The 'Ant' in 27:18
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Peace,
I am posting this e-mail that was sent to me...through I disagreed with the conclusion, I nevertheless think it should be reviewed.
Layth
Amer G (e-mail [email protected])
Subject a fault in the translation?Bismillah
AsalamualaikumI must say, an amazing site, and an abundance of articles, such a source of knowledge is great to have.
It's good to see brothers and sisters like you doing this stuff.
But can you help me with something?Reading your translation, I came across this
- And Solomon inherited from David, and he said ?O people, we have been taught how to understand the speech of birds, and we have been given from everything. This is indeed an evident grace.?
And then just a bit further, another two verses came, which caused the problem
- Until they came to a valley of ants, an ant said ?O ants, enter your homes else you will be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they do not notice.?
- He then smiled, amused by what she said. And he said ?My Lord, help me to be thankful for the blessings You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents, and that I may do good work that pleases You, and admit me by Your Mercy with Your righteous servants.?
I'm sure this problem has been brought up before. If it hasn't, then let me explain
The word used for 'el tayr' is "birds", so when the "speech of el tayr" is translated, we get "speech of birds".
I think this is wrong and the translation for 'el tayr' shouldn't be 'birds'. Why? Here's my argument- I'm not a big fan of Arabic grammar or conjugation but, can't the root word of 'el Tayr' be traced back through either "ta'er" or 'yateer'?
- The word isn't limited to mean 'birds', in general it means 'those that fly' (this may be pretty off but it's an educated guess).
- From the verses 18 and 19, we can easily conclude that the ant is in fact female ("amused by what she said."). Especially in Arabic.
- And this ant is giving a command.
- The only female ant in an ant colony is actually the queen. (which would explain why she's giving a command?)
- The queen ant has wings, and can fly.
- Solomon, who learned the speech of the birds, understands her.
- The queen ant is not a bird.
Conclusion The translation of 'el Tayr' into 'birds' is wrong, and would be better as a general definition that included all things that fly, ex. those that fly.
I thank you dearly for your time and effort Brothers and Sisters, and if I'm wrong PLEASE inform me, and show me my faults.
JAZAKUM ALLAH KHAIR
SALAMUALAIKUM -
Peace be upon you Layth,
WOW! I never noticed that. He does have a very valid point.
My understanding has been that the examples of ANIMALS are explaining the ANI-MATING factors in humans. It is the ANIMAL part of the human where the EMOTIONS are contained.
Let be back track a little, the Earth represents MAN, and the skies represent the MIND. Our journey is within, towards the MIND(skies), which is why it is referred to as Climbing a mountain (into the skies). Look at how easy it is for ONE THAT FLIES! D
Think of the example of Abraham asking the god how he gives life to the dead. The example incorporates TRAINING "FLYING ANIMALS" to respond to the CALL.
Solomon was taught the SPEECH of the MIND, or the SPEECH of SYMBOLISM, which is how these HIGHER UNDERSTANDINGS are given to us so we can understand them.
I think he was right on point with that observation.
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Peace all,
- And Solomon inherited from David, and he said ?O people, we have been taught how to understand the speech of birds, and we have been given from everything. This is indeed an evident grace.?
Wawaritha sulaymanu dawoodawaqala ya ayyuha alnnasuAAullimna mantiqa alttayri waooteenamin kulli shay-in inna hatha lahuwa alfadlualmubeenu
- And he inspected the birds, then said ?Why do I not see the hoopoe, or is he among those absent??
Watafaqqada alttayra faqalama liya la ara alhudhuda am kana minaalgha-ibeena
3410 And We granted David blessings from Us ?O mountains, glorify with him, as well as the birds.? And We softened the iron for him.
Walaqad atayna dawoodaminna fadlan ya jibalu awwibeemaAAahu wa alttayra waalanna lahu alhadeedaSee also 2179
I think alttayra doesn't mean systematically a bird and could be flying creatures.
But "alhudhuda" in 2720 is a bird and "the speech of birds" in 2716 could be correctAllah knows best
Peace
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Peace be upon you,
Yes alhudhuda is a bird (assuming it is Hoopee), and it was part of the flying creatures. So while "speech of birds" COULD be correct, I think that Solomon being able to understand a FLYING ant gives the final clarification we need, because it is NOT a bird, but it can fly (or have I asssumed too far?) So it concludes that Solomon was taught he speecj of the flying creatures.
Malaika (poitive motivating forces including thoughts) are described as having WINGS. wink
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Salaam all,
From qd
Namalatun-(generic) A person of the tribe of al-namal,a namlite.People of the valley of Namal.
