Does doubt count as Kufr?
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Correct
Doubt got nothing to do with it.
Kufr is the result of a 'bad character', a simple example
"You cheated during your exams, a guy sitting next to you report you for cheating, you know very well that you did cheat during your exam, but to save your skin you try many things to cover it, ranging from blatant refusal (lying) up to killing or torturing the witness who saw your action of cheating".Another example
"You're a politician and you took bribes, a guy report you for bribery/corruption, you know very well that you did took bribe, but to save your skin you try many things to cover / hides it, ranging from blatant refusal (lying) up to killing or torturing the witness who saw your action of taking bribe".Another example
"You're a priest and you enjoy power, wealth and respect because your society consider you as 'the ultimate agent' to a specific deity, a guy came forward and expose the lies of your myth, the ridiculousness of your deity thus the ridiculousness of your statement/dogma/teachings. You tried to debate him but the more you debate with him the more you see that he's right, and worse.. it seems your society started to think that this guy is right and you're wrong. To protect your own power, wealth and respect you tried to 'silence him' with myriad of methods, starting from 'attacking the character' (thus not the subject itself being debated), threatening him, arrest him, torturing him and eventually when all else fails, you shall try to kill him"That's the general characteristic of "The Kufrs", generally they're the same from times of Abraham up until now.
Salam / Peace
Er... the first two you stated, I don't see as the meaning of kufr I undersatand as when I said "cover the truth" I meant as in the truth from Allah, not cheating on a math test and then lying that you didn't cheat, granted in your example there the murderer is still guilty for murder. However as far as i've seen in the Quran, kufr refers to cover the truth from Allah such as the Quran. However your third point fits the definition of kufr.
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Er... the first two you stated, I don't see as the meaning of kufr I undersatand as when I said "cover the truth" I meant as in the truth from Allah,
There I don't agree with you, if it's "Covering the truth/Cover up" (Kufr) then it's "Covering the truth/Cover up".
If you compare the first example and the third example, the MOTIVE is pretty much the same.
To "Protect / Save self-interest"
That's why "The Kufr" is actually serving "Their own EGO".
In the universe, God has a mechanism to bring forward 'truth', one way or another...
Thus it will only a matter of time when 'truth' will prevails.. despite any action "The Kufr" shall take to cover it.The 'exam cheater' will lose (1st example) and the 'corrupt politician' (2nd example) will be exposed.. it just a matter of time.
Feel free to study human history for the abundant evidence.
This is inline with God's universal law of "Everyone shall get what they deserve"..
Salam / Peace
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There I don't agree with you, if it's "Covering the truth/Cover up" (Kufr) then it's "Covering the truth/Cover up".
If you compare the first example and the third example, the MOTIVE is pretty much the same.
To "Protect / Save self-interest"
That's why "The Kufr" is actually serving "Their own EGO".
In the universe, God has a mechanism to bring forward 'truth', one way or another...
Thus it will only a matter of time when 'truth' will prevails.. despite any action "The Kufr" shall take to cover it.The 'exam cheater' will lose (1st example) and the 'corrupt politician' (2nd example) will be exposed.. it just a matter of time.
Feel free to study human history for the abundant evidence.
This is inline with God's universal law of "Everyone shall get what they deserve"..
Salam / Peace
I actually agree with this. It's also inline with it being an active act for lack of better words rather than a passive thing also different from that which someone could do unknowingly/accidentally.
peace
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There I don't agree with you, if it's "Covering the truth/Cover up" (Kufr) then it's "Covering the truth/Cover up".
If you compare the first example and the third example, the MOTIVE is pretty much the same.
To "Protect / Save self-interest"
That's why "The Kufr" is actually serving "Their own EGO".
In the universe, God has a mechanism to bring forward 'truth', one way or another...
Thus it will only a matter of time when 'truth' will prevails.. despite any action "The Kufr" shall take to cover it.The 'exam cheater' will lose (1st example) and the 'corrupt politician' (2nd example) will be exposed.. it just a matter of time.
Feel free to study human history for the abundant evidence.
