What is God's role with Born Disabled?
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Ws SL,
I saw Rocky too! Though as a kid and probably not when you watched it gramps Logic and fact apparently are on vacation in the good doctor's case. Let us pray they come back.
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Aoa
Now you tell me there are no thousands of accident care deaths at the hospitals every day? Are there no brain deaths at the hands of the doctors?
I don't think the good lady or for that matter any one with an ounce of common sense will argue against accidental deaths in hospitals. However it is hardly a CIA or KGB kept secret. However it does not prove your point that medicine & it's practitioners are evil. The benefits of medicine are infinitely greater than any harm that may be caused & before you start off one your long and pointless rants. It is universally acknowledged.
When you want to get in a modern vehicle, car, plane or whatever takes your fancy. You want to be somewhere quicker than if you set of purely on what you may perceive what Mother Nature gave you, namely feet. You may want to be near a loved one to pray for them or stick a needle into them to save their life. If distance of thousands of miles then you may be able to stick a needle quicker if you utilised modern transport. Whatever choice you make there is chance you night be involved in an accident and die. In this instance the disadvantages will outweigh the benefits. However I doubt that you walk everywhere.Anyhow the harms of alternative practitioners like needle stickers & supposed holy curers do is phenomenally greater than any perceived benefit.
And the organs are not stolen such as kidney racketeers? Have you not heard of all these around the world day in and day out?
For goodness sake grow up. Unpleasant humans in every walk of life not just medicine, although considerably less than many other areas.
Regards
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Aoa
& the cheque is in the post for your prayers healing her & saving her from the evil doctors.
Regards
Your shirk for money must go before you receive His Grace. Read Quran. Allah says you need to spend for food cause. In this case spend for your own good so that Allah would give you more. Because Allah does not waste the reward of good doers. I think you will read Quran before mocking. Have some fear for Allah.
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No one comes out of death, evil or otherwise, just sayin'. You've been ignoring pretty much everything anyways, why the need for repetition?
Then why seeking the doctors and how come you believe they are your saviours? Are you not ignoring God is your all time Protector?
It's okay for his cronies to 'shout' verses and thoughts in the same font size however. Hypocrisy much?
I am concerned with the posts you write to me. If someone shouts at you, you moderate them through due advice as I am moderating you.
Red Herrings (in 14pt!)
This shout is ugly, I dismiss it.
The real disrespect is refusing to answer any content whatsoever.
The contentious issue is whether to believe in god Alone or God also, thus committing shirk which Allah says is unforgivable. I am answering in the like manner and direction from where and how the question comes. The problem is your out right denial of verses. Now you say you cannot beat the death. My answer is then why docs. I am to the target. How can you receive when you deny and with your refusal?
On top of that, by putting allegations on the other person of being "incoherent, mad and throwing a tantrum" makes you appear to be a victim and garner support.
See your lies. When did I seek support from any one. You know my stance. Allah is my only supporter. And you never understand who you are replying to. I never even reply to any one acknowledging. "I am victim; I am garnering support" what is this? Are you disoriented?
When all along you're the one who's been disrespectful, making false claims and refusing to provide evidence, trying to sidle and slide out of answering pretty much anything, by bringing in organ removal, organ stealing, The Who (not even the band because that might have earned you some points) and so on. These tactics may serve you well in other places since you seem to have a lot of practice with them, but not here and not with me.
I am standing by Allah's verses disrespecting the shirk which shaitan induces; and not disrespecting persons as such. May be my replies will be much lighter than the manner in which I am receiving the question. You need to read all my posts again to see the truth I was attacking the system MM. I am not attacking personally any one as you and your coterie are doing against me all along. All of you are hiding behind your nick names. I do not even know as to who any one of you behind those masks so as to put blame on me I am insulting personally any one. But I have no masks. I garner support not but from Allah. So your insult is directly aimed at me. Not the same with me is true if you are one of understanding. You are open denier and mocker of the verses; where is the question me of playing tactics with you?
I doubt anything more would bring you to value Allah Alone and make you fear your shirk of Allah Also.
