Does doubt count as Kufr?
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The problem is that you guys have really widened the meaning of kufr when the Quran has only talked about it when it comes down to covering the truth about Allah as far as I know
Salaam,
I see this thread turned into kufr discussion.. )
I think you people are mixing two different words. Please note that there is a difference between KaFaRa and KaFFaRa. i.e., and
In there are two FA unlike where only one FA is used. To understand it better... please take a look at the following727
727 And they had thought, as you thought, that Allah would never send anyone.One more thing has to be understood that from the three letters root, if two last letters of root are same, then writing in both ways gives the same meaning as in 727. But if the middle letter of the root is double as in then its meaning will be different than the same rooted word without the middle letter being double as in .
So, the difference between and is as follows, inshaAllah
234
234 And when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.3193
3193 Our Lord, indeed we have heard a caller calling to faith, 'Believe in your Lord,' and we have believed. Our Lord, so forgive us our sins and conceal from us our misdeeds and cause us to die with the righteous.
Please note 4734 also as this aayat used both the words
4734
4734 Indeed, those who KaFaRoo and averted from the path of Allah and then died while they were KuFFaaRun - never will Allah forgive them.As per the definitions we saw above in 234 and 3193 for and , 4734 can be understood as
Those who refused and been arrogant when the aayaat/orders of Allah came to them, and they prevent others from the path of Allah and then they died while they were concealing from others what was shown to them from the aayaat of Allah, so Allah will never forgive them.
This is how I understand. Please check all the other instances of these two words before accepting it.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Thank you mmkhan, very nicely explained. I wonder if bro Mazhar has any thoughts on the grammar? runs
peace
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Peace,
It is prudent to understand that a person who is 'kafir' towards Allah will ALWAYS have the trait of concealing everything they do.
Do you guys live on the same Earth that I do? I witness these people going about their day. Yes, the very same politician who lies and covers his lies, that is the same politician who gives the lie to the Supreme.
So I treat with vehement suspicion anyone that wishes to compartmentalise "kafir" to rejecting "Allah".
Let us consider what Allah is.
Allah, IS the Light of the heavens and Earth
Allah, is Al-Haqq, THE truth
Allah, is ONE
One Truth, which is the Light of the heavens and Earth, this is Allah.
This is not metaphorical in any way shape or form. This is ALLAH's nature, in Allah's words. This is indisputably Allah.
In one part of the Earth a square cannot have 3 sides with another part a square having 4. This is NOT Allah. There is nothing wholesome here about this practice. It is the very practice that will lead you to Hell, which will lead you to rejecting the Supreme.
When you reject Allah, you intrinsically reject all sanity and peace. THEN the resultant fear and ego-absorption is what causes politicians, cheaters, etc to try to cloak their misdeeds. But the kufr towards Allah, and the kufr regarding their misdeeds, they are THE SAME KUFR.
This is because Allah is one All-encompassing Truth, of which is contained every happenstance in a Clear Record.
ALL lies about anything in the universe, are a LIE ABOUT ALLAH.
This is because all state of affairs, all happenings in the universe, are made in accordance with Supreme Justice. That a square has four sides is Supreme Justice, that a politician cheated on his wife or embezzled money from the state, is Supreme Justice. Every statement about ANYTHING in the universe is a statement of the nature of ALLAH, the ALL-LAW
To reject this understanding allows you to label X or Y party as "kafirs". Not "rejectors", but "kafirs". This is the very same proper noun "let's not translate this word because it's convenient for us and we make money out of it" logical malicy that has created Sunni-ISM and Wahab-ISM and so on, that has spread corruption through the Earth and gives rise to the idea in the minds of the clear wrongdoers that those who follow the quran are "kafir".
By this point, the word "kafir" has lost all its meaning.
Now let us call a spade a spade. Kafir means kafir, to reject, conceal, deny. The clear truth.
What is the clear truth? What is Al-Haqq?
2949 - Nay! these are clear communications in the breasts of those who are granted knowledge; and none deny Our communications except the unjust.
