What is God's role with Born Disabled?
-
Salaam Fazl,
I assume you haven't gone through the whole thread else you wouldn't have said it this way. There are 3 things I have noted from your response.
First of all, I do believe Quran to be the Scripture of God and believe in each and every aayat of it.
2nd, I still do not see any reason for me to ask for forgiveness for starting this thread (although I do believe that there is nothing wrong in asking forgiveness from God). If you read my responses above you can clearly see what my intention were. I wanted to seek knowledge for the purpose behind it and not to blame god.
3rd, I can see the contradiction in your own paragraph for the same issue. Please see below in red and highlighted.
We are strong believers that the expecting mother and child would be safe only in the Safety hands of doctors and equally strong rejecters of belief in the Only Creator, who Perfects us, who Fashions us, who Nourishes us, who Protects us, who Guides us, Allah. Your disabled offsprings, the humanoids are not what Allah created; they are all mutated and disabled by the handiwork of the specialist shaitaans, the agents of allopathy with their drugs. Allah harms none; but you harm yourselves and your progeny. Despite this, if we keep on discussing this subject, blaming Allah then remember this ayat
You yourself saying God to be the only creator so how does Shaytaan play a role in our creation? You also noted that God protects us, so why will he let Shaitaan mutate his own perfectly fashioned creation? What I understand is Shaitaan only comes into play after the free will of a person, if the person chooses to accept the wrong path. It does not make sense to say that a born disabled person was mutated by Shaitaan because he chose to follow his path.
- But if any one earns a fault or a sin and throws it on to the One, Allah who is innocent, He carries on himself both a falsehood and a flagrant sin.
If you are believers in this ayat, then seek forgiveness for having started this thread and having involved in it. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Guiding.
fazl
-
Salaam everyone.
I always had this question in my mind and have never been able to get any reasonable answer so far.
What is God's role with people who are born disabled? particularly those who are born severely disabled. If god is never unjust to his creations and he is the most merciful, why these people has to suffer for something they didn't have anything to do?
Any Logical input or Scripture understanding (any of God's scripture) would be great..
Peace
Salaam
this question is one the most complex questions and is linked to the more complex question of why we are we here.
the question can be extented to poor/rich, worker/inheritor, ugly/beautiful and so on.the appearent injustice is mainly for biological entities. Spirits are equals.
the appearent injustice concerns only a small part of the life of the spirit.
biological life is only appearance.you can be a rich and beautiful inheritor but feel sad and suicide yourself
you can be disabled, poor and ugly and feel happy.We quite all will be disabled in the end of our life. We will loose beauty, physical power, and will not be able to use as we want money we accumulated in our life.
as mo'omin, you have to accept what was given to you, not be jealous of what others was given in this very short biological life.
life is a test. Life is a teaching from our rabb. Actual earth was given to humans who have to rule it (khalifa). Paradise will be ruled by God.
your body is simply a random biological box for your spirit who have to decide who to follow the unique Rabb or the chaytan mixture based on human sayings.
that was my opinion.
more details in quran.Peace
-
Peace oneandonly,
I think you should not take drfazl's words too literally. He means that our reliance upon health care causes defects in us and thus creating these mutations in our offspring. He has also told that our diseases and other illnesses are due to trusting workers of evil, ie doctors and those who work on the human body instead of putting all our trust in God to cure us.
I intended to be neutral in my clarification and it was simply my understanding of Mr Rahman's ideas based on his thread dedicated to this topic.
I do not have this orthodox interpretation that Mr Rahman has, but I like some of his ideas.
God bless you
-
Salaam Fazl,
I assume you haven't gone through the whole thread else you wouldn't have said it this way. There are 3 things I have noted from your response. I still do not see any reason for me to ask for forgiveness for starting this thread (although I do believe that there is nothing wrong in asking forgiveness from God). If you read my responses above you can clearly see what my intention were. I wanted to seek knowledge for the purpose behind it and not to blame god.
