Hijab
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Blessings be upon thee,
Thanks to a modern revolution? Well, I doubt it is all for the better. One positive and important aspect is that it is no longer compulsory, but all positive I am not willing to agree on.
This dress code has been exploited and used to control particularly women but it is not all evil with scarves and this practice of wearing something on your head. It originates from the ideas that one ought to be modest and humble. But like I wrote; it is a piece of clothing like that in case you would wear a pair of shoes on your feet and as you can walk barefoot you can also remove your hat. It is as vulgar to remove the hat as to take off your shoes, ie not dangerous at all even if you reveal a small fraction of your bodily parts.
Half the modesty Quran talks about is what you do with your body and not how you make a display of it.
Many traditional muslim women (own experience living in Iran) are afraid that a foreign man happen to see her nakedness (hair) and this is worrying. In some "pious" women this causes immense psychological stress and it seems to means almost equal to death if even their hair is seen. What is forgotten is that to fulfill that sin is to undress deliberately and then engage in seduction.
What is also strange is that there seems to be no difference if it is the private parts or the hair, the "sin" is equal by the disproportionate reaction. Although the hair is a feature of beauty it is no more a vulgar body part than the feet. We can also not let ourselves become like ghosts and not live just because we are afraid of being immodest.
A headdress should be regarded just as a pair of socks, ie part of the outfit. It can extend the individual modesty, but it is not worse than becoming barefoot. We cannot even remotely compare this to if a woman reveal part of her breasts.
My point in this and previous posts is to tell the message that hats and headdresses are nothing wrong and it can be a personal choice in the definition of modesty. We ought not to call the decision to use these clothes as stupid or bad. Only that no one should be forced to wear them due to religious zealotry.
God bless you
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The Mediterraneans / Middle-Easterners culture, custom and tradition mandated their women to cover their hair / head.
And so does the tradition in pre Quran Arabic / Desert People society.
Evidence; statue of al-Uzza or Allat, the Desert People/Arab's goddess of fertility.
http//arabianwomen.nielsonpi.com/images492/Inannasm.jpg
Since The Quran's context was in such region / tradition. And mind you the environment was not a 'friendly environment' at all (to avoid calling it "Dangerous". Thus it does recommend to follow the local clothing habits to avoid "Getting Unwanted Attention".
The top objective is the Women's safety (of getting raped, kidnapped etc.. which was common and rampant in the area where the Quran was being written)
Thus when you're in area where wearing certain clothing is considered 'dangerous' for you. Well then adapt your clothing style.. the top objective remain the same.. to avoid "Getting Unwanted Attention" and securing your own safety.
Salam / Peace
Salaam,
Seriously I don't understand why some people equate women's HAIR/HEAD with private parts, breasts and other women's sexually attractive body parts.
I don't understand why women's hair/head is the reason of rape in the eyes of some hijab freaks.
Seriously I don't understand why some people think that women must cover almost all parts of her body to avoid rape why men just do nothing.
Does HAIR/HEAD make men arousal?
I don't understand why men can show their head/hair why women can't.
Too much male chauvinism entered in Islam.Regards,
Yuliana -
Peace family,
What is to be covered by women is what distinguishes them from men, in addition, both
men and women are commanded to lower their gaze. Therefore, a woman should be
covered from below the neck to the knees in clothing that does not reveal what is beneath
the clothing, easy right? Do not walk in such a way as to reveal what is beneath her clothing.The clothing is of little value if she does not lower the gaze, that is why the lowering of the
gaze is mentioned first in ayat 24/31 because it is the first prerequisite to modesty!peace
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So finally, as I can see, the Qur'an is completely useless, since everybody here is giving their own recipe as to how a believing woman should dress. The part in which women are different from men, that it is said they should cover, I would suppose that it would be he same for males and females since when where women are different form men, men in turn are also different from women, ?right? Though of course that also is a question of logic and not something that is in Qur'an either.
As far as I am concerned, it makes me laugh to fix a point in the body where modesty starts and where modesty ends. As I said previously, we are getting to do the same as the people of Musa with the calf to be scrificed.
I insist again that those parts that are different in males and females, to be fair, and to help homosexual males along, at least, women seems that do not need to be taken into account, only to impose obligations on them, so I say males also should cover those parts ?or not? Women lead to sin and men do not not even homosexual males? Because that is very grave. We all know what an awful terrible sin sodomy and men should not be incited to fall into that horrible vice. ?right? Save the straightness of the human species. It shoudl be worth the while ?or not?
