriminated against on the basis of other qualifiers such as perceived beauty and attractiveness, education, skin color, ethnicity, religion, family background, language etc etc etc. So, it is not that physical disability is on one side and all others are on another side.
Regarding myself, what I would have done... I cannot possibly say... I haven't been in that exact seat... but I can tell you for sure that I need the person in my life to have a vibration that suits mine.... and vibration doesn't comes from limbs.
@Zulf, may be the way I said suffering is wrong, but my question is why they have to face different circumstances which seems to be logically much more difficult while living in the same world as others? Are those people really happy about how they are or have they compromised themselves as they have no other choice? If so, why are they forced to compromise?
Well, physical disaility is not at all the only potentially difficult situation that we may find ourselves in. Imagine the difficulties of having mental challenges, and I'm not talking about very low IQ or such things, but mental issues in "normal" people that may hamper us without it showing on the outside. Mental issues can really affect your level of happiness and thus be a source of suffereing. And bytheway... misery come from INSIDE, not outside. We react on the inside to the outside. That's why people can find the same situation totally different. Peace and agony depends on our inner world, no matter how hard this is to grasp in an otherwise extremely material and shallow oriented world. You can have "everything" and still be miserable. You can be one-legged, and find a wonderful spouse, and still be miserable. There is always something to be miserable about... and in the end it doesn't depend on all those soemthings.
There is a "secret" to life which is that our life appears just as good or bad as we react to it. This is true even though it may be very difficult to purify one's approach to life. Physical disability will never FORCE anyone to suffer. We suffer because the way we react mentally and emotionally to whatever situation we have at hand. Those who see themselves as victims and out of control in life, they are the one's who typically fall prey to depression etc. I know this is a very complex and vast subject area, and things are not black and white, but it is very important not to adopt the victim role regardless of one's situation. I'm myself going through a few different things that limit me in life alot, and that nobody would like to have themselves. My point is again, that there are so many difficult problems that people face... not just one or two, aand the problem is not the problem.... the problem is in our own mind. Most people won't agree to this though. They'd rather blame someone, or life, or God, and assume the victim role, and thereby locking themselves in misery.
My request again, please do not get offended with any of my lines, it is not intentional. Myself I am not disabled but recently I have come into contact with a person where I can see this closer. I used to think the same way you guys are explaining but have completely seen a different view since then..
Of course not, your questions are very valid and common. It's good to discuss these things. I also understand that you have seen some difficult situation very close, and that is of course not easy.
I also realize that my words may be interprited as harsh, shallow or void of understanding, but they are not intended like that.
I have learnt that we should not let our emotions decide what reality is. Our emotion will not determine the fact of reality, whether God exists or not, or whether life is unfair or not. Emotions rather have a tendency to cloud our minds. Just because we find ourself in difficult situations, and we feel depressed and emotional pain, this doesn't mean anything about Truth and Reality. We tend to jump to emotional conclusions, and that is a dead-end. I'm talking from my personal experience. Working on one's mind, emotions and outlook on life etc is not easy at all, and it can at times be very depressing.... but it doesn't make God or life unfair or in vain. It is in 100% of the cases our understanding and insight which is lacking.... not reality.
Peace!
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Salaam Huruf,
I would have liked to be involve in conversation with you to clear more of my doubts but I feel your replies are too harsh. For me and also your respond to Tigress. Honestly, you are asking me to stay away from these conditions not to get depressed but to read your replies are already depressing lol. brickwall Apologies but I am not that strong yet I guess. Respond with a little bit of politeness would have been cherry in the cake but now it seems to be Chilly on the cake.
Another thing I would like to make clear is, I am not trying to blame or question God by this post. I am a god fearing person and have come to this path after surviving through diverse religious background. I was just trying to get view of different peoples on this site who most of them I think have done a lot of research and posses far more knowledge than me. If bringing that topic has somehow make you feel offended, I am really sorry about it.
May God keep us in the right path always.
