Hijab and verse 24:31; explanation without extrapolation
-
Salaam,
Just dress modestly.
Don't wear tight jeans/pants.
Don't wear mini skirts.
Don't wear short, thin and tight shirts/blouse.
Don't wear shirts that have wide tunic,Faruq, if dress code didn't matter why would God be talking about it, or are you saying the ayats abot how believing women should dress are irrelevant and don't matter?
Salaam mmmm,
Since when did Faruq say that dress code didn't matter? Please re-read his post. He said that head-covering didn't matter.
Why mmmm? You want to see all believing women to wear Afghan traditional burqa?
I have noticed that ever since I saw you posting about women's 'dress code', you seem like you want women to cover almost all parts of their bodies, just like the traditional Muslims enforce women to do so.
Regards,
Yuliana -
Thanks for pointing out to me what Faroq said - I am sorry Faruq if I seemed harsh...As for the "burqa" I didnt say anything about headcovering, I said that there ought to be some difference in dressing if a person is aware of the ayats and wants to submit and if one has no idea about it...some people here make it sound like the ayats do not exist and we should just wear what everyone around us is wearing.
I am not for or against headcover but just think that women must take notice of what they expose and they can choose to wear or not to wear headcover depending on how they feel..
I would really like for someone to point to me hard evidence from the Q that headcover should not be at all or is forbiden to wear...AgainIm not saying that it is obligatory but left to a person to decide.... -
Peace,
From diamantinehoneybunch
Just dress modestly.
Don't wear tight jeans/pants.
Don't wear mini skirts.
Don't wear short, thin and tight shirts/blouse.
Don't wear shirts that have wide tunic,I would like to add
Lower your gaze
And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their
chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary.
They shall cover their chests, and shall not relax this code in the presence
of other than their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the
sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters,
other women, the male servants or employees whose sexual drive has been nullified, or
the children who have not reached puberty. They shall not strike their feet
when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies. All of you
shall repent to GOD, O you believers, that you may succeed.O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that
they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women)
and avoid being insulted. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.God bless
peace
-
Dress code is the same for both the sexes except for the females that an extra care shall be taken to cover their breasts. This is being taken care of by almost all women of every religion, whether they read their scripture or not. Then with regard to the ornamental code, it is specific for women not to show it out lest the evil eyes might try to rob it away even by killing. There is nothing islamic about it. It is general order for all to see for themselves if they are conscience abiding. Read the Book of conscience, then there is no religion. Quran only stands testimony to it. If only we stand high above as a model to the conscience, then the whole world would be inspired by it, and would see the Quran as their manual for such peaceful living.
-
I don't think it's the same since men are not specifically told not to show adornments as women in 2431 are told twice. Also nobody answered a simple question which is if you are sitting. in frontof your father and neighbour suddenlycomes in what would be the difference, what would you put on in order to make the difference - I assume that most people wear decent in front of their parents and not walk around half naked.
According to the Quran there should be a difference (unles your neighbour is in the category that is allowed to see adornments)
Thank. -
Salaam mmmm,
I think you should re-read the verse again and look the word except in the verse 2431 "......... except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their women, or those maintained by their oaths, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women.........
This phrase is not about dress differently but the PERMISSION to RELAX their dress code.Regards,
Yuliana -
This is not about any dress code, it is about behaviour. It does not deal with covering or uncovering except for the breasts, it is about showing off or not showing off. It is about vanity and self respect, and not about sexual mores. What the Qur'an anywhere wants to say it says it unequivocally. And here it does also say unequivocally. It seems that there is a fixation with milking a dress code from this aya, like we would try to milk a cow squeezing its tail, but what there is to mil from this aya is injunctions about behaviour. Strike the feet is about behaviour and matter what one dresses or covers or uncovers, it is the attitude an behaviour what matters.
Nevermind, I am sure the milking of the tail of the Qur'an to extract dress codes will continue unabated for as long as God's allows it and, thanks to, that muslims, quranists or otherwise, will continue swirling about women's clothing as if feminine fashion was the very kaaba.
Hijab is our life, hijab is our sacrement, holy hijab forever.
Salaam
-
How is it modest for a woman to uncover her face? Burqa is the dress of Muslim ladies since the time of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. Quranist women don't observe veil, they wear English style clothes like the immoral English ladies who have no faith and no fear of Allah Tabbarak wa Taala. Burqa is the symbol of faith and love for Allah and love for modesty, while high heels and lipstick are the symbols of Satanism.
-
How is it modest for a woman to uncover her face? Burqa is the dress of Muslim ladies since the time of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. Quranist women don't observe veil, they wear English style clothes like the immoral English ladies who have no faith and no fear of Allah Tabbarak wa Taala. Burqa is the symbol of faith and love for Allah and love for modesty, while high heels and lipstick are the symbols of Satanism.
Your sexist religion says so.
And hey, according to your Ahlul Hadith religion, it is okay to have sex with slaves or even maids right?
How many maids have you had sex with so far?
You lack sense of humanity. We don't support naked women or immodest women. You just consider women to be objects nd properties of men that must be hidden?
