The Smoke - Nuclear War
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Peach Layth,
Interesting article ) . Only God knows if this is going to pass or not at the date you have stated, and I guess all we can do is try our best to lead righteous lives. The end can come for any one of us tomorrow, or even this hour, we should always be prepared for it.Peace
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After reading that article again, I do not agree with it.
I am with my God. A kind and merciful God who concluded that the Jews, Christians and Muslims are one family and must live in peace. I will be God Willing with God and pray for peace and happines on earth for all people, be them black or white, male or female, Jew or Hindu, American or Chinese - all are God's creatures. May God bless all the righteous people.
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I am a bit confused as well. Do you consider Khalifa a messenger in teh same respect as Muhammad, Musa, or Dawood were?
Or, are you using the word in a different sense. Like, any person can be considered a messenger, as long as they promote God alone? With this connotation of "messenger" even you or me could claim to be messengers.
Sorry, just a little confused.
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Peace Layth,
Actually, I'm a little more confused.
You said in another post (http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2574) just today
I gave the example of the 2 'false' verses being totally bogus research based on the Hadith...
The issue of the 2 verses was a complete 'crash & burn' in my opinion as Khalifa contradicted his earlier statements and went into the Hadith to prove the case for rejecting these two verses
In your article
The details of Dr. Khalifa?s mission are not relevant to this paper, only the fact that he was supported by scientific proof for his messengership
The proof for his messengership being the discovery of code 19
Dr. Khalifa was allowed by God to discover the miracle of ?code 19? contained within the Quran,Now, here is the source of my confusion.
On one hand you are saying that Khalifa is a messenger. Someone who is bringing people back to the message of the Quran. Yet, the message of Khalifa is the 'Quran minus two verses' (for simplicity, I'll call this the Khalifa Quran and I'll refer to the common modern Quran as the 'Common Quran'). So, Khalifa is advocating adherence to Khalifa Quran and not the 'Common Quran'. In essence, assuming Khalifa is a mesenger, he is bringing a Corrected Copy of Revelation, much like Muhammad was sent to abrogate the past revelations.
But, you deem Khalifa's justification for the Khalifa Quran as false. You cited his justification for removal of the two verses as "bogus".
You also believe Khalifa discovered an underlying code 19 structure in the Quran. One facet of Khalifa's discocery is the occurence of the word "ALLAH" in the Quran. The word ALLAH in the Khalifa Quran is 2812, which is divisible by 19.
Khalifa was only able to make that number divide evenly into 19 by removing those two verses. In the 'Common Quran', the word ALLAH appears 2814 times.
So, in short, what I'm saying is
If one does not accept Khalifa's removal of , then
(1) You cannot believe in the Khalifa Quran
(2) Thus, the Khalifa Quran is a false Quran
(3) Thus, the so called "Messenger" Khalifa is preaching a false message
(4) Thus, Khalifa is not a messengerAlso, If one does not accept Khalifa's removal of , then
(1) One cannot accept code 19 (since one of its proof is "ALLAH" apearing 2812 times)
(2) Thus, by rejecting code 19, you reject Khalifa's basis for messengership
(3) Thus, Khalifa is not a messenger.These contradictions dissapear if you accept the removal of
-Ams
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Peace Green leaves,
Firstly, I believe all the Quranic verses given in that article are for the Hour. But the article seems to talk about the WWIII not the Hour (i.e. the Judgement Day). Then howcome the verses for the Hour are used to describe WWIII?
The only verse regarding the Hour was the one about the landing on the moon 541. All the rest were regarding events and criteria that exist in our daily lives (such as God's system of doom).
Secondly, are there any similar verses pointing to WWI and WWII?
Not that I am aware of.
Thirdly, the verses says Quote
?And when the punishment has been deserved by them, We will bring out for them a creature made of Earthly material, it will speak to them that the people have been uncertain regarding Our revelations.? (Quran 2782)But where/how have we desereved the punishment?
By our actions and our silence to those actions...Idolatry, wars, genocides, famine, homosexuality, lewdness, greed, nepotism, etc. are all being tolerated in one way or another...We are guilty by action and in-action.
In Iraq alone over 2 million people were murdered by unlawful economic sanctions while we sat around and did nothing but 'feel' for them...the list is long, and if you have a chance, do read the book 'Rogue State - William Blum' which has excellent material on the subject.
