Ramadan is dangerous for muslim countries
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Peace,
Well, I consider 1926 to be talking about something completely different in another context. It is while Mary is giving birth to Jesus. This is very far-fetched in my opinion.
I have no clue how people can interpret the following ayat from the Quran to some other meaning than a fast from food and drink during daytime
2183 O you who believe, fasting has been decreed for you as it was
decreed for those before you, perhaps you may be righteous.2184 A few number of days; however, if any of you is ill or traveling,
then the same number from different days; and as for those who
can do so but with difficulty, they may redeem by feeding the
needy. And whoever does good voluntarily, then it is better for
him. And if you fast it is better for you if only you knew.2185 A month of aspiration, in which the Qur?an was revealed; as a
guide to the people and clarities from the guidance and the
Criterion. Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the month, then
let him fast therein. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same
number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not
to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count,
and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be
thankful.2186 And if My servants ask you about Me, I am near answering the calls of those who call to Me. So let them respond to Me and believe in Me that they may be guided.
2187 It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to
approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and
you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray
your souls so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you;
now you may approach them and seek what God has written for
you. And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct
from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast
until night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in
the temples. These are the boundaries of God, so do not transgress
them. It is thus that God clarifies His revelations to the people
who they may be righteous.Approaching the wives during Ramadhan used to not be allowed, but seemed to have been made allowed at the advent of Quran. Why would the whole abstention be from sex in the first place, if this was not even part of it from the start?
And it is a bit lame to be forced to abort the fast due to inability to abstain from sex, is it not? To make it up with other days instead.
"And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days" <- Do you need to have sex just because you are ill or traveling?
And if it is an oath of silence. Do you need to speak just because you are ill? Can you not travel the roads without speaking?
The same goes here, I wonder where you get the idea of your mind. Is that a logical idea? The very strangest addition is involving 1926 in this discussion since it is in a completely different context than Ramadhan. Someone said that the ripened dates which would fall down from a date palm is in the Fall by the way.
The only meaning which would mean to abort fasting would be abstention from food and drink since it can cause a dangerous situation if a person who is ill continues to do that. And I suppose travels were more exhausting 1000 years ago so they might be exempt from the fast too during their travel.
"And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night", what is misleading with this phrase from the traditional understanding? It is very straight-forward in my opinion, is it not?
God bless you
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19-26 "So eat and drink and be happy. If you see any human being, then say 'I have vowed an abstinence (SAOUM) for the Almighty, so I will not talk today to any of mankind.'"
This is honestly a question and not a snarky remark, sorry if it sounds like the latter. Why do you think 1926 is about ramadan? The entirety of that verse is about Maryam's life, that line is surrounded by verses about her life, yet there's a single line in the middle of it that's supposed to relate back to ramadan? The Quran usually puts across information in chunks/segments, yes, but usually more than a single line in-between lines of a completely different topic entirely
edit phone lagged and Man of Faith basically said my point before my post could load in. Please delete this post, sorry for the inconvenience
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to man of faith and azz
"And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night", what is misleading with this phrase from the traditional understanding? It is very straight-forward in my opinion, is it not?
Salaam
first of all, it is not obvious that there is a sex allusion in these verses.
Youbachirou means also to to be in front of.
making same reasoning you made for eating and drinking, we can deduce that if we are not in "siyyam", we can have sex with women in masajid.Read carefull 2-187. before saoum, approach women, eat and drink. After no more aproach women.
Why God didn't precise and don't eat and drink ?
if it is obvious, why did he mentionned "don't approch women" while saoum ?the fact is that we don't have to speak even to our wifes while we are dedicating time to God.
Moreover, dedicating time to god while travelling is pure hypocrysy.i have to mention also two verses that proves that another prophet make the saoum with meaning of not speaking to humans.
1910 He said ?My Lord, make for me a sign.? He said ?Your sign is that you will not speak to the people for three nights consecutively.?
341 He said ?My Lord, make for me a sign.? He said ?Your sign is not to speak to the people for three days except by symbol, and remember your Lord greatly, and glorify at dusk and dawn.?
the only way that the same sign of God be the same in two verses is that Zacharie was already making fasting from speaking during the day.
we know also from 19-22 that Meriem was "in retreat".
so, 19-26 is just a remembering for meriem and not a trick/lie for not to speak.
Miracle of speaking baby could be observed even if meriem have spoken.peace
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the fact is that we don't have to speak even to our wifes while we are dedicating time to God.
Moreover, dedicating time to god while travelling is pure hypocrysy.Excellent, it is so good you clarified that, thank you.
The whole post is excellent
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I suppose I'd either have to stop working (and thus stop providing for my family) or just not fast if that's true, my profession largely requires me to talk to people - as would be the case for anyone who works in any job requiring interaction with customers of any sort. With 2185 in mind this seems about 10x as inconvenient as the current view on fasting...
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Peace brother noshirk,
Okay. Thanks for your ideas. Will hope God will enlighten about the Truth. Unfortunatly this is still too vague for me to rule out fasting as it is right now.
