Non performers of As-Salaat are not true believers
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Are you saying whenever wa-idh is used, that's the first time for anything involved in that verse? If so, please explain/prove. If not, then this is just a repetition.
In languages every word signifies specific meanings. "Iz" time adverb refers to the point in time when an act-incident-accident-happening-command-promulgation surfaces for the people. It does not refer to the timeline prior to it. It is not a time adverb of frequency-how often. It is specific and exclusive to information about what happened after that point in time.
You will not find this time adverb used in any other manner in Qur'aan.
First occurrence in 230
Know the history of the point in time when your Sustainer Lord had said to the Angles;
"Be informed; I am placing-declaring Adam in the Earth as self-governor enjoying freedom-discretion-free will of self rule-decision-governance". -
In languages every word signifies specific meanings. "Iz" time adverb refers to the point in time when an act-incident-accident-happening-command-promulgation surfaces for the people. It does not refer to the timeline prior to it. It is not a time adverb of frequency-how often. It is specific and exclusive to information about what happened after that point in time.
You will not find this time adverb used in any other manner in Qur'aan.
First occurrence in 230
Know the history of the point in time when your Sustainer Lord had said to the Angles;
"Be informed; I am placing-declaring Adam in the Earth as self-governor enjoying freedom-discretion-free will of self rule-decision-governance".Saaamun alayka,
I like to fully understand what you are claiming regarding 230.
a) Allah for the first time in history said something.
b) Allah for the first time in history said something to almalaikat.
c) Allah for the first time in history said to almalaikat that he is plaing a khalifa on earth.
d) something elseif d then please clarify.
thank you,
Bender -
Saaamun alayka,
I like to fully understand what you are claiming regarding 230.
a) Allah for the first time in history said something.
b) Allah for the first time in history said something to almalaikat.
c) Allah for the first time in history said to almalaikat that he is plaing a khalifa on earth.
d) something elseif d then please clarify.
thank you,
Bendera) Allah the Exalted when-a certain point in time said the narrated particular information to Angels they had responded saying---------.
It does not mean that He the Exalted spoke for the first time in history or spoke for the first time to Angels. But that particular statement is said for the first time. It is one time solitary occurrence in history. -
In languages every word signifies specific meanings. "Iz" time adverb refers to the point in time when an act-incident-accident-happening-command-promulgation surfaces for the people. It does not refer to the timeline prior to it. It is not a time adverb of frequency-how often. It is specific and exclusive to information about what happened after that point in time.
You will not find this time adverb used in any other manner in Qur'aan.
First occurrence in 230
Know the history of the point in time when your Sustainer Lord had said to the Angles;
"Be informed; I am placing-declaring Adam in the Earth as self-governor enjoying freedom-discretion-free will of self rule-decision-governance".A time adverb about time, will wonders never cease. How does that relate to 'act-incident-accident-happening-command-promulgation' happening for the 'first time ever' in the history of the universe?...At the most one could say the event is unique, as is every event really...but the content itself? Very difficult to prove given all the occurrences in the quran of said phrase, unless one believes that lack of mention anywhere else is somehow evidence/proof.
4326 And when Abraham said to his father and his people, "Indeed, I am disassociated from that which you worship"
one part of this is the content, one part is the 'unique' event etc. Prove that it was the first time ever in the history of the universe a guided person/prophet/whatever said this content? Just because one claims it isn't mentioned anywhere else does not mean proof. Just because wa idh is used doesn't make it a first time ever occurrence, it simply means 'and when' x happened, y was said/done/etc. There is no need to complicate things using one phrase as a font pouring out wisdom by the bucketloads on everything else in the same sentence; one can read and understand it as is. Everyone can understand 'And when Mazhar created the thread about salat, many people posted on it'...instead of wa idh being the end all be all of everything that one wants to wring out of a verse to suit their fancy = it was the first/only time Mazhar ever created a thread about salat in the history of the universe, and many people posted on it. It is an assumption, not proof.
But that particular statement is said for the first time. It is one time solitary occurrence in history.