This is inline with God's universal law of "Everyone shall get what they deserve"..
Salam / Peace
By that logic a 12 year old kid who cheats on his math test and lies about it is a kaffir. I haven't seen a single example in the Quran as far as I know that points to this. All the examples point to covering the truth from Allah such as where they lie about Allah or try to kill off those who are trying to spread the message of Allah in order to cover the truth. All the examples of a kaffir in the Quran are those who are trying to cover the truth about Allah as far as i'm aware.
I mean seriously look at this logic. You are comparing a person who cheats and lies on a exam to one who is about to cover the truth about Allah and thus lead themselves and/or others to the fire by making them/themselves the message from Allah. That's like comparing to the sky and the ground in how different the ethics are here.
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peace red_eyes,
You can read asad's commentary on kufr online if you search for it
This meaning is easily grasped when we bear in mind that the root verb of the participial noun kafir (and of the infinitive noun kufr) is kafara, "he (or "it" covered (a thing)" thus, in Quran 5720 the tiller of the soil is called (without any pejorative implication) kafir, "one who covers", i.e., the sown seed with earth, just as the night is spoken of as having "covered" (kafara) the earth with darkness. In their abstract sense, both the verb and the nouns derived from it have a connotation of "concealing" something that exists or "denying" something that is true. Hence, in the usage of the Quran - with the exception of the one instance (Quran 5720) where this participial noun signifies a "tiller of the soil" - a kafir is one who denies (or "refuses to acknowledge" the truth" in the widest, spiritual sense of this latter term that is, irrespective of whether it relates to a cognition of the supreme truth - namely, the existence of God - or to a doctrine or ordinance enunciated in the divine writ, or to a self-evident moral proposition, or to an acknowledgment of, and therefore gratitude for, favors received.
Think it's about more than a label in a sense, it's a state of mind...something that you do actively which leads and/or keeps you there, like a chain of choices that might consecutively lead deeper into that state. One can always break out of it if they choose to, the further in you are...the harder it would be I think. Allah is everywhere, so are His signs...quranic morality with the consequences of our actions are hard coded in this world in a way. The reason why anarchy for example won't be the order of the day, it goes against law and order which humans need to thrive. We don't choose to self destruct, we choose survival. God's way leads to survival in the most beneficial way here and later. If we keep cheating for example, it would lead to a particular mindset which would be detrimental to our spiritual/otherwise growth. Can we truly say we are believers then, rejecting one part of the morality God deems to be righteous, even if we claim to believe in God? Belief in God which is inclusive of believing in what He deems righteous is a part of it. Not covering the truth in any way, shape or form would also be part of being righteous.
I get that one can make mistakes and so on, one can't really equate it to disbelieving in God as a whole. But if someone keeps making those mistakes, maybe even others without re-evaluating them as a bad idea and trying to change themselves, it would probably add up to a mindset in which it's easier to just keep going on a certain path that is further away from God. Can it then claim to believe in God as it has rejected righteousness in a way? Why would God solely ask for belief without righteous actions? Belief in God would thus encompass a particular mindset that does not reject righteousness inclusive of not denying or covering the truth which can be beyond someone simply saying I believe God exists and can't/won't back it up with their actions or majority of.
Doubt can be reluctance to commit due to various reasons. As long as one is sincere in working out their doubts however, they should reach a conclusion eventually. We usually understand doubt as being a state where we are genuinely puzzled or unclear. Not sure then, how one could equate it to a concept like kufr which is more of an active process of doing something after we know. A refusal to acknowledge or deny means we have been presented with the truth at some point. Being doubtful about said truth is understandable, it's what we do after we decide either way. Kufr would be on one end, belief on the other and doubt in the middle. Can we stay in doubt all our life? Maybe, but it would be different than being a kafir all their life Show us the straight path, The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.
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By that logic a 12 year old kid who cheats on his math test and lies about it is a kaffir. I haven't seen a single example in the Quran as far as I know that points to this. All the examples point to covering the truth from Allah such as where they lie about Allah or try to kill off those who are trying to spread the message of Allah in order to cover the truth. All the examples of a kaffir in the Quran are those who are trying to cover the truth about Allah as far as i'm aware.