Salam.
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Then why seeking the doctors and how come you believe they are your saviours? Are you not ignoring God is your all time Protector?
The fact that after pages and pages of explanations of where, why and what is the difference... you still refusing to acknowledge those posts by comprehending what is said, is revealing.I am concerned with the posts you write to me. If someone shouts at you, you moderate them through due advice as I am moderating you.
By this point your various cronies/accounts are well established, though we do have some new clones come into the fray like dr.rks. You claim you have no idea what they're saying? Dream on. You don't care what they say as long as they 'support' you publicly. To bring up the hurt by someone using 14pt is ridiculous. Get a grip.This shout is ugly, I dismiss it.
Your claims are ugly. Sadly, one can't dismiss it in good conscience.The contentious issue is whether to believe in god Alone or God also, thus committing shirk which Allah says is unforgivable. I am answering in the like manner and direction from where and how the question comes. The problem is your out right denial of verses. Now you say you cannot beat the death. My answer is then why docs. I am to the target. How can you receive when you deny and with your refusal?
Proof that you refuse to understand what the other side keeps saying. Not even can't comprehend, but a refusal because you claim to understand things when it supports you. It's called denial. My hopeful nature however thinks that deep down you understand, you're just suppressing it because you've built up your entire persona based on this. In most cases of disagreements between rational people, they do tend to agree on some points because even to a limited degree they choose to understand something of what the other is saying...you're a very special case drfazl.See your lies. When did I seek support from any one. You know my stance. Allah is my only supporter. And you never understand who you are replying to. I never even reply to any one acknowledging. "I am victim; I am garnering support" what is this? Are you disoriented?
The trick to a discussion with you is agreeing with everything you say because no one can reason with you.I am standing by Allah's verses disrespecting the shirk which shaitan induces; and not disrespecting persons as such. May be my replies will be much lighter than the manner in which I am receiving the question. You need to read all my posts again to see the truth I was attacking the system MM. I am not attacking personally any one as you and your coterie are doing against me all along. All of you are hiding behind your nick names. I do not even know as to who any one of you behind those masks so as to put blame on me I am insulting personally any one. But I have no masks. I garner support not but from Allah. So your insult is directly aimed at me. Not the same with me is true if you are one of understanding. You are open denier and mocker of the verses; where is the question me of playing tactics with you?
I doubt anything more would bring you to value Allah Alone and make you fear your shirk of Allah Also.
Funny that you bring up coterie, how's yours doing? Growing by the day hm? Has a call to arms been sent out on the emergency channels of your website? Lol new grievance...nicknames! Are they haram too? Insulting a nickname isn't insulting the person eh drfazl? Nice, nice. I'm an open denier and mocker of the verses? Wonderful, new creative ways of calling me a 'disbelieving atheist'. -
Aoa
I don't think the good lady or for that matter any one with an ounce of common sense will argue against accidental deaths in hospitals. However it is hardly a CIA or KGB kept secret. However it does not prove your point that medicine & it's practitioners are evil. The benefits of medicine are infinitely greater than any harm that may be caused & before you start off one your long and pointless rants. It is universally acknowledged.
When you want to get in a modern vehicle, car, plane or whatever takes your fancy. You want to be somewhere quicker than if you set of purely on what you may perceive what Mother Nature gave you, namely feet. You may want to be near a loved one to pray for them or stick a needle into them to save their life. If distance of thousands of miles then you may be able to stick a needle quicker if you utilised modern transport. Whatever choice you make there is chance you night be involved in an accident and die. In this instance the disadvantages will outweigh the benefits. However I doubt that you walk everywhere.Anyhow the harms of alternative practitioners like needle stickers & supposed holy curers do is phenomenally greater than any perceived benefit.
For goodness sake grow up. Unpleasant humans in every walk of life not just medicine, although considerably less than many other areas.
