Fast Poll
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Whatever the word might had been at the time of Abraham, pbuh, ALLAAH, swt, has used its equivalent in Arabic, which is /Al-Muslimeen.
So the god translated the universal concept of "al-muslimeen" into Arabic because it is a meaningful common noun and you insist it is a meaningless proper name. Who should we believe, the god or you?
Peace,
Ayman
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/Al-Muslimeen means "the MUSLIMS", people who follow the religion of ISLAM.
This is meaningless. Proper names are meaningless and don't convey truth. Just because a guy is named Karim doesn't mean he is generous and this is why they are not translated. On the other hand, if you traslate karim to generous and say someone is generous then this conveys meaning. This is why unlike you, the god translated the peacemakers into Arabic from the ancient language that Abraham spoke. This is a basic concept and it is not my problem that you don't understand the difference between common nouns and proper names.
Peace,
Ayman
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My main point in emphasizing on NOT to change the proper names, especially the religious ones, to one's impulsive and egoistical likings, is that there are ideological, historical, and cultural values that they carry with them. Religious proper names are an integral part of the beliefs and religious values of billions of people around the world and over the centuries have earned their own global recognition.
985
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God can be a translation of Allah
It is not a good translation because the word "allah" has the Arabic definite article while god doesn't.
However, Peacemaker is a poor translation for Muslim because it denotes a go between
and not one who has surrendered.One who surendered is "mustaslim" and surrender is "istislam". It is a completely different Masdar and this is well known to anyone who knows Arabic.
Agreed, to have my name begin with caps and not God's is indeed offensive and blasphemous.
There are no caps in Arabic or in English speech for that matter ). So you are saying that you are being blasphemous when you write in Arabic or speak in English. In fact, much like Arabic, English speakers use CONTEXT to determine if something is a common noun or proper name due to the absence of capitalization in speech. When you capitalize or not translate the common noun "the god"/"allah" you are essentially saying that it is a meaningless label.
Hey! we are in the last ten days of Ramadan, Insha'Allah congrats are on the way!
I see that you take the word "ramadan" (scorching heat) to be another meaningless word that you imply the god haphazardly chose.
Peace,
Ayman
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This is meaningless. Proper names are meaningless and don't convey truth. Just because a guy is named Karim doesn't mean he is generous and this is why they are not translated. On the other hand, if you traslate karim to generous and say someone is generous then this conveys meaning. This is why unlike you, the god translated the peacemakers into Arabic from the ancient language that Abraham spoke. This is a basic concept and it is not my problem that you don't understand the difference between common nouns and proper names.
Peace,
Ayman
The word alMuslimeen/, derives from the root word "Sa-La-Ma", which many other related words, carrying different meanings, derive from it. In this case the word happens to be the proper name for the people who foloww the religion of "Islam". The English EQUIVALENT of the proper name here is "the Muslims" with capital M. Here we are talking about the religious identity of billions of people in a global scale, called the Muslims. It is just like when we identify the followers of the Christianity as Christians and followers of Judaism as Jews. Here the meaning of the word is NOT of the essence at all, and that is what I'm trying to get across to those who are ignoring this essential fact.
To make it easier to understand; if someone is curious about my faith, I identify myself as a "Muslim". I'm not going to tell them i am a "peace maker" or a "submitter". Here the word "Muslim" clicks right away, because it is globally recognized.
Peace,
Khalil -
One who surendered is "mustaslim" and surrender is "istislam". It is a completely different Masdar and this is well known to anyone who knows Arabic.
Peace ayman,
You obviously missed the point, my Arabic is still in the learning stage, but if you know
it so well, you should have gotten my point, like when someone's English is poor, I am
able to decipher the meaning they are trying to convey, if I did otherwise like you that
would be disingenuous. The point was " Peacemaker is a poor translation for Muslim
because it denotes a go between and not one who has surrendered.It is not a good translation because the word "allah" has the Arabic definite article while god doesn't.
You can continue with your the god, I prefer God.
There are no caps in Arabic or in English speech for that matter )
But there are caps in writing! )
When do we Use Capital Letters?
- Use a capital letter for the personal pronoun 'I'
?What can I say?
2. Use a capital letter to begin a sentence or to begin speech-
Use capital letters for many abbreviations and acronyms
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Use a capital letter for days of the week, months of the year, holidays
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Use a capital letter for countries, languages & nationalities, religions
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Use a capital letter for people's names and titles
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Use a capital letter for trade-marks and names of companies and other organizations
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Use a capital letter for places and monuments
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Use a capital letter for names of vehicles like ships, trains and spacecraft
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Use a capital letter for titles of books, poems, songs, plays, films etc
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Use capitals letters (sometimes!) for headings, titles of articles, books etc, and newspaper
headlines
I see that you take the word "ramadan" (scorching heat) to be another meaningless word that you imply the god haphazardly chose.
