Clothing code for believing women
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Nor walk in insolence upon the Earth (Surah 3119 Bismillah included)
I already told you if your tafseer is different with Quran Alone's.Like differences between Chatolic and Protestant.
- Smoking cigarettes - English style
REDYou're little humorous bro Israfeel.
Smoking Cigarettes is english style?
Did you know who is the founder of Kretek Cigarettes (mixing of tobacco and clove cigarettes)? the answer is mine country.
Because of that my country is rank 2-3 in term of smoker rating.Your term of english style contains some faulty, because this term is too racist.By saying "English" this means you only mentioning the ethnic in England.
Seehttp//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_people
Isfareel,
Had you been born in Europe.He's from Canada.
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Women must not get caught in that beautfied rate race.
I don't get it - why are women doing this to themselves? Is it really just the men that oppress women or do women do that to themselves/each other as well? Maybe its the way Western fashion is and is one of the consequences of vanity.
Yes yes yes! Couldn't have said it better!
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Peace huruf and pixelangelbaby,
I missed that post of your earlier, huruf... I saw the quote and didn't see your text in it.
Definitely - that whole competitiveness in women (and sometimes with men) just creates hostility with other women and I think every single woman - no matter how 'physically beautiful' will feel there is something wrong with her or something that needs to be improved. Having said that, I also believe that beauty really is about the person themselves not how they look.
All the emphasis on physical and outward appearance in that way is a stressful approach to life and the Quran encourage a relaxed and happy approach instead. Those 'most beautiful woman' competitions are just the epitome of this problem. As women we should be encouraging each other, not fighting or competing or wanting to get more and more attention purely for our looks - it makes us shallow and superficial rather than mature (not matter what age we are), with self respect, thoughtful etc.
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Peace supportpeacenotwar,
It was this need for display I was trying to get at when I wrote my previous posts in this thread, but it seems I expressed myself poorly.
God bless you
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Don't worry, Man of faith. No need to apologize for what you write. You do it with the best intention, and that is what matters. Sometimes it is difficult to guess the intention of the writer, but inyour case it is not.
Que bad thing is that this is such a trodden and squeezed for dividends question that if is difficult to say something and not builty of almost everything, as Richelieu said, something like that.
I insist that there is a very settled, established, rooted habit of interpreting anything the Qur'an must say and where women are involved, or anything else for that matter, from the point of view of its function for men. Woman, as aptly recounted in the Bible regarding woman's creation, is for men. It is preposterous to suggest that it she is as much for herself as men are for themselves. That is that she is the human being. Therefore if women do something what other meaning could it have than do something for the men? For women themselves? No, for humanity, and humanity is men. It is very simple. Not complicated at all. What other meaning could 24.31 have than that women do something for the sake of men? Impossible to find any other meaning for it. No matter what it says, we should not. And modernly, in the same way that goods are traded, evaluated and relatively understood in money and crimes in prison time, woman significance is traded in coverings. That is exactly the way to go about with women. How can anybody speak about women without dealing with clothing? There is no way. If you talk about men you can derive toward the philosophical, the sociological, the artistic, the emotional, the sportive, you name. Coming to women, no, none of that please. Women is a matter of covering or uncovering. Stop. Textile business whould fill the planet with monuments to women.
Let us see how long it takes till we get another thread as to whether it is permissible for women to wear feathers redindianwise. Y announce that that is the oncly cover I ever consider for myself. The feathers I don't dare to wear them yet, and it is not easy to get good feathers, but the headband I do. I love it. May be for my burial I'all wear some feathers. At least those who complained about a woman without veil was like rooster or something, my feathers should cut their complaints short I hope.
I was en Egypt for some time these past two years and I was so displeased with the difference it made with when I was there many, many years ago. The hijab "fashion", which I find ugly and gloomy, at least the way they dress in Egypt, has done away with the traditional peasant and popular atirements, which were graceful, joyful and airy. I hope they get soon over this brainwash and start being the happy and genial people that I knew.
Salaam
We are hypnoticed
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Peace supportpeacenotwar,
It was this need for display I was trying to get at when I wrote my previous posts in this thread, but it seems I expressed myself poorly.