Regards
There's no point SL. The tactic is to use emotional pleas, dramatization, liberal tarring by a brush over everything that is disagreed with...and the worst the red herrings. No one is saying we can't discuss aspects of a system gone wrong somewhere, but that isn't what he wants to do. He just wants to throw it in peoples faces as proof that it's ALL wrong and it's ALL wrong because of the medicine and doctors and not because they might be human with the same nature we all have etc. Good and bad everywhere, but ONLY bad in a system that comprises of so many people as well as aspects. And that's just one aspect of his agenda. The other of using the scripture as a weapon and what that involves, another of denying to use even basic reasoning, the lack of evidence to his claims and so on... It's clear at this point that drfazl isn't reasonable, if anything, this exercise is what we can call a learning experience as I frankly, have hardly come across someone so extreme on so many things/levels altogether.
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There's no point SL. The tactic is to use emotional pleas, dramatization, liberal tarring by a brush over everything that is disagreed with...and the worst the red herrings. No one is saying we can't discuss aspects of a system gone wrong somewhere, but that isn't what he wants to do. He just wants to throw it in peoples faces as proof that it's ALL wrong and it's ALL wrong because of the medicine and doctors and not because they might be human with the same nature we all have etc. Good and bad everywhere, but ONLY bad in a system that comprises of so many people as well as aspects. And that's just one aspect of his agenda. The other of using the scripture as a weapon and what that involves, another of denying to use even basic reasoning, the lack of evidence to his claims and so on... It's clear at this point that drfazl isn't reasonable, if anything, this exercise is what we can call a learning experience as I frankly, have hardly come across someone so extreme on so many things/levels altogether.
Peace,
Ultimately you are the loser. Without any knowledge of GOD arguing about GOD. Look at your Status. Verily Savaged.....Now also time is there Get back and accept the TRUTH. Read QURAN. I dont know you are and there is no benefit from you.. -
Peace,
Ultimately you are the loser. Without any knowledge of GOD arguing about GOD. Look at your Status. Verily Savaged.....Now also time is there Get back and accept the TRUTH. Read QURAN. I dont know you are and there is no benefit from you..I know who you are.
"Apart from his pay, which is considerable, Fett demanded only one thing an unaltered clone for himself. Curious, isn't it?"
Lama Su to Obi-Wan Kenobi, referring to Fett's request for Boba Fett -
Peace savage carrot,
"Obi-Wan once thought like you do, but you don't know the power of the Dark Side"
God bless you
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"What do you wish to hear? That I once believed in the code of the Jedi? That I felt the call of the Sith, that perhaps, once, I held the galaxy by its throat? That for every good work that I did, I brought equal harm upon the galaxy? That perhaps what the greatest of the Sith Lords knew of evil, they learned from me?" ~ Kreia
Such an awesome character )
peace
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"Apart from his pay, which is considerable, Fett demanded only one thing an unaltered clone for himself. Curious, isn't it?"
Lama Su to Obi-Wan Kenobi, referring to Fett's request for Boba Fett"Obi-Wan once thought like you do, but you don't know the power of the Dark Side"
rotfl rotfl Did you know why I'm laughing to both of you Savage-Carrot and Man of Faith?
Because you use movie script to tackle the arguments of a medical professor such like Mr Fazrul Rahman.
Maybe we disagree with Mr Fazlur's statements but atleast he already experienced in his field, did some tesis, did some research etc rather than Obi Wan Kenobi who is just manmade fiction character and all of Obi Wan's knowledge is just for movie script and to increase the movie's value only.
Just try go to a medical faculty in any universities nearby and just try use movie quotes as your bases in your tesis, dissertations, or any kind of workpapers.
Inshaallah your lecturer will laughing until he/she didn't realize if they're already pension ;D.I clarify, I will possibility neutral in this thread but I recommend you to don't underestimate the person such like Mr Fazlur and his companies like Jango, newmoon and others.
Ok it's just for reminder only and I never try to create hostility to both of you, so if you saw this post as act of hostility then please forgive me handshake.
Salam.
