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  4. Akhenaten - was he a Monotheist?

Akhenaten - was he a Monotheist?

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    tauhid101
    wrote on last edited by
    #18

    Peace be within you, Man of Faith

    Peace supportpeacenotwar,

    Yes, it is as simple as that.

    1. Believe in God
    2. Judgment day
    3. Lead a righteous life

    People make God and His system/religion complicated while God does not want to make it hard at all for us.

    Some details are written in Quran though, but nothing particularly hard to obey and follow. Those things are recommendations however. Quran gives us lot of clear guidelines and a few fixed rules.

    God bless you

    Yes brother Man of Faith. It is that simple because our Lord too has set upon Himself the Law, forgot the chapter and no. will post it if you want. But the Law He set upon Himself is this, "Those who believe and do good in this world, and did not know about the Truth, did not commit any sin." And He never lets go any of His creation, if He lets ago astray.. He is after all the Most Gracious and the Most Merciful.

    Since we are all guided to His Books for the Truth, there is always a purpose, MoF. God alone or Quran only members from around the world is only about 30,000 members, out of the 7 billions He created. "Who wants to be the helpers of Allah," as the Prophet Isa said. Also the purpose of understanding His Truth, so that He establish/write His living words of Truth into our heart, which is called the spirit of Truth/ the faith/ the iman, which will be our testimony and a witness against ourselves when we meet Him, upon death. It is the true resurrection in this life with His light of Truth.

    Peace and blessings be within you.
    tauhid101

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      supportpeacenotwar
      wrote on last edited by
      #19

      Peace tauhid101,

      I will answer your question "Well, its a rhetoric, and I was asking it for wanting to put them in your approach. That's clear things up, I hope. But why do you still maintain the arabic word Islam and the word Quran?"

      I think I understand what you mean. If I do, because essentially you are saying in asking those questions that with those three systems - you wondered if I believed God sent them down separately. I don't know why you would think I believe them and put them in my approach Haven't you seen any of my other responses on here? I reject the hadith based version of Islam, I don't follow the second shahadah etc. I was never even brought up in traditional Islam. If you please also consider that I've mentioned this several times elsewhere, I don't really want to get into my life story on quite a few threads here.

      I think I'll also clarify why I posted this thread its because I came across it and just thought it was noteworthy. I wanted to share it in case anyone else found it noteworthy and hadn't come across it. Going of the responses to this thread, only one person so far has found it of interest. Even if its only of interest to one person, that's still good to me. There are always parts of history we may never know - I don't believe Allah expects us constantly search for that, but if we want to enquire we can but its not incumbent on every believer to do that.

      When you keep saying that the Creator will favour me with the truth - are you saying I don't already believe in the Quran? You just agreed with Man of Faith, that it's that simple. But Man of Faith was simply agreeing and confirming what I said. I really don't understand why you are saying that and why you keep implying that I don't have the truth or that I have not been guided yet to the truth.

      If the truth is that everything is also in submissions/ordered by our Creator and we are simply back with that natural order - then the truth is not just words or a recitation. The truth is about living and actually practicing what you believe, as best you can and as is humanly possible, with all people, with all things, without prejudice as our Creator intends.

      What do you mean why do I still maintain the words Islam and the Quran? Everyone here uses these words. The Quran is used to describe that book and recitation called the Quran. I view Islam as defined in the Quran - as I already stated in the post to you and to further explain as part of a whole order, a whole natural order from our Creator.

      I am really puzzled at the way you are corresponding with me. It's like you think I am not following what you are, which you think you are following the truth, and then on the other hand you are agreeing with Man of Faith, who is actually only agreeing with me. Man of Faith and I both agree on the same thing, so if you think he has the answer - well I just said the same thing. Can you understand the way this seems very strange?

      I also believe that the Quran provides test and challenges in it for the believers. When the Quran talks of hypocrities - don't be of those who think its just the people who follow the hadith. the Quran provides examples of people who say everything right - even in the time of Prophet Muhammad, which was a Quran only time - but they don't believe, they are knowingly corrupt/unfair/unjust and Allah swt does not love the corrupt.

