Can Adam/Even be a metaphor?
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If God's footstool is in a separate dimension, it can still be larger without being present within our universe. Is this plausible? ie There doesn't necessarily have to be overlap between His footstool and all of His creation, even if His footstool is larger than the creations.
There isn't any "SEPARATE DIMENSION". Footstool/Korsiy is an allegorical example. The verse 2255 informs us that GOD Himself is much bigger than the whole Universe and that the creation is only a tiny part of GOD's kingdom.
Peace,
Khalil -
The first two verses say prepared for muttiqeen in past tense confused
Peace,
Correct! When Allah said in past tense, it is past. Every word in alQuraan is set for our understanding, not as per what Allah sees it. AlQuraan is a guidance for us, not for Allah. So, everything mentioned in it is as it is.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
Peace,
Correct! When Allah said in past tense, it is past. Every word in alQuraan is set for our understanding, not as per what Allah sees it. AlQuraan is a guidance for us, not for Allah. So, everything mentioned in it is as it is.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhanHowever, verses 744-50 are speaking about a future event while using past tense...
And mmkhan, where in the Quran does it say that Allah exists within this universe? There are about 10 dimensions as per string theory. My point is just to say that saying something is bigger doesn't necessarily mean it is overlapping/engulfing the smaller creation. God can be above/beyond His own kingdom, can't He? I guess it's silly but I don't think God is also on the ground I walk on or at the garbage dump, nor in my digestive tract. P
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However, verses 744-50 are speaking about a future event while using past tense...
Peace brother,
Does this make sense to you? Allah GUIDING His creation by speaking a future even using past tenses? Sorry bro, I disagree. I am sure you did not read the link about jannat that I gave you earlier on this thread. Read it and tally with 744-50, inshaAllah you will understand how perfectly Allah speaks, alhamduliAllah.
And mmkhan, where in the Quran does it say that Allah exists within this universe? There are about 10 dimensions as per string theory. My point is just to say that saying something is bigger doesn't necessarily mean it is overlapping/engulfing the smaller creation. God can be above/beyond His own kingdom, can't He? I guess it's silly but I don't think God is also on the ground I walk on or at the garbage dump, nor in my digestive tract. P
My reply Novice is not on this.. )
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
Peace brother,
Does this make sense to you? Allah GUIDING His creation by speaking a future even using past tenses? Sorry bro, I disagree. I am sure you did not read the link about jannat that I gave you earlier on this thread. Read it and tally with 744-50, inshaAllah you will understand how perfectly Allah speaks, alhamduliAllah.
My reply Novice is not on this.. )May Allah bless you pr
mmKhanIt does make sense to me, given that space/time is a property of our universe in the third dimension; given that God "knows the future," it is quite sensible to be able to interchange these issues. It is reinforced in the sense that speaking about it in the past tense signifies its definitive nature, but these are mere reflections; I will read more into the other link.
Salaamun alayka bro,
And as per reality reality?
Salaam,
BenderMany people fail to distinguish between the layman's usage of "theory" and the scientific definition of the word "theory." I am referring to the scientific theory known as string theory.
Peace be with you all.
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The actual reality of things with Allah (god) is as such you can never ever try to comprehend it because you don't possess the mind to do it.
for eg.When Moses met Kidhr when they were on the boat a bird dipped his beak into the ocean and Kidhr asked Moses "did u see that" Moses
said "yes"Kidhr then said "the amount of water displaced from the beak of that bird and the drop of water that fell back into the ocean is the same knowledge we posses and the ocean is like that of what Allah Possess" another example is thisAllah knows what has happened,is happening,what is going to happen and what would have happened had it happened and its different out comes..this is a arabic saying.
So to me think about dimensions and things y it serves no purpose as my mind is so small i cant even go there. -
It does make sense to me, given that space/time is a property of our universe in the third dimension; given that God "knows the future," it is quite sensible to be able to interchange these issues. It is reinforced in the sense that speaking about it in the past tense signifies its definitive nature, but these are mere reflections; I will read more into the other link.
Peace,
Sorry to say I disagree. We should not forget that alQuraan is a guide for all 2185, what you said above is not possible for majority of people to reflect on.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
Peace,
Sorry to say I disagree. We should not forget that alQuraan is a guide for all 2185, what you said above is not possible for majority of people to reflect on.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhanMy brother I'm not debating weather or not there is a possibility but the mere fact the this knowledge is futile because its not comprehendible
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The actual reality of things with Allah (god) is as such you can never ever try to comprehend it because you don't possess the mind to do it.
for eg.When Moses met Kidhr when they were on the boat a bird dipped his beak into the ocean and Kidhr asked Moses "did u see that" Moses
said "yes"Kidhr then said "the amount of water displaced from the beak of that bird and the drop of water that fell back into the ocean is the same knowledge we posses and the ocean is like that of what Allah Possess" another example is thisAllah knows what has happened,is happening,what is going to happen and what would have happened had it happened and its different out comes..this is a arabic saying.
So to me think about dimensions and things y it serves no purpose as my mind is so small i cant even go there.My brother I'm not debating weather or not there is a possibility but the mere fact the this knowledge is futile because its not comprehendible
I completely agree, but these matters of further reflection aren't necessary for guidance. I think the core principles of the Quran are clear and easy to understand - do good works, believe in one God, believe in the Last Day, etc. - I believe those are sufficient for success (refer to 262, a beautiful verse, as are they all!).