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"What do you wish to hear? That I once believed in the code of the Jedi? That I felt the call of the Sith, that perhaps, once, I held the galaxy by its throat? That for every good work that I did, I brought equal harm upon the galaxy? That perhaps what the greatest of the Sith Lords knew of evil, they learned from me?" ~ Kreia
Such an awesome character )
No wonder you speak the way you speak. Instead of being inspired by God's word, you are inspired by the Hollywood excrement and by the British feces "the Monty Python". So sad/contradicting that this savage ---carrot is an administrator of a forum that promotes God alone belief, and he/she has not put anything from the Qur'an or any other revelation into the words he/she speaks. this character sends into a very deep hole all the trust that a true believer can have in the veracity of the claims of this website. I am sure he/she is BURNOUT >D but wise never.
I just don't agree with drfzl that he or another can pray/intercede for somebody else. If the person affected has true faith,then God the almighty will cure him/her, but if there is no faith in the person, no matter if the whole community prays for such, god will not help him/her. Because, there is no intersession, and God does not help the wicket people.
2200 ...... For there are people who pray, "O our Sustainer! Give us in this world" - and such shall not partake
in the blessings of the life to come. (2201) But there are among them such as pray, "O our Sustainer! Grant us good in this world and good in the life to come, and keep us safe from suffering through the fire" (2202) it is these that shall have their portion in return for what they have earned. And God is swift in reckoning.Drfzl arguing with the savage ---carrot is a waste of time. Do you wish to guide whom god has willed to lead astray.
488 How, then, could you be of two minds about the hypocrites, seeing that God has disowned them because of their guilt? Do you, perchance, seek to guide those whom God has let go astray - when for him whom God lets go astray thou canst never find any way? (489) They would love to see you deny the truth even as they have denied it, so that you should be like them. Do not, therefore, take them for your allies until they forsake the domain of evil for the sake of God; and if they revert to enmity, seize them and slay them wherever you may find them. And do not take any of them for your ally or giver of succour.444 ART THOU NOT aware of those who, having been granted their share of the divine writ, now barter it away for error, and want you to lose your way? (445) But God knows best who are your enemies and none can befriend as God does, and none can give succour as God does.
You people want us to prove from the quran that god says "doctor and medicine are not the way/bad", but you are in the same position. Prove that the quran says "doctors and medicines are good for you". Measure with the same stick you measure. at least we provide some verses where the meaning that one must seek only god for help is implied, but you deniers of the truth provide nothing but your own Hollywood conjecture.
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rotfl rotfl Did you know why I'm laughing to both of you Savage-Carrot and Man of Faith?
Because you use movie script to tackle the arguments of a medical professor such like Mr Fazrul Rahman.
Maybe we disagree with Mr Fazlur's statements but atleast he already experienced in his field, did some tesis, did some research etc rather than Obi Wan Kenobi who is just manmade fiction character and all of Obi Wan's knowledge is just for movie script and to increase the movie's value only.
Just try go to a medical faculty in any universities nearby and just try use movie quotes as your bases in your tesis, dissertations, or any kind of workpapers.
Inshaallah your lecturer will laughing until he/she didn't realize if they're already pension ;D.I clarify, I will possibility neutral in this thread but I recommend you to don't underestimate the person such like Mr Fazlur and his companies like Jango, newmoon and others.
Ok it's just for reminder only and I never try to create hostility to both of you, so if you saw this post as act of hostility then please forgive me handshake.
Salam.
Good to know Earthdom, I will definitely keep movie and book quotes out of my thesis unless it's media related because you know, there are those who do get their degrees in such things. Just in case it wasn't clear, the quotes weren't 'tackling' drfazl and his ilk's arguments, if one can call them that.
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No wonder you speak the way you speak. Instead of being inspired by God's word, you are inspired by the Hollywood excrement and by the British feces "the Monty Python". So sad/contradicting that this savage ---carrot is an administrator of a forum that promotes God alone belief, and he/she has not put anything from the Qur'an or any other revelation into the words he/she speaks. this character sends into a very deep hole all the trust that a true believer can have in the veracity of the claims of this website. I am sure he/she is BURNOUT > but wise never.