But I have been thinking about 30 days of fasting out of 365 days per year seems a bit harsh for a merciful God, so there is a possibility that also here there is some error in the interpretation. However, I am still wondering how your arguments fit the first part of the series of ayat. The Biblical fasting is a lot shorter than the one traditionally presented by Muslims. Not saying to use the Bible as source of teachings, but it rings a bell that 'there is a dog buried somewhere here'.
As it is, I will continue to observe my Ramadhan fasting through abstention from food, drink and sex, and hope God will show right from wrong soon. It is an intense period of heeding God and calling upon Him. But rest assured I am keeping my mind open to strong arguments since I wish to serve the Lord the way He prescribed and not some "mullahs" from the past.
God bless you
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Peace Family,
How did things become so complicated from such a straight-forward religion?
Ramadan is the month during which the Quran was revealed, providing guidance
for the people, clear teachings, and the statute book. Those of you who witness this month
shall fast therein......................................................Mary had reason for not wanting to talk to anyone and it was not about fasting, she had
a baby with no father and did not want to discuss it at that time!called her from beneath her, saying, "Do not grieve. Your Lord has provided you
with a stream."If you shake the trunk of this palm tree, it will drop ripe dates for you.
"Eat and drink, and be happy. When you see anyone, say, 'I have made a vow
of silence I am not talking today to anyone.'"She would just wave folks away, no rap, thinking, I got enough on my mind already.
baby, no daddy, gotta deal with religious folk,... shucks, I don't wanna talk.I suppose I'd either have to stop working (and thus stop providing for my family) or just not fast if that's true, my profession largely requires me to talk to people - as would be the case for anyone who works in any job requiring interaction with customers of any sort. With 2185 in mind this seems about 10x as inconvenient as the current view on fasting...
Peace Azz,
Don't stop providing for you family, God is your friend not your enemy. Fast as best
you can. If you are traveling and moving about because of obligations the fast can be
more difficult, God gives those folk an out....................if one is ill or traveling, an equal number of other days may be
substituted......................................You can fast the month of ramadan, but the most merciful gives those believers the option
to make up those days at a convenient time.Blessed ramadan to all!
peace
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Peace Maha
Hehehe, I knowyou bring this evidences, just because you want avoid fasting, is that right?
Maha, the purpose we live in this world is for testing our faith, so it can determine we enter hell or heaven, it's depending on our actions.
So that's why Allah give tests to us, to testing our faith.Fasting is one of the tests.I actually hate fasting and fasting is the most ibadah I ever hated, but because it's Allah's commandment, so I will sacrifice myself to do it no matter what.
Fasting is hard, but it's not hard as torture in Nazi concentration camp.
Salaam
Yes this evidence is one of the reasons for why I don't fast traditional way.
Peace
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Yes this evidence is one of the reasons for why I don't fast traditional way.
Peace
Peace.So what kind of your fasting?
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Salaam,
You should not generalise the whole Islamic community just because some members are not experiencing positive things from fasting. FYI, I become much more peaceful, controlled, and focused on work when I am fasting. Whether you want to believe it or not, charity increases in the month of Ramadan (my friends in Indonesia right now are collecting charity and donation won't stop flowing).
So there are always two sides to look at things. Unfortunately you only focus on the negative and dangerous things, and fail to look at positive things.
It is up to you to choose not to fast because you believe it is not mandated by the Qur'aan. But may I request that you do not try to paint negative light on others who believe and practice differently from you.
If fasting improves your life so much why don't you fast for the whole year?
I have shown evidences for how disastrous Ramadan is for Muslim countries. You clearly don't know how to distinguish between "evidences" and "generalizing"
Peace
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Hehehe, it's already Ramadhan, but you still did some research.
I hope if you're done with your research, you can share your research to us.
By reading your evidences, it's also the truth if a person didn't eat for hours, it will harm their psycollogy such like easily to get angry.Actually I get bored if I do some traditional fasting, I'm also still in research to found some alternative ways of fasting.
Because I cannot concentrate in both of my job and college study if I don't eat. -
Hehehe, it's already Ramadhan, but you still did some research.
I hope if you're done with your research, you can share your research to us.
By reading your evidences, it's also the truth if a person didn't eat for hours, it will harm their psycollogy such like easily to get angry.Actually I get bored if I do some traditional fasting, I'm also still in research to found some alternative ways of fasting.
Because I cannot concentrate in both of my job and college study if I don't eat.I didn't got your point. And yes it's "already" Ramadan , that's why I am still researching.
I am intrested in knowing what Quran teaches about fasting. Peace -
God hasn't prohibited anyone from fasting the whole year as well. So if someone feels so well during fast then I don't understand why they don't do it for the whole year ?