Peace
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Salam Zulf,
Thank you for your detailed reply. I think you have answered most of my concerns in a most convincing way then anybody has done so far. that is why people like you in this forum are so valuable for person like me who can come and lay down their doubts/ concerns. peace
If you do not know, I came from a Hindu background, later converted to Sunni Islam and now following Quranic teachings (without Hadith but with other scripture teachings). I am in learning phase and hopefully this site will lead me to the truth. pr
Peace
This post may seem a bit disorganized, but hey... no problem.
I think we are dealing with two or three different topics at hand... i) discrimination from fellow human beings that opt to "select" other than the disabled person.... and ii) why in the first place disabled people are disabled and hence suffering, and iii) what suffering is and is not in the first place.
Regarding discrimination... we all do it all the time. You discriminate even between people who are not considered disabled. Discrimination/Selection/Choice happens all the time. If people are discriminated against (in terms of personal relationships) on the basis of physical disability, then people are also discriminated against on the basis of other qualifiers such as perceived beauty and attractiveness, education, skin color, ethnicity, religion, family background, language etc etc etc. So, it is not that physical disability is on one side and all others are on another side.
Regarding myself, what I would have done... I cannot possibly say... I haven't been in that exact seat... but I can tell you for sure that I need the person in my life to have a vibration that suits mine.... and vibration doesn't comes from limbs.
Well, physical disaility is not at all the only potentially difficult situation that we may find ourselves in. Imagine the difficulties of having mental challenges, and I'm not talking about very low IQ or such things, but mental issues in "normal" people that may hamper us without it showing on the outside. Mental issues can really affect your level of happiness and thus be a source of suffereing. And bytheway... misery come from INSIDE, not outside. We react on the inside to the outside. That's why people can find the same situation totally different. Peace and agony depends on our inner world, no matter how hard this is to grasp in an otherwise extremely material and shallow oriented world. You can have "everything" and still be miserable. You can be one-legged, and find a wonderful spouse, and still be miserable. There is always something to be miserable about... and in the end it doesn't depend on all those soemthings.
There is a "secret" to life which is that our life appears just as good or bad as we react to it. This is true even though it may be very difficult to purify one's approach to life. Physical disability will never FORCE anyone to suffer. We suffer because the way we react mentally and emotionally to whatever situation we have at hand. Those who see themselves as victims and out of control in life, they are the one's who typically fall prey to depression etc. I know this is a very complex and vast subject area, and things are not black and white, but it is very important not to adopt the victim role regardless of one's situation. I'm myself going through a few different things that limit me in life alot, and that nobody would like to have themselves. My point is again, that there are so many difficult problems that people face... not just one or two, aand the problem is not the problem.... the problem is in our own mind. Most people won't agree to this though. They'd rather blame someone, or life, or God, and assume the victim role, and thereby locking themselves in misery.
Of course not, your questions are very valid and common. It's good to discuss these things. I also understand that you have seen some difficult situation very close, and that is of course not easy.
I also realize that my words may be interprited as harsh, shallow or void of understanding, but they are not intended like that.
I have learnt that we should not let our emotions decide what reality is. Our emotion will not determine the fact of reality, whether God exists or not, or whether life is unfair or not. Emotions rather have a tendency to cloud our minds. Just because we find ourself in difficult situations, and we feel depressed and emotional pain, this doesn't mean anything about Truth and Reality. We tend to jump to emotional conclusions, and that is a dead-end. I'm talking from my personal experience. Working on one's mind, emotions and outlook on life etc is not easy at all, and it can at times be very depressing.... but it doesn't make God or life unfair or in vain. It is in 100% of the cases our understanding and insight which is lacking.... not reality.
Peace! -
You as a person can go and break a child leg, God creats it and you break it - nothing stopping you - then someone askes what is Gods role in the breaking of the leg of the poor child. God has made many living things and they all work for their advantage in doing so they may be working against another living thing- so can we blame God allmighty for this???
come on rotfl sorry i just wanted to have a laugh, but i hope you understand what i meant.peace
LOL, I hope you are not a doctor or something!!