I mean seriously look at this logic. You are comparing a person who cheats and lies on a exam to one who is about to cover the truth about Allah and thus lead themselves and/or others to the fire by making them/themselves the message from Allah. That's like comparing to the sky and the ground in how different the ethics are here.
Peace Red_Eyes,
I would also say that Kafir specifically refers to the message or direction from Allah swt. One example of a kafir is Iblis. He is called a kafir, and he knows the truth. He rejects it and turns to racism, hatred of a specific group - humanity - and favouring his own jinn. I view kafir as a term specifically used in the Quran for a group of people who choose denial of clear truth, evidence or the direction Allah swt provides. Just like there are further categories or terms we can use for behaviour such as hypocrite or fornicator. These terms I believe have a specific context and so we do need to apply them in the way that the Quran suggests. I would have to look into this in further detail if only for myself to confirm. Terms such as evildoer, wrongdoing etc may apply in cases where there is specific bad behaviour. But someone might not be a kafir because redemption is possible. So again the example of Iblis is that he does not choose to redeem himself. He wants to do want he knows is clearly counter to what Allah swt has stated. The same with Surah Kafiroon in terms of how we address people who are clearly dead set against Allah's Sunnah. This is a very interesting topic, btw.
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Peace Savage_Carrot,
The problem is that you guys have really widened the meaning of kufr when the Quran has only talked about it when it comes down to covering the truth about Allah as far as I know
"Who then is more wicked than one who lies about God, and denies the truth when it comes to him? Is there not in Hell an abode for the rejecters? (3932)
"His friend said to him while discussing with him "Have you disbelieved in the One who created you from dirt, then from a seed, then He evolved you into a man?" (1837)
"We did not create the heavens and the Earth, and everything between them except with truth, and for an appointed time. And those who disbelieve turn away from what they are being warned with." (463)
"Rejecters indeed are those who have said "God is the Messiah the son of Mary." Say "Who has any power against God if He had wanted to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother, and all who are on Earth!" And to God is the sovereignty of heavens and Earth and all that is in-between; He creates what He pleases. God is capable of all things." (517)
"Those to whom We have given the Scripture, they recite it as it truthfully deserves to be recited; they believe in it. As for those who disbelieve in it, they are the losers." (2121)
"And they serve besides God what does not benefit them nor harm them. And the rejecter is always set-against his Lord." (2555)
"And from among the people of the Scripture are those whom if you entrust him with a large amount he gives it back to you, and there are those whom if you entrust with one gold coin he will not return it to you unless you are standing over him. That is because they said "We have no obligation towards the Gentiles." They say about God lies while knowing." (375)
"And it has been sent down to you in the Scripture, that if you hear God's revelations being rejected and ridiculed in, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different subject; if not, then you are like them. God will gather the hypocrites and the disbelievers in Hell all together." (4140)
"And from amongst them is a group that twist their tongues with the Scripture so that you may think it is from the Scripture, while it is not from the Scripture, and they say it is from God while it is not from God, and they say about God lies while they know." (37
"And from the camels two, and from the cattle two. Say "Is it the two males that He forbade or the two females, or what the womb of the two females bore? Or were you witnesses when God ordered you with this?" Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God to misguide the people without knowledge. God does not guide the wicked people." (6144)
"Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God, or denies His revelations? These will receive their recompense from the record; so that when Our messengers come to terminate their lives, they will say "Where are those whom you used to call on besides God?" they said "They have abandoned us!" and they bore witness upon themselves that they were rejecters." (737)
"Who then is more wicked than one who lies about God, and denies the truth when it comes to him? Is there not in Hell an abode for the rejecters?" (3932)
From what I understand these verses all point to how kufr refers to covering the truth about Allah. Some of these examples include false religious teaching that made up rules and say it was from Allah, disbelieving in Allah, change the meaning of verses, telling lies about Allah. I have not seen an example as far as i've seen that refers to anything that isn't related to covering the truth about Allah. I haven't seen any evidence in the Quran as far as i've seen that points to Kufr having a wider meaning.