Salam
oneandonly,Sorry, is my first response to your post though my post is only a general response to the topic and not connected with the line of discussion going on. This is why I did not address this post to you or to anybody. You are right you do not have to seek forgiveness given your intention.
Shaitaans are the ones who would deviate humans from their God's straight path to heavenly life and lead them towards the life of eternal destruction, disability, distress, disgrace, disorientation, and affliction with diseases and poverty in this world. They give false promises with intention to deceive them in the end. The subject of modern medicine is exactly the same; and its practitioners knowingly have adopted or passively have become victim to this satanic path.
Coming to God's role with born disabled
True to his challenge, we have been deviated by shaitaan from Allah, to become strong believers in modern medicine that every expecting mother and child would be safe only in the safety hands of the doctors and not with God alone; and we too have become strong rejecters of belief in the Only Creator, who Perfects us, who Fashions us, who Nourishes us, who Protects us, who Guides us, Allah. Now all medicines are injected as vaccines and drugs by the shaitaans, the doctors and the specialists which caused mutation of genes in the developing embryo. Thus God has no role with born disabled.- But if any one earns a fault or a sin and throws it on to the One, Allah who is innocent, He carries on himself both a falsehood and a flagrant sin.
Peace
-
Peace drfazl,
Sorry for replying in your place. I did not want your words to go misunderstood.
God bless you
-
Man of Faith
SalamI am sorry I should have acknowledged and welcomed your post immediately, but I was doing some corrections to my post that caused the delay. Do you have even remote idea that I have orthodox view? I am always independent as you are. You are always welcome.
God Bless You
fazlur rahman -
Peace drfazl,
I maybe should have used a better word than orthodox. I meant that I do not follow this way as strictly as you, although I have understood the badness of relying on health care. But your comments in your thread have been valuable and added some thoughts to my mind. I sincerely apologize for offending you even if unintentionally.
I have also understood that when you feel emotionally affected too much, then you drive forth the illnesses. If you meditate a little and pray for guidance then this is confirmed by God and He enlightens you.
God bless you
-
You have not answered my question. Can you explain how Down syndrome is the handiwork of doctors?
FYI Down syndrome is the most common chromosomal abnormality. It is a genetic disorder caused by presence of part or all of third copy of trisomy 21. It is named after British physician who described the syndrome in 1866. And it was described earlier by Jean Etienne Dominique Esquirol in 1838.
-
Peace drfazl,
I maybe should have used a better word than orthodox. I meant that I do not follow this way as strictly as you, although I have understood the badness of relying on health care. But your comments in your thread have been valuable and added some thoughts to my mind. I sincerely apologize for offending you even if unintentionally.
I have also understood that when you feel emotionally affected too much, then you drive forth the illnesses. If you meditate a little and pray for guidance then this is confirmed by God and He enlightens you.
God bless you
If you were to fall and break a leg, are you going to meditate and pray for guidance to be enlightened and have God fix your broken bone?
How about if your child gets whooping cough? Or gets pneumonia? Or bacterial meningitis?
And if your wife gets pregnant and develops severe hypertension or if the placenta separates, you mean to tell me that you are just going to meditate and pray?
This is scary.
-
Salaam Man of Faith. (After long time ))
While I agree with Mr. Fazl that some of the medication and healthcare are the reason behind to cause defects, I do not think we can apply this to the question of the thread. For example, If parents were responsible for trusting the medication why would their offspring need to face the defectiveness. you know what I mean? I would like to see your view on this..
Another question that comes in mind is that if we are not supposed to discriminate the disables then why will we call defective people a devil's mutation in creation? why cannot we call it a perfect creation of god?
God Bless us
Peace oneandonly,
I think you should not take drfazl's words too literally. He means that our reliance upon health care causes defects in us and thus creating these mutations in our offspring. He has also told that our diseases and other illnesses are due to trusting workers of evil, ie doctors and those who work on the human body instead of putting all our trust in God to cure us.
