مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ -occurrence by occurence study
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No man is allowed to have sex with any women.
Peace Mazhar
The thread is intended to just discussing MMA. Perhaps you should hold back such comments as that will lead to another topic. Even if you make such comments, how about evidence?
This thread is a good idea, so good move for starting it. I hope you can reconcile the following
The only people to whom one can unguard their private parts are the zawj or the Ma Malekat aymunkum. If those whom your oaths possess/ Those whom your right hands possess do not encompass doctors, nurses, surgeons, caretakers and so on, then it becomes the case that we cannot allow access to our private parts to them.
Thus a doctor cannot access the private parts of someone UNLESS they are married to that someone.
Thus a surgeon cannot operate on someone's private parts untill they marry whoever it is that they intend to marry.Also if it is your position that one cannot have sex with those whom their oaths possess (such as fiances or girlfriends ), I hope you can point to the restrictions before forming this understanding.
Peace
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Now you sound reasonable but there are contradictions in your posts for eg see highlight above and your post where you said; Doesn't this happen to those who don't take responsibility for themselves and for those they are responsible for?
Not everyone is capable of looking after their affairs (take responsibility for themselves) some need our help or service
PeaceTaking responsibility for ourselves is to be prepared for any eventuality and for this we do need to work well, otherwise we may not have the means of looking after ourselves.
It is us the people who make good things happen if we function in line with Gods attributes, whether we do it for money or we do it for free.
Finally if we keep expecting God to do it all for us, then we can sit and wait all our lives, as He will guide us but we have to do the work - i think.
Unfortunately i have seen people in our countries they keep waiting for handouts but also have the unfortunate belief that they will get it if its written.
They essentially do need to increase their outputs to get out of poverty...........i think most people will agree on this.
peace
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I have uploaded the article covering perhaps all the occurrences of the Verbal Sentence.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/000.%20Encyclopaedia%20of%20Arabic%20of%20Qur'aan/4.%20Articles%20Ontology/3.%20Ma%20Malakat%20Aimanukum/3.%20Ma%20Malakat%20Aimanukum.htm
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Peace,
See, there are other so-called 'Quranists' who try to justify slavery and are sex-maniac.
Shame on you fake 'muslims'.
I don't believe that The Most Merciful and Wise allows and advocates having sex with maids / servants.
Make this as one of your prayers for the world peace as true muslims
O' God the Lord of the worlds,
Indeed, we are always in need,
And our knowledge is limited,
You are The Knower,
Please clarify this disputed thing,
Please clarify to us the real meaning of in different verses in the Qur'an,
Please open our eyes for the truth,
Forbid those who try to distort the meaning of Your words in the Book,
Forbid those who do evil things,
Give us the strenghts to face and fight the evildoers,
Give us the strength to emancipate the unfortunate, enslaved and oppressed people,
And strengthen our faith in You,
O' Lord of the worlds. -
Thanks;
People naively forget that women are permissible solely for a SINGULAR purpose; all else is debauchery and sexual lust, declared Haram.
Take note women other than the sanctified-prohibited are declared lawfully permissible-knot liquefied for you.
They are made permissible solely and exclusively for the purpose that you might sincerely seek them with your wealth in the manner of those who seek women for taking them in protective fold of Matrimonial Bond Nikah rendering them a pearl of household.
Their seeking is not allowed with wealth in the manner of debauch men for sexual lust-merely for flowing out the "water momentary intercourse".Word by word 424
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Thanks;
People naively forget that women are permissible solely for a SINGULAR purpose; all else is debauchery and sexual lust, declared Haram.
Take note women other than the sanctified-prohibited are declared lawfully permissible-knot liquefied for you.
They are made permissible solely and exclusively for the purpose that you might sincerely seek them with your wealth in the manner of those who seek women for taking them in protective fold of Matrimonial Bond Nikah rendering them a pearl of household.
Their seeking is not allowed with wealth in the manner of debauch men for sexual lust-merely for flowing out the "water momentary intercourse".Word by word 424
Peace Mazhar
What is this singular purpose that renders all other purposes as debauchery and lust?
If x and y decide to have a relationship in a manner that does not constitute fahisha, then they have not done wrong. This is irrelevant to any beliefs we hold about marriages; such as it being based on love and staibility rather than lust (as implied by the verse you've quoted).
The only way that you could argue that sex is exclusive to marriage, is if you hold the belief that sex outside of marriage is lewd. Quranically, there is nothing else to go on regarding the restriction of sex to marriages.
So, If it can be rationally argued that sexual activity outside of marriage is intrinsically disgusting and lewd, then it can be argued that sex is wrong. But there needs to be some sort of justification of why it's lewd rather than just asserting that it's lewd.
I don't see how it can be argued that all unmarried relationships are lewd; how would you do this? How could you consider a relationship that involves sex but for productive purposes rather than addictive and detrimental purposes as wrong? Its not about the marriage certificate, its about the nature of the relationship.