You must understand that it is a man's deeds which decide the clarity of his sight. If a man murders, cheats, lies, steals, then he will be divorced from God naturally, it will cloud his sight and give him thoughts and excuses, endless red herrings he runs into in the search for Truth. OK sure zina is prohibited, but I cannot agree with that because how then shall I cover up my misdeeds. Of course there could be no Hell, because I hate Hell and I would rightfully earn it if it existed because I have done so much wrong, etc, etc, etc.
In the meditative traditions of things like Zen we eschew intrinsically all evil works, and we hold fast to the firm rope of Allah Al-Haqq and vow to deliver in charity and purify ourselves.
Our evil works are like knots on our minds, which charity and selfless action unknots. But when these knots are here, a man cannot reach the higher heights of meditation.
And nothing signifies the purity of a mind but how deep it can enter meditation, because meditation is ONE TO ONE communion with Allah, the Truth. The wrongdoers cannot meditate. To meditate is to be at rest, and God does not permit rest or peace for the wrongdoers. And this is a physically observable correlate. Your very neurons will rewire. Do not think for a second that I am saying the wrongdoers cannot think a certain thought. I am saying something entirely scientifically verifiable - that the wrongdoers will never be able to enter beyond a certain state of relaxation, of cessation of the heartbeat and breath (RUH). Why, because God has placed locks on their hearts and ears, from understanding those clear ayateen which lead to His remembrance and ONLY in the remembrance of God, shall hearts find rest.
To refuse the interconnectivity of one's deeds and faith, is to be unjust to oneself. And ironically I percieve this act to be tremendously insincere and I suspect hidden intentions, may peace be upon all parties herein. Iman/faith/tendency to accept Truth is the very same as propensity to do good works, there can be no separation in this, there can be no perverting the Sunnatullah and any who so do so, I shall treat with severe suspicion for I know this is not the Way, there can be no peace in creating this rift.
People, I warn you here and now of a clear malice I percieve. Do not be fooled after you have knowledge.
peace
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Also another source of chaos/confusion/misunderstanding
NOBODY is a "kafir" or a "muslim" or a "mumin" in this life. We may tend towards any.
ONLY when we are judged, has this been proven. And this happens after you die.
Until then, we are fluidly traversing between classes. In one day, I might do lots of good and also lots of bad. When I am doing good, I am in a state of islam and I am being a muslim. When I am doing evil, I am far from peace or surrender and I am being a kafir. Plain and simple.
There are no fixed labels. Yes, it is possible to be absolutely evil or absolutely good in this life. Yes, many are certain of their lord and many are also falsely certain of themselves. Yet still, calling someone a "kaffir" arbitrarily is useless and meaningless. To say "I am a Muslim" is as meaningless as saying "I am a millionaire". Belief is not going to put money into your bank account and indeed, surrender to Supreme is beyond all monetary wealth, so how could THAT be treated with such preposterity?
When you point at someone and say "liar", consider...
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Are you saying "this person is a LIAR! burn them in hell forever for the evil crime of LYING! their entire nature of existence is to lie, hang them NOW! cut their throat!" (shock, horror, gasps from 300,000 person strong audience which for some reason is watching this mortal dramatic heart-wrenching emotionally gripping oscar-winning accusation)
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Or are you saying... "hey dumbass give me my sweet back I know you have it" (two kids talking to each other)
See the difference? "Liar" can be a name, or a state. It is never used as a name in the quran to my knowledge, only a state or a label and likewise with the term "muslim", even considering the "he has named you Muslims" verse which says no such thing when you look deeper and understand the sheer absurdity of the term "Muslim terrorist".
peace
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Wow, there are so many things to unpack in those last two posts, the point about Iblis and his arrogance - interconnectivity of faith and deeds as clear as the day itself - that lead to him rejecting and determining to cover the truth that Allah swt provides. So much to say but so little time. Too bad.
There's also the point that a lot of what can be said is what one needs to appreciate oneself from the discussion earlier on here. You can't constantly point out things to people, I guess is the main thing here.
I wanted to give a "People", I warn you to be cautious in your application of the Quran for in the Quran there is a test for the believers... but it felt really strange. /
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NOBODY is a "kafir" or a "muslim" or a "mumin" in this life. We may tend towards any.