God bless you
Peace Man of Faith,
No prob. Sorry if it felt like we were all disagreeing with you and you couldn't make yourself heard.
May God's blessings be upon you
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double post
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"What other meaning could 24.31 have than that women do something for the sake of men?"
I just want to point out, unrelated to the topic Yes women do something for the sake of men as much as men do something for the sake of women...we're there to compliment each other not to be enemies (as much as feminists try to present it that way). We are not independent of each other but interdependent.
Peace.
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I don't agree that having children is something women do for men - they do it for themselves too. That's feministic propaganda - as if women don't have feelings and need for children so that's something they exclusively do for the sake of men.
But I agree that no human being should be treated that way not even children.Salam.
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Who said exclusively? Why do you attribute things that have not been stated at all? That is not a fair debate to put words in people's mouths. What makes you suppose that "exclusively" is meant when it was not said and the very matter does not invite it? When a member of the family lays the table for all to eat, do you say that he or she does it for him or herself and not for others and that therefore nobody should take into account that he or she has doen that chore?
Women may or may not want children, but most usually they have them for the sake of both the mother and the father and even the grandparents or other siblings, then sometimes may be only for their own sake and sometimes only for the father's sake. Or wouldn't you do something like that for a man you love and trust even if you did not want children? What would you do then for him if you do not do the one thing he would not be able to do for himself? You would only do it for yourself? Not for him?
On the other hand, even if the women did it always exclusively for their won sake, THE FACT IS THAT IT IS ALSO DONE FOR THE FATHERS, even if it is not purposely. So, yes, you said wrong in all counts. It is done for the fathers, but the "exclusively" you put it, nobody else did, nor it is conceivable and why you did it I cannot fathom.
Could it be that you did so under the pressure of male chauvinistic propaganda? Because I see that you resort repeatedly to dismiss other people's arguments with the remark that they are feministic propaganda, as if the person who writes was an idiot unable to observe and think for himself or herself and spoke like a parrot and needed to be warned from the danger of such "witches". So when you attribute things that are not said, others, yes, could be authorized to attribute what you say to male chauvinistic proapaganda and it might no be as wrong as when you throw the feministic bit at others. I am not attributing to you or any others male chauvinistic propaganda, so please give proper arguments and do not call others victims of that type of thing without contributing a proper proof.
Other than islamic feminism I do not have any idea of where today's "feministic" propaganda is nor do a need any coaching.
Otherwise, if women in the west have any rights at all today it is to a great extent thanks to feminists, those ridiculous women (and men) who fought and suffered for the sake of affirming that women are not children, incapacitated beings who need forever the custody of men, any men. I may not follow any propaganda but I respect them and do not see any reason for anybody to disrespect them, particularly women who if today exercise rights they wouldn't have dreamt of a century and a half ago it is because those people exposed themselves to utmost ridicule and much worse things for our sake. Surely we owe them more respect than to the bunch of obssessed with womens bodies and their control. I do not know, may be today there are some bunch of feminists that are nuts, but in every ideology there are nuts, why you bother with those, and worst of all you why you throw in the fray what other people say, I do not know, unless you want to disqualify what others write and you do not find any other means, or may be you are afraid for others that they may fall prey to those "witches". On the other hand there is for instance an islamic feminsim which is quite worthy of respect and consideration and is doing a lot for understanding the Qur'an and which is upheld by women and men equally. Those women and men deserve respect and if we do not respect them, then we should not be surprised that further along the way we find that all our great rights as women have gone down the drain.
And I come back to that thing that women do for men that you deny. Of all the things that anybody can do for anybody else, I think that is the most important. By discounting iot or throwing it under the carpet and as if it was to be taken for granted and amounted to nothing, we are undervaluing the most intimate tie not only between men and women but between the whole of humanity and worst or the same thing, we are disobeying a very direct and absolute command of God I come back to aya 4.1 where we are told in imperative Ittaqw Allah wa ittaqw al arham "be conscious of God and be conscious of the wombs". If we do not do that as humans and as males and females we are failing in a direct command of God and we are failing to understand God's rahma and we are failing to have the necessary respect of our own nature. So yes, the main thing, I would say, the ONLY thing that women can do for men as such women is have their children, for themselves, yes but not least FOR THEM.
