Clothing code for believing women

unknownuser

Peace huruf

Don't misunderstood me as an anti woman, if I'm anti woman this means I anti my own mother ).
Yeah even I former fanatic Sunni and ever became a radical and joining an Islamic organization, but now I'm already repent to Allah and I swear not became an anti woman again.

Bring some aya which says that kind of thing, but which says it, not that says something where you then start off on your own to derive whatever like Richelieu. Where does the Qur'an say men are 90 % logic and women 10% and 90% heart. I do not think so, in fact in the Qur'an there are big hearted men, like said gentle Yusuf. Was he not enough of a man for people's taste?

Oke huruf. Quran is the Scripture, and Scripture never talking about something in systematical ways instead only talking about advices and hikmah.

Example As Muslim you may know about Khilafah system and Economic Syariah too right, because it's very popular recently.
But can you found that both system by only reading Quran n Hadith?Can you found parliament system, legislative Khilafah system or supply-demand curve if Economic Syariah system only by reading Quran n Hadith only?

Actually current Khilafah and economic syariah system never founded in Quran n Hadith instead it's the result of Ulema's tafseer from Quran of Hadith.So both system is Ulema's own inovation then if the both system is implementated there will be more then one version of Khilafah system.

Now back to 90%-10%, of course the Quran never mentioned it literally but in implicit ways, especially in verse 434, if that man must became protector and supporter of woman.
So 90%-10% discoveries is one of the proof if the verse in the Quran is very applicable for our lives.

Plus huruf don't take my post very literally and just reading in with wide view.Like I wrote something like male is more heartless, it doesn't mean if all mens are heartless, of course not all mens not like that like Nabi Yusuf.
What I mean is the woman is more hearthy rather than male.

I guess you are young

Yes I'm young, I'm in 20s, but I'm already mature and have own soil sertificate.

Btw enough for this time, it's already in late night in my country, so hopefully we get more discussion in tommorow (if that tommorow exist)

Salam

supportpeacenotwar

Peace to all those who truly seek peace,

The Quran tells us to use logic and reason. It tells every reader - male or female, to do this. There is nothing in the Quran that then tells women to approach the Quran differently to men in order to understand it or that they will struggle to understand the Quran because they lack reasoning or ability to deal with logic.

The way the Quran tells us to use our own reasoning as well - that seems like an important lesson. Although discussion is great sometimes, what is the real purpose of some of this discussion of the Quran? Does it really help all of us equally? I could go on about this but actually this is something I am considering in terms of spirituality and Islam.

huruf

Salam, Earthdom,

Yes you are very young, almost still in fairy tales. I am sure in another twenty more years you will have tought yourself many, many things. We all do. And no, 4.34 is not an explanation of discoveries or anything. It is something else and it has to do precisely with be conscious of God and be conscious of the arham.

And statistics do not make people, it is the other way around. People make statistcs or make up statistics, both.

Salaam

mmmm

I am sorry if I upset you but to tell you the truth I am sick of people falling for feminist propaganda which is 99 % of women I know.

You said "And I come back to that thing that women do for men that you deny."

And I said "I don't agree that having children is something women do for men - they do it for themselves too."

Maybe you didn't see "too" here which includes both of them. I am not putting anything in anyone's mouth I am just saying that when people say "women have children for men" it sounds as if women is detached from the whole process as if it's something irrelevant that she just has to go trough.

"Of all the things that anybody can do for anybody else, I think that is the most important." - I agree and would add and for themselves (because it's valuable) , maybe we didn't understand each other but what I am trying to say that the value of giving birth to children and raising them is undermined today.

Haven't you ever heard statements like "everyone can give birth but not everyone has a career/ or diploma" ? Isn't this disrespectful to the suffering and the work women have to go trough in the whole childbirth process and after? It's like something our grandmothers used to do but that's not important anymore and anyone who thinks that it is, is backward.

Women are pressured from the society to "have a career" and having children does not give the satisfaction or value to a women, they don't feel relevant unless they earn money.
It's OK if women chooses something for herself without any pressure but the pressure and the disrespect for different is too much to handle for most.

As you said and I couldn't agree more "IT IS TRUE, IT IS BIG, IT IS GREAT AND IT IS GOOD. If women do not give it the importance it deserves and God states, how or why do we expect that others will value and accept it as something valuable, as something precious? "

If you are interested in feminism today here is an informative link http//www.freewebs.com/feminism-evaluated/
I have to say even though most women don't know general propaganda of feminist it is making it's way subconsciously - so we have to be aware of some things not to fall in trap.

Peace.

huruf

Thanks for your post mmmm. Sincerely I was surprised at your answers to me. It was as if you had already placed what I say inside a previous mold which had nothing to do with me. Over the weekend I was trying to make head and tails of it. It was as if your were answering to something else. So I am glad that you have answered now the way you have done. I think now we understand each other better, or may be we simply understand each other. And that is why I say that it is good and proper that things should be said, rather than kept down for fear of upsetting people, because at least things can be cleared and cleaned and we may know better.

