What is Islam?
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Peace muslims,
I apparently cannot get through to you, maybe we have a language barrier.
I make an easy sentences like "so and so is rational according to some" and you do not
understand such a simple sentence, how can that be?Did you say Quran equals fire was allegorical? Your posts are long, meandering,
and contain pictures so I may have missed your point in that regard. Why can't
the Quran just be the word of God, what's with the esoterics anyway?God bless
peace
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Peace muslims,
I apparently cannot get through to you, maybe we have a language barrier.
I make an easy sentences like "so and so is rational according to some" and you do not
understand such a simple sentence, how can that be?Did you say Quran equals fire was allegorical? Your posts are long, meandering,
and contain pictures so I may have missed your point in that regard. Why can't
the Quran just be the word of God, what's with the esoterics anyway?God bless
peace
Salam hawk99,
Okay, maybe you do not understand what is a "bracket", and your objection is not so serious to be taken into consideration.
( ) vs. =
God bless you. pr
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The Heavens and the Earth shall obey Adam
Salam
He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth, and He directed Himself to the heaven, so He made them complete seven heavens, and He knows all things. And when your Lord said to the angels, I am going to place in the earth a khalif, who shall know the earth and heavens as taught by Allah.
Please note the bold parts above and write your ante to it.
Salaam,
RED If you refer to a verse then please give the verse numbers it makes it easy for the readers especially if you use a translation.
I guess you are referring here to 229 and part of 230GREEN yes I know the bold part, it says A khalif and not MY khalif
BLUE I do not understand what you meant here.
And to your next doubt if I actually understand what I am saying, read below
GREEN Not sure what you think I am doubting, I am very certain of what I am saying.
BLUE typo?
And He taught adam all the names in the heavens and the earth. Then presented them to the angels - which knowledge they never possessed.
And when Allah said to the angels Make obeisance to adam; they did obeisance.
The angels shall obey adam's command by Allah's leave
BLUE I think you misunderstood.
Allah commands almalaikat to do sujud to Adam, that does not mean that Adam can command almalaikat.Did you ever commanded an malaikat? If so I like to know how and what you commandd them.
even as the most powerful eight of them carry the entire domain of Allah's heavens and earth, the arsh. Allah created the domain of the earth and the heavens for adam and not for Himself, for He is needless of what we need or any of His own created things.
GREEN you did not give me an ayaat for this.
And ofcourse Allah is needless of any thing.
First we complete our understanding on this one, that the heavens and the earth shall obey adam, the possessor of its knowledge by the leave of Allah before going to your next part of the post.
They obey Allah and ONLY Allah. I really do not understand how you understand it.
Can you give me answer to this question
Allah commands the sun to rise from the east can you command it to rise from the west?Besides this my initial comment was on "Allah has His khalifa on earth", do you still have the same understanding on this?
Salaam,
Bender -
Salam Bender,
It is true, the specific words are not in the Qur'an, but it's descriptive definitions are everywhere in the Qur'an. Therefore, it is merely how human use their "rational thoughts" to understand how Allah represent Himself to human beings. To simplified for beginner students to understand Islam, and who are deaf, dumb and blind to understand reality. Is this wrong and are we prohibited from using our rational thoughts?
Salaamun alayka,
Sorry did not understand your point.
Salaam,
Bender -
Salam hawk99,
Okay, maybe you do not understand what is a "bracket", and your objection is not so serious to be taken into consideration.
( ) vs. =
Apparently we have a barrier of some sort, symbols, numerology, hidden meanings and
mysterious esoteric communications have no value to me at this point in time. handshakemay God bless you
peace
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Apparently we have a barrier of some sort, symbols, numerology, hidden meanings and
mysterious esoteric communications have no value to me at this point in time. handshakemay God bless you
peace
Salam hawk99,
Understood, I will try my best to avoid using the "(<a href="https//www.google.com/search?q=what+is+bracket&oq=what+is+bracket&aqs=chrome..69i57j0j69i60j0l2.467j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=what+is+a+bracket">bracket</a>".
Should Muslims ignore the following signs?
He causes to grow for you
thereby the crops
olives
palm trees
grapevines
and from all the fruitsIndeed in that
is a sign
for a people
who give thoughtAnd He has subjected for you
the night
and day
and the sun
and moon
and the stars
are subjected
by His commandIndeed in that
are signs
for a people
who reasonAnd whatever
He multiplied for you
on the earth
of varying colorsIndeed in that
is a sign
for a people
who rememberShould Muslims ignore all the signs in <a href="http//quran.com/55/10-78">Sura ar-Rahman</a>?