Someone lying that they didn't cheat in a math test while they did? I don't see them referring to Allah at all here, let alone any sort of religious reference whatsoever. They are lying about their actions instead without any reference to Allah. The Quran as far as i've seen refers to kufr in regards to covering the truth about Allah.
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Peace,
It is true that most, if not all, of the uses of kufr in Quran refers to those who reject the Truth due to their pride and arrogance. If you ask me, it can be both knowingly and unknowingly. These people may not know they are astray. They follow man-made conjecture and they often invent new ideas which they make into law despite the fact God's system is already in place.
They can be connected with hypocrisy and believing you are guided while they are not. If you ask any Sunni muslim they will claim they are guided and they will become aggressive why you asked. That they disobey God on an endless range of points is something they would be completely denying. They also humiliate God saying that His Book is incomplete and needing additional man-made hadith to complement it. It is as if God forgot to add details, but these details never existed because is was all conjecture. The intelligent will see they only humiliated themselves and God curses them for their blasphemies.
I am sure there are lots of hypocrites from all branches of religion and even among the Quran alone followers. Many Quran alone followers seem to often abrogate practices from Quran as if they never existed or contained different elements or that Muhammad (or whatever his true name was) did not exist. The criticism from Sunni directions is not always unfounded, even if they throw stones in glass houses. Even a fool can come up with useful remarks. Of course there are erroneous interpretations of the Quran, but we have to be careful with what discoveries we make and change in the name of God.
Quran talks about believing you are guided while you are not being a punishment from God, or even a curse. Only God can remove this curse on someone, be it through a blessed man, but God is always the doer.
We cause tbe stray-walking ourselves, by following our own wishful thinking and not focusing hard on seeking God's Nearness and Guidance. It will become treat for our minds and senses and the invented religion will become comfortable and due to our social nature we will base a community of stray beings who only worsens the disease as when you have support for your beliefs and then you will work even harder to delude yourself if you are not guided.
The word kafir is emotionally loaded and I have received hate mails because I have used it on our forum to compare traditional muslims by its English definition 'to cover the Truth'. It is a word that has been misused since the advent of Quran. Without using the word previously in my post, I defined a kafir above. They can be knowing what they do, but they are most often unaware of what they do and tbey stubbornness is clouding their judgment so they cannot see the Truth even when it is in front of their eyes. The Quran goes on a very basic level to explain how things are, but the Faith in external sources runs so deep the traditional understanding is the obvious explanation for it no matter how much it contradicts the entire Message of Quran.
God bless you
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Peace Savage_Carrot,
The problem is that you guys have really widened the meaning of kufr when the Quran has only talked about it when it comes down to covering the truth about Allah as far as I know
"Who then is more wicked than one who lies about God, and denies the truth when it comes to him? Is there not in Hell an abode for the rejecters? (3932)
"His friend said to him while discussing with him "Have you disbelieved in the One who created you from dirt, then from a seed, then He evolved you into a man?" (1837)
"We did not create the heavens and the Earth, and everything between them except with truth, and for an appointed time. And those who disbelieve turn away from what they are being warned with." (463)
"Rejecters indeed are those who have said "God is the Messiah the son of Mary." Say "Who has any power against God if He had wanted to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother, and all who are on Earth!" And to God is the sovereignty of heavens and Earth and all that is in-between; He creates what He pleases. God is capable of all things." (517)
"Those to whom We have given the Scripture, they recite it as it truthfully deserves to be recited; they believe in it. As for those who disbelieve in it, they are the losers." (2121)
"And they serve besides God what does not benefit them nor harm them. And the rejecter is always set-against his Lord." (2555)
"And from among the people of the Scripture are those whom if you entrust him with a large amount he gives it back to you, and there are those whom if you entrust with one gold coin he will not return it to you unless you are standing over him. That is because they said "We have no obligation towards the Gentiles." They say about God lies while knowing." (375)