Lastly, lets come to Dr. Khalifa. The verse reads
xxxx
The article tells us that the messenger would go to the leaders of the capital and tell them not to be wicked. However, Rashad Khalifa simply preched to the Muslim world, especially the Arab world to come back to the path of God-alone. He did not go visit the president of the U.S. or anyone in the U.S. senate to tell them that they are becoming pre-occupied with this world and should return back to the path of God.
Then, I am wondering how does that fit in with what the article says?
The verse says that the messenger will be sent to the 'capital' or 'most prominant' of the nations/towns. That does not mean that he is going to the capital of the US, but to the capital of the world (which happens to be the US) since the destruction is global...Dr. Khalifa preached his message in the United States and in English...Recall that God does not send a messenger except in the toungue of his people (144)...Therefore, although Rashad was an Arab, his mission was to the English speaking world to whom he spoke and shared his discoveries and translation in such language.
By the way, how come in one place it says this about Khalfia
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=794&sid=cf82e426f9f21ee48804dd6dde226f10Quote
In my conclusion, Rashad Khalifa is NOT the messenger the prophets vowed to support in 381, but he has made a claim to messengership and required people to believe in him before they can be considered Muslim! (see his footnotes for 381). These teachings are not only false, but also blasphemous, and thus will incurr the punishment of 693And then on the article it says this
Quote
The prophecy of the ?smoke? requires a ?well educated? messenger to appear beforehand as mentioned in 4413-14. Dr. Rashad Khalifa has appeared to the US and made such a claim with the proof of ?code 19? as his sign.So do you believe he is or he isn't the messenger?
I accept his claim to messengership. I do not however accept his footnote about 381 or the issue of the 2 verses in sura 9 or alot of the other research he came-up with.
What put this issue to rest for me was Rahsad's own statement that 'he is not to be followed' and that only God's book should be followed...This clarified to me the message and how it should be distinguished/sperated from the person of the messenger...It is the core message of 'God Alone' that counts.
These days I see college kids pretending to be God's messengers and prophets because they know a little bit of Quran. It seems everyone wants be a messiah now-a-days... its like who want's to be a messenger? but I've studied Khalifa's work and it is truly remarkable.
The issue of messengership is not to be played with lightly although as you mentioned some people seem not to comprehend the consequences...
"And who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God, or says ?It has been inspired to me,? when We did not inspire anything to him; or who says ?I will bring down the same as what God has sent down.? And if you could only see the wicked at the moments of death when the Angels have their arms opened ?Bring yourselves out, today you will be given the severest punishment for what you used to say about God without truth, and you used to be arrogant towards His revelations.? (Quran 693)
Rashad provided proof in the form of the Quran's code, preached the core message of God Alone clearly and consisly, and did not ask for a wage for what he did (3621)...I would say that pretty much qualifies his claim.
Layth
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Peace AMS,
I am a bit confused as well. Do you consider Khalifa a messenger in teh same respect as Muhammad, Musa, or Dawood were?
Or, are you using the word in a different sense. Like, any person can be considered a messenger, as long as they promote God alone? With this connotation of "messenger" even you or me could claim to be messengers.
A messenger in the sence that he was accepted/commissioned by God to deliver His message/reminder...Not everyone who promotes the Quran is God's messenger, though they may simply be as you point out 'a messenger' (like Pharoah's messenger who visited Jospeh in prison).
I also accept that there is a distinction between Prophets and Messengers. So the comparison with Mohammed, Musa, and David are not accurate (they were all Prophets as well as Messengers).
So, in short, what I'm saying is
If one does not accept Khalifa's removal of , then
(1) You cannot believe in the Khalifa Quran
(2) Thus, the Khalifa Quran is a false Quran
(3) Thus, the so called "Messenger" Khalifa is preaching a false message
(4) Thus, Khalifa is not a messengerAlso, If one does not accept Khalifa's removal of , then
(1) One cannot accept code 19 (since one of its proof is "ALLAH" apearing 2812 times)
(2) Thus, by rejecting code 19, you reject Khalifa's basis for messengership
(3) Thus, Khalifa is not a messenger.These contradictions dissapear if you accept the removal of
I disagree with your findings/conclusions. Code 19 was originally discovered and promoted by Khalifa based on the 'initialed' Suras of the Quran. The research indicated that '19' was the key to revealing God's signature on the Quran and to answer the 1,400 year old mystery of 'what do the initials mean?'.