I just enjoy pondering and reflecting upon the book which is important, as well, and the book does require reflection and thought. I completely agree we do not possess even the slightest fraction of knowledge compared to Allah, but it does not mean we should not seek to learn that which we can. I understand the idea that thinking about this sort of thing is rather futile, but I must admit I am very critical of faith and I want to observe through every possible lens what is before me. I want to simply ask questions and see what others say, not to assume I presume I know anything, because I literally don't know much anything at all
I have learned so many great things from you great brothers and sisters on this site. I used to have a great difficulty accepting Adam due to the careless translations I've read (placing him in heaven, for example, in the story of the tree); thus I could only accept him as a symbol/persona, but now I am able to comfortably believe in him due to the careful analysis and help I received here. Alhamdulillah, thank you all.
I do agree string theory is not possible for the majority of people to reflect upon, including myself. I simply acknowledge its core ideas and find them absolutely fascinating and worth exploring. I am a stern believer in the separation of religion and science, but it does not mean science cannot enlighten us in how we understand our own faith, even our scripture. For example, Surah Alaq's mistranslation ("blood clot" is due to lack of understanding of embryology. Now, I have read better translations which replace this with "hanging/clinging thing." Science in this way helps us to understand which meaning is correct for multiple-meaning words.
Anyway, I don't know, I personally could not myself believe "God is everywhere" - it made much more sense to me to believe that He was above/beyond His creation God, being so pure, I could not imagine being present within our realm of corruption and filth.
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I am referring to the scientific theory known as string theory.
Peace be with you all.
Salaamun alayka,
And I was referring to reality.
Except when you think that the string theory is the reality, then I was asking the wrong question to the wrong person.Salaam,
Bender -
THINK.
Is there an ayat in the Quran which signifies that the God forbid us from thinking? Or warn us not to ponder upon His creations (His ayats) in the heavens and the earth and within us?
On the other hand, there are hundreds of ayats which the God command/suggest to think/ponder/observe/study/reflect/use reason/intelligence.
What happens if let say one day a scientist discovers a method to decode and read one?s records of deeds from his/her DNA? Also, from that we are able to discover our origins scientifically. There will be a time when man become submitters in throngs. Thereupon some will remain as disbelievers.
Those who fear Allah mainly are ulemas (scientists).There must be a reason to observe/discover/believe/feel/act. Think.
Peace to all.
Zone.
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My brother I'm not debating weather or not there is a possibility but the mere fact the this knowledge is futile because its not comprehendible
Agreed
Peace ajiboghareeb21,
Surah 18/60-82 speaks of hidden realities that God has permitted us to know.
Blessed ramadan to all!
peace
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Anyway, I don't know, I personally could not myself believe "God is everywhere" - it made much more sense to me to believe that He was above/beyond His creation God, being so pure, I could not imagine being present within our realm of corruption and filth.
highlights are from me
From my understanding of various verses of The Qur?aan , I?ve come to believe that GOD is Infinite in size, Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient. He is the PERMEATING force of the whole Universe and beyond. The ?realm of corruption and filth? is only our materialistic measurement and understanding of how unGODly we can get, and that is because Satan is tempting and enticing us constantly. The said human measures and understandings do not have anything to do with the way GOD approaches his creation.
And yes, GOD is PURE. In fact He is the absolute purity, so pure that He permeates through the whole creation (both subatomic and intergalactic). He fills the whole creation and beyond. That is why He is OMNIPRESENT. As the matter of fact one of His beautiful names is PURE or LATEEF in Arabic. See verse 3116. Also see verses 5016 and 5683-85 to see how close GOD is to us.
Peace,
Khalil -
This is a very interesting topic. I have learnt much from everyone. My take is that I completely agree with brother khalil(kgwithnob)
230 And when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."
From this verse, we understand that Adam was destined for earth.
235 And We said, "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom in abundance from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."
A few verses later, God put Adam and his wife in Paradise instead of earth. Did Allah change his mind? What would have happened if Adam did not eat the apple? This has always been an intrigue for me and sounds a bit fishy...unless the paradise was on earth. For me, the episode of the apple was the litmus test for free will. When Adam ate the apple and disobeyed God, hominids attain free will (after a lond period of evolution that Quran and Science confirm) and become accountable. Adam was thus the first accountable man.
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I reckon the apple story is biblical. Nevertheless , what I understood, Adam did disobey God, may be by approaching the tree which he was not suppose to, whether the tree was real or allegorical. It's nice to have eveyone's opinion. As I said, this has long intrigued me.
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I reckon the apple story is biblical. Nevertheless , what I understood, Adam did disobey God, may be by approaching the tree which he was not suppose to, whether the tree was real or allegorical. It's nice to have eveyone's opinion. As I said, this has long intrigued me.
The Qur?aan says, after they ate from the forbidden tree they lost their natural garments (clothing, covering, fur). Then they started to cover themselves with the leaves of the forest/garden. Afterwards they had to gradually migrate, climbing down to lower grounds and warmer climates for having no protection (clothing) against the cold of the higher altitudes of the mountainous forest.
236,
Then did Satan make them slip from it and get them out of what they were in. We said "Get ye down all with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling place and your means of livelihood for a time."
Eating from the forbidden tree must have had an ADVERSE and IRREVERSIBLE side effect on their body, i.e. causing them to permanently shed their thick natural protecting fur.
Peace,
Khalil -
peace all
if Allah tell us about Adam, then it has its relevance even today and hereafter, a sign in every one of our lives.
these posts seem some relevance to the topic discussed.
Touch not the timber reply # 7 in http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605160.0
reply # 79 page 8. http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604771.70
peace