Yes, I do I wonder how gullible we can get. And how disociated.
The Qur'an depicts how a man did drive crazy some women to the point where they assaulted him. If women are more dangerous from that point of view, the Qur'an for certain has not cared to inform us. According to the Qur'an and followign the crazy unreasoning of the hijabers, men should cover from the top of the head to the shoes, because they, in the Qur'an did drive women crazy. No woman in the Qur'an manages that.
Are muslims at some time getting out of this spell of equating women with dressing and undressing? Looks like not. To me it looks as a real proper disease.
Also, shouldn't we start some circumcision campaign for males where instead of touching their valuable genitalia their brain was excised of those lustful neurons that pose such a health hazard to themselves and to women. Makes sense ?right?
Salam
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Peace huruf,
I understand your frustration, but there are no dress codes for men in Quran except
to be modest and to lower the gaze, neither of which is clothing. You may inquire
why God specifically addresses a women's appearance more so than a man's and
seek the wisdom of such a directive instead of succumbing to frustration.peace
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Of course I am stupid and I talk without having inquired. ?How could I be that silly? It seems that I just needed your ever so wise advice to enquire. Finally it is only some thousands of people who have given the same advice before, also without taking the trouble to listen or to read or responding to the grounds I have written or said.
Dismissing out of hand and putting somebody in his or her place is far more virtuous than finding out their grounds or giving any attention to what they say. In this thread and in another one I have explained many things. But it is just damned far more comfortable to give oh so pious advice than to take into account what one does not care to take into account. Why should women not be bothered. Aren't they women? Let them pay for it.
But in spite of how stupid I am that it didn't occur to me to question or find out or reflect on the Qur'an, you still are not giving a single proof of the hijab crap from the very Qur'an. You, holy hijab worshippers, keep recycling the same old crap over and over and you do not care to read what others and I have said, and continue fancying and caressing your ungrounded but comfortable speculations on ayas from which you do not intent to extract any meaning that shakes your pretty comfort.
I am not frustrated, It simply tires triyng to explain with some people just not wanting any explanation that shakes their comfort, refusing to see such explanations, ignoring them. The tactic seems to be to wear off the opponent, but I am not going to shut up to keep hijabers in the bliss of the women having some extra duty for the male's sake and their crap temptations blabber and their crap overbearing attitudes to "undiscisciplined" females.
However, Hawk something good for you you at least have not brought in the usual
circus about feminism and all that, at least not yet.Thanks therefore for God's little blessings. And excuse if I have come down sharply. I find you particularly likeable as a forumer, and may be that is why I take the trouble of being more honest with you. Or should I be not more honest but more modest?
I do not kid myself that I will ever get any attention in thsi forum or in any other either being more honest or being more modest. Uncomgortable things usually are ignored. Good for the ignorers, may be they will never have to know in this life so why bother.
Oh and I see that many holy hijab reverers keep discovering that males and females are different. That is a great achievement, very important indeed, otherwise we might have been confused that they were delivered by their male parent. Congratulations.
Salaam
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Fare thee well,
Nice level of sarcasm.
God bless you
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Peace Huruf,
I personally think the dress code for men and women are the same, we both are to be
covered from the neck to the knees except maybe the forearms in the presence of the
opposite sex that is not related to us. But as I previously stated"You may inquire why God specifically addresses a women's appearance more so than a
man's and seek the wisdom of such a directive instead of succumbing to frustration."There may be circumstances were this dress code may relaxed due to
a task that is being performed.peace
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Salaam,
Seriously I don't understand why some people equate women's HAIR/HEAD with private parts, breasts and other women's sexually attractive body parts.
I don't understand why women's hair/head is the reason of rape in the eyes of some hijab freaks.
Seriously I don't understand why some people think that women must cover almost all parts of her body to avoid rape why men just do nothing.Does HAIR/HEAD make men arousal?
I don't understand why men can show their head/hair why women can't.
Too much male chauvinism entered in Islam.My point was
The clothing style must adjusted to the environment, with objective of survivability.The reason why there's a recommendation in Quran to 'certain dresses' is to avoid unwanted attention and increase the survivability of women.
Quran context was 7th century society in the middle east surrounded by nomadic folks.