?January named after Janus, the god of doors and gates
?February named after Februalia, a time period when sacrifices were made to atone for sins
?March named after Mars, the god of war
?April from aperire, Latin for ?to open? (buds)
?May named after Maia, the goddess of growth of plants
?June from junius, Latin for the goddess Juno
?July named after Julius Caesar in 44 B.C.
?August named after Augustus Caesar in 8 B.C.
?September from septem, Latin for ?seven?
?October from octo, Latin for ?eight?
?November from novem, Latin for ?nine?
?December from decem, Latin for ?ten?How things start out is not always how they end, Ramadan now is the month of fasting
peace
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Peace,
To make it easier to understand; if someone is curious about my faith, I identify myself as a "Muslim". I'm not going to tell them i am a "peace maker" or a "submitter". Here the word "Muslim" clicks right away, because it is globally recognized.
Peacemaking is not a religion and one doesn?t even have to be a believer to be a peacemaker as clear from 4914
- The dwellers of the wilderness said ?we believed?. Say ?You didn?t believe but say we made peace but faith has not entered your hearts and if you obey the god and his messenger, he will not diminish any of your deeds, indeed the god is forgiving, merciful.
Thus, the opposite of peacemaker/?muslim? is not disbeliever. The opposite of a peacemaker is a criminal
- Shall we make peacemakers like criminals!?
A criminal corrupts and causes bloodshed. On the other hand, by being peacemakers, humans fulfill the responsibility that the god entrusted them with.
- And when the god said to the controllers ?I am making in the earth a leader?. They said ?Do you make in it that who corrupts in it and sheds blood while we exalt with your praise and sanctify for you?? He said ?I know what you don?t know.?
What is "islam"?*
- for those who are after the original intended meaning so they can appreciate the god's message more and could care less if a word is an integral part of the beliefs and religious values of billions of people around the world and over the centuries have earned their own global recognition.
Abdelilah
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Peace Earthdom.
- In Lane Lexicon page 1612 in section , reffering the word shahr as month not moon.
This is a false claim.
Please check Lanes again
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume4/00000336.pdf
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume4/00000337.pdfAlso
The moon or the moon when conspicuous, and near to being full. -
When you capitalize or not translate the common noun "the god"/"allah" you are essentially saying that it is a meaningless label.
Peace,
Ayman
Salaamun alayka,
That is your understanding but it does not apply for me.
I capitalize the word Allah or whenever I refer to Him (if I do not forget), and I do not translate it (if I not forget).
That does not mean it is for me a meaningless label &salaam,
Bender -
Salaamun alayka,
That is not true.
2729
Sulayman wanted that they come muslim to him (him=Sulayman).Salaam,
Bender2731,
Do not consider yourselves above me and come to me as Muslims.
People of Sheba were worshiping the Sun. King Solomon who was a messenger of GOD sent them a letter and invited them to Islam becoming Muslims. That is what the verse means. Their queen was the first among them to accept Islam. See 2744 below
...
...She said, my Lord I did wrong myself and I become a Muslim alongside with Solomon to ALLAAH, Lord of the Universe.
Peace,
Khalil -
2731,
Do not consider yourselves above me and come to me as Muslims.
People of Sheba were worshiping the Sun. King Solomon who was a messenger of GOD sent them a letter and invited them to Islam becoming Muslims. That is what the verse means. Their queen was the first among them to accept Islam. See 2744 below
...
...She said, my Lord I did wrong myself and I become a Muslim alongside with Solomon to ALLAAH, Lord of the Universe.
Peace,
KhalilSalaamun alayka,
RED Who is this?
GREEN He did not say that nope
Please try to understand the next verses to understand what he is asking them. And please notice that they did not understood it as the islam/moslim as how you understand it.
A- 2733
A- 2734salaam,
Bender -
Peace Abdelilah.
2189 mentions / the crescents. The word for moon is .
But that crescent one is moon even it's implicit
Lisaan Al-Arab
.I understand Arabic, but my vocabularies is poor.Lisan Al Arab only provide the usage of word in pronouncation only, so it's no use for this.
Classical Arab (fussha) is high strutural language and it's not easy to understand it.
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Please check Lanes again
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume4/00000336.pdf
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume4/00000337.pdfDear Timur.It seems you're didn't quote the full explanation instead only picking some part.