Peace
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I used to wonder about kids who are born with disability. I am not talking about just missing limbs but kids with chromosomal mutations like Turners syndrome or Down syndrome and many other conditions causing mental retardation and physical deformity or anomaly. And also diseases and suffering especially in children like cancer, childhood diabetes, and so many other conditions. Very much troubled that often lead me to question God.
When I look at a person who was born with disability, I think of what just a slight mutation in the chromosome does which has only lead me to conclude that we are not a result of some randomness of nature. That we were created by a higher being and the greatness of God.
Also, I see disabilities and disease as a test. It is a test of our character one of which is compassion. Well, this is just my own thoughts. I think that there is a reason for everything.
President kennedy had a sister with intellectual disability. And his sister Eunice Kennedy shriver believed in justice and championed the change in the attitude and treatment of people with disabilities. As a result of her efforts, in the United States there is much resources for the disabled. All public building has to have handicap access. My friend works for agency that cares of people with disabilities who cannot take care of themselves. Her job is to give them meds, take them shopping, taking them to special Olympics, and such.
As God makes it clear, this life is a test.
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Salaam Huruf,
I would have liked to be involve in conversation with you to clear more of my doubts but I feel your replies are too harsh. For me and also your respond to Tigress. Honestly, you are asking me to stay away from these conditions not to get depressed but to read your replies are already depressing lol. brickwall Apologies but I am not that strong yet I guess. Respond with a little bit of politeness would have been cherry in the cake but now it seems to be Chilly on the cake.
Another thing I would like to make clear is, I am not trying to blame or question God by this post. I am a god fearing person and have come to this path after surviving through diverse religious background. I was just trying to get view of different peoples on this site who most of them I think have done a lot of research and posses far more knowledge than me. If bringing that topic has somehow make you feel offended, I am really sorry about it.
May God keep us in the right path always.
Peace
No, I am not offended at all. I was trying to find out why you seem to suffer so much. I mean, it is enough that people suffer their ills and that they try to alleviate as much as they can of other prople's ills, but to feel the own ills and load upon oneself the ills of the others may be more than one can handle.
I regret you find harsh what I say, I guess it sounds so at the other end. I do not have any harsh feelings nor blame you or anything. Quite the opposite, I just felt about you the same you feel for those who are impaired, the inability to unload you of your anguish.
Salaam
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Another thing I would like to make clear is, I am not trying to blame or question God by this post.
It is by way of questioning that we learn.
Moses was shocked with somethings. I can't think of the verses to quote. Someone here can refer to the verses where a child was killed and Moses found that troubling. Muhammed also questioned God.
God tells us to contemplate, to think, to reflect.
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President kennedy had a sister with intellectual disability. And his sister Eunice Kennedy shriver believed in justice and championed the change in the attitude and treatment of people with disabilities. As a result of her efforts, in the United States there is much resources for the disabled. All public building has to have handicap access. My friend works for agency that cares of people with disabilities who cannot take care of themselves. Her job is to give them meds, take them shopping, taking them to special Olympics, and such.
Salam justamuslim,
Above example of Kennedy and her sister makes a lot of sense to answer my question of why god would do something like that. In fact he does it for the betterment of human race. hail
As God makes it clear, this life is a test.
Certainly it is. Thank you so much
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Quite the opposite, I just felt about you the same you feel for those who are impaired, the inability to unload you of your anguish.
Salaam
Salam Huruf,
Sorry But I didn't get what you meant by above line?
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Salam Huruf,
Sorry But I didn't get what you meant by above line?
Well, my impression is that you are suffering and are anguished by that unhappy fate of people with impairments and that that is the reason you are writing in this thread. And because of that I felt concerned about you, that is all, because I know of cases where people have suffered severe depression when dealing with disgraces for which they feel intensely and in front of which they feel powerless.