      So in my opinion, at least some of the things on this forum - or even the nature of this forum and the way people are here (and possibly elsewhere as a whole) Allah knows best - are an exact example of some of the things warned about in the Quran... maybe a little controversial there, but look for it and you'll see it. And I wouldn't want to get into any examples, it's just something to consider.

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        tauhid101
        wrote on last edited by
        #20

        Peace be within you, supportpeacenotwar

        Peace, supportpeacenotwar, I am so sorry if my correspondence to you seems like I presume too much. As God is my only witness, I have no intentions whatsoever to presume anything. I'm so sorry. -[

        I think I have a lot to learn in writing my thoughts and communications through forum. Please, accept my apologies. -[

        Peace and blessings be within you
        tauhid101

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          supportpeacenotwar
          wrote on last edited by
          #21

          Peace be upon you tauhid101,

          That's ok, I accept your apology. Please don't feel embarrased. English is also a foreign language for you so I understand that at times there could be some issues around expressions of phrases etc as well. I'm sure many people, including myself, at times could have expressed ourselves better! We all learn along the way.

          You raised many important points on the other topics you mentioned and I very much agree with and support your critical approach to popular conceptions in history - the only thing was the way the questions about my beliefs were asked as I've already mentioned, so no need to again.

          Also, please don't take the last comment personally - it really was a general comment about how I feel about this forum/aspects of this forum. I'm the type of person who expresses these things so it really was a general comment.

          May Allah swt shower you with peace and blessings

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            tauhid101
            wrote on last edited by
            #22

            Peace be within you, supportpeacenotwar

            I'm so sorry if you think I'm questioning your beliefs.
            I don't have the rights to questions anyone's belief. I need a lot to learn, especially communicating through forums, don't I? -[

            Thank you for understanding and its around 5.00am here, need the sleep.

            Peace and blessings be within you.
            tauhid101

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              supportpeacenotwar
              wrote on last edited by
              #23

              Peace be upon you tauhid101,

              I think this is possible to rectify quite easily you can ask questions about my beliefs - my suggestion, if you want it, in terms of what happened here is to ask more open ended questions that gives more room for the person to answer themselves avoiding presumptions in the question how do you practice Islam, what do you believe about Islam, what do you believe about the Quran? etc That way the individual can confirm for you what they believe rather than it sounding like you are saying they believe in things they don't really believe in (and that they need the truth when they already believe in what you might believe in!)

              Enjoy your rest!

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                supportpeacenotwar
                wrote on last edited by
                #24

                So in my opinion, at least some of the things on this forum - or even the nature of this forum and the way people are here (and possibly elsewhere as a whole) Allah knows best - are an exact example of some of the things warned about in the Quran... maybe a little controversial there, but look for it and you'll see it. And I wouldn't want to get into any examples, it's just something to consider.

                Ok, so I've been in a PM exchange with someone else - about a similar topic to this, and I feel that this can get misunderstood. So I'd like to add a few quick clarifier about I mean. What I'm essentially saying is that any place or anything can be separate or apart from the teachings or God - even if it a place with more people who are following Quran only. So really it comes back to the point about being guided and what that really means.

                A non-Muslim can tell us that the hadiths are flawed and that the Quran actually doesn't tell us to follow hadith. Is that guidance? Or is guidance actually following what you profess to uphold? Not looking for division, being concerned with justice and a general fair or just attitude, non-arrogance and so on. So guidance is more about living your faith for God, not just saying "well I know this about the Quran" etc.