All the "<a href="http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=Ayy#(216441)">Signs</a>" in this link?
Should Muslims ignore the implications of the following ayaat?
None can dispute about the Signs of Allah but the Unbelievers.
All the above might have some sort of symbols, numerology, hidden meanings and mysterious esoteric communications that have no value for some Muslims; at this point in time.
Just asking. handshake
God bless. pr
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Salaam brother hawk99,
Basically you are right, the main points are there and all it takes is some rationality. However, it is still difficult to interpret the original meaning of certain passages from the Arabic script. Now, as you said, it may be irrelevant for our salvation as long as we use sensible thinking and acting. Like I have said many times before, the fundamental criteria for salvation are
- Belief in God
- The eternal existence
- Righteous living (definition easily understood from context)
This is also what I consider Islam.
God bless you -
An open discussion on the issue of salvation
This private relationship between man and his Creator is essentially founded on the idea of salvation. Salvation is common to all religions, even to Buddhism which does not acknowledge the existence of God. The idea of salvation was born out of the belief that man's sojourn on earth was one of bondage. How to extricate himself from that bondage thus became the main object of his life.
Islam on the other hand, is neither such a relationship between man and God, nor is it characterized by the experience of an individual of a subjective nature, but is essentially a "Code of Life," regulating the conduct of affairs concerning the individual as well as the collective life of human beings. Secondly, it does not consider man?s life on earth a period of bondage in. which case the .idea of salvation does not arise.
On the contrary, having assigned to man a very high position in the universe, Islam expects him to take up the challenge of life boldly in order to harness the forces of nature for the development of his own self and the larger community of mankind.
The fallacy of considering Islam a religion springs from the fact that absolute "faith" in God is of fundamental importance to it, as it is supposed to be more or less so in all religions, past and present, but it is not only the " faith" in God that should serve as a criterion in arriving at a correct estimate of one or the other. The real question we should be concerned with is, what is the concept of God which is supposed to be the common factor?
...
Comparison
A comparative study of religion or madhhab, and din, should help us understand the vital and fundamental characteristics of each and the differences between the two
- Every follower of a madhhab is satisfied that he has established a communion with the Almighty, and the objective of each individual is his own salvation.
The aim of din on the other hand is the welfare and progress of all mankind, and the character and constitution of a society indicates whether or not it is founded upon the Divine Law; <a href="http//www.tolueislam.org/Parwez/ICR/ICR_20.htm">Islam A Challenge To Religion</a>
Other <a href="http//www.tolueislam.org/Parwez/ICR/ICR_9.htm">The Quranic Concept of Salvation</a>
Moreover, in the Quran, the emphasis is on the positive content of salvation. It is not conceived as a negation of pain and liberation from evil. It consists in the sense of fulfilment, the feeling of realisation and the thrill of expansion. Man is endowed with a number of potentialities. By developing these he reaches his full stature and qualifies for still higher stages awaiting him. Man must discover in what direction his self can develop and then he must create the conditions, physical as well as social, which favour the development. His main task in this life is to develop his self by conquering the forces of nature and employing them for the development of mankind
He is indeed successful who causeth his self to grow, and he is indeed a failure who stunteth it (91 9-10).
The primary function of din is the development of human personality. It determines man's outlook on life and makes life meaningful to him. It aims at the transformation of man's character by organizing his desires into a harmonious system of living. To the extent that it succeeds in this aim, it eliminates the sources of internal conflict and enables man to live at peace with himself and at peace with his environment. Success and happiness are basically the fruits of a genuine personal conviction. But din has its social side as well. It is concerned with man as he exists in a network of social relationship. It does not isolate man from his social setting ; rather, it brings him closer to his fellow-beings. It has a meaning for man as an individual; but it has a far richer meaning for him as a member of a social group. Din leads man to the realization that he can develop his potentialities only by co-operating with his fellow men in the attainment of common ends.
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We do accept your comment. May Allah shower us His Blessing.