"And it has been sent down to you in the Scripture, that if you hear God's revelations being rejected and ridiculed in, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different subject; if not, then you are like them. God will gather the hypocrites and the disbelievers in Hell all together." (4140)
"And from amongst them is a group that twist their tongues with the Scripture so that you may think it is from the Scripture, while it is not from the Scripture, and they say it is from God while it is not from God, and they say about God lies while they know." (37
"And from the camels two, and from the cattle two. Say "Is it the two males that He forbade or the two females, or what the womb of the two females bore? Or were you witnesses when God ordered you with this?" Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God to misguide the people without knowledge. God does not guide the wicked people." (6144)
"Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God, or denies His revelations? These will receive their recompense from the record; so that when Our messengers come to terminate their lives, they will say "Where are those whom you used to call on besides God?" they said "They have abandoned us!" and they bore witness upon themselves that they were rejecters." (737)
"Who then is more wicked than one who lies about God, and denies the truth when it comes to him? Is there not in Hell an abode for the rejecters?" (3932)
A kafir rejects Allah, we know this. I'm saying that in doing so he is rejecting Allah's way as acceptance is the first step in a chain to belief which would be an active form of understanding as well as following. It is a mindset that is formed by indulging in kufr. It is an active choice of rejecting/denying as opposed to accepting.
Would covering the truth about Allah not comprise of lying about something like it's wrong to give false witness if the person knows it is? Where would he know it is wrong from? Only scripture? If we take 2121, quranic morality is inclusive which is not something that we can know only if we read the quran for example. It coincides with morality outside the quran as well, as well it should because God isn't limited to His words...there are signs everywhere for everyone in whichever way God deems best. 737, lies about God or signs are limited to scripture? No, because 4153. If there is no scripture, the signs will still be there, God will still be there and so on.
From what I understand these verses all point to how kufr refers to covering the truth about Allah. Some of these examples include false religious teaching that made up rules and say it was from Allah, disbelieving in Allah, change the meaning of verses, telling lies about Allah. I have not seen an example as far as i've seen that refers to anything that isn't related to covering the truth about Allah. I haven't seen any evidence in the Quran as far as i've seen that points to Kufr having a wider meaning.
As I said, it would depend on why you're limiting it's application. I don't see reasons to limit the application, as it's clear to me that kufr in the quran is a much wider concept as it encompasses God and His laws which are pretty much everywhere.Someone lying that they didn't cheat in a math test while they did? I don't see them referring to Allah at all here, let alone any sort of religious reference whatsoever. They are lying about their actions instead without any reference to Allah. The Quran as far as i've seen refers to kufr in regards to covering the truth about Allah.
I understand, and I maintain that indulging in kufr is when you reject/deny any of God's signs when they come to you. These cannot be limited to scripture as explained. I find that this view also helps me gain a better understanding of the world in all its tenses without a false dichotomy of scripture vs. everything else. An exercise I often do is to remove all references to what may be considered 'religious' morality and go through how a certain scenario may play out and what would be the most efficient ways of optimization. In all cases I've gone through, quranic morality wins signifying that it is hard coded as the method to use to achieve not just any success, but beneficial lasting success of pretty much any enterprise. Ibrahim is a good example.peace
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Peace,
To sum it up (from the approach that kafir applies in a specific context) kafir is used as a particular term in the Quranic recitation and scripture. This is the origin of the term. Other terms are used for different groups of people or to further describe people. In the end, I guess I wonder if applying the term kafir more widely has any benefits, given what the Quran says about kafir - including in relation to hellfire. There are other terms for people who do wrong. Simply wrong doing could be an applicable term. It may be they still believe in Allah's Sunnah but they have trangressed and have to sort things out. Do they reject all of Allah's signs or are they following a desire and they have committed a mistake - that they can easily repent and make amends from because they still want to follow the direction of Allah ultimately? Of course, an important part of repentance is making amends. In such situations, that's between themselves and Allah swt.
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To be honest, it's the meaning of Kafir according Quranic terminology.