I intended to be neutral in my clarification and it was simply my understanding of Mr Rahman's ideas based on his thread dedicated to this topic.
I do not have this orthodox interpretation that Mr Rahman has, but I like some of his ideas.
God bless you
-
Salam Fazl,
I would like to get your views on below comments on red please.
God bless us.
Salam
oneandonly,Shaitaans are the ones who would deviate humans from their God's straight path to heavenly life and lead them towards the life of eternal destruction, disability, distress, disgrace, disorientation, and affliction with diseases and poverty in this world. They give false promises with intention to deceive them in the end. The subject of modern medicine is exactly the same; and its practitioners knowingly have adopted or passively have become victim to this satanic path.
Do you mean to say that all modern medical practices are of Satanic Path and should be avoided? Will it even be possible to survive without these in current world?
Coming to God's role with born disabled
True to his challenge, we have been deviated by shaitaan from Allah, to become strong believers in modern medicine that every expecting mother and child would be safe only in the safety hands of the doctors and not with God alone; and we too have become strong rejecters of belief in the Only Creator, who Perfects us, who Fashions us, who Nourishes us, who Protects us, who Guides us, Allah. Now all medicines are injected as vaccines and drugs by the shaitaans, the doctors and the specialists which caused mutation of genes in the developing embryo. Thus God has no role with born disabled.ok, I am having difficulty to understand this. Do you mean to say that Shaitaan causes the mutation in genes so that the person born later can have defects? Does that mean Shaitaan has the ability to go to the level and can cause harm even before the person is born and granted free will? If he do not have the right to go against free will then how is he able to defect the person for his parent's responsibility of trusting the medication? .
Please do not take it personally. I am just trying to understand your view. -)
- But if any one earns a fault or a sin and throws it on to the One, Allah who is innocent, He carries on himself both a falsehood and a flagrant sin.
Peace
-
Salaam justamuslim,
I am going to sue you because you stole my words.. LOL police
If you were to fall and break a leg, are you going to meditate and pray for guidance to be enlightened and have God fix your broken bone?
How about if your child gets whooping cough? Or gets pneumonia? Or bacterial meningitis?
And if your wife gets pregnant and develops severe hypertension or if the placenta separates, you mean to tell me that you are just going to meditate and pray?
This is scary.
-
Peace justamuslim,
Ask drfazl about that, I am moderate regarding his ideas. I would seek help for a broken leg or if it was any other emergent situation. But I would not seek care for "lesser" ailments. I think you should avoid messing with the body too much, however in some cases you simply need to seek help to relieve the pain.
I am impressed by drfazl's ability to do without any kind of visit to some doctor and never any medicine. His Faith in God must have made him relatively safe from those problems.
In recent years I have begun to do much like Mr Fazl, but God has not spared me from becoming so ill that I had to see the doctor. At least God may have started to spare me from more illnesses than in the past. But I would not hesitate to go to the doctor if my life was at stake for some reason.
And you should pray for your problems such as illnesses and the likes. Why should you not?
Faith in God could move a mountain.
God bless you
-
You have not answered my question. Can you explain how Down syndrome is the handiwork of doctors?
FYI Down syndrome is the most common chromosomal abnormality. It is a genetic disorder caused by presence of part or all of third copy of trisomy 21. It is named after British physician who described the syndrome in 1866. And it was described earlier by Jean Etienne Dominique Esquirol in 1838.
In your disinformation and misinformation to me you are saying the history of the genetic abnormality of a particular disease from 1838. What is the reason for the presence of third copy of trisomy 21? Why did the mutation develop in them? How to cure them? Or how to prevent them? Have the modern medicine succeeded in curing or preventing them to prove their hypotheses or their loose talks on disease and cure? Please provide such informations with valid proof. And have first hand information as an answer to these questions and come back to me so that you can have free-mind to understand as a believer when I clarify from Quran.
Peace.