If you look at the code in its 'original' form the way Rahsad promoted and discoverd it then it completely is verifiable and fulfills the criteria stated in 7431 regarding increasing the faith of the believers, convincing those who were hesitant, etc...
It was only after this original discovery by some years that Rahsad and his group started fiddling with the code to make it more than it is...They began doing word counts, gramatical counts, uninitialed sura counts, etc...All this led to some very bogus research and results being publsihed, one of which was the removal of the 2 verses from sura 19.
I am sticking here with the 'core' issues...The proof in its 'core' form, and the message in its 'core' form..All else is a 'test' of smoke and mirrors.
Layth
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Peace Layth,
regarding the 11th of September, try to read Sura 105 while remembering that "The Elephant" is the symbol of the republicans.
http//img.infoplease.com/images/party_republican.jpg
Would be interested to see what do you think
Best regards,
sabosome urls about the elephant - republicans connection
http//www.nfrw.org/republicans/symbol.htm
http//www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0881985.html
1051 Have you not seen what your Lord did to the people of the elephant?
1052 Did He not cause their schemes to go astray?
1053 And He sent down upon them swarms of birds.
1054 Striking them with rocks made from hardened clay.
1055 Until He turned them like devoured hay. -
Peace Sabo,
regarding the 11th of September, try to read Sura 105 while remembering that "The Elephant" is the symbol of the republicans.
Would be interested to see what do you think
1051 Have you not seen what your Lord did to the people of the elephant?
1052 Did He not cause their schemes to go astray?
1053 And He sent down upon them swarms of birds.
1054 Striking them with rocks made from hardened clay.
1055 Until He turned them like devoured hay.That is one of the most intruiging and original views I have heard thus far regarding chapter 105...Your link in light of the 'smoke' prophecy makes a good case, especially since the 'people of the elephant' (republicans?) are accused of 'scheming' (this fits more with politicians than it does with an army comrised of elephants).
The swarms of birds would then be aircraft, while the 'hardened rocks' would be bombs.
If this interpretation is indeed correct, then you have given a clue as to the method of delivery for the nuclear attack, at least regarding teh US (it will be via aircraft rather than the old fashioned ICBM's).
Another peice of information I read was on the Submission.org website today http//www.submission.org/George_W_Bush/
They have found the '19' signature to be surrounding Bush's Presidency...More signals than I thought had existed are comming to light.
Layth
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Peace be upon you,
Are we going bakwards to te 19 "miracle" again?
1051 Have you not seen what your Lord did to the people of the elephant?
1052 Did He not cause their schemes to go astray?
1053 And He sent down upon them swarms of birds.
1054 Striking them with rocks made from hardened clay.
1055 Until He turned them like devoured hay.If "elephants" means republicans, what were the people 1400 years ago to understand by these verses?
Further, 1052 says that thier shcemes will go astray, so how can we deduce that they will drop nuclear bombs?
Further, the swarm of birds was sent AGAINST the elephants, so that would mean that he "planes" would be dropping bombs on the "republicans".
Birds represent spirituality, it will be, and always has been, a battle of spiritual nature (A mental battle). Satanists use physical warfare, Godly men and women use Wisdom (Wise arguments). Godly men and women only resort to phycial warfare when defending themselves from physical warfare.
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Peace,
if disasters are signals, there has been one much worse than 11-9 2/3 december 1984, Bhopal, 7,000 died (+ 15,000 died over the last 20 years due to the exposure to the toxins) and the gas could be seen, it looked like a cloud, similar to smoke maybe.
http//web.amnesty.org/pages/ec-bhopal-engIf the recorded History is right, wars, genocides, famine, lewdness, greed, nepotism, etc. have been always present among humans of all eras. Today we are aware of them at the same time they are happening because of the easy communication. Is is really worse today? Sure it is higher, but the population is higher too, maybe it is equivalent.
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Peace idolfree1,
Are we going bakwards to te 19 "miracle" again?