If you look in the Quran again, the meaning of kufr is the people who set partner beside Allah (shirk), believe on previous Kitab (Kafir Alkitab), or just claim if themself believer but actually not (munafiqun)
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The problem is that you guys have really widened the meaning of kufr when the Quran has only talked about it when it comes down to covering the truth about Allah as far as I know
Salaam,
I see this thread turned into kufr discussion.. )
I think you people are mixing two different words. Please note that there is a difference between KaFaRa and KaFFaRa. i.e., and
In there are two FA unlike where only one FA is used. To understand it better... please take a look at the following727
727 And they had thought, as you thought, that Allah would never send anyone.One more thing has to be understood that from the three letters root, if two last letters of root are same, then writing in both ways gives the same meaning as in 727. But if the middle letter of the root is double as in then its meaning will be different than the same rooted word without the middle letter being double as in .
So, the difference between and is as follows, inshaAllah
234
234 And when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.3193
3193 Our Lord, indeed we have heard a caller calling to faith, 'Believe in your Lord,' and we have believed. Our Lord, so forgive us our sins and conceal from us our misdeeds and cause us to die with the righteous.
Please note 4734 also as this aayat used both the words
4734
4734 Indeed, those who KaFaRoo and averted from the path of Allah and then died while they were KuFFaaRun - never will Allah forgive them.As per the definitions we saw above in 234 and 3193 for and , 4734 can be understood as
Those who refused and been arrogant when the aayaat/orders of Allah came to them, and they prevent others from the path of Allah and then they died while they were concealing from others what was shown to them from the aayaat of Allah, so Allah will never forgive them.
This is how I understand. Please check all the other instances of these two words before accepting it.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Thank you mmkhan, very nicely explained. I wonder if bro Mazhar has any thoughts on the grammar? runs
peace
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Peace,
It is prudent to understand that a person who is 'kafir' towards Allah will ALWAYS have the trait of concealing everything they do.
Do you guys live on the same Earth that I do? I witness these people going about their day. Yes, the very same politician who lies and covers his lies, that is the same politician who gives the lie to the Supreme.
So I treat with vehement suspicion anyone that wishes to compartmentalise "kafir" to rejecting "Allah".
Let us consider what Allah is.
Allah, IS the Light of the heavens and Earth
Allah, is Al-Haqq, THE truth
Allah, is ONE
One Truth, which is the Light of the heavens and Earth, this is Allah.
This is not metaphorical in any way shape or form. This is ALLAH's nature, in Allah's words. This is indisputably Allah.
In one part of the Earth a square cannot have 3 sides with another part a square having 4. This is NOT Allah. There is nothing wholesome here about this practice. It is the very practice that will lead you to Hell, which will lead you to rejecting the Supreme.
When you reject Allah, you intrinsically reject all sanity and peace. THEN the resultant fear and ego-absorption is what causes politicians, cheaters, etc to try to cloak their misdeeds. But the kufr towards Allah, and the kufr regarding their misdeeds, they are THE SAME KUFR.
This is because Allah is one All-encompassing Truth, of which is contained every happenstance in a Clear Record.
ALL lies about anything in the universe, are a LIE ABOUT ALLAH.
This is because all state of affairs, all happenings in the universe, are made in accordance with Supreme Justice. That a square has four sides is Supreme Justice, that a politician cheated on his wife or embezzled money from the state, is Supreme Justice. Every statement about ANYTHING in the universe is a statement of the nature of ALLAH, the ALL-LAW
To reject this understanding allows you to label X or Y party as "kafirs". Not "rejectors", but "kafirs". This is the very same proper noun "let's not translate this word because it's convenient for us and we make money out of it" logical malicy that has created Sunni-ISM and Wahab-ISM and so on, that has spread corruption through the Earth and gives rise to the idea in the minds of the clear wrongdoers that those who follow the quran are "kafir".
By this point, the word "kafir" has lost all its meaning.
Now let us call a spade a spade. Kafir means kafir, to reject, conceal, deny. The clear truth.
What is the clear truth? What is Al-Haqq?