I just don't agree with drfzl that he or another can pray/intercede for somebody else. If the person affected has true faith,then God the almighty will cure him/her, but if there is no faith in the person, no matter if the whole community prays for such, god will not help him/her. Because, there is no intersession, and God does not help the wicket people.
2200 ...... For there are people who pray, "O our Sustainer! Give us in this world" - and such shall not partake
in the blessings of the life to come. (2201) But there are among them such as pray, "O our Sustainer! Grant us good in this world and good in the life to come, and keep us safe from suffering through the fire" (2202) it is these that shall have their portion in return for what they have earned. And God is swift in reckoning.Drfzl arguing with the savage ---carrot is a waste of time. Do you wish to guide whom god has willed to lead astray.
488 How, then, could you be of two minds about the hypocrites, seeing that God has disowned them because of their guilt? Do you, perchance, seek to guide those whom God has let go astray - when for him whom God lets go astray thou canst never find any way? (489) They would love to see you deny the truth even as they have denied it, so that you should be like them. Do not, therefore, take them for your allies until they forsake the domain of evil for the sake of God; and if they revert to enmity, seize them and slay them wherever you may find them. And do not take any of them for your ally or giver of succour.444 ART THOU NOT aware of those who, having been granted their share of the divine writ, now barter it away for error, and want you to lose your way? (445) But God knows best who are your enemies and none can befriend as God does, and none can give succour as God does.
You people want us to prove from the quran that god says "doctor and medicine are not the way/bad", but you are in the same position. Prove that the quran says "doctors and medicines are good for you". Measure with the same stick you measure. at least we provide some verses where the meaning that one must seek only god for help is implied, but you deniers of the truth provide nothing but your own Hollywood conjecture.
Didn't know you'd be so affected by these little links to heap so much abuse all in one sitting, touched a nerve apparently. People like you go around calling others disbelievers left right and centre and think that's completely fine as long as we add an verse somewhere it proves we're so pious. You're the ones making the assertions, so prove it?
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Workmmn
So heartening to see your post full of verses rightly placed amidst your view points as pearls. I would like to add certain points regarding intercession. 999, 9103. Allah accepts intercession from who He Will. And there are other verses similarly which also will come for exchange of view points.
May God Bless Us All
drfazl -
peace drfazl
glory be to God lord of the worlds, the only deserving of praise, with Whom one has everything, and without Him, nothing.
Yes, I understand that praying for somebody/intercession could be accepted by the All Merciful. but as I understand, please don't misunderstand me, only if person 1 (person praying) knows person 2 (person sick) and both are close. then, if 1 prays for the well being of 2, maybe it will be accepted. however, I don't believe this is possible in the case of 2 asking 1 to pray for him/her if they do not know each other, much worse if 2 is paying 1 for the praying. Therefore, I believe that one can only pray/intercede for a brother/sister/family who is near and well known. If not, then the people asking intercession to prophet Muhammad who died/is not in this world since long time ago will have an argument against us.
999However, among the bedouin there are such as believe in God and the Last Day, and regard all that they spend (in God's cause] as a means of drawing them nearer to God and of the Apostle's prayers. Oh, verily, it shall be a means of nearness to them, God will admit them unto His grace verily, God is muchforgiving, a dispenser of grace!
about 9103, my current understanding is that it applied only to the prophet when he was alive.may God bless us all and increase our wisdom, so that we don't become donkeys full of books, for knowledge and wisdom is not the same. knowledge is acquired, whereas wisdom is God given.
All I am is because of my Lord the Most Merciful, and without Him I am nothing.
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Peace,
In case you did not know, Star Wars is really good to make an allegory of. Check my old 'the Star Wars' allegory thread (which sadly did not get much attention
God bless you
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Workmmn
So heartening to see your post full of verses rightly placed amidst your view points as pearls. I would like to add certain points regarding intercession. 999, 9103. Allah accepts intercession from who He Will. And there are other verses similarly which also will come for exchange of view points.