Why not call it warning? Actually I find it very wise from brother Layth, that he could finally concentrate about what we call "a core system"
Surely, the message of God is full of spirituality, but also in a large number of portions of the message we can find warnings from physical destruction be it from natural events we call disasters or from warfare.
in almost every "story" of the Quran where a message is being sent to a community and after a predetermined time the trigger of destruction is almost always triggered, maybe we can see the story of yunus as an exception.
Again a core means we don't go into details of an implementation because always there are mistakes in details. The core is what counts espcecially when it concerns us humans. Because simply we humans always do mistakes in the details of everything , no system can be built from us perfectly , else no development would be needed in life. Only God can provide errorfree cores and details.
As I see it as Layth, there has been a warning issued, that people are not believing in God, the consequences are not only spiritual but also physical painful. I hope that you can notice this arround you, because we are not only spiritual birds who fly around, but also physical creatures surrendering to the physical law created from Almighty God
If "elephants" means republicans, what were the people 1400 years ago to understand by these verses?
Do you want to say, that we can not have a different dynamic understanding to the Quran and we must understand everything as people understood it 14 centuries ago? Do we live like them?
Should I give up understanding the things arround me because I have to share my understanding with dead people who passed many centuries ago?
Should I really be concerned about how people lived 14 centuries ago understood the Quran? Then it is nothing dynamic about it if i would understand every detail like them . I think the common understanding between me and them about God is his Oneness, etc.. that every person is responsible about his deeds, etc. But we differ in taking the Quran as a guide in the circumstances surrounding us. For them, they had to ask the Quran for a guide through their time, environment and institutions, etc... to us we ask the God to show us from the Quran the way arround OUR time and environment.
He asked What about the first Generations, Moses?
He replied The knowledge about them is with God, my Lord neither strays nor forgetspeace and best regards,
sabo -
Saludos Elena,
if disasters are signals, there has been one much worse than 11-9 2/3 december 1984, Bhopal, 7,000 died (+ 15,000 died over the last 20 years due to the exposure to the toxins) and the gas could be seen, it looked like a cloud, similar to smoke maybe.
http//web.amnesty.org/pages/ec-bhopal-engIf the recorded History is right, wars, genocides, famine, lewdness, greed, nepotism, etc. have been always present among humans of all eras. Today we are aware of them at the same time they are happening because of the easy communication. Is is really worse today? Sure it is higher, but the population is higher too, maybe it is equivalent.
Actually as u said, because of the easy communication!
The easy communication made the world more global and more exposed to general consequences to all soceities. Since in the past soceities were not forming such a global union, the consequences of their deeds were limited to them, now the world is something like 1 global nation with many different languages and backgrounds in many cases also conflicting.
Best regards,
sabo -
Peace Layth,
Thanks for your comments. As I now understand, keeping the 2 verses in the Quran does not defy the code 19 discovered by Khalifa.
Still, I have some problems with your argument• Dr. Khalifa was allowed by God to discover the miracle of ?code 19? contained within the Quran, and which lay undiscovered for 1,400 years (7431);
• According to God, only sincere believers will be given access to the Quran?s secrets, therefore making Dr. Khalifa a sincere believer (1745-46);
• As God knows the past and present (2255) He knew in advance that Dr. Khalifa would declare himself to be God?s messenger;
• Since Dr. Khalifa was allowed access to the Quran?s secret, and since God knows the future, then it is further proof that God has approved Dr. Khalifa?s mission and that the claim is genuine since he would not have been allowed access to the Quran?s miracle to begin with had he been otherwise (6944-47).
My main qualm is in the first argument that "only a sincere bliever will be given access to the Quran's secret", which is based on .
First, I do not see those verse as being applicable. They do not differentiat between SINCERE BELIVER and NON-SINCERE BELIEVER. Instead, the verse differentiates "between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter ". Thus, Khalifa cannot be qualified as a SINCERE BELIEVER based on this verse. Instead he should be qualified as among THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN THE HEREAFTER.Thus, I do not see any justification for the claim that only a sincere believer can access the secrets of the Quran. For example, there were mysterious verses regarding embryological development (ex ). Keith L. Moore, a prominent anatomist and embryologist discovered the meaning of these verses. He was not a Muslim when he made his discovery, and he did not convert afterwards. Basically, I am suggesting it is possible for a non SINCERE BELIEVER to unlock previosly mysterious veres.
http//www.jamiat.org.za/isinfo/mquran.htmlAnother problem with the SINCERE BELIEVER argument is that a sincere believer would not lie. This was the next part of Khalifa's argument. Also, I believe a neccassary criterion for a sincere believer is to promote true revelation. Khalifa was not promoting Quran. He was promoting a different book. How can a SINCERE BELIEVER push away people from the true revelation and promote his own different revelation (i.e., Khalifa's Quran whose justification you deemed "bogus").