                Anyway, its also what I've noticed upon reflection. I've found that I can end up agreeing much more with some atheists, Pagans, other people about some issues regarding how we conduct ourselves, central principles, thanI do even with "Quran only". So its an ongoing reflection thing for me. I just wanted to add that in case anyone reads this and get a very different impression. Forums are forums yes, I've been on a fair few and they're a lot like this (I guess that's the point I'm getting at in this post although anyone can join we a lot of us here are quran followers of some kind), but this is about the way many in Quran only hold this view that we can have a better code of conduct etc - otherwise would we believe in it and consider it truth? - compared to hadith followers or others on a "wrong" path? Is it really that simple or do some of them actually have a form of guidance in fact? Other faiths probably have this sort of deliberation too, I think its a human thing to do. I don't think its just peculiar to us. Anyway, getting too deep now, and its getting late.

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                  ephraim7
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #25

                  Has anyone here read the claims of Ahmed Osman, that Akhenaten is/was Moses?

                  http//www.ahmedosman.com/

                  MOSES AND AKHENATEN

                  One And The Same Person

                  The First Monotheist

                  Akhenaten is the most mysterious and interesting of all the ancient Egyptian pharaohs. He created a revolution in religion, philosophy, and art that resulted in the introduction of the first monotheistic form of worship known in history. Sigmund Freud, father of psychoanalysis, was the first to suggest a connection between Moses and Akhenaten. In his last book, Moses and Monotheism, published in 1939, Freud argued that the biblical Moses was an official in the court of Akhenaten, and an adherent of the Aten religion. After the death of Akhenaten, Freud's theory goes, Moses selected the Israelite tribe living east of the Nile Delta to be his chosen people, took them out of Egypt at the time of the Exodus, and passed on to them the tenets of Akhenaten's religion. When modern archaeologists came across the strangely-drawn figure of Akhenaten in the ruins of Tell el-Amarna in the middle of the 19th century, they were not sure what to make of him. Some thought he was a woman disguised as a king. By the early years of the 20th century when the city of Amarna had been excavated and more became known about him and his family, Akhenaten became a focus of interest for Egyptologists, who saw him as a visionary humanitarian as well as the first monotheist.

                  In my attempt to pursue Freud's theory through the examination of recent archaeological findings, I came to the conclusion that Moses was Akhenaten himself. The son of Amenhotep III and Queen Tiye (daughter of Yuya, whom I have identified as Joseph the patriarch), Akhenaten had an Egyptian father and an Israelite mother. Yuya had been appointed by Tuthmosis IV to be the Master of the King's Horses and Deputy of the Royal Chariotry. On coming to the throne, and according to Egyptian customs, Amenhotep III married his sister Sitamun, who was just a child of three years at the time. However, in his Year 2, Amenhotep decided to also marry Yuya's daughter Tiye, the girl whom he loved, and made her, rather than Sitamun, his Great Royal Wife, his queen. (According to Egyptian customs the king could marry as many women as he desired, however the queen, whose children would follow him on the throne, had to be his sister, the heiress.) As a wedding present, Amenhotep presented Tiye with the frontier fortress of Zarw, in the area of modern Kantara in north Sinai, the capital of the Land of Goshen, mentioned by the Bible as the area where the Israelites dwelled in Egypt. Here he built a summer palace for her. To commemorate his marriage with Tiye, the king issued a large scarab and sent copies of it to foreign kings and princes.

                  The Birth of Moses

                  Amenhotep, who was later known as Akhenaten and Moses, was born in Year 12 of his father Amenhotep III, 1394 BC, in the summer royal palace in the border city of Zarw in northern Sinai. Zarw, modern Kantara East, was the center of the land of Goshen where the Israelites dwelt, and in the same location where the biblical Moses was born. But contrary to the biblical account, Moses was born inside the royal palace. His mother Queen Tiye had an elder son, Tuthmosis, who died a short time before Amenhotep's birth. Tuthmosis had been educated and trained at the royal residence in Memphis before he mysteriously disappeared?believed to have been kidnapped and assassinated by the Amun priests. Fearing for his safety, Tiye sent her son, the infant Amenhotep, by water to the safekeeping of her father's Israelite family outside the walls of Zarw. (Which was the origin of the biblical baby-in-the-bulrushes story.)