ONLY when we are judged, has this been proven. And this happens after you die.
Until then, we are fluidly traversing between classes. In one day, I might do lots of good and also lots of bad. When I am doing good, I am in a state of islam and I am being a muslim. When I am doing evil, I am far from peace or surrender and I am being a kafir. Plain and simple.
Well put. The reluctance and/or eagerness to call it for what it is because we believe them to be loaded terms.peace
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Peace,
I do not agree with the last two posts before supportpeacenotwar's post.
You can be something negative by label, but it does not mean one cannot change his ways. We are not judged before we die.
God bless you
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Peace Savage_Carrot,
First off it seems you are fixiated on the idea that kufr has a wider definition simply because of how you take 4153.
Before I get to 4153, I have to state a few things. Kufr throughout the Quran has as i've stated only been within that limited definition as far as i've seen. You claim it has a wider definition yet I have yet to see a single example showing that. In fact the very fact that the defintion is being soo widened reminds me of some who try to widen the meaning of shirk to the point where they say that simply doing any sort of sin is shirk because you've associated "yourself" to God which the Quran has shown that a sin and shirk are separate from each other. This is also the case with Kufr in that it is separate from a lie that isn't reference Allah and that i've seen no reference to it and that all references point to it being about covering the truth about Allah.
4153 as i've stated seems to be your reason that because the signs of God are everything, that any sort of lie that doesn't even talk about God whether a white lie or a really bad one such as false witness that doesn't reference God at all is kufr.
I would like you to look at 1759
"And what stopped Us from sending the signs except that the previous people disbelieved in them. And We sent to Thamud the camel with foresight, but they did her wrong. And We do not send the signs except to make them fearful." (1759)According to this the signs of Allah STOPPED being sent eventually. The signs here refer to miracles of Allah with an example being the camel sent to Thamud. The people of Thamud killed that camel. That is how they covered the truth about Allah as it was a clear sign for them.
So what does that mean in relation to 4153? The miracles which eventually stopped as 1759 states and is that type which I believe kufr refers to when speaking about "signs". The "signs" mentioned in 4153 are in my opinion a reference to creation by Allah, in that the signs in the "horizons" and "with themselves" refers to our creation, the Earth, the sky, space, the universe and all of creation. This basically meaning that the proof to the existence and the truth of Allah is that there had to have been a creator to all of this which philosophically is an argument that everything was designed, created, given a role, etc... Edip's and Asad's commentary also states
"Falsifiable and verifiable physical evidence and sound logical inferences provide scientific or objective confirmation that the Quran is indeed the word of God. Our personal experiences parallel those objective facts and remove all doubts." (Edip)
"I.e., through a progressive deepening and widening of their insight into the wonders of the universe as well as through a deeper understanding of man's own psyche - all of which points to the existence of a conscious Creator. " (Asad)
Science has helped understand how true the Quran is with the creation of the universe. While the fact that everything exists is a sign of God, simply telling a lie doesn't equate to kufr. It would be kufr if one said that God wasn't the creator. Thus these are the signs of God and they eventually stopped as that verse said earlier. So therefore his signs I believe include miracles (which includes creation and other clear miracles that came to help people understand the truth such as the camel), and scripture (I don't think i'm missing anything else) and therefore if you cover any of those then one has committed kufr. Lying about a math test usually shouldn't involve any of these. So 4153 is in my opinion, about the creation of all things. While yes all things are signs of God, what we do is what we do as we got freewill. Thus us covering up what we did isn't covering up a sign of God as it was us who did that thing and that we aren't covering up something God did such as creation, scripture and His other miracles.
You may go onto say otherwise but in the end, the Quran DOES NOT as far as I know refer to kufr as anything beyond covering the truth about Allah. I have not seen any real evidence to widen it so much.
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You may go onto say otherwise but in the end, the Quran DOES NOT as far as I know refer to kufr as anything beyond covering the truth about Allah. I have not seen any real evidence to widen it so much.
I don't have anything to add other than what has already been said.peace