Quote from DrGm on Yesterday at 123206 AM
he last day.But I am looking for an answer for which I asked for Reoply # 104
You Wrote
<<<<<......>>>>>- Mohammed is a messenger and the seal of the prophets. moreover i do not believe, Adam.. Nuh.. Aad.. Ibrahim..Musa..Isa..Mohammed.. have any direct blood line, they are examples in the path of peace for humankind. every believer in the path of peace are the descendants of prophets, messengers, noblemen, witnesses, righteous, martyrs.. Allah is all knowing
<<<....>>>>>
Could you please explain further "moreover i do not believe, Adam.. Nuh.. Aad.. Ibrahim..Musa..Isa..Mohammed.. have any direct blood line, they are examples in the path of peace for humankind"...
In fact those Prophets have lived and shown the Right Path right ?. Regarding blood line its agreed. There are some sects claims that their fore ...fore fathers..fore fathers belongs to prophet hood etc. That forms a kind of Hadith which you and I discard straightaway.
I kindly asking whats your stand on "moreover i do not believe.. Adam....."
peace brother,
my stand? there is no more to add. or do not know whether i understand your question.
peace.
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Salaam brother hawk99,
Basically you are right, the main points are there and all it takes is some rationality. However, it is still difficult to interpret the original meaning of certain passages from the Arabic script. Now, as you said, it may be irrelevant for our salvation as long as we use sensible thinking and acting. Like I have said many things before, the fundamental criteria for salvation are
- Belief in God
- The eternal existence
- Righteous living (definition easily understood from context)
This is also what I consider Islam.
God bless youPeace Man of Faith,
Your understanding and insight of what is required for salvation is well documented in this
forum and is much appreciated and testament to your good character. I thank you.God bless
peace
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Salam hawk99,
Understood, I will try my best to avoid using the "(<a href="https//www.google.com/search?q=what+is+bracket&oq=what+is+bracket&aqs=chrome..69i57j0j69i60j0l2.467j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=what+is+a+bracket">bracket</a>".
Should Muslims ignore the following signs?
Should Muslims ignore all the signs in <a href="http//quran.com/55/10-78">Sura ar-Rahman</a>?
All the "<a href="http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=Ayy#(216441)">Signs</a>" in this link?
Should Muslims ignore the implications of the following ayaat?
None can dispute about the Signs of Allah but the Unbelievers.
All the above might have some sort of symbols, numerology, hidden meanings and mysterious esoteric communications that have no value for some Muslims; at this point in time.
Just asking. handshake
God bless. pr
Peace muslims,
I sincerely have difficulty understanding your point, and I am in no way intending to be
offensive, maybe someone can paraphrase what you are trying to say, or are you asking
should muslims ignore the Quran?God bless
peace
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Peace muslims,
I sincerely have difficulty understanding your point, and I am in no way intending to be
offensive, maybe someone can paraphrase what you are trying to say, or are you asking
should muslims ignore the Quran?God bless
peace
Salam hawk99,
Very well said.
God bless. handshake
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What does it take to move Islam from "Religion" to "Deen"?
peace,
those? who thought to make 'deen' a movement/group, created religion.
now, a proposal for a movement /group to make 'religion' into deen.
where as
2856 - It is true thou wilt not be able to guide every one, whom thou lovest;
1043 - but can you guide the blind, even though they see not?
2781 - Nor can you lead the blind out of their error
heads of movement/religion/government/organisation
1197 - Unto Pharaoh and his chiefs but they followed the command of Pharaoh and the command of Pharaoh was no right
2079 - Pharaoh led his people astray instead of leading them right.
when we become part of group
4354 - ..and they obeyed him. Indeed, they were a people defiantly disobedient
the path of peace is for individual, our prophets, messengers stood firm in their covenant to God and by the leave of Allah lived their life as an example in the path of peace they wish for. this example united the wishful believers in God and His government.
a prophet/messenger is for the believers who need guidance towards Allah. this believers are always there right from the days of Adam till today, till the last day. a messenger is chosen for this believers for salvation if need arise by the leave of Allah.
these believers are known only by Allah. His grace removes them from their agony.
peace.
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peace,
those? who thought to make 'deen' a movement/group, created religion.
now, a proposal for a movement /group to make 'religion' into deen.
where as
2856 - It is true thou wilt not be able to guide every one, whom thou lovest;
1043 - but can you guide the blind, even though they see not?