What put this issue to rest for me was Rahsad's own statement that 'he is not to be followed' and that only God's book should be followed
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Rashad provided proof in the form of the Quran's code, preached the core message of God Alone clearly and consisly, and did not ask for a wage for what he did (3621)...I would say that pretty much qualifies his claim.
Yes, a criterion for a messenger is to promote adherence to "only God's book", "he is not to be followed", and "not ask for a wage". But, the first criterion, IMO, is being violated. Khalifa is not promoting God's book, he is promoting his own book.I recall you said
It is not about the issue of messengers lying or making mistakes (Mohammed stated that God had forbidden something when in-fact God has made it lawful 661)...It is about the core message of God Alone and whether the messengers are telling you follow the path of God or whether they are telling you to follow them...
Yes, a messenger need not be perfect/infallible. 661 proves that a messenger can even violate an order of God (16116). However, creating a new copy of revelation, and discarding God's revelation (based on a "bogus" claim) does not qualify as a MISTAKE or LIE. It is a serous error that no true messenger could make. We are to follow God's revelation, not the revelation promoted by Khalifa. Khalifa has rejected God's revelation. The Quran asks a very important rhetorical question to the REJECTORS OF GOD'S REVELATION (7749-50).
Woe on that day to the rejectors.
Which Hadith, other than this, do they uphold?-Non-rejectors uphold/believe God's Hadith (Quran)
-Hadithists uphold/believe the Hadith of Muhammd along with God's Hadith.
-Khalifa upholds/believes his version of revelation and rejects God's Hadith.-Ams
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I don't agree witht that article. Only God knows future.
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This is an interesting argument. Though I am hesitant to agree with the prophetic conclusion in the article, I agree with the main point, the connection between 9/11 and ensuing events with Rashad Khalifa who was the victim of al-Qaida's first terrorist act in the US. When I read it carefully, I will write more on this article, inshallah.
As for those who are critical of Rashad Khalifa's honesty or mission, I wish they were able to study the facts with more objectivity. Though I had numerous discussions and arguments with Rashad during the one year I spent with him 7 days a week in Masjid Tucson, I found him a brave and sincere believer in God and His word. His life and struggle is evidence for that. Rashad sent mails to many prominent figures in America and all he received was dead silence and US granting Saudi wish for his assasination.
I say this since I personally KNOW that FBI knew the assasination plans days before his assassination and did nothing before and afterwards!
Please check the following links and references
http//www.yuksel.org/e/law/terror.htm
http//www.yuksel.org/e/law/benladen.htm
http//www.ict.org.il/documents/documentdet.cfm?docid=47
http//www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/upclose/elhage.htmlSome of news stories about Rashad Khalifa and his assasinations were published or broadcasted by
Chris Limberis, Terrorists in Tiny Town, Tucson Weekly, September 20, 2001, pp. 4-8.
Mark Hosenball, Another Holy War Waged on American Soil, Newsweek, February 28, 1994, pp. 30-31.
Tim Vanderpool, The No. 19 Murder, Tucson Weekly, January 19, 1994, cover story.
Tucson Mosque slaying may be linked to sect, The Arizona Daily Star, October 12, 1992, first page.
Ben Ladin's first Terrorist Work in the US by CBS National News, Dan Rather, 10/26/2001 at 530 PM. Eye On America.
Peace,
Edip Yuksel
19.org
yuksel.org -
Peace Lyath,
interesting article, although I have a question how did you come up with a prophecy of nuclear war from the followin ayats.
?Therefore, watch for the day when the sky will bring a visible smoke. It will envelop the people ?This is a painful retribution! Our Lord, remove the retribution from us; we are believers.? How is it that now they remember, while a clarifying messenger had come to them? But they turned away from him and said ?Clearly educated, but crazy!?? (Quran 4410-14)
Can't it be a smoke that come out from a natural disasters something like a asteroid or meteor hitting the earth.
Regards
Kashif