It's a general nomadic culture everywhere in the world, due to their long time habits of 'hunter and gatherer' lifestyle, they tend to see 'everything and everyone is up for grabs'. Women, horses, livestock are item to 'gather', by force if necessary.
To the 'dwelling folks' it's called pillaging, robbery and plundering, but to them is just another day of hunting. Nomadic people doesn't have the conception of 'Private Property'.
The same culture / habits are being shown within Mongolian Nomads (Genghis Khan and His Cohorts), The Hun, The Turks (Ancient Turks), The Cossacks etc..
Thus when you're living in 10th century Mongolia (for example), please adjust your dress accordingly to the local custom (although covering head/hair is not required, as Mongolian doesn't consider hair as private part or appealing to them), don't attract any attention from the Nomads otherwise you'll run the risk of being kidnapped by Genghis Khan and his cohorts..
When you're going to the moon, don't wear Hijab!
You must wear astronaut suit ! Otherwise you'll be dead..When you're living in Polynesia.. feel free to not wearing anything except a skirt!
Like this one
http//i1.trekearth.com/photos/93287/dani_girl.jpg
It's safe enough to wear dresses like that within Polynesia region..Last but not least, your clothing style is not correlated at all with your morality...
Salam / Peace
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My point was
The clothing style must adjusted to the environment, with objective of survivability.The reason why there's a recommendation in Quran to 'certain dresses' is to avoid unwanted attention and increase the survivability of women.
Last but not least, your clothing style is not correlated at all with your morality...
Salam / Peace
Peace Sir
I have highlighted, in red, a section of your post, as you yourself have a lot of granted authority I should address you as Sir )
Where I live, in winter almost everyone runs to cover up, from head to toe, so its hijab everywhere, but in summer some women are going around in shorts so small you can see their buttocks curves, their boobs almost hanging out. Then there are others who look like Barbie dolls; shaking on thin high heels. They reveal, and attract attention, more than complete nudity would. However most "Sunnies" are going in, what you call, Hijab and even Burqa &
Since you say; Thus when you're living in 10th century Mongolia (for example), please adjust your dress accordingly ....... Last but not least, your clothing style is not correlated at all with your morality...Yess! as you say Sir, bbt! confused where do I stand ???
The reason why there's a recommendation in Quran to 'certain dresses' is to avoid unwanted attention and increase the survivability of women
Sir ! !Do you claim to have access to the higher knowledge to give us this reasoning ???
When you're going to the moon, don't wear Hijab!
You must wear astronaut suit ! Otherwise you'll be dead..Yes Sirrr! since astronaut suit covers our body more than the hijab, ;D
All we need now is The Establishmen Of The Lunar Ka"baH ( The House of ALLAAH on the Moon) O- - ->oI think that the Ka"baH is already a universal direction (which would mean that if there is another specie somewhere else in the universe that worships our Lord, then they got also a point on their "planet" which makes them to pray in the direction of the Ka"baH in Mecca)
According to this understanding, then we should make a replica of the Ka"baH on the Moon which would make us to direct in fact to the Ka"baH on the Earth, so we would have to work on some special coordinates for the replica which would make us praying in the direction of the Ka"baH of Earth?
Then it would be a moving replica? hmm?
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605684.msg334545#msg334545Lover to hear from many highly intelligent ones here yes
May ALLAAH guide all to learn of His knowledge inshaa ALLAAH
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Peace be upon thee,
And I believe the matter of 'hijab' might as well extend to men. Men are not free of the same religious responsibility of being modest when it comes to clothing. When men are around women they might think about wearing long-sleeved shirts and not too tight clothes as to reveal their muscles.
In the past it was also common for men to wear hats just for the same reason as women in islam, ie be righteous. Unfortunately, today people may regard you as strange if you don a hat, but a cap is okay so well tha is cool, however I do not look good in a cap.
Guess I suffer from the common issue of caring too much of what others think. However, I might have started to grow old enough not to care about such matters as what people think. Always wanted to don a typical cowboy hat.
Head wear has always been part of the outfit. But when we talk about islam it is taboo.
Starting to show our nakedness is a sign of demoralization however I think. And then I did not imply on headdresses but the undressing overall. What is it we want to display anyway?
God bless you
Salaam,
About the part of your post that is embolded, I remember when I was younger some 5 years ago, a man wearing a tee shirt without sleeves and short pants until the knees was asking me why don't I wear headscarf, then I proposed him to go to put his clothes on first then maybe I would wear a headscarf - I didn't really see why I had the obligation to be completely covered among persons who were walking half naked (?)