2781 - Nor can you lead the blind out of their error
heads of movement/religion/government/organisation
1197 - Unto Pharaoh and his chiefs but they followed the command of Pharaoh and the command of Pharaoh was no right
2079 - Pharaoh led his people astray instead of leading them right.
when we become part of group
4354 - ..and they obeyed him. Indeed, they were a people defiantly disobedient
the path of peace is for individual, our prophets, messengers stood firm in their covenant to God and by the leave of Allah lived their life as an example in the path of peace they wish for. this example united the wishful believers in God and His government.
a prophet/messenger is for the believers who need guidance towards Allah. this believers are always there right from the days of Adam till today, till the last day. a messenger is chosen for this believers for salvation if need arise by the leave of Allah.
these believers are known only by Allah. His grace removes them from their agony.
peace.
Salam DrGm,
What is wrong with "benefiting humanity" or even a "group to benefit humanity"?
Peace.
There is no religion and it is not about to spread Islam, since Islam is not a religion. It is about to spread peace, harmony and unity in the society. It's about benefiting humanity, kindness to His creation and giving to relatives. This is how people from different backgrounds and traditions are able to accept Islam by our Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Unconditional acceptance (respect) of world religious practices and balancing what is just to every living creatures. This is "Din of Islam".
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Proven method.
How difficult for someone to dispute when it is not about Religion of Islam, but about Deen of Islam; ie. benefiting humanity, kindness to His creation and giving to relatives. When it is about to spread peace, harmony and unity in the society. When it is about <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335750#msg335750">unconditional freedom</a> in matters of faith in unequivocal terms. Anyone can accept this Deen.
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peace,
the last ayat revealed- one meaning agreed.
another meaning when a god-fearing man finds Quran as his only guide for salvation, then God's sign to him confirms to strengthen his belief "today I perfected/completed for you your path and My favor on you and chosen for you peace as way of life;"
peace.
Peace DrGm,
According to mmkhan, the you in 5/3 is plural i.e., meaning group, therefore ayat 5/3
is not referring to an individual but to a group. see link belowhttp//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335670#msg335670
God bless
peace
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He has made plain to you <-- What is Islam
of the Din (l-dni)
what He enjoined upon Nuh
and that which We have revealed to you
and that which We enjoined upon Ibrahim
and Musa
and Isa
that keep to obedience <-- prostrate to Allah
and be not divided therein <-- prostrate to Adam (<a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335753#msg335753">7172</a> from many nations to oneSay "He has power
to send torment on you
from above
or from under your feet
or to cover you with confusion in party strife
and make you to taste
the violence of one another."See how variously We explain the Ayat
so that they may understand.
(<a href="http//quran.com/6/65">665</a>The Qur'an Alone or Allah Alone is no use for our salvation...
The example of those
who were entrusted with the Torah
and then did not take it on
is like that
of a donkey
who carries volumes
Wretched is the example of the people
who deny
the signs of Allah
And Allah does not guide
the wrongdoing people
(<a href="http//quran.com/62/5">625</a>And whoever seeks a "dnan" (ا other than Islam
it will NEVER be accepted of him
and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers
(<a href="http//quran.com/3/85">385</a>Therefore, any time spent on other than the Deen of Islam is wasted.
It keeps us busy till the end of our life, but gets us to nowhere. (<a href="http//quran.com/18/103-106">18103-106</a> -
Salaam,
RED If you refer to a verse then please give the verse numbers it makes it easy for the readers especially if you use a translation.
I guess you are referring here to 229 and part of 230GREEN yes I know the bold part, it says A khalif and not MY khalif
I do not use anyone's translation. What are the differences between the two by the usages 1) A khalif and 2) My khalif. What are their functions?
BLUE I think you misunderstood.
Allah commands almalaikat to do sujud to Adam, that does not mean that Adam can command almalaikat.Is it quite possible you could have misunderstood while judging others. Definitely each one's understanding should be different and in each one his understanding varies between different moments.
Did you ever commanded an malaikat? If so I like to know how and what you commandd them.
Before that if only you had pondered the meanings of 297, 298 and the Malayika mentioned therein and the makayikas mentioned in 4131 & 32, you would have turned to Allah to pose this question and not to me. Surely He guides whom He wills. Unless you believe in Malayika, after belief in Allah and the Last Day, there is no way to understand the Book even and cannot believe in the prophets too. 2177. Believing in the Malayika is third pre-requisite to strengthen our IMAN.
This place as become too crowded and distracting. I think we meet again at some place where there is less crowd.
Salam