                  The reason for the priests' hostility to the young prince was the fact that Tiye, his mother, an Israelite, was not the legitimate heiress to the throne. She couldn't therefore be accepted as a consort for the state god Amun. If Tiye's son acceded to the throne, this would be regarded as forming a new dynasty of non-Amunite kings over Egypt. During his early years, his mother kept Amenhotep away from both the royal residences at Memphis and Thebes. He spent his childhood at the border city of Zarw, nursed by the wife of the queen's younger brother, General Aye. Later, Amenhotep was moved to Heliopolis, north of Cairo, to receive his education under the supervision of Anen, the priest of Ra, who was the elder brother of Queen Tiye.

                  Young Amenhotep first appeared at the capital city of Thebes when he reached the age of sixteen. There he met Nefertiti, his half-sister, daughter of Sitamun, and fell in love with her. Tiye, his mother, encouraged this relationship, realizing that his marriage to Nefertiti, the heiress, was the only way he could gain the right to follow his father on the throne.

                  Akhenaten Co-Regent

                  Following his marriage to Nefertiti, Amenhotep III decided to make Amenhotep his co-regent which upset the priests of Amun. The conflict between Amenhotep III and the priests had started sixteen years earlier as a result of his marriage to Tiye, an Israelite, daughter of Yuya and Tuya. During his reign, Nefertiti was active in supporting her husband, Amenhotep, and was more prominently seen at official occasions as well as on all monuments. However, the climate of hostility that surrounded Amenhotep at the time of his birth surfaced again after his appointment as CO-regent On joining his father on the throne Amenhotep became Amenhotep IV. The Amun priesthood opposed this appointment, and openly challenged Amenhotep III's decision.

                  When the priests of Amun objected to his appointment, the young CO-regent responded by building temples to his new God, Aten. He built three temples for Aten one at the back end of the Karnak complex, another at Luxor near the Nile bank, and the third at Memphis. Amenhotep lV snubbed the Amun priests by not inviting them to any of the festivities in the early part of his co-regency and, in his fourth year, when he celebrated his bed festival jubilee, he banned all deities but his own God from the occasion. Twelve months later he made a further break with tradition by changing his name to Akhenaten in honor of his new deity. To the resentful Egyptian establishment, Aten was seen as a challenger who would replace the powerful State god, Amun, not falling under his domination. In the tense climate that prevailed, Tiye arranged a compromise by persuading her son to leave Thebes and establish a new capital at Amarna in Middle Egypt, on the east bank of the Nile.

                  A New City for Aten

                  The situation calmed down following Akhenaten's departure, while Amenhotep III ruled alone in Thebes. For the site of his new city at Amarna, Akhenaten chose a land that belonged to no god or goddess. The building started in his Year 4 and ended in Year 8; however he and his family moved from Thebes to Amarna in Year 6. At that point of land, the cliffs of the high desert receded from the river, leaving a great semi-circle about eight miles long and three miles broad. Here Akhenaten built his new capital, Akhetaten, the Horizon of Aten, where he and his followers would be free to worship their God. Huge boundary stelae, marking the limits of the city and recording the story of its foundation, were carved in the surrounding cliffs. Akhetaten was a capital city possessed of both dignity and architectural harmony. Its main streets ran parallel to the Nile with the most important of them, the King's Way, connecting the city's most prominent buildings, including the King's House, where Akhenaten and his family had their private residence. To the south of the house was the king's private temple to Aten.

                  Military Coup

                  Following the death of his father, Amenhotep III, in Akhenaten's Year 12, he organized a great celebration at Amarna for foreign princes bearing tribute because of his assumption to sole rule. Akhenaten and Nefertiti appeared to receive the tribute of foreign missions coming from Syria, Palestine, Nubia, and the Mediterranean islands, who offered them their gifts. It was at that time the king decided to abolish the worship of all gods in Egypt?except Aten.