Why? Why do you support this kind of sexism and injustice?
I hope one day you would realize how stupid you are for what you have posted.
Even if what you said regarding women during Muhammad's time were true, God never says people must follow old traditions.Infanticide was also common during pre-Islamic time right? So according to you, infanticide must also be carried on because it was common during Islamic era?
You are full of hate.
Regards,
Yuliana, a proud ex-Sunni -
Your sexist religion says so.
my religion is Islam, which says
O Prophet (peace be upon him)! Tell your wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over themselves (Sura 33.60)Now if your religion is not Islam and you don't believe in the Pure Quran, that is your business, but don't say my religion is "sexist". What do you mean by sexist? If it is sexist to tell women to dress modestly and cover themselves as Allah Tabbarak wa Taala has ordered, then I am proud to be a sexist.
And hey, according to your Ahlul Hadith religion, it is okay to have sex with slaves or even maids right?
Thanks for going off topic. But according to Quran not Hadith it is okay to have sex with your right-hand possessions (female slaves).
Even if what you said regarding women during Muhammad's time were true, God never says people must follow old traditions.
God says
O Prophet (peace be upon him)! Tell your wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over themselves (Sura 33.60)thanks for proving Quranists don't obey God, they follow theirs own gods (Hollywood actors and musicians). Our pure Islamic women don't follow Hollywood fashion, they follow Quran and Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. If your women want to take off their clothes, that is their business, but our women are the real Islamic women who observe veil and dress properly.
-
Your sexist religion is Sunni.
You take the verse to prove that burqa is compulsory LOL.
The verse just says to lengthen outer garments, which can be coat, blouse, shirt etc.Since you believe that means sex slaves, that means women are also allowed to have sex with their slaves too?
The verse that you posted does not mention at all to cover face, hair, head, neck.
You lack rationality.
Slavery is against humanity you moronic terrorist!According to your sexist Sunni religion, the whole women's bodies are inrtimate parts. Even showing face, hair, head is equal to showing intimate parts according to your hadith religion.
Women don't need to hide their face and hair to be modest.
I pity you because of your idiocy.
Or maybe you are just a puppet of Ali Sina who pretends to be a muslim? -
Salaam,diamantinehoneybunch,
Why do you take the trouble of answering nonsense. There are trolls in the forum. This Israeel nic looks like a troll, derailing the thread to speak about things which are pure delirum of idiocy. Taking him seriously you give him an unwarranted honour.
However, that is my view, and of course, you have yours.
Salaam
-
Peace be with thee Israfeel,
Welcome back. That clothing is a matter of how you define modesty and interpret Quran when it says what must be shown. Personally I find a middle way is the most reasonable solution. While not looking like ghosts the girls do not look like prostitutes either. Full-length garments is the key. And headdresses can be an addition of modesty as I discussed before in another thread.
What is so important in showing your body anyway?
I walk around down here in middle-east with temperatures in summer of plus 40 degrees C and I wear a long-sleeved shirt and full-length pants. People in Europe and even warmer parts of US should not complain I think.
The clothes if nothing else protect against the sun.
But compared to you brother (as far as I believe) I would not consider it compulsory as there is no compulsion in religion and I do not look down on women who wear less clothing, although I can get a bit nauseated if their clothes are a bit distasteful. I think that we should not make a wanton display of our innate beauty. And I consider masking the faces of women too extreme although I would not rebuke any woman for doing so.
And as you know I do not study or believe in hadith (of Muhammad).
God bless you
-
Your sexist religion is Sunni.
You take the verse to prove that burqa is compulsory LOL.
The verse just says to lengthen outer garments, which can be coat, blouse, shirt etc.I don't see the word "lengthen" anywhere. It says
O Prophet (peace be upon him)! Tell your wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over themselves (Sura 33.60)
So stop lying on Quran. I'm quoting it right here for you. It says that believing women cast their outer garments over themselves. "Themselves" includes includes entire body. If you say "cast outer garments over themselves, except head or face" then you are changing the Quran.
Since you believe that means sex slaves, that means women are also allowed to have sex with their slaves too?
Of course not. See how ignorant you are of the Quran, it says
If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice (Sura 4.4)
See this verse about right hand possessions is clearly addressed to men. Quran is saying that a man can marry up to four women, and he can also marry right hand possession women (which are women that are captured from war and sold into slavery).
By the way, according to Hadith it is forbidden to have sex with animals, but Quran never says you can't have sex with animals. This means Hadith-rejectors allowed to have sex with animals. So how many animals you have sex with Hadith-rejector??
The verse that you posted does not mention at all to cover face, hair, head, neck.
The verse I posted said believing women cover themselves, isn't face, hair, head, neck part of women or not?
-
No wonder people hate Islam.
Because of people like Israfeel.
Bro, the permission for polygamy up to four wives is only in the case of orphans.
God gives people brain. How can you have sex with animals you moron?
I don't know whose translation you used. In Free-Minds translation, it contains the word LENGTHEN.
And peaceful Qur'an aloners have discussed about for countless of times.
And the verse 43 that you posted is not about having sex with but marrying them.