Fahisha (lewdness) can occur between a married couple just as it can occur between an unmarried couple. Its the nature of their relationship that deems sex within it as right or wrong, not the marriage certificate. The marriage certificate has other purposes.
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Salam
Peace
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Peace Mazhar
What is this singular purpose that renders all other purposes as debauchery and lust?
If x and y decide to have a relationship in a manner that does not constitute fahisha, then they have not done wrong. This is irrelevant to any beliefs we hold about marriages; such as it being based on love and staibility rather than lust (as implied by the verse you've quoted).
The only way that you could argue that sex is exclusive to marriage, is if you hold the belief that sex outside of marriage is lewd. Quranically, there is nothing else to go on regarding the restriction of sex to marriages.
So, If it can be rationally argued that sexual activity outside of marriage is intrinsically disgusting and lewd, then it can be argued that sex is wrong. But there needs to be some sort of justification of why it's lewd rather than just asserting that it's lewd.
I don't see how it can be argued that all unmarried relationships are lewd; how would you do this? How could you consider a relationship that involves sex but for productive purposes rather than addictive and detrimental purposes as wrong? Its not about the marriage certificate, its about the nature of the relationship.
Fahisha (lewdness) can occur between a married couple just as it can occur between an unmarried couple. Its the nature of their relationship that deems sex within it as right or wrong, not the marriage certificate. The marriage certificate has other purposes.
Sex IS marriage. The rest, the papers, the formalities and all that, are additions porvided so that those who would forget do not forget that sex Is marriage. To make the accessory to be the fundamental is in fact the fundamental error. It is sex what constitues marriage, not a paper. People who forget that, that sex is something serious and deep, in a plain sense sacred, betray their human call and become worse than animals, without self-command and self-restraint, without self-respect whatsoever. Sex is nto a casual thing nor something done to prove power. In fact animals are cleaner than people when people forget what they owe themselves. It is the perversion of sex that has created the appearance that sex and marriage are two different things. There is no sense whatsoever in marriage if you separate sex from it.
Salaam
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Peace Mazhar
What is this singular purpose that renders all other purposes as debauchery and lust?
If x and y decide to have a relationship in a manner that does not constitute fahisha, then they have not done wrong. This is irrelevant to any beliefs we hold about marriages; such as it being based on love and staibility rather than lust (as implied by the verse you've quoted).
The only way that you could argue that sex is exclusive to marriage, is if you hold the belief that sex outside of marriage is lewd. Quranically, there is nothing else to go on regarding the restriction of sex to marriages.
So, If it can be rationally argued that sexual activity outside of marriage is intrinsically disgusting and lewd, then it can be argued that sex is wrong. But there needs to be some sort of justification of why it's lewd rather than just asserting that it's lewd.
I don't see how it can be argued that all unmarried relationships are lewd; how would you do this? How could you consider a relationship that involves sex but for productive purposes rather than addictive and detrimental purposes as wrong? Its not about the marriage certificate, its about the nature of the relationship.
Fahisha (lewdness) can occur between a married couple just as it can occur between an unmarried couple. Its the nature of their relationship that deems sex within it as right or wrong, not the marriage certificate. The marriage certificate has other purposes.
You need to seriously rethink what you have written above. Your post is just so wrong on so many levels. Exclusion from the Quran does not imply that a particular behaviour is permissible. What you believe to be seemingly innocuous behaviour where a man and a woman enter into a 'no strings attached' relationship comes at a huge psychological, social and economic cost. You just do not realize it as you have not thought through the unintended consequences of indulging in such behaviour.
Quran focuses on behaviour modification through reflection of verses individually or grouped together based on a particular topic. It would do you good to relate what you read in Quran with the world you are a part of and take a holistic view of understanding an issue rather than relying on a superficial understanding preached by liberal wannabes that sex is just an expression of love between two individuals and thus isolated from Quran communal values.
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Salam huruf
Sex IS marriage.
It is sex what constitues marriage
If the purpose of sex and marriage where the same, I would agree. But they have different purposes. A couple who marry but refuse to have sex, for whatever reason, are still married and the primary purpose of their marriage (legally bound to each other) is still in place. It may not be a maximally effective marriage, but it's still a marriage.
People who forget that, that sex is something serious and deep, in a plain sense sacred, betray their human call and become worse than animals, without self-command and self-restraint, without self-respect whatsoever.
This is true of someone who's rationality has been suffocated by his/her desire. But someone who's reason is in command of his/her emotions and desires is anything but animal like even when they engage in actions that animals also engage in (eat, sleep, sex, play etc.)
If someone has considered all things rationally, and has concluded to engage in sexual activity, then their action cannot be associated with inadequate self-restraint, self-respect or self-command. There three traits can only be attributed to someone if they've acted out of pure desire and have gone contrary to what their reason conveys to them.
There is no sense whatsoever in marriage if you separate sex from it.
Marriage legally binds a couple to one another and because such a commitment is deep and perhaps the most serious anyone can make, it implies a strong bond between the two getting married.