That, as women, is the true giving of ourselves, not some idiotic covering of head or of legs or whatever . And the funny thing is that most women know it and do it, but it as if it was some kind of shameful thing to talk about. IT IS TRUE, IT IS BIG, IT IS GREAT AND IT IS GOOD. If women do not give it the importance it deserves and God states, how or why do we expect that others will value and accept it as something valuable, as something precious? How can we be so ignorant?
Salaam
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Here's the answer to your question
- Smoking cigarettes - English style
Obviously you are very closed-minded and lazy to make some research.
The country that has the highest rate of cigarette consumption is Serbia and it is followed by Bulgaria, Greece, Russia, Moldova, Ukraine, Slovenia.http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigarette_consumption_per_capita
- Drinking whisky - English style
Lebanese drink liquor too. And most Quran aloners do not command it. You should read the history of liquor. Did English invent it?
- Keeping dogs, even sleeping with dogs - English style
There is nothing wrong with keeping dogs. It's just your hadithism that prohibits keeping dogs, even commands killing of black dogs because they are considered devils! Read Quran 1818 and there are some other verses regarding dogs. Nowhere in the Quran prohibits keeping dogs. Dogs will be dirty if the owners don't take good care of the dogs. Just like cats, ferrets, rabbits, hamsters, capybaras etc.
- Eating pork ham chops - English style
You are very racist indeed.
The country which has the highest consumption of pork per capita is Denmark!
http//www.nationmaster.com/graph/foo_por_con_per_cap-food-pork-consumption-per-capita- Shaving beard - English style
Before modern era, growing beard was common among men regardless their ethnicity. Alexander the Great grew beard, Johannes Brahms grew beard, Emperor Meiji of Japan grew beard, Abraham Licoln had a beard, Charles Dickens (an English) grew beard etc. There is no such thing as compulsion of keeping beard for men in the Quran. It's just your hadithism ideology.
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Wearing shorts - English style
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Women going naked - English style
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Reading dirty magazines - English style
These things also happen in Japan and Korea. What do these have to do with Quran-only Muslims. We never command these.
- Eating crabs and frogs - English style
I don't know what's wrong with eating crabs. Isn't prohibition of consuming crabs and shrimps only from Abu Hanifa's brain?
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Swearing to God - English style
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Insulting Prophets - English style
What do these have to do with Quran only? Quran only Muslims do not do these.
- Using foul language - English style
In fact Hadithers are prone to foul language whenever they are fighting against people who do not hold the same view as them. I have experienced this many times.
I've seen a lot of Pakistanis using foul languanges on the internet when they are arguing about sectarian.- Killing unborn babies (abortion) - English style
http//www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_abo-health-abortions
#3 India, #4 Japan . Eastern countries! By the way what does abortion have to do with Quran aloners? We do not support or command it.
- Doing sodomy (homosexualism) - English style
There are gay magazines in Lebanon! Why do you put the blame only on Brits?
By the way we Quran aloners do not support or command it.- Gambling and casinos - English style
Jahiliyya Arabs did this too.
- Going to cinemas - English style
That's what stupid extremist ultraconservative Salafists especially Saudi scholars. What's wrong with going to cinemas? As long as the movies are not 18SX. Animated movies are okay right?
- Eating with left hand - English style
I think you are insulting those whom their right hand has broken.
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Overeating like a pig and never fasting - English style
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Pretty much every evil and stupid thing that people do, where did they learn it? English and European culture. The culture of the kafirs - who are declared as impure and unclean in the Quran
O you who believe! Verily the pagans (non-Muslims) are impure
Why do you use the verse to insult non-Muslims? You are the worst Muslim I have ever encountered on the internet.
Let me add some more.