Salaam
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I think you should consider that the hereafter is by far more important than the worldly life. The hereafter is infinity, but the worldy life is nothing in comparison.
Also, I see disabilities and disease as a test. It is a test of our character one of which is compassion. Well, this is just my own thoughts. I think that there is a reason for everything.
As God makes it clear, this life is a test.
The clear points for this thread is both of this quotes.
There is no human in this world is perfect.ExampleRich family but broken home and poor family but happy family.
Human lives is like yin and yang concept.Whetever there is light, there also the dark existed.Whetever that humans have some superiority, the humans also have some weakness.
Superiority and weakness of humans is different each other, so that's why human was recomended to live together befriend each other, because they can cover their weakness each other.
Yeah the disability people is their takdir created by Allah and it's to testing their faith, they strong enough or rather that their iman was shaken because of it.
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Salam,
Seems like you have completely got me wrong. I did not start this post to confess my grief nor because I was suffering. I started this thread to clear my doubt in the issue by getting different views from different intelligent minds. I was just not able to understand why God will discriminate this way while we believe him to be just. I can see that changing after getting some wonderful responses from you and other members. My intention was to understand what can be the purpose behind it. Sorry if my english was too bad to understand the concise meaning lol.
Thank you for your concern though. handshake
Well, my impression is that you are suffering and are anguished by that unhappy fate of people with impairments and that that is the reason you are writing in this thread. And because of that I felt concerned about you, that is all, because I know of cases where people have suffered severe depression when dealing with disgraces for which they feel intensely and in front of which they feel powerless.
Salaam
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Salam Earthdom,
Agree with your points. Thank you for your responses.
I also like to add that I really like your signature line. wow
Peace
The clear points for this thread is both of this quotes.
There is no human in this world is perfect.ExampleRich family but broken home and poor family but happy family.
Human lives is like yin and yang concept.Whetever there is light, there also the dark existed.Whetever that humans have some superiority, the humans also have some weakness.
Superiority and weakness of humans is different each other, so that's why human was recomended to live together befriend each other, because they can cover their weakness each other.
Yeah the disability people is their takdir created by Allah and it's to testing their faith, they strong enough or rather that their iman was shaken because of it.
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We are strong believers that the expecting mother and child would be safe only in the Safety hands of doctors and equally strong rejecters of belief in the Only Creator, who Perfects us, who Fashions us, who Nourishes us, who Protects us, who Guides us, Allah. Your disabled offsprings, the humanoids are not what Allah created; they are all mutated and disabled by the handiwork of the specialist shaitaans, the agents of allopathy with their drugs. Allah harms none; but you harm yourselves and your progeny. Despite this, if we keep on discussing this subject, blaming Allah then remember this ayat
- But if any one earns a fault or a sin and throws it on to the One, Allah who is innocent, He carries on himself both a falsehood and a flagrant sin.
If you are believers in this ayat, then seek forgiveness for having started this thread and having involved in it. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Guiding.
fazl
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Your disabled offsprings, the humanoids are not what Allah created; they are all mutated and disabled by the handiwork of the specialist shaitaans, the agents of allopathy with their drugs. Allah harms none; but you harm yourselves and your progeny. Despite this, if we keep on discussing this subject, blaming Allah then remember this ayat
fazl
Can you explain how as an example Down syndrome is the handiwork of specialist shaitaans/agents of allopathy?
By the way who are these specialist shaitaans?
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Can you explain how as an example Down syndrome is the handiwork of specialist shaitaans/agents of allopathy?
By the way who are these specialist shaitaans?
Every allopathic drug prescribed and administered to patients by the medical agents for every simple disease to doctor worked, drug induced complicated diseases has teratogenic effect causing systemic affection and genetic mutation. The self styled allopathic physician specialists have coined innumerable fancy names for just one wholesome genetic disorder. And for not any one disease they have the remotest relief leave alone cure.