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If sex is required for this strong bond, then rationally it should be the case that a couple have sex so that they can recognise and establish the strong bond before getting married. Without a strong bond, proposal of marriage is reckless given the nature of the commitment.
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If sex is not required for this strong bond, then a marriage can still be effective without sex.
In the case of 2 there is nothing wrong with abstaining from sex until marriage. In the case of 2, it would be reckless to marry without having sex with the respective partner first.
Either way, I can't see how marriage and sex are the same thing.
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What you believe to be seemingly innocuous behaviour where a man and a woman enter into a 'no strings attached' relationship comes at a huge psychological, social and economic cost. You just do not realize it as you have not thought through the unintended consequences of indulging in such behaviour.
I have given it plenty of thought. You haven't made any clear objections for me to respond to. Be more specific. What psychological consequences or social and economic costs are you referring to?
It would do you good to relate what you read in Quran with the world you are a part of and take a holistic view of understanding an issue rather than relying on a superficial understanding preached by liberal wannabes that sex is just an expression of love between two individuals and thus isolated from Quran communal values.
This isn't something that was preached to me. I proposed it because as far as I could see and still see, rationally and morally, there is nothing wrong with sex. Marriage doesn't make it right or wrong. Rape can still happen in marriages but just because the two are married, doesn't mean that the rape is justified.
It's not the sex that's wrong, it's the context. Marriage doesn't takeaway or bring justification from a contextual perspective. Other factors are more important.
For example, consent of both parties, sufficient protection, sufficient understanding of the nature and consequences of sex by both individuals are just a few examples that must be adhered to whether married or not.If sex was morally or rationally wrong without a couple getting married first, then you could say that it's a transgression and therefore prohibited by the Quran because it's morally wrong. But you can't assert that. How would you assert that?
Peace
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Define marriage.
In my opinion, marriage is the most serious commitment two individuals make to one another that legally binds them in the most intense way that anyone can legally be bound to someone else.
For this commitment to happen in a good manner, a marriage proposal needs be for the right reasons and not just for sex because sex does not guarantee an effective relationship. If it did, divorces would most likely be significantly less than statistics convey.
According to other sources, marriage is defined as
Wikipaedia Marriage (also called matrimony or wedlock) is a socially or ritually recognized union or legal contract between spouses that establishes rights and obligations between them, between them and their children, and between them and their in-laws. The definition of marriage varies according to different cultures, but it is principally an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually intimate and sexual, are acknowledged. In some cultures, marriage is recommended or compulsory before pursuing any sexual activity.
Whatever definition we look at, I'm pretty sure that all would necessarily include the importance of a life-long commitment between a couple. This is the key purpose along with a legal establishment of the bond between the two. I can't see how sex is necessarily an attribute exclusive to marriages.
Is there any way, that you can somehow tie sex to marriage such that without sex marriage is not marriage and without marriage sex is not sex? If you can't do this, what moral or rational justification is there for sex to be exclusive to marriage?
Unwanted pregnancies can occur in marriages. Regarding STDs, then protection should be used.
If a couple wanted to be extremely cautious regarding these possible consequences of sexual activity, then they would get themselves tested first, then make sure that no penetration occurs. They would not get married and then just have sex without carrying out the other two precautions against unwanted pregnancies or STDs. -
What do you say is the definition given by Qur'an?
It's a documented bond between two people 2433 (which I believe requires witnesses)
It is not for the sake of lust or sex. It is for the sake of maximally becoming mu'inna (424). I think that the more muhsinina someone is (being muhsinina is not exclusive to marriage), the more mature and guarded they are from harm, suffering, or just a lack of purpose in life.
Any relationship that aims for a strong quality of unity, brings with it a serious but rewarding challenge. Being maximally intimate with another human (which in my opinion entails being exclusive), brings with it the maximum level of bond and unity possible for a human.
The best of relationships, where love and affection are maximally present and both individuals in the relationship are excellent characters (wise, patient, understanding, rational, cooperative etc.,) and deeply intimate with each other, bring out the best of both individuals. In such a case, it is always going to be better for the two individuals to be together than to not be together. Overall they are a stronger force together in comparison to if they were apart (they can achieve more together etc.,).
That's why I think the goal of marriage is to maximise being muhsinina. You are most guarded when you have someone to share pretty much every aspect of yourself with. I can only see that happening successfully and effectively in the best of relationships. When two people are in such an excellent relationship, then marriage is essentially making it official and both are putting everything on the line by becoming legally bound to each other exclusively for life.
When a Quranist makes a proposal for marriage, then it should only be because he/she seeks that maximal level unity with someone else (to become further muhsinina/guarded). But there is nothing wrong with achieving a high level of intimacy before making it official and legally binding.
From a logical perspective, no matter how strong a relationship is, a marriage certificate will make it stronger and more guarded because to be legally wed to someone else, is an extra manner of being guarded (legally guarded) therefore no matter how strong a relationship is, the proposal of marriage adds to it in a positive manner.