And your hadiths also don't tell either electric eel is haram or halal.
-
Peace be with thee Israfeel,
Welcome back.
thanks
That clothing is a matter of how you define modesty and interpret Quran when it says what must be shown. Personally I find a middle way is the most reasonable solution. While not looking like ghosts the girls do not look like prostitutes either. Full-length garments is the key. And headdresses can be an addition of modesty as I discussed before in another thread.
What is so important in showing your body anyway?
I walk around down here in middle-east with temperatures in summer of plus 40 degrees C and I wear a long-sleeved shirt and full-length pants. People in Europe and even warmer parts of US should not complain I think.
The clothes if nothing else protect against the sun.
But compared to you brother (as far as I believe) I would not consider it compulsory as there is no compulsion in religion and I do not look down on women who wear less clothing, although I can get a bit nauseated if their clothes are a bit distasteful. I think that we should not make a wanton display of our innate beauty. And I consider masking the faces of women too extreme although I would not rebuke any woman for doing so.
And as you know I do not study or believe in hadith (of Muhammad).
God bless you
The Quran says that O ye Children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover your shame, as well as to be an adornment to you. But the raiment of righteousness,- that is the best. Such are among the Signs of Allah, that they may receive admonition! (Sura 7.27)
According to Islam, clothing serves three purposes 1. to cover your shame, 2. to be an adornment for you, and 3. to instill righteousness.
Now if you look at the non-Islamic society like Europe, you see that those people are wearing very little clothes and so they are not righteous. They value nakedness and make sculptures of naked bodies which they decorate their streets with. They put billboards of naked women which even young children are being exposed to. It is very evil what is going on. But Islam wants us to be modest and to wear clothes for that purpose. When you see our women covered in black veil you are reminded of the pure and pious women of the past, like Maryam (peace be upon her) and Fatima daughter of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon them). And similarly, when you see the Muslim men in long white robes and white kufi, you are reminded of the ancient prophets mentioned in Quran.
Now when you see the Quranist man, he is dressed like a European, wearing short shorts and t-shirt, uncovered head, no beard, and no Noor emanating from him. And when you look at the Quranist women, she is wearing miniskirt or bikini and lipstick and high heels. So this is a clear difference between us Muslims and you Quranists.
-
Where did the manner God is expecting out of us go?
Despite having different and conservative or extremist opinions there is no use of bursting out in bad language like this.
There are maybe even former Sunnis here who shared some of his thinking so it could be like cursing your previous self.
Remember there is a human behind the nickname Israfeel and so far he behaves well despite his controversial ideas about religion. He says this or that about Quranists but he is at least fairly polite in doing so.
He has a preconception that people want to look like Hollywood stars and he is entitled to his current state of mind. Putting myself in his place I can understand why he thinks some Quranist women seem like half-naked Hollywood stars and that Satan is driving them.
No matter of religious view most people are going right to Hell and the derailing here is just another testament to that. This is just the behavior God warns about in His Book and which we must refrain from even for those we consider our "enemies".
It does not matter if you are believing in God or not as long as you fail at parameter number three of the 'big criteria' you are most likely in bad trouble, ie by not being a righteous person. Yes, being misinformed is one thing. I think people can go to Heaven anyways as long as they fulfill the three criteria Belief in God, belief in eternal existence and being a righteous person. Sadly the third parameter many people forget about and superior knowledge in Quran or any other book cannot solve that unless the person lives as he teaches or is taught.
Perhaps Israfeel is here to test your Faith. See it that way.
God bless you that you may show the right islamic nature
-
No wonder people hate Islam.
Because of people like Israfeel.
Bro, the permission for polygamy up to four wives is only in the case of orphans.
God gives people brain. How can you have sex with animals you moron?
I don't know whose translation you used. In Free-Minds translation, it contains the word LENGTHEN.
And peaceful Qur'an aloners have discussed about for countless of times.
And the verse 43 that you posted is not about having sex with but marrying them.
And your hadiths also don't tell either electric eel is haram or halal.
Where in Quran it says bestiality is forbidden? Only Hadith has forbidden bestiality, not Quran. So if you reject Hadith and follow Quran, then you can have sex with animals. Is that logical? This why we need Hadith.
The eel is not a fish so we can't eat it. Hadith only gives permission for fish.
-
Salaam Israfeel,
I reckon there is a slight problem with your thinking. You see people as stereotypes rather than individuals. You saw my expression about my own clothing and I am following the Quran alone.
This view of women in mini-skirts who consider them to be "Quranist" is a bit extreme. I doubt very few women "Quranists" dress like this.
You see me, I believe too that clothing is a help to remain righteous and modest and I am perhaps in this category although I prefer to call myself simply muslim.
But I share your view of the Western vulgarity and undressing to be inspired by Shaytaan and that it is demoralizing for the whole society and is spreading like cancer all over the world.
God bless you
-
Since when did Qur'an-aloners wear immodest clothes dear Israfeel?
You keep assuming and accusing Quran-aloners. You slander Qur'an aloners that Qur'an aloners in general are immodest, wear very little clothes etc.
Many of us are against that.