                  Akhenaten gave orders to his troops, instructing them to close all the temples, confiscate their estates, and sack the priests, leaving only Aten's temples throughout the country. Units were dispatched to excise the names of the ancient gods wherever they were found written or engraved, a course that can only have created mounting new opposition to his already rejected authority. This persecution, which entailed the closing of the temples, the confiscation of property, the dispatch of artisans who hacked out the names of the deities from inscriptions, the banishment of the clergy, and the excommunication of Amun's name, was supervised by the army. Each time a squad of workmen entered a temple or tomb to destroy the name of Amun, it was supported by a squad of soldiers who came to see that the royal decree was carried out without opposition.

                  The persecution of the old gods, however, proved to be hateful to the majority of Egyptians, including the members of the army. Ultimately, the harshness of the persecution had a certain reaction upon the soldiers who, themselves, had been raised in the old beliefs. After all, the officers and soldiers themselves believed in the same gods whose images the king ordered them to destroy; they worshipped in the very temples that they were ordered to close. A conflict arose between the king and his army. Horemheb, Pa-Ramses, and Seti planned a military coup against the king, and ordered their troops from the north and south to move toward Amarna. When the army and chariots came face to face at Amarna's borders, Aye advised the king to abdicate the throne to his son, Tutankhaten, in order to save the dynasty and avoid a wholesale defection and perhaps even a civil war. Akhenaten agreed to abdicate and left Amarna with Pa-Nehesy, the high priest of Aten, and a few of his followers, to live in exile in the area of Sarabit El-Khadem in southern Sinai. When Tutankhaten took the throne, he changed his name to Tutankhamun to appease the priesthood of the powerful State god Amun. He did not, however, renounce the Atenist religion of his father.

                  Back From Exile

                  The root of the name Moses is in the Egyptian word Mos which means "child." But this word also had a wider legal meaning?"the rightful son and heir." As it was punishable by death to mention Akhenaten's name after his banishment, a code name was established through which his followers could refer to him. Therefore they called him MOs, the son, to indicate that he was the legitimate son of Amenhotep III and the rightful heir to his father's throne. The ancient Egyptian language had no written vowels, although the vowels were pronounced. The written word meaning a child or son consisted of two consonants, m and s, It is therefore easy to see that the Hebrew word, Moses, was derived from the Egyptian, Mos. The final 's' of Moses derives from the Greek translation of the biblical name.

                  Following his abdication, Akhenaten/Moses lived with his followers in exile in southern Sinai for about twenty-five years, during the reigns of Tutankhamun, Aye, and Horemheb. Here, Akhenaten/Moses lived among the Shasu (Midianites) Bedouins with whom he formed an alliance. On hearing of Horemheb's death, Akhenaten/Moses decided to leave his exile in Sinai and come back to Egypt, in order to reclaim his throne.

                  In his rough Bedouin clothes, Akhenaten/Moses arrived with his allies at General Pa-Ramses' residence in the border city of Zarw, his birthplace, which had now been turned into a prison for his followers. Pa-Ramses, by now an old man, was making arrangements for his coronation and getting ready to become the first ruler of a new 19th Ramesside dynasty when he was informed of Akhenaten/Moses arrival.

                  Akhenaten/Moses challenged Pa-Ramses' right to the throne. The general, taken by surprise, decided to call a meeting of the wise men of Egypt to decide between them. At the gathering, Akhenaten/Moses produced his scepter of royal power, which he had taken with him to exile, and performed secret rituals that only the king could have had knowledge of. Once they saw the scepter of royal authority and Akhenaten/Moses' performance of the rituals, the wise men fell down in adoration in front of him and declared him to be the legitimate king of Egypt. Pa-Ramses, however, who was in control of the army, used his power to frustrate the verdict of the priests and elders and retained the right to rule by force?a coup d'etat.

