To Those Who Prohibit Reciting Prophet's Name For Shahadat and Duroot.
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Peace Zulf,
Nice questions, something to ponder. I made a whole thread about that 631 verse after I got into a discussion with an atheist about it. That thread didn't go too well on the whole from what I remember in terms of the continual back and forth on some points that were just straightforward enough (it felt like bickering to be honest) with other members - then again, this forum has a lot of threads similar to that. I guess its just the way.
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Peace Earthdom,
If you really can't read the word Rabbi there - there is not much more I can do. Me telling you will not make it magically connect in your brain. Have a great day.
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If you really can't read the word Rabbi there - there is not much more I can do. Me telling you will not make it magically connect in your brain. Have a great day.
Don't be mad to me sis, because I often became the target of mockery and madness in my bad past, please create a friendly atmosphere with me, because you didn't really know who really I am.
Rabbi can be translate as "teacher" or "guru" in asian hermisphere, so ulema and pastor can also labeled as "rabbi'.
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Peace,
The prophet Muhammad was also tested during his life. He could have failed and was not destined for Heaven until he died. Prophets are ordinary human beings with a special religious duty on their shoulders. And that was why his community was told to pray for him.
Also you cannot contact him now when he is dead if that is what you are pointing at.
Your proof is the context plus the rules on how it works when people die. The Quran reveals quite clearly they are gone cannot be contacted and are completely unaware of what is happening here.
God bless you
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Don't be mad to me sis, because I often became the target of mockery and madness in my bad past, please create a friendly atmosphere with me, because you didn't really know who really I am.
Rabbi can be translate as "teacher" or "guru" in asian hermisphere, so ulema and pastor can also labeled as "rabbi'.
Peace Earthdom,
I'm not really mad at you, although I am very cautious in terms of how much I discuss with you after that encounter we had where I tried to be very very patient with you and explain everything many times and I felt the way I was treated was not right really. So, as you can understand, it will create caution and coolness between us, but that's ok, we don't need to discuss with each other.
By your own explanation, that can include the Rabbis as well as anyone else as a religious authority. I think that is the whole lesson in that verse.
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Peace Zulf.Can you make a conclusion of your post? Because my english is poor .
Well Sir, the gist of my post was that we should dig out the REAL reasons for the things we uphold. We need to be BRUTALLY honest with ourselves, and find the reasons behind the reasons. Just that.... being truthful at the greatest possible extent.
Actually, it's a matter of connecting to God as opposed to our own false images of a god. God guides. If we find ourselves astray, then it means we are not reaching out to God for connection and guidance. We just have to be honest to ourselves and desire Truth, EVEN IF WE DON'T LIKE IT.Cheers n Peace
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Very Good,
When GOD ALONE is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the
Hereafter shrink with aversion. But when others are mentioned beside Him, they become satisfied.Some folks are just not satisfied with God alone, they feel the need to "add" something
due to fear, ingratitude, disrespect, or ignorance, rather it be jesus, muhammad, john smith
(mormon), mary, or haile selassie. The question is, why can't followers let go of those
who point them to God?ONE DEEN
O0
Pixel Angel Baby, thank you to pointing out some good ayat, but you may also don't forget to ayat 3356.
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You may read my reply above this post.
As long as we not worshipping Muhammad saw like a God.
Verse 3945 is not a prohibition for honoring Muhammad's name, instead verse 3356 order us to do it.Thank you, Hawk99 and Earthdom . Yeah I should have added this one as well but I was a bit groggy at the time and forgot. Good points!
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Peace Man of Faith.
Maybe you take the free-minds translation very literally.Ok then just trash the verse 3356.
The free-minds translation says "you shall make contact with him", but it doesn't mean we made a contact with the dead like a shirk ).
The word "saluu" translated into "contact" in free-minds, and that word also can be mean "appailing".
Plus it's normal right if we honoring our heroes like national hero etc.
I'm not really mad at you, although I am very cautious in terms of how much I discuss with you after that encounter we had where I tried to be very very patient with you and explain everything many times and I felt the way I was treated was not right really. So, as you can understand, it will create caution and coolness between us, but that's ok, we don't need to discuss with each other.
handshake peace
To create a good and healthy discussion, first we must know the mind maps and personality of your opponent.But because it's a online forum, of cource we don't know each other unless you ever contacted me with any social network.