You quote this
Also
The moon or the moon when conspicuous, and near to being full.and the surrounding explanation is
The new moon, when it appear
meaning "I saw the new moon of the month" (Mgh).
Then what is the meaning of "new moon of the month"?? The answer is the following explnation
meaning "Fast ye the first day of lunar month" (Lh, TA)
SO the meaning new moon is the first day of lunar month not satelite full moon as assumpted before.New moon in usage of lunar calendar such like Islamic calendar, is to marking the first day on the month.
See http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_moon
From the wikipedia we also get the fact if full moon is used for astrology,so this means it's a shirk. So New moon and full moon is different.Then what is the full moon in the Lane Lexicon, read this explanation
meaning The utility for watching the new moon (first day in lunar month) is on the nine and twentieth night. (L,TA) .Also The moon or the moon when conspicuous, and near to being full.__And a certain well known number of days so called because made manifest by the moon.
Brother, we must critic if we reading any book.See bold word.It written as "and near to being full" not "full".So it's not true if we translate shahr as full moon.
Shahr is still means month and moon/new moon is for the marking only.If you disagree with me please read the hadith text which I ever quoted before for knowing the usage of the word shahr at that time
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605535.30 (reply no 30).
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Salaamun alayka,
RED Who is this?
GREEN He did not say that nope
Please try to understand the next verses to understand what he is asking them. And please notice that they did not understood it as the islam/moslim as how you understand it.
A- 2733
A- 2734salaam,
BenderTo understand the story in its entirety, just go through 2720-44. The conclusion is that King Solomon as a messenger of GOD, after being informed of the existence of an idol worshiping nation next to his kingdom decided to invite them to Islam, and he was successful in his endeavor too.
Peace,
Khalil -
Peace all,
While we try to encourage productive debate, can I please remind members that they should try to keep to the subject matter of the thread.
Feel free to create new threads to discuss your chosen subject, or use the search function to see if a similar thread has already been created and continue the discussion there.
This makes it easier for people to follow the arguments of the thread with minimal digression.
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Peace Earthdom,
Dear Timur.It seems you're didn't quote the full explanation instead only picking some part.
The reason Timur only quoted that part was because of this
Earthdom "In Lane Lexicon page 1612 in section , reffering the word shahr as month not moon."
So here it is again. Lane's Lexicon, page 1612
The moon or the moon when conspicuous, and near to being full.Timur was even so good to link to the complete entry of in Lane's Lexicon (page 1612-1613)
Please check Lanes again
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume4/00000336.pdf
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume4/00000337.pdfSo he wasn't "only picking some part" but disproving a false claim.
Abdelilah
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2731,
Do not consider yourselves above me and come to me as Muslims.
People of Sheba were worshiping the Sun. King Solomon who was a messenger of GOD sent them a letter and invited them to Islam becoming Muslims. That is what the verse means. Their queen was the first among them to accept Islam. See 2744 below
...
...She said, my Lord I did wrong myself and I become a Muslim alongside with Solomon to ALLAAH, Lord of the Universe.So according to you Solomon invited them to some religion with an Arabic proper name that they didn't understand and they mindlessly repeated the word Muslim without understanding it in their language!!!
Also, read the context of 2731, it is not about forcing people into some meaningless Arabic name of a religion. The reaction of the queen's people was to go to war. They never say "people hold on to your religion" or anything like that. So clearly Solomon was saying for them to come to him as "peacemakers". Later when the queen saw the signs of her lord, she made peace to the god and not to some Arabic proper name that was meaningless to her.
Peace,
Ayman
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So according to you Solomon invited them to some religion with an Arabic proper name that they didn't understand and they mindlessly repeated the word Muslim without understanding it in their language!!!
Also, read the context of 2731, it is not about forcing people into some meaningless Arabic name of a religion. The reaction of the queen's people was to go to war. They never say "people hold on to your religion" or anything like that. So clearly Solomon was saying for them to come to him as "peacemakers". Later when the queen saw the signs of her lord, she made peace to the god and not to some Arabic proper name that was meaningless to her.
Peace,
Ayman
At the present time, The Qur'aan, its language, and what it is trying to communicate to us is of the essence. Whatever the language of people of Sheba at their time was, is not important to us today. Arabic is the language that GOD has picked to communicate with us and He knows best.
There are Arabic words, like in many other languages, that through a long history have globally been accepted and recognized. These words are not to be translated when used in another language. Only their transliterations or at best their equivalents that convey the exact same meaning in the original language are used. And this is for their meanings not to be compromised. Examples are the Arabic words "algebra", "function", "mechanic", "Islam", "Muslims", "The Qur'aan", and many more when used in English language.
Peace,
Khalil