                  General Pa-Ramses ascended to the Egyptain throne as Ramses I, the first Pharoah of the 19th dynasty. Left with no choice but to flee from Egypt with his followers?the Israelites and Egyptians who embraced the Atenist faith?Akhenaten/Moses began the Exodus toward the Sinai via the marshy area to the south of Zarw and north of Lake Temsah, as this watery route would hinder the pursuit of Egyptian chariots. After a time Akhenaten/Moses then marched north toward Gaza and attempted to storm the city with his Shasu allies. Seti I, son of Ramses, led an army against Akhenaten/Moses, the Israelites, and the Shasu, and defeated them, with great slaughter, at many locations on the Horus Road as well as central Sinai.

                  It is likely that Akhenaten/Moses was killed by Seti I himself in the course of these military operations.

                  Ahmed Osman

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                    unknownuser
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #26

                    Peace

                    History is just for purpose of knowledge only and it has no relation in our faith.
                    History is good for knowledge, but also can misslead our faith to Allah.

                    The example is the existence of Sunni and Shiah which happened not only because difference on Quran tafseer but also the confusion in history.

                    The example is the history of Nabi Muhammad's inheritance to Umar or to Ali, Battle of Karbala, and coup on Ustman Ibn Affan which all that stories is the main problems which always debated by Sunni and Shia.

                    So thats why the Quran never tell the Phrophet stories fully like in the Bible instead only pick some short quote from stories which we can get the lesson from that.

                    History is like Ahadith, this means they are not 100% valid and still have some contradicts.Allah only ordered us to believe what he sent down to us (The Quran) see 2191.

                    My post is just for reminder only, I will not take part in this discussion cause I'm not expert in history.My suggest to all is don't take the history too much

                    Salaam

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                      supportpeacenotwar
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #27

                      Peace ephraim7,

                      I haven't come across this. Thank you for sharing this resource with us.

                      My suggest to all is don't take the history too much

                      Salaam

                      Peace Earthdom,

                      Thanks for your post. Good advice. You're right - the Quran gives us "snippets" of the Prophet's stories and then the lesson/theme to learn from them. The Quran/guidance from Allah swt is our first priority. History is only optional and I believe a lot of caution needs to be taken with it - with any discipline there are issues/criticisms and popular scholarship doesn't have all or - dare I say it - many answers in my humble opinion.

                      EDIT Of course, history is contained in the Quran but I mean the discipline known as "History".

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                        Man_of_Faith
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #28

                        Peace,

                        The source of this information Ephraim laid forth is perhaps biased even if containing true elements. The narrator is maybe Akhenaten's opposition and the whole story a bit different. Nevertheless it was a good story and it may be elements of the Truth.

                        The narrative is supporting the existence of Moses more or less.

                        But I wonder where the Quranic killing of a man which Moses committed enters the picture in support of this story, as well as some other occurrences of Moses in Quran.

                        God bless you

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                          unknownuser
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #29

                          The narrator is maybe Akhenaten's opposition and the whole story a bit different. Nevertheless it was a good story and it may be elements of the Truth

                          Man of Faith, the word "maybe" is forbidden in any science, you may also realize it too.

                          The word maybe in any statement indicate if that statement is only an assumption

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                            Man_of_Faith
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #30

                            Peace,

                            What alternative should be used then when there is no certainty?

                            I use many synonymous phrases too, such as could be and perhaps. If there is no certainty why speak but hypothetically?

                            It was only an assumption if you did not see this.

                            On a side-note, I agree that 'maybe' might be a bit informal, but strong formality was not my intention.

                            God bless you

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                              supportpeacenotwar
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #31

                              Peace,

                              I use maybe and perhaps quite a bit. When talking about the Quran - it feels appropriate at times because I can't say some things for certain yet or ever. In terms of history and such things, remaning tentative seems the best course of action and words like "maybe" reflect that.

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                                unknownuser
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #32

                                On a side-note, I agree that 'maybe' might be a bit informal, but strong formality was not my intention.

                                I use maybe and perhaps quite a bit. When talking about the Quran - it feels appropriate at times because I can't say some things for certain yet or ever. In terms of history and such things, remaning tentative seems the best course of action and words like "maybe" reflect that.