I am a feminist, I have been so since I was very little and I can say that for me it has been fundamental for my own self respect, self-confidence and self belief. It is a fundamental piece for social justice in the same way that anti-slavery or whatever, and that disdain that you mention for childbearing is not feminism, but a highjacking of feminism. It cannot be feminism something that disdains what which makes the difference between woman and man and defines what a woman is. But that is not a reason for not upholding REAL feminism, the thing that you attribute to feminism in fact is its supplantation.

Women have been abused clutching at their "fault" of being tied by childbearing describing it as an impediment for anything, a limitation that is accompanied by shortcomings in certain abilities. As you see, this is another case of the very common ploy of setting two extremes and forcing the subjet which is caught in between to go to an extreme or the other. Either women are handcuffed and imprisonned in "sacred motherhood" either they are made guilty for being mothers. It is the same thing, it is going against womanhood and punishing women for being what they are. Both attitudes punish women and hint at a deep fear or hatred (may be due to fear) of womanhood.

True feminism, true love of women and men, and true respect for what they are does not do that.

And the existence of both sexes is just like anything else God has given humanking to return to Divinity, a trial, a learning proccess where we are put to the test and we must learn, we must strive for justice, understanding, compassion, etc. etc. And it is dynamic. What may be just and fair under certain circumstances, it may tyrany in others.

It is pure cruelty to set women between two incompatible choices. There is no reason or justification for that. People are persons not a sex. And by that I mean that each person, man or woman, has its own world, its own individuality, potential, capacity, inclinations. We all have a right to be what we are and to become what we can become without our identity and being put into question. There is no reason to make us guilty and having to proove everytime and over and over that we are non guilty. Because the treatmen given to women is something like that, the presumtion of guilt to start with. Just observe and watch. Do not think of that others say, just watch, that is what I would say to whoever wants to know.

The truthful, most honorable Qur'an has been very much manipulated. But it is there, as a light, as the most powerful light so that the suppplanters of every noble endeavour on this earth do not succeed in dirtying those endeavour nor dirtying the Qur'an. The Qur'an is way ahead of any feminism, not by restricting women but by giving them the freedom and respect and acknowledgement that pertains to their individuality and responsibility. God knows and loves women and loves men that love women. Love does not constrict or restrict, loves gives comfort and support and that is what qawwam means, supporter, very strong supporter, not constrictor nor ruler, not authority as has been attempted to make it. That is the way that men make up for their inability to bear children themselves and the way they make themselves deservers of being dear parents of their children. They suppport, strongly support those who have that capacity og bearing children and support the burden that it entails. That is part of what 4.34 says.

That said, the world will continue to be the world and therefore imperfect, a trial, and there is no magic remedy to make every human an angel. There will be less and much less than perfect women and men, but that is no reason for all not to strive, struggle in jihad and to feel deterred because the world will never be perfect. We do it for the world for sure, but we do it because God made us that way, conscious fo our return to Him, and that that return can be painful or not painful, depending on how we acquit ourselves on this earth.

Thanks again, mmmm for your understanding. I sincerely thank you because I have the feeling that it has not been easy.

A great salaam to you and all posters.

unknownuser

Yes you are very young, almost still in fairy tales. I am sure in another twenty more years you will have tought yourself many, many things. We all do. And no, 4.34 is not an explanation of discoveries or anything. It is something else and it has to do precisely with be conscious of God and be conscious of the arham.

Yes huruf, you may also saw me as your own son, so for sake of our mutual understanding, so I may call you "Mom" ;D.

Ok but don't take this literally.

Quran Alone is different from majority Sunni and Syiah especially in tafseer Quran. In Sinn-Syia, the only group who have autharity for do tafseer Quran is only high ulemas (example Saudi's fatwas) so their intepretation became one single corridor of tafseer which can be accepted for the Muslim throughout the world.

But Quranist is different, we have no single autharity of fatwa and hukm, so the Quranist can do free-intepretation or freedom of tafseer (ro'yu).
The example is Quranist's salat is different each other and even each person.

Now back to your post, you said if the verse 43 is not about 90%-10% discoveries.
Someone said "Quran is very applicable for people based their each needs, situations and eras"

That sentence is absolutely true I think, yeah because we're freedom of intepretation, so you may not take 43 as supporter of that discoveries, but I'm not because according my point of view that ayat is very implicit for mentioing that discoveries.

Woman's psycollogy is more weak than man, so it's man's obligatory to protect or supprting woman, Isn't it?
The proof is in the most families, the husband is primary person who stocking the family's budget (nafkah).
(if you still saw me as descriminating gender, you can mock me by now or send some surah to me via PM for protesting my existence in this forum )

You said "And I come back to that thing that women do for men that you deny."

Peace mmm.Who is "you" you point to, mmmm?