-
Salam,
Seems like you have completely got me wrong. I did not start this post to confess my grief nor because I was suffering. I started this thread to clear my doubt in the issue by getting different views from different intelligent minds. I was just not able to understand why God will discriminate this way while we believe him to be just. I can see that changing after getting some wonderful responses from you and other members. My intention was to understand what can be the purpose behind it. Sorry if my english was too bad to understand the concise meaning lol.
Thank you for your concern though. handshake
Well I am glad you are totally in shape notwithstanding your queeries about impairments. You are welcome and I don't think anything is wrong with your English, not more wrong than with mine, at any rate. But sometimes, just the written word may mislead about the attitude of the writer. It is not as if you saw the face and expression.
I am glad that the posters have been able to bring some peace of mind on this subject.
Salaam
-
If you were to fall and break a leg, are you going to meditate and pray for guidance to be enlightened and have God fix your broken bone?
How about if your child gets whooping cough? Or gets pneumonia? Or bacterial meningitis?
And if your wife gets pregnant and develops severe hypertension or if the placenta separates, you mean to tell me that you are just going to meditate and pray?
This is scary.
I do not know if you are a believer at all in God's Power and Wisdom?
753, 4
Does justamuslim think that We will not assemble his bones? Yes. We are Able even to proportion his fingertips.2259 And look at your donkey; and We will make you a sign for the people. And look at the bones of this donkey - how We assemble them and then We cover them with flesh.. .
If you are a believer then you shall believe that Allah answers the call of the caller if he calls on Him. I am verifying day in and day out in my practise of 15 years prayer healing ever since I ditched allopathic practise and after freeing myself of shirk.
And regarding the allopathic orthopaedic fixing and manipulation, most bone fractures do not approximate or grow properly but with deformity and their strength grow weaker with nagging pain. Fixtures with plates and nails and bolts the bone is further damaged by such manipulations. Verify this truth also and come back to me and answer my further questions until you get tired of wretched allopathic medicine.
Regarding whooping cough and pneumonia, and meningitis are mostly medicine induced. It will be clarified in my thread, "Peace and Emotions and Disease and Cure."
God Bless You, if He Will.
-
Salam oneandonly & justamuslim
Kindly ponder 43 36,37
before going through DrFazl's Threads "Peace Vs Emotions ; Health Vs Disease "
&
"If Only Allah , then Allah is our watchword"which could be an inner eye opener to understand that MAJORITY people are astray and so
are their WAYS and MEANS 6116
Hope " ONEANDONLY " will show you the straight path to be "JUSTAMUSLIM"
R.BALACHANDRAN
-
Peace drfazl,
I am curious about how your life has been like over the past 15 years. I also wish to stop using healthcare completely, but once I got so ill they had to inject antibiotics in my body. However, it is my only real visit to the doctor in many years.
At least I am, like I said in my previous post, at least moderate about the style of prayer healing you practice. I always implore God when I fall ill and I try to endure until God heals me.
Well, in fact my wife has me go to the doctor and I do not know if she helped me commit a sin. I should perhaps repent for my shortcoming. I think I would have survived without that injection. But I guess I looked really bad to her with high fiever and I was too weak to decide myself.
When it comes to mental illnesses I have entirely your opinion, then you should go to treatment without drugs and pray as much as you can. However, I think some serious conditions must be helped somehow.
This whole society (whole planet) is built around the wrong system. We should minimize drug usage and doctor's intervention and rather put our trust in God and we will be less ill. You definitely have a point in your preaching about this matter. Shame your ideas go unheard sometimes.
We need to trust the Lord more than we do, some of us are good examples, but we can always get better. Even the most pious.
God bless you
-
Salam newmoon,
I guess those verses applies to the traditional religious scholars, no?
I do hope to be guided in the right path and that is why I am in this forum to seek knowledge. pr
I was pretty confident that it may not be possible to live without medication but now the confirmed example of Man of Faith and Drfazl has intrigue me to look at it with deeper perspective.
I will certainly go through Drfazal's threads.
Peace