What is the reason why some men continue showing their skin and forms through tight clothes and at the same time, continue asking women not to show their skin, forms and hear? It looks like those some men do not want the rules to apply to them. What do you - members - think of this fact?
What do women should do in this kind of social environment? Should they adapt and walk also half naked not to attract the attention on them, or, should they apply the muslim rules of clothing on themselves independently of the social environment where they evolve?
(Thank you for you replys Jafar and farida, I read them after posting here. Therefore do not hesitate to add some of your ideas and understandings after this post)
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Salaam,
About the part of your post that is embolded, I remember when I was younger some 5 years ago, a man wearing a tee shirt without sleeves and short pants until the knees ......- I didn't really see why I had the obligation to be completely covered among persons who were walking half naked (?)
....., should they apply the muslim rules of clothing on themselves independently of the social environment where they evolve?
(Thank you for you replys Jafar and farida, I read them after posting here. Therefore do not hesitate to add some of your ideas and understandings after this post)
- salaam raspberry red
Haha ;D I'll tell you what happened today when I went out for a walk, my head covered in a Big scarf/duppattta. My husband he can't wait for me to get a decent hijaab, but I am hooked to posting here. Being a Swede, summers are short there, he take's every opportunity to go out in shorts to his knees. When we go out together we anyway get goats glances, from almost all here, so we avoid holding hands.
Today was even more interesting as there was a small Music concert there, and we went as we wanted to see what was going on. As we entered there was a couple among many and straight away there was a kind of nudge and the staring started. Having lived here long enough to know the local community I wanted to amuse them more(then the music concert ), so I asked hubby to hold hands, and heads held high we calmly walked past that couple, turning a few more heads in the crowd, while others sort of ducked their heads.
sun
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Peace Sir
I have highlighted, in red, a section of your post, as you yourself have a lot of granted authority I should address you as Sir )
Of course I speak on my own authority, and you speak on your own authority.. i don't see any problem here do you?
Where I live, in winter almost everyone runs to cover up, from head to toe, so its hijab everywhere,
but in summer some women are going around in shorts so small you can see their buttocks curves, their boobs almost hanging out. Then there are others who look like Barbie dolls; shaking on thin high heels. They reveal, and attract attention, more than complete nudity would. However most "Sunnies" are going in, what you call, Hijab and even Burqa &Good for you.. if you like to wear as minimum as possible clothing at any time and you will definitely be still safe as other people wear practically the same style of outfit. I might suggest Polynesian region in the pacific.
Great place, paradise like, white sandy beaches, friendly people and tropical climate thus NO WINTER..
Since you say; Thus when you're living in 10th century Mongolia (for example), please adjust your dress accordingly ....... Last but not least, your clothing style is not correlated at all with your morality...
Yess! as you say Sir, bbt! confused where do I stand ???
I don't know you tell me?
An example
In case one or few among those pretty Polynesian girls in which their regular day-to-day attire consist of hand woven skirt from grasses material planning to go to New York, then I do advise them to 'dress accordingly in accordance to local custom', in this case, usual dress of New Yorkers women.If they walk around the street of New York with those perky tits, they will definitely be arrested by New Yorker Policeman!
The same case with polynesian men..
If they walk around the street of New York with their regular attire of Penis Gourd, then they will too definitely be arrested by New Yorker Policeman!In case you don't know what "Penis Gourd" looks like
http//a.images.blip.tv/Timothyjamesdean-TimothyJamesDeanAuthorOfTEETHWelcome990.jpgSir ! !Do you claim to have access to the higher knowledge to give us this reasoning ???
Yes Sirrr! since astronaut suit covers our body more than the hijab, ;DI don't know.. what do you think? (Nonetheless I don't care actually)
And why does it matter???All we need now is The Establishmen Of The Lunar Ka"baH ( The House of ALLAAH on the Moon) O- - ->o
I think that the Ka"baH is already a universal direction (which would mean that if there is another specie somewhere else in the universe that worships our Lord, then they got also a point on their "planet" which makes them to pray in the direction of the Ka"baH in Mecca)
According to this understanding, then we should make a replica of the Ka"baH on the Moon which would make us to direct in fact to the Ka"baH on the Earth, so we would have to work on some special coordinates for the replica which would make us praying in the direction of the Ka"baH of Earth?