2949 - Nay! these are clear communications in the breasts of those who are granted knowledge; and none deny Our communications except the unjust.
You must understand that it is a man's deeds which decide the clarity of his sight. If a man murders, cheats, lies, steals, then he will be divorced from God naturally, it will cloud his sight and give him thoughts and excuses, endless red herrings he runs into in the search for Truth. OK sure zina is prohibited, but I cannot agree with that because how then shall I cover up my misdeeds. Of course there could be no Hell, because I hate Hell and I would rightfully earn it if it existed because I have done so much wrong, etc, etc, etc.
In the meditative traditions of things like Zen we eschew intrinsically all evil works, and we hold fast to the firm rope of Allah Al-Haqq and vow to deliver in charity and purify ourselves.
Our evil works are like knots on our minds, which charity and selfless action unknots. But when these knots are here, a man cannot reach the higher heights of meditation.
And nothing signifies the purity of a mind but how deep it can enter meditation, because meditation is ONE TO ONE communion with Allah, the Truth. The wrongdoers cannot meditate. To meditate is to be at rest, and God does not permit rest or peace for the wrongdoers. And this is a physically observable correlate. Your very neurons will rewire. Do not think for a second that I am saying the wrongdoers cannot think a certain thought. I am saying something entirely scientifically verifiable - that the wrongdoers will never be able to enter beyond a certain state of relaxation, of cessation of the heartbeat and breath (RUH). Why, because God has placed locks on their hearts and ears, from understanding those clear ayateen which lead to His remembrance and ONLY in the remembrance of God, shall hearts find rest.
To refuse the interconnectivity of one's deeds and faith, is to be unjust to oneself. And ironically I percieve this act to be tremendously insincere and I suspect hidden intentions, may peace be upon all parties herein. Iman/faith/tendency to accept Truth is the very same as propensity to do good works, there can be no separation in this, there can be no perverting the Sunnatullah and any who so do so, I shall treat with severe suspicion for I know this is not the Way, there can be no peace in creating this rift.
People, I warn you here and now of a clear malice I percieve. Do not be fooled after you have knowledge.
peace
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Also another source of chaos/confusion/misunderstanding
NOBODY is a "kafir" or a "muslim" or a "mumin" in this life. We may tend towards any.
ONLY when we are judged, has this been proven. And this happens after you die.
Until then, we are fluidly traversing between classes. In one day, I might do lots of good and also lots of bad. When I am doing good, I am in a state of islam and I am being a muslim. When I am doing evil, I am far from peace or surrender and I am being a kafir. Plain and simple.
There are no fixed labels. Yes, it is possible to be absolutely evil or absolutely good in this life. Yes, many are certain of their lord and many are also falsely certain of themselves. Yet still, calling someone a "kaffir" arbitrarily is useless and meaningless. To say "I am a Muslim" is as meaningless as saying "I am a millionaire". Belief is not going to put money into your bank account and indeed, surrender to Supreme is beyond all monetary wealth, so how could THAT be treated with such preposterity?
When you point at someone and say "liar", consider...
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Are you saying "this person is a LIAR! burn them in hell forever for the evil crime of LYING! their entire nature of existence is to lie, hang them NOW! cut their throat!" (shock, horror, gasps from 300,000 person strong audience which for some reason is watching this mortal dramatic heart-wrenching emotionally gripping oscar-winning accusation)
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Or are you saying... "hey dumbass give me my sweet back I know you have it" (two kids talking to each other)
See the difference? "Liar" can be a name, or a state. It is never used as a name in the quran to my knowledge, only a state or a label and likewise with the term "muslim", even considering the "he has named you Muslims" verse which says no such thing when you look deeper and understand the sheer absurdity of the term "Muslim terrorist".
peace
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Wow, there are so many things to unpack in those last two posts, the point about Iblis and his arrogance - interconnectivity of faith and deeds as clear as the day itself - that lead to him rejecting and determining to cover the truth that Allah swt provides. So much to say but so little time. Too bad.
There's also the point that a lot of what can be said is what one needs to appreciate oneself from the discussion earlier on here. You can't constantly point out things to people, I guess is the main thing here.