Man_of_Faith

Peace,

Women are not particularly weak psychologically. In some ways they are more sturdy psychologically. I have read that they can take more pain for example, the pain treshold is greater. Otherwise I can we are vulnerable in different ways.

The woman is not having the same possibilities to build muscles and may not be as physically strong as a man, although they can become relatively strong through practice.

Men often seem to have more aggression and difficulties controlling this than women. Emotions can be difficult for men.

It all comes down to the flow of hormones in the body.

But being non-emotional like you tell about men is not a always a positive aspect psychologically.

That women show more warmness and emotions is a trait men should be jealous of I think sometimes. It does not men they are weak psychologically but rather the opposite.

Sometimes, when there is an emergency, male directness and cold nature may come in handy. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. God created us with different qualities and there is no inferior gender, that is a man-made idea.

God bless you

diamantinehoneybunch

Peace,

Women are not particularly weak psychologically. In some ways they are more sturdy psychologically. I have read that they can take more pain for example, the pain treshold is greater. Otherwise I can we are vulnerable in different ways.

The woman is not having the same possibilities to build muscles and may not be as physically strong as a man, although they can become relatively strong through practice.

Men often seem to have more aggression and difficulties controlling this than women. Emotions can be difficult for men.

It all comes down to the flow of hormones in the body.

But being non-emotional like you tell about men is not a always a positive aspect psychologically.

That women show more warmness and emotions is a trait men should be jealous of I think sometimes. It does not men they are weak psychologically but rather the opposite.

Sometimes, when there is an emergency, male directness and cold nature may come in handy. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. God created us with different qualities and there is no inferior gender, that is a man-made idea.

God bless you

Salam Man of Faith,

Thanks for being fair to both genders. And thanks for NOT being sexist by calling women who want equal rights 'feminist'

Leyna

Woman's psycollogy is more weak than man, so it's man's obligatory to protect or supprting woman, Isn't it?

Whether a person is "psychologically" strong or not does not depend on gender at all.

And what exactly do you mean by that? What do I need protection from?

The proof is in the most families, the husband is primary person who stocking the family's budget (nafkah).
First of all, this is not true. Secondly, it has more to do with traditions, patriarchy and culture.

Leyna

But what is made the woman more weak then man? the answer is the psycollogy.
Yeah I'm not a psycollogist, but according to some sources from any psycollogist stated if a man thinking 90% using logic-10% using heart and the woman thinking using 90% using heart-10% using logic.

I don't know which sources you've been reading, but this is completely untrue. There is a lot of very interesting scientific research about the brain and emotions out there. Not a single study I've read supports your argument in any way. In fact all humans ? regardless of gender ? make most of their decisions based on emotions, we wouldn't be able to survive otherwise.

If you're seriously interested in the subject I suggest reading the research done by Ant?nio Dam?sio, Jonathan Cohen, Michael Gershon, Richard Wiseman and many others.

So that's why woman's heart is more sensitive than a man.The example is if a woman is sad, they will feel the sadness in long time and feel bad mood or crying, but not the men, they can recover from sadness so easily.

I don't share this observation at all.

The mother more care with her children then a father.

There are many heartless, abusive mothers and many loving fathers.

unknownuser

Peace Leyna.

As I said I'm not descrimating woman since I follow Quran Alone, and already repent to Allah.

I don't know which sources you've been reading, but this is completely untrue. There is a lot of very interesting scientific research about the brain and emotions out there. Not a single study I've read supports your argument in any way. In fact all humans ? regardless of gender ? make most of their decisions based on emotions, we wouldn't be able to survive otherwise.

If you're seriously interested in the subject I suggest reading the research done by Ant?nio Dam?sio, Jonathan Cohen, Michael Gershon, Richard Wiseman and many others.

My sources if from psycollogy practicer from my country.I won't debate you over this cause I'm not a psycollogyst.

There are many heartless, abusive mothers and many loving fathers.

I never said if all mother is good and all father is abusive.The statement I made was based on my observation in my entire live.

But I agree with you, because I'm also ever became the victim of abusive.
I live in a village with most of people in here not well educated and face economic dificullties.So too solve the problems they're not use moderate thinking instead using traditional and emotion based thinking.The child punishment such like beating is became like a culture .

Mostly boys or even the girl under age 18-19 was ever suffering beaten from their parrent especially me, the punishment occured because they did something bad like get bad marks in school, go home very late etc.

Me is the worst one, in the past I have no much friend in school, and always became target of anger and beating from my parent especially if I get bad mark I must be ready to be punched and beated with a stick until I cry, even in elementary school I already have wounded scars scaterred in my skin, yeah it's just like in Crayon Sinchan cartoon.
Plus in high school time I ever planned to suicide because of pressure and school bullying but I'm faithful, I know if suicide is fatal sin.

But know I was never suffering like that again, because of course I'm already adult and I'm already forgive my parents because it's not their fault but the system we live in.

Ok this is a piece of my saddy past, to give some proof if I ever became a eye-witnesses of parent abusive.

mmmm