Then it would be a moving replica? hmm?
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605684.msg334545#msg334545Lover to hear from many highly intelligent ones here yes
I don't want to go OOT, what does the black cube which once used to housed idols situated in the middle of the desert got to do with clothing style?
Salam / Peace
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I don't know.. what do you think? (Nonetheless I don't care actually)
And why does it matter???Salam / Peace
Thank you!! Finally you know where you should stand.
I don't want to go OOT, ]
Really!!! then why do you, at any given chance, try to show African tribal naked men and women in your posts? I am sure that they do not live the way they do, so that you can flaunt their picture around, or use it as a tourist picture shot. How pathetic to invade those, who have no interest in your culture or mine.
what does the black cube which once used to housed idols situated in the middle of the desert got to do with clothing style[/b
This statement confirms your utter ignorance.
peace -
Peace Huruf,
I personally think the dress code for men and women are the same, we both are to be
covered from the neck to the knees except maybe the forearms in the presence of the
opposite sex that is not related to us. But as I previously stated"You may inquire why God specifically addresses a women's appearance more so than a
man's and seek the wisdom of such a directive instead of succumbing to frustration."There may be circumstances were this dress code may relaxed due to
a task that is being performed.peace
What is the use of repeating what I have already answered and I do not have a different answer just because you repeat it.
Salaam
Salaam
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Thank you!! Finally you know where you should stand.
Really!!! then why do you, at any given chance, try to show African tribal naked men and women in your posts? I am sure that they do not live the way they do, so that you can flaunt their picture around, or use it as a tourist picture shot. How pathetic to invade those, who have no interest in your culture or mine.
This statement confirms your utter ignorance.
peaceOn contrary, the above statement really confirms your utter IGNORANCE.
THEY ARE NOT AFRICANS!
Do you know the difference between POLYNESIANS and AFRICANS?
Go and look it up on Google or Wikipedia!
Do your research well to avoid posting such ridiculous comment.And I ASSURE YOU, "THEY DO LIVE THE WAY THEY DO". Up until today.
And unlike you, (And some other people in this forum) I see nothing wrong in the way they dress.The relations to the topic being discussed is People dresses differently all around the world.
Thus what is considered as "Appropriate clothing style" or even "Nudity" varied through time and place.And.. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MORALITY.
Dress in accordance to your environment.. God is not a fashionista..
Salam / Peace
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I still find it very difficult to believe that after all that has been said on all Quran-alone sites about the Hijab, some people can still consider it compulsory to cover their head especially women. I still see people here quoting hadith to prove their point. Would you also like to quote the strong narrations that say that the prophet married Aisha at age 9, or the ones where he slept with MAry the Copt and on the way to Medina without an actual marriage or the ones when he told people to kill the children and women of Unbelievers since they are part of them or those where he told people that sending durrod on him will help them achieve the highest position in paradise?. "Females' hair induces pheromones" "thehair of females are seductive" Rubbish!!!. The idiots who invented these laws also said that the nakedness of men starts from the navel. Are you trying to say that the chest of built men like THE ROCK or John Cena or Ryan Gosling can induce pheromones in females. These are all ridiculous aguments. What about the face of women aren't those seductive too?? Do you want to wear Niqabs. If we accept the Quran we agree and accept to leave all the Hadith-mentality behind and embrace reason and justice and equity. The hair of most men in European countries can grow longer and finer than those of most women in Africa, should the men have to cover their hair. God has not places restrictions on you if you placed unnecessary restrictions on yourself or others then you are clearly in the wrong and do not have God on your side.
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On contrary, the above statement really confirms your utter IGNORANCE.
THEY ARE NOT AFRICANS!
Do you know the difference between POLYNESIANS and AFRICANS?
Go and look it up on Google or Wikipedia!
Do your research well to avoid posting such ridiculous comment.And I ASSURE YOU, "THEY DO LIVE THE WAY THEY DO". Up until today.
And unlike you, (And some other people in this forum) I see nothing wrong in the way they dress.The relations to the topic being discussed is People dresses differently all around the world.
Thus what is considered as "Appropriate clothing style" or even "Nudity" varied through time and place.And.. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MORALITY.
Dress in accordance to your environment.. God is not a fashionista..
Salam / Peace
Peace
Thank you for correcting me and further information about POLYNESIANS. Regardless your ignorance is much greater then mine. May ALLAAH inform you about bakka/ qibla and kaba.
peace