Child Bride - Hadither style
Suicide Bombing - Hadither style
Blaming women for being raped - Hadither style
Punishing rape victim - hadither style
Making women illiterate - hadither style
Honor killing - Hadither Style
For your information dear Israfeel, people with high IQ include musicians, composers (ie Ludwig Van Beethoven), painters (ie Leonardo Da Vinci). It just depends on what type of music and movies you listen/watch. Bad music is surely should be discouraged but it does not mean that music itself is a sin. Verse 316 has been manipulated by stupid scholars (
http//hazaraasylumseekers.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/talibanshootwomeninkabul.jpg
Is this what do like Israfeel?
I don't see any sense of humanity, peace and justice in you. All I see is hate, violence and ridiculousness. You actually do not love God but you are just a fanatic of law of blasphemy created by hadithers.
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Peace be with you all,
May we see only peace one day.
May the Force of God be with you
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Peace all
It's simple for why the Quran only gave rules about woman's dress code? not man?
First let's we intepretate the Quran with wisdom.I know with my heart, if the Quran is not discriminating gender, not anti woman instead the Quran is protecting woman.
Yes I agree if male and female must have the same rights, man is "strong" than woman, but the "woman" can also more strong then man.So that's why there is female pilot, military, entrepreneur existed in this world.
But what is made the woman more weak then man? the answer is the psycollogy.
Yeah I'm not a psycollogist, but according to some sources from any psycollogist stated if a man thinking 90% using logic-10% using heart and the woman thinking using 90% using heart-10% using logic.So that's why woman's heart is more sensitive than a man.The example is if a woman is sad, they will feel the sadness in long time and feel bad mood or crying, but not the men, they can recover from sadness so easily.The mother more care with her children then a father.
The more example is 90% dictator is a man, because the man only logic, not can easily understant the peaceful heart.By saying that, so that's why verse 434 is stated if the husband must protecting, supporting his wife with love.
Then let's implementated that fact for view the verse 2431.
According to dictionary the word "zeena" means beauty not adultery, and some book of tafseer says if the "zeena" referring to female body.So actully most of female body is attractive except which ordiinary apparent.
Male's sexuality is more explusive than female, because female think with heart, female can more easily restrain their sexuality then a man.So that's why the victims of rape always a woman .
The Qur'an is amazing Kalams, even it's more short then another Scripture, the Quran didn't against woman, but protecting them by how the Quran give rules of woman dress, so it can avoided the hypocrite men's sexual evil. (see 3359)
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Peace huruf.
I can also say you don't know man, because you're never became a man.
That was is not my own statement, but I quoted it from some some psycollogyst's.Let's not get debate over this, because it's a fact, as a woman you may realize too, how vulnerable is your heart.
I'm also already gave the example like the most of ditctor is man, mother is more carefull than a father etc.You ever wrote "love is blunt" in another thread right?
Actually that blunt is the man not woman.
Hahaha I remember someone say " If the couple or boy/girlfriend get divorced, the woman will more feel painful in the heart than a man, and a man also feel painful but it's more short then he will think how I get another one hehehe"Man think use logic, so that's why man is even more sarcastic and heartless than woman.Woman think use heart, so that's why the woman is more easily beguiled than a man.
Male/female is like yin-yang concept, they must live together, male teach female about logic, female teach male about heart.
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Peace huruf.
I can also say you don't know man, because you're never became a man.
That was is not my own statement, but I quoted it from some some psycollogyst's.Let's not get debate over this, because it's a fact, as a woman you may realize too, how vulnerable is your heart.
I'm also already gave the example like the most of ditctor is man, mother is more carefull than a father etc.You ever wrote "love is blunt" in another thread right?
Actually that blunt is the man not woman.
Hahaha I remember someone say " If the couple or boy/girlfriend get divorced, the woman will more feel painful in the heart than a man, and a man also feel painful but it's more short then he will think how I get another one hehehe"Man think use logic, so that's why man is even more sarcastic and heartless than woman.Woman think use heart, so that's why the woman is more easily beguiled than a man.
Male/female is like yin-yang concept, they must live together, male teach female about logic, female teach male about heart.
Eaarthdom, what you are writing there is yours now, is it not? There isn't still in it a gran of logic, it is pure dogma. It is because it is so and someone says so. That is it.