Name of a valley situated between jibrin and Asqalan a town on the sea coast 12 miles to the north of Gaza,in Sinai and Namlah is the name of the tribe living there.
Namal means a clever man.The name is also given to a child in whose hands an ant is placed at his birth,because it was considered such a child would be wise and intelligent.So the word Al-Naml does not mean valley full of ants,as is sometimes misunderstood,but the valley where the tribe named namal lived.
God Bless.
Salaams.
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Salaam kyle,
I think that Solomon being able to understand a FLYING ant gives the final clarification we need, because it is NOT a bird, but it can fly (or have I asssumed too far?)
If those (particular) ants could fly, why would the warner ant tell them to get inside their homes? Why wouldn't it tell them to fly away?
Taj
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Peace be upon you Taj,
If those (particular) ants could fly, why would the warner ant tell them to get inside their homes? Why wouldn't it tell them to fly away?
I think that only the Queen ant will have wings at that time while the workers do not have wings at that time. Here is what the initial post stated;
- The only female ant in an ant colony is actually the queen. (which would explain why she's giving a command?)
- The queen ant has wings, and can fly.
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Peace,
- The only female ant in an ant colony is actually the queen. (which would explain why she's giving a command?)
The queen is not the only female in an ant colony because of the workers, The wet nurses, the janitors (female).
Some queens have any sex and they give birth for other queen by an asexual reproduction.Hope that hepls
Peace
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Peace be upon you Marie,
Thanks for the clarification, yes, the Queen is not the only female ant.
In regards to this topic, do we all agree that if she is giving orders she is the Queen? If so, then we can agree that she has wings.
Anyone disagree with that?
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Peace Kyle,
Peace be upon you Marie,
Thanks for the clarification, yes, the Queen is not the only female ant.
In regards to this topic, do we all agree that if she is giving orders she is the Queen? If so, then we can agree that she has wings.
Anyone disagree with that?
The mission of the queen is to renew the colony, lay eggs and each member of the colony know his role inside or outside the swarm.
The queen, her place is inside the swarm, how can she see Solomon and his soldiers ?
This is the mission of the the janitors, those who guard the swarm and the queen.Peace
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Peace be upon you Marie,
Thank you for clarifying that further.
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Peace,
Thanks sister
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Salaams,Ants speak?
Ant Talk
C. Claireborne Ray; New York Times; Nov. 21 2000
Q. Watching ants traveling in a line, I noticed they meet head-on for a moment, then continue on their way. Is this some type of communication?
A. If there was any foreleg contact or waving about of antennas by the ants, some communication may have been involved. But the wide range of communication methods among ants is weighted heavily toward chemical signals, and visual signals have not been solidly documented, according to "The Ants," the classic study by Bert H?lldobler and Dr. Edward O. Wilson (Harvard, 1990).
Ant communication, which has been extensively but not exhaustively studied, includes tappings, chirplike grating noises, "strokings, graspings, nudgings, antennations, tastings, and puffings and streakings of chemicals," the book says, as well as bizarre activities like the exchange of special eggs and anal secretions.
In a typical worker ant, more than 10 organs have been implicated in producing just one class of chemical signal. However, a typical ant colony operates with only about 10 to 20 signals, most of them chemical.
If a fire ant is laying a food trail using such signals and meets another worker, the homeward- bound worker may turn to face her, rushing into her before continuing on, or even pausing briefly to shake her, but researchers think this behavior may only serve to enhance the effects of the chemical being used.
Salaams to .
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Peace all,
The word 'tair' is one of the multiple meaning words of the Koran according to Prof. Ahmed Ali (a translator whose work I admire) - and he translates it as "nation" - this is in relation to Jesus blowing life into a "tair" - so Jesus revived the nation of his people from mire.
Now I think in these verses "tair" again means nation and Solomon knowing the speech of tair - is telling us that Solomon was well versed in diplomacy and thus had knowledge of the speech of nations. This is vindicated by the subsequent subject matter of the surah - ie. the interaction between nations or peoples.
The naml - again are not literal ants - I believe that they are a people or tribe with this name and not the tiny animals we know.
The 'hudhud' (hoopoe) is a little problematic - but is obviously an entity amongst the nations and I believe may be an envoy or spy of a friendly nation - likely a diplomat who gives him news of a neighbouring foreign nation.
Regards.
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Peace be upon you,
It is all symbolism, things that fly represent BALANCE of heaven and earth. We are a BALANCED COMMUNITY. IN the world but not of the world.
Our journey is described as climbing a mountain, how easy is that for a flying creature?
The God is not talking about any tribe. The God is not talking about HISTORY, he is talking about RIGHT NOW, the ETERNAL PRESENT.