The only way to know my mind maps is by reading my post pattern in this forum.Plus I'am a man who trained about ethics since childhood, so the sentence such like "Me telling you will not make it magically connect in your brain" you pointing to me is a painful sentence in my view, but I will not mad because of that.Yeah because you're still young, it's normal to wrote some post like that like another youth do.
But I suggest you, to more careful to choose the words for posting especially in online forum, because we really don't know who is the guys we taking to, how if they are old man?, how if they're a temprament?
2263 Kind words and forgiveness are far better than a charity that is
followed by harm. God is Rich, Compassionate -
Peace all my friends.
Supportnotwar, Lets try not use hadith as prespective, but I will give you example
You're from UK right? then how you honoring your queen, you may say somthing like "Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth".By say something like that, is that mean you worship Queen Elizabeth as a God? Not right .
And the verse 931, you pointing out is about Christianity.Aamer.No no no no no.I'm not reciting Shahadat Nabi like dua in hadiths like tahiyat akhir.When I join Quran alone, I never again recite that kind of du'a, cause it's "strange".
Good point Bender.But the points you pointing out are advices from hadithsSo it's not wajib if we believe that or not.
Also Al-Azhab ayat 56, clearly stated.Yeah Bigmo.It's nothing wrong as long as we praise the Nabis in limittes as hero only, not as God.
Yeah we can also make a calendar counted from supposed Muhammad hijra and it's not disturbing our faith, because dIfferences in fatwa is not too important (see 2177)Haha.They're not Islam but a Muhammadanism.
Not only Sunni-Syia, but in Quran ayat 3356 is clearly stated that faithful man/woman must honoring Nabi's name.
Not only Muhammad, but also you can recite something like "Sholallah ala Ibrahim, Sholallah ala Ismael etc" .Man of Faith, don't forget about verse 3356.
While I agree it is Ok to give blessings upon Prophet Muhammad as well as other Prophets, I don't see how 3356 allows you to do it all the time like Sunnis do and include it in our Salat. I'm not assuming that's what you advocate, but I just wanted to put that out there.
What I'm saying is, it's okay if we hear Muhammad's name and don't say "Aleyh Salat w Salam" O. And it's okay not to mention him or any of the prophets in our salat, but I think praying for all the prophets, messengers whilst praying for mankind (you know, 'universal duas' ) and invoking God to grant them paradise, and bless them is perfectly fine.
Allahu A3lam.
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Peace all my friends.
Good point Bender.But the points you pointing out are advices from hadithsSo it's not wajib if we believe that or not.
Also Al-Azhab ayat 56, clearly stated.Salaamun alayka,
RED I believe you do not know me well enough
GREEN
3356Some points to ponder on
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As you can see in this ayaat is not talking about Mohammed, except when one is seeing invisible things.
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Lets suppose this ayaat is the evidence to say always "salla Allahu 3alayhi wassallam" after the name of Mohammed.
We can learn then from this ayaat that Allah and His malaikaat do this also always after saying the name of Mohammed.
Then why in the same chapter it is missing?
3340 Ma kana muhammadun aba ahadin min rijalikum walakin rasoola Allahi wakhatama alnnabiyyeena wakana Allahu bikulli shayin AAaleeman
Did Allah forget to say it here, according to this logic it had to be "Ma kana muhammadun salla Allahu 3alayhi wassallam aba ahadin ..." -
Yusuf also forgot to say it after he mentioned his forefathers
1238 WaittabaAAtu millata abaee ibraheema waishaqa wayaAAqooba ma kana lana an nushrika biAllahi min shayin thalika min fadli Allahi AAalayna waAAala alnnasi walakinna akthara alnnasi la yashkuroona
He forgot to say "3alayhim assalaam" -
Allah does the same for us, 3343
There are more things but I hope this will be enough for now.
Salaam,
Bender -
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Peace Earthdom,
That sentence you put in blue was me being blunt. Maybe you don't like that, but neither did I like the way you continued to post to me post after post on that other thread. I was trying to be as clear as possible, understanding to the fact that English is a foreign language for you and explaining the main points to you again and again - even though I felt hostility there. Maybe you didn't mean that, but that's what I recall. There's no point digging this up. But you have to realise it can effect things because of the way it happened, how long it was etc.
Another way I could have put it is I cannot make you understand what I mean any further. I feel I have explained it as far as I can.
Your post here reminded me of those previous ones, so I thought I'd be as blunt and forth coming as possible. No - it's not because I'm that young I am in my twenties. It wasn't meant to be painful, just straight to the point - humourous even.