Peace Maha,
You missed the point, fasting is a commandment from God, no additions or subtractions
needed.The messenger has believed in what was sent down to him from his Lord, and so
did the believers. They believe in GOD, His angels, His scripture, and His messengers
"We make no distinction among any of His messengers." They say, "We hear, and we
obey. Forgive us, our Lord. To You is the ultimate destiny."I wish all a blessed ramadan.
peace
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If we do it constantly it becomes as normal as eating during the day time. What's the point? The break from usual activity is what makes it an event that may be effective in whatever the hoped for achievements are. An unusual activity/event may force us to rethink things from a different perspective than a non event such as waking up every day to go to work or whatever. If someone thinks they don't need it, good for them. Billions of humans out there are all different, I'd wager most of them need an unusual event to start thinking. If someone thinks abstinence from food and drink doesn't make them think, just cranky...it's the intent to make them think that's the point. Not that they don't use it. It's not worthless, it's what you do with it that counts, just like most other stuff else except most everything else is a non event most of the times...so there's even less of an incentive to think...we just get on with life like zombies.
Some people can get arrogant with their level of knowledge and/or understanding about themselves and life in general. Some of us may even think we know better than to get affected with something simple just because it's not sophisticated enough for what they would consider God means. Just general comments, based on off the forum discussions. I've been there, had some experiences and at the end of the day...I admit that it's extremely humbling to realise that whatever I know, whatever I think I know till the end of my life is absolute crap compared to everything else. Let alone everything else altogether, that blows my mind apart. The common denominator throughout humanity are the simple things. When we lose sight of those, we complicate our lives unnecessarily.
Fasting I believe is a simple event in order for us to get closer to God and to reconsider our knowledge of ourselves and what we know. To start a new leaf, to refine ourselves whatever. One doesn't just do this stuff, it takes an event most of the time to re-evaluate or reaffirm; to show gratitude and/or gain understanding in a variety of ways...that may or may not last. To take it as something that one just has to do without understanding the spirit is the same as doing absolutely nothing. That would mean our intent has a huge part to play in it. Can this intent be brought about without fasting? For some people, sure. Might take another type of event in that case too. So why not just take it for what it is, something that is good for us if we understand what we're supposed to achieve with it? The fact that most people don't get it is neither here nor there but is a common complaint in most anything.
peace
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Peace Maha,
You missed the point, fasting is a commandment from God, no additions or subtractions
needed.The messenger has believed in what was sent down to him from his Lord, and so
did the believers. They believe in GOD, His angels, His scripture, and His messengers
"We make no distinction among any of His messengers." They say, "We hear, and we
obey. Forgive us, our Lord. To You is the ultimate destiny."I wish all a blessed ramadan.
peace
Peace.
I do not understand why you quoted the above verse when we all agree on it.
If you say that fast is for God Only, then I can understand it. But to claim that fasting has a lot of other "benefits" and then only fast for one month, doesn't really make sense. If you find fasting very beneficial to yourself, then why don't you fast for the whole year ?
I hope I have made my point clear.
May god guide us all,
Peace -
Peace.
I do not understand why you quoted the above verse when we all agree on it.
If you say that fast is for God Only, then I can understand it. But to claim that fasting has a lot of other "benefits" and then only fast for one month, doesn't really make sense. If you find fasting very beneficial to yourself, then why don't you fast for the whole year ?
I hope I have made my point clear.
May god guide us all,
PeacePeace Maha,
Yes you have
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Peace brother noshirk,
Okay. Thanks for your ideas. Will hope God will enlighten about the Truth. Unfortunatly this is still too vague for me to rule out fasting as it is right now.
But I have been thinking about 30 days of fasting out of 365 days per year seems a bit harsh for a merciful God, so there is a possibility that also here there is some error in the interpretation. However, I am still wondering how your arguments fit the first part of the series of ayat. The Biblical fasting is a lot shorter than the one traditionally presented by Muslims. Not saying to use the Bible as source of teachings, but it rings a bell that 'there is a dog buried somewhere here'.
As it is, I will continue to observe my Ramadhan fasting through abstention from food, drink and sex, and hope God will show right from wrong soon. It is an intense period of heeding God and calling upon Him. But rest assured I am keeping my mind open to strong arguments since I wish to serve the Lord the way He prescribed and not some "mullahs" from the past.
God bless you
Peace,
I am not picking up on your post per se, but this is just a phenomenon I've noticed. That's a change. I saw another post saying things like ''I have no clue'' - that was not so different from the language I used to Paper rain that he took issue with - and some of the things noshirk has said, these are things I mentioned in possibly quite a long post to you about. especially the questions with regards to the word saum if I recall. And then there was also the whole thread where it was being discussed so it may also be in several posts or whatever else. Also, brother mmkhan has written on this in an informative and helpful way, mentioning some, if not all of these things.
So I don't get why it was ''no clue'' in the first place, when others including myself, mmkhan and dawngorgeous have referred to such ideas. And that language is not so different to how I discussed with Paper rain, but I apologised for the directness of that. But, I recall you mentioned that people had been hostile to the guest or something very similar to that. But some things here can be seen in the exact same way as things were on that thread. So... yeah anyway, I get why mmkhan did not respond to a lot of different things on this forum about Ramadan. He made his piece, and he or anyone else for that matter on any topic whatever it is - this is a general point, not about this post per se - can't address all these things when some people prefer to read it written from someone else.
Not great really, but that's life and the way of forums, humanity or whatever it is. Have a nice Ramadan and all that.