The thing is that I do not need a loboratory in order to observe people. People are everywhere and what you say is true or may be true for some people not for all people and not even for most people. I see and observe by myself, not by what they say. Hearsay is not scientific. What I see and hear an verify for myself is what I believe and you cannot bring even a straw from Qur'an that supports that unscientific point of view.
My mother contradicts you, my father contradicts, my plumber contradicts you, my postwoman contradicts you. Just off hand, to start with, further on there are crowds of people who contradict you. In this forum there are a whole bunch that contradict you. Like big brain who writes about scientific hadith. Plain and undiluted logic is it not, or is he a woman?
Bring some aya which says that kind of thing, but which says it, not that says something where you then start off on your own to derive whatever like Richelieu. Where does the Qur'an say men are 90 % logic and women 10% and 90% heart. I do not think so, in fact in the Qur'an there are big hearted men, like said gentle Yusuf. Was he not enough of a man for people's taste?
And what about divorce and being more sorry or less sorry? It depends on how much they were in it, not int he sex. It is so wild and far fetched that I do not know what to say. But I do know of men who comit suicide and if that is not takings things to heart then I do not know what it is.
And again, all that garble is not from Qur'an but from celebrity garbage science. It is very funny when one contrasts it with real life. Like an outsize joke.
And then of course in real life there is a lot of conditioning. Like when it was said that slaves were devious like women. Of course, when you may get punished for being direct you learn fast not to be direct. And the whole of society punishes things, like women not being attractive, just as an example. For older women it is not that much or may not be, but for teenagers, even younger and young women it may be hell and it may be destructive, it is distructive. There is a lot of studies, real studies on this. Do not forget, that not just sex was cataloguised the way you do, that race was also like that. For a long time racism was founded on science. So what makes you think that "science" for sex is less biased, preconditionned or honest than science for race. Remember eugenics? The same I said for girls goes for boys, but of course what they are harped on is different from the girls. So there you have your laboratory, you do nto have to read "scientific" magazines nor the garbage of the day.
I guess you are young. Keep your eyes open to everything and to real people, you may learn a lot that may make your life easier.
Still I suppose that this kind of talk is like the astrology in the newspapers, a passtime.
Salaam
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That is one awesome post. Thanks huruf.
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Peace huruf
Don't misunderstood me as an anti woman, if I'm anti woman this means I anti my own mother ).
Yeah even I former fanatic Sunni and ever became a radical and joining an Islamic organization, but now I'm already repent to Allah and I swear not became an anti woman again.Bring some aya which says that kind of thing, but which says it, not that says something where you then start off on your own to derive whatever like Richelieu. Where does the Qur'an say men are 90 % logic and women 10% and 90% heart. I do not think so, in fact in the Qur'an there are big hearted men, like said gentle Yusuf. Was he not enough of a man for people's taste?
Oke huruf. Quran is the Scripture, and Scripture never talking about something in systematical ways instead only talking about advices and hikmah.
Example As Muslim you may know about Khilafah system and Economic Syariah too right, because it's very popular recently.
But can you found that both system by only reading Quran n Hadith?Can you found parliament system, legislative Khilafah system or supply-demand curve if Economic Syariah system only by reading Quran n Hadith only?Actually current Khilafah and economic syariah system never founded in Quran n Hadith instead it's the result of Ulema's tafseer from Quran of Hadith.So both system is Ulema's own inovation then if the both system is implementated there will be more then one version of Khilafah system.
Now back to 90%-10%, of course the Quran never mentioned it literally but in implicit ways, especially in verse 434, if that man must became protector and supporter of woman.
So 90%-10% discoveries is one of the proof if the verse in the Quran is very applicable for our lives.Plus huruf don't take my post very literally and just reading in with wide view.Like I wrote something like male is more heartless, it doesn't mean if all mens are heartless, of course not all mens not like that like Nabi Yusuf.
What I mean is the woman is more hearthy rather than male.I guess you are young
Yes I'm young, I'm in 20s, but I'm already mature and have own soil sertificate.
Btw enough for this time, it's already in late night in my country, so hopefully we get more discussion in tommorow (if that tommorow exist)
Salam