                                Man of Faith and supportpeacenotwar looks like I must agree with both of you two. handshake

                                Yeah it's "just" forum online indeed, so lets don't take this chit chat too seriously like in the workplace instead let's us share and exchange our arguments together with any discussion, so we can cover each other's weakness.

                                It's nothing, but in university I was scolded by my lecturer 2-3 times because I say something doubtful such like "maybe" and "something" during class discussion.

                                Example is if lecturer ask "What is market?" then I will say like "something which made us meet the seller and buyer"

                                Maybe both of you two who I believe ever or still study in university may recognize it too, if doubtful arguments is forbidden in academical world.
                                peace

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                                  Man_of_Faith
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #33

                                  Peace Earthdom,

                                  In a formal academic writing or as in your case lecture you are not supposed to use words like 'maybe', and also because the word itself has a slightly informal connotation.

                                  God bless you

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                                    unknownuser
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #34

                                    Peace Man of Faith.

                                    Hehehe, thanks but please don't mention about this again, because it already happened in the past time

                                    God bless you handshake

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                                      ephraim7
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #35

                                      Much of Ahmed Osman writes is truly interesting, he says that he deals with history, and not religion.

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                                        supportpeacenotwar
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #36

                                        Peace everyone,

                                        For anyone interested I told an atheist friend of mine about this, and he gave me some resources. He was actually disagreed with me and so do his resources but one thing was that the passage he linked to includes the way that Akhenaten glorified Aten

                                        "How manifold are thy works!
                                        They are hidden from man's sight,
                                        O sole god, like whom there is no other.
                                        Thou hast made the earth according to thy desire"

                                        I still cannot say I know what was in Akhenaten's mind and whether he believed in one God completely, but that prayer has a lot of commonality with Quranic concepts.

                                        This may make me look like I'm a bit obsessed with this topic... I'm really not, it just came up in the last few days, and I've browsed a few different resources. In the end it doesn't matter (for our faith in Islam) whether he was monotheist or not, but its unusual what he did and worth mentioning I think, even if its not something thats researched.

                                        I would actually say that verse holds many Quranic concepts and the way Akhenaten depicted himself as a Pharaoh, in a very different manner than usual - could show even more that he didn't really view himself as a Divine. Views such as this may not be popular among academic circles, but I don't really mind that.

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                                          huruf
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                                          I think there is verymuch misunderstanding of ols religions because they have never been contemplated as holding any truth. But God, in the honoured Qur'an says that He has sent messengers to every people. Obviously that includes Egyptians and ll the other ancient peoples. We cannot now read the texts like they were read or written or understood by old egyptians, translations and way of understanding -us who are always shocked by what has been done to de Qur'an should be aware of that- are totally dependent on the capacity to grasp, conceive and understand what those original or downhanded text deal with and entail.

                                          Being divine, is a concept which may not entail that you are a god and nobody el is a God, it may simply mean that ALL and EVERYTHING, is out of divine rahma and ALL and EVERYTHING returns to divinity. Then some people are more conscious of this than others, some people are nto conscious at all, therefore they do not feel their "divinity" nor feel that that is where they come from and where they will return. The divinity of anybody could simply be that that person was ffully conscious of his or her destiny back to divinity. Egyptology comes from European minds. Mainstream European mind is very dissociated as to divinity and non-divinity, and they got what they were able to get with their preconceived ideas in the matter of religion, shaped a lot by grecoromn paganism, and their own limitation to understanding things spiritual, but other minds do not have to be so, but still we follow that concept of egyptian religion because that is the "establishment".

                                          I think originally Egyptian religion was revealed and had prophets. It is sure, because that is they way it has gone with every religion, historical islam included, that usage by people of the religion may have changed it, corrupted it to include straneous things, but basically, for sincere and commited searchers, i think it held enough depth and truth to guide. Akhnaton may have been simply an episode in the history of the true revealed religion of Anciente Egypt.

                                          Salaam

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