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While I agree it is Ok to give blessings upon Prophet Muhammad as well as other Prophets, I don't see how 3356 allows you to do it all the time like Sunnis do and include it in our Salat. I'm not assuming that's what you advocate, but I just wanted to put that out there.
Peace AngelBaby.Yeah now it's in Allahu alam state.
But like I said, it's okay we honoring Prophet's name as a hero and as long you're not say "laailaha'ila yasool, muhammad" ;DRED I believe you do not know me well enough
Yeah atleast you're an Arab Netherlander from Moroccan descent.Is that true?
Btw thankyou for your further explanation, I really got your point.but neither did I like the way you continued to post to me post after post on that other thread.
Yeah peacenotwar, I'm sorry because at that time I'm very busy and cannot concentrate. handshake
it's not because I'm that young I am in my twenties
I'm also in twenties like you, but I will try to trash my teenager bad habith, because I want to be mature and archieve the brighter future.
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But like I said, it's okay we honoring Prophet's name as a hero and as long you're not say "laailaha'ila yasool, muhammad" ;D
But the quran tells us to not to make difference between any messengers!!!!
Please, this is NOT about thinking the rasool is god. It is not at all about that!! -
But the quran tells us to not to make difference between any messengers!!!!
Then I never stated if I made diferrences between mesengers
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Then I never stated if I made diferrences between mesengers
Sir, I know you didn't state it. However, the issue is what happens in practicality. And in any case, we are not really talking about what you or I do, but rather in general about idas.
If you keep mentioning just one prophet's name, then that is the same as making a difference. Why give one of them preference? This is what we shouldn't do. To give undue preference. This is making a difference, in practical reality. We are not talking about intellectual theories here. I know people often say that all messengers are equal in front of God and of equally good character, and yet they choose to keep mentioning just one of them. If you select one out of many, you are making a difference. Besides, and I'm not sure of your position on this, but generally, Muhammad is considered the best of the prophets, the most beloved one, the best of human beings, the infallible man etc.... a clear differentiation. This is tradition. But we cannot get away by saying we make no difference and then still just fill our lives with the name of one of them.
I'm also aware that the whole thing of mentioning the prophet beside God is a virus in the programming of society. You learn it as a child, and pass it on to others, like any other tradition. It's not easy to objectively scrutinize one's assumptions and traditions, let alone change them. Mankind gets stuck in a difficult soup of habit, tradition, fear, ignorance and insecurity. Many people fear what will happen if they stop commemorating Muhammad all the time. PErhaps they think God or the prophet will be angry with them? Only God can help us out of such ignorance.
Peace
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Peace Earthdom,
Zulf correctly states the problem
Please for your sake read this ayat carefully and ask God and only God for its
understanding.As for those who believe in GOD and His messengers, and
make no distinction among them, He will grant them their
recompense. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.God Bless
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It's an interesting point which earthdom raises. Quranists are people who don't have any love for the Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alaih wasallam), a characteristic of faithless and hypocritical people. The Quran is full of praise of the Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam).
Here are some examples
O you Prophet! Verily We have sent you as a Witness and a Giver of Glad Tidings and a Warner.
And a Caller unto Allah by His permission, and an Illuminating Lamp spreading Light
And We raised up your mention (O Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wasallam)
Indeed Allah has raised up the very mention of the Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wasallam among the believers. Everytime we hear his name we say "Peace and blessings be upon him" - something which Quranists never do because their hearts harbor enmity towards the Pure Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam).
The Quranists say that the Messenger of Allah (Sallallahu alaih wasallam) was just a postman (God forbid), whose job is to deliver the message and be on his way. But if that is the case, why has the Quran said that the Messenger is a Lamp that is spreading radiant light and the Quran also says to respond to the call of the Messenger that you may receive life, it also says not to call upon the Messenger (Sallallahu alahi wasallam) as you call one another, it also says not to put yourself before the Messenger (Sallallahu alaih wasallam), it also says to honor the Messenger of Allah (Sallallahu alaih wasallam), and finally, the Quran says to send blessings and peace in abundance upon the Messenger Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam).
The Quran says that the Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wasallam is an excellent example for us and is of elevated character and morals, and that we should obey him without question. The Quran says that it is the enemy of the Prophet Sallallahu alaih wasallam who will be cut off.
The Quranists are people who secretly detest the Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam). Therefore, they will meet the same fate as Abu Lahab, who was also known for hating and despising the beloved Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam).