May God Bless Us All
drfazlPeace Good Doctor,
First, ayats 9/99-9/103 are not about intercession but about the character of the
arab people. But that is not what my post is about, while I do not subcribe to
faith healing as such, I make dua'a for all my needs including health. Having
said that, I am a strong believer in science as a tool and that would include
medical science as well. My granddaughter is alive today because of the
advances in medicine. I will sum up this segment by using the "fire" analogy
to medicine "Fire is helpful, but can also be harmful".My question is, I have been a partaker of herbs for some time, for the last
sixty days I have been taking bee pollen, korean gingseng, and a vitamin/mineral
suppliment. Is this a good regiment?God Bless
peace
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Peace.
I am critical to suggest that knowledge about purity and impurity, wellness and sickness, useful and harmful, have not been grasped fully by man of today.
Where is the spirit of learning to discover the trillion bits of information created by Allah as ayats in the heavens and the earth, around us and within us? Are we not still searching for answers to many of our problems? To me, the God?s system enables us to become discoverers of knowledge and to become problem solvers. We pursue to become agronomists, pathologists, entomologists, physiotherapists, climatologist, Stem-Cellogists and what not to discover God?s wonderful creation and to solve our problems in life.
Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and earth, and the alternation of the night and the day, and the ships which sail through the sea with that which benefits people, and what Allah has sent down from the heavens of rain, giving life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and dispersing therein every moving creature, and directing of the winds and the clouds controlled between the heaven and the earth are ayats for a people who use reason.(2164)
Why is it the world created as such to have good and bad, useful and harmful, peace and chaos, so that we human can think and reason things and to be able to make a choice between good and evil.
Many of us, if not all, have gone through 20, 30, 40, 50 and 60 years of living in ignorance, or lack of knowledge, or just being apathetic towards our own well being. Take food intake for instance. We have been taking the wrong food, the wrong diet, for many years. We eat not for the healthy growth and maintenance of the well being of our cells, but to the wish of our likings and mainly to satisfy our taste buds. Our cells are suffering and deteriorating. Some, as an example, someone close to me, got a cancer, a benign type.So, she has to look for a problem solver. Whether the conventional or the alternative. She went through both methods. Her parents believe in the alternative method. She had seizures almost everyday. Then I took her to seek an advice from a medical practitioner, he scanned, and suggested a surgery with fifty-fifty chance of success. Finally, she went into the surgical room and had the operation to remove the egg size tumor in the brain and she survived to date (after 20 years).
I believe that all phenomena are created in truth by Allah, the Creator. His creations are everywhere, around us and within us. We are descendants of scientists.
And He taught Adam the names - all of them. Then He showed them to the angels and said, "Inform Me of the names of these, if you are truthful." (231)
Knowledge is what we construct as meanings about an existing reality or a phenomenon. How we act with that knowledge makes a difference. As believers we seek His knowledge and we seek His guidance.
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peace drfazl
999However, among the bedouin there are such as believe in God and the Last Day, and regard all that they spend (in God's cause] as a means of drawing them nearer to God and of the Apostle's prayers. Oh, verily, it shall be a means of nearness to them, God will admit them unto His grace verily, God is muchforgiving, a dispenser of grace!
about 9103, my current understanding is that it applied only to the prophet when he was alive.
Peace wrkmmn
Peace hawk99Consider the following ayat
If Allah has given the prophets special admission to His Nearness and grace, he also promises to mankind that His Grace is not forbidden to any of His bondmen in the ayat below
- So that the followers of the Quran, might not be of the view that they do not gain anything of the grace of Allah. And that grace is in Allah's hand, He gives it to whom He pleases; and Allah is the Lord of mighty grace.
I want both your views on this ayat.
And with reference to the following ayat Unless Allah accepts and permits you will not gain the desired results. And on the same grounds if the prayers are answered and you get the desired result, does it not also mean Allah had permitted and accepted intercession from the interceding person?
- And intercession will not avail aught with Him save of him whom He permits.
Please give your opinions.
Salam,
wrkmmn,
hawk99drfazl