I wanted to give a "People", I warn you to be cautious in your application of the Quran for in the Quran there is a test for the believers... but it felt really strange. /
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NOBODY is a "kafir" or a "muslim" or a "mumin" in this life. We may tend towards any.
ONLY when we are judged, has this been proven. And this happens after you die.
Until then, we are fluidly traversing between classes. In one day, I might do lots of good and also lots of bad. When I am doing good, I am in a state of islam and I am being a muslim. When I am doing evil, I am far from peace or surrender and I am being a kafir. Plain and simple.
Well put. The reluctance and/or eagerness to call it for what it is because we believe them to be loaded terms.peace
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Peace,
I do not agree with the last two posts before supportpeacenotwar's post.
You can be something negative by label, but it does not mean one cannot change his ways. We are not judged before we die.
God bless you
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Peace Savage_Carrot,
First off it seems you are fixiated on the idea that kufr has a wider definition simply because of how you take 4153.
Before I get to 4153, I have to state a few things. Kufr throughout the Quran has as i've stated only been within that limited definition as far as i've seen. You claim it has a wider definition yet I have yet to see a single example showing that. In fact the very fact that the defintion is being soo widened reminds me of some who try to widen the meaning of shirk to the point where they say that simply doing any sort of sin is shirk because you've associated "yourself" to God which the Quran has shown that a sin and shirk are separate from each other. This is also the case with Kufr in that it is separate from a lie that isn't reference Allah and that i've seen no reference to it and that all references point to it being about covering the truth about Allah.
4153 as i've stated seems to be your reason that because the signs of God are everything, that any sort of lie that doesn't even talk about God whether a white lie or a really bad one such as false witness that doesn't reference God at all is kufr.
I would like you to look at 1759
"And what stopped Us from sending the signs except that the previous people disbelieved in them. And We sent to Thamud the camel with foresight, but they did her wrong. And We do not send the signs except to make them fearful." (1759)According to this the signs of Allah STOPPED being sent eventually. The signs here refer to miracles of Allah with an example being the camel sent to Thamud. The people of Thamud killed that camel. That is how they covered the truth about Allah as it was a clear sign for them.
So what does that mean in relation to 4153? The miracles which eventually stopped as 1759 states and is that type which I believe kufr refers to when speaking about "signs". The "signs" mentioned in 4153 are in my opinion a reference to creation by Allah, in that the signs in the "horizons" and "with themselves" refers to our creation, the Earth, the sky, space, the universe and all of creation. This basically meaning that the proof to the existence and the truth of Allah is that there had to have been a creator to all of this which philosophically is an argument that everything was designed, created, given a role, etc... Edip's and Asad's commentary also states
"Falsifiable and verifiable physical evidence and sound logical inferences provide scientific or objective confirmation that the Quran is indeed the word of God. Our personal experiences parallel those objective facts and remove all doubts." (Edip)
"I.e., through a progressive deepening and widening of their insight into the wonders of the universe as well as through a deeper understanding of man's own psyche - all of which points to the existence of a conscious Creator. " (Asad)
Science has helped understand how true the Quran is with the creation of the universe. While the fact that everything exists is a sign of God, simply telling a lie doesn't equate to kufr. It would be kufr if one said that God wasn't the creator. Thus these are the signs of God and they eventually stopped as that verse said earlier. So therefore his signs I believe include miracles (which includes creation and other clear miracles that came to help people understand the truth such as the camel), and scripture (I don't think i'm missing anything else) and therefore if you cover any of those then one has committed kufr. Lying about a math test usually shouldn't involve any of these. So 4153 is in my opinion, about the creation of all things. While yes all things are signs of God, what we do is what we do as we got freewill. Thus us covering up what we did isn't covering up a sign of God as it was us who did that thing and that we aren't covering up something God did such as creation, scripture and His other miracles.
You may go onto say otherwise but in the end, the Quran DOES NOT as far as I know refer to kufr as anything beyond covering the truth about Allah. I have not seen any real evidence to widen it so much.