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Peace,
Those who are like Israfeel says, they will be the ones that the prophet will turn his head away from if he sees them on the Last Day. If they say "Thank you" the prophet will reply "But why? Praise the One who sent me". No prophet would take the honor of God's doings, they are too modest and humble for that.
And why slam this hate Muhammad phrase on us, most people simply just treat him as a healthy role model, not a lord or god or intercessor. I like Muhammad like the other prophets, but I treat him as I would suppose he would like to have been treated while he was alive when it comes to praising or such things.
God bless you
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It's an interesting point which earthdom raises. Quranists are people who don't have any love for the Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alaih wasallam), a characteristic of faithless and hypocritical people. The Quran is full of praise of the Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam).
Here are some examples
O you Prophet! Verily We have sent you as a Witness and a Giver of Glad Tidings and a Warner.
And a Caller unto Allah by His permission, and an Illuminating Lamp spreading Light
And We raised up your mention (O Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wasallam)
Indeed Allah has raised up the very mention of the Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wasallam among the believers. Everytime we hear his name we say "Peace and blessings be upon him" - something which Quranists never do because their hearts harbor enmity towards the Pure Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam).
The Quranists say that the Messenger of Allah (Sallallahu alaih wasallam) was just a postman (God forbid), whose job is to deliver the message and be on his way. But if that is the case, why has the Quran said that the Messenger is a Lamp that is spreading radiant light and the Quran also says to respond to the call of the Messenger that you may receive life, it also says not to call upon the Messenger (Sallallahu alahi wasallam) as you call one another, it also says not to put yourself before the Messenger (Sallallahu alaih wasallam), it also says to honor the Messenger of Allah (Sallallahu alaih wasallam), and finally, the Quran says to send blessings and peace in abundance upon the Messenger Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam).
The Quran says that the Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wasallam is an excellent example for us and is of elevated character and morals, and that we should obey him without question. The Quran says that it is the enemy of the Prophet Sallallahu alaih wasallam who will be cut off.
The Quranists are people who secretly detest the Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam). Therefore, they will meet the same fate as Abu Lahab, who was also known for hating and despising the beloved Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam).
Just a postman to deliver the message of the Quran? And do you think being entrusted with delivering the Quran is just a postman's job to be given to anyone?
Plus why should we not consider that you think all the other prophets are forgotten characters. You did not answer the question as to why you don't afford the other prophets the same importance. The Quran surely does not assign any prophet more importance than the other prophets.
My take. The Ummayids and Abbasids couldn't claim to have been passed down traditions from any other prophet but Muhammad since he was a Meccan like themselves. So it made sense to them to downgrade the other prophets whom they can not trace hadiths to and focus on the Muhamedan character whom they can always claim they have traditions from passed down to them. The more they can glorify him as an independent legislature who cap pass laws independent and in many cases at the expense of the Quran the more they can change the laws of the Quran. In goal in the end is to change the laws of the Quran for their own convenience.
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Peace Israfeel.
I agree with your post such like we must glorify Nabi Muhammad's name.
But I disagree with you regarding your statement.
The Quranists say that the Messenger of Allah (Sallallahu alaih wasallam) was just a postman (God forbid), whose job is to deliver the message and be on his way. But if that is the case, why has the Quran said that the Messenger is a Lamp that is spreading radiant light and the Quran also says to respond to the call of the Messenger that you may receive life, it also says not to call upon the Messenger (Sallallahu alahi wasallam) as you call one another, it also says not to put yourself before the Messenger (Sallallahu alaih wasallam), it also says to honor the Messenger of Allah (Sallallahu alaih wasallam), and finally, the Quran says to send blessings and peace in abundance upon the Messenger Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam).
Because according of the Quran, Nabi Muhammad only ordered to became a mesengger of the Quran not as a legislative who created own laws.
599 The messenger is only to deliver.
592 If you turn away then know that it is the duty of Our messenger to deliver clearly.Then Allah only who have autharity to create Islamic laws.
550 Is it the judgment of the days of ignorance that they seek? Who is better than God as a judge for a people who comprehend?
657 Say ?I am on a clarity from my Lord and you have denied it. I,do not have what you hasten towards; the judgment (hukm) is with God only; He narrates the truth, and He is the best decider.?
This is my explanation, it's not my knowledge, but I just pick up from the Sublime Quran, so if you disagree, then laakum deenukum waliya deen.