Wa idh isn't proving that it was the first time ever in history that Allah spoke a particular statement for the only time ever, God help us. It is simply stating 'and when x happened'. -
Salam,
(i) Only Deen approved in the sight of Allah(swt) is Islam for all times (Quran ? 319 refers)
(ii) Whatever in the heavens and the earth follows the approved Deen. (Quran ? 383 refers)
(iii) The same Deen which was enjoined upon Prophet Nuh(PBUH) was re-directed to Porphet Ibrahim, Moosa, Eissa and finally Prophet Ahmad (Peace be upon them all) (Quran ? 4213 refers)
(iv) The guidance bestowed upon Prophet Noah (PBUH) was alike to Prophet Ibrahim and others (PBUT) (Quran- 684 refers)
(v) Those who are among the observant of Salat and Zakat are among the fraternity of the approved Deen. (Quran ? 911 refers)
(vi) Everybody in the past had been commanded to serve Allah, with utter sincerity, devoting themselves exclusively to Him, and observe Salat and Zakah, as that is the approved Deen. (Quran ? 985 refers)Given the above, to the best of my acumen I understand that Salat was enjoined upon all the Prophets and not only starting from Prophet Ibrahim(PBUH).
Salam!
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savage_carrot At the most one could say the event is unique, as is every event really...but the content itself?
The content of the issue under discussion is about a unique event. And unique means being the only one of a kind; limited to a particular person or thing.
If it is not accepted as unique, then positive evidence is required to show it did happen or was practiced in timeline before Ibrahim alahissalam. In the absence of such evidence; its uniqueness cannot be challenged.
Hadith mongers are the exception who imagine Ka'aba was raised by Nuh alahissalam. -
Peace,
"My Lord, make me one who consistently observes the Contact Prayers (Salat),
and also my children. Our Lord, please answer my prayers.Does anybody know
Which prophets/messengers asked God to have them consistently observes the Contact
Prayers before Abraham.Adam (Adam)
Idris (Enoch)
Nuh (Noah)
Hud (Eber)
Saleh
Ibrahim (Abraham)
Lut (Lot)
Isma'il (Ishmael)
Is-haq (Isaac)
Ya'qub (Jacob)
Yusuf (Joseph)
Ayyub (Job)
Shu'aib (Jethro
Harun (Aaron)
Musa (Moses)
Dawud (David)
Sulayman (Solomon)
Ilyas (Elijah / Elias)
Al-Yasa' (Elisha)
Yunus (Jonah / Jonas)
Dhul-Kifl (Ezekiel
Zakariyya (Zechariah / Zecharias)
Yahya (John the Baptist)
Isa (Jesus)
Muhammad (Praiseworthy)
God bless
peace
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God does not intend to complicate every issue for us as some members here do.
God does not want a "religion" to be a burden for us.But,
Salat is institutionalized to help us remember God 5 times a day, and keep the time cycle while performing the Contact Prayer so we can purify ourselves and remind us of God alone, so we do not incur in idol worshiping.
Certainly God does not need any of our actions or rituals, but they are for the nourishment of our souls.
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The content of the issue under discussion is about a unique event. And unique means being the only one of a kind; limited to a particular person or thing.
If it is not accepted as unique, then positive evidence is required to show it did happen or was practiced in timeline before Ibrahim alahissalam. In the absence of such evidence; its uniqueness cannot be challenged.
Hadith mongers are the exception who imagine Ka'aba was raised by Nuh alahissalam.What did you think I meant by unique? Every event is the same since the history of the universe; unlimited to anything? Where is the evidence for the assertion it was the 'first ever performance ever'? After using peculiar translations and insistence on a two word phrase having all the answers, what's left? Salat isn't mentioned before Ibrahim so it must not exist? People before Ibrahim were damned/exempt for God knows what reason; they were following some other kind of system because apparently Nuh was a prophet who did things...differently. He was unique in the history of prophethood, unique meaning the only one of a kind.
Thank you ansmeh1998 for the verses.
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Where is the evidence for the assertion it was the 'first ever performance ever'? After using peculiar translations and insistence on a two word phrase having all the answers, what's left? Salat isn't mentioned before Ibrahim so it must not exist?
No, that is not merely a two word phrase. The ayah is describing complete history. And everything related is unique, unprecedented in earlier history.
Time adverb is associated with the construction of building which Allah the Exalted owns and calls it "My House".
Construction of "My House" is associated with Ibrahim alahissalam and his son Ismail alahissalam.
Thereby people were directed to stand for-institute As-Salat.
Ibrahim alahissalam and his son Ismail alahissalam were put under an obligation to maintain the House of Allah.
People before Ibrahim were damned/exempt for God knows what reason; they were following some other kind of system because apparently Nuh was a prophet who did things...differently. He was unique in the history of prophethood, unique meaning the only one of a kind.
022.067
YUSUFALI To every People have We appointed rites and ceremonies which they must follow let them not then dispute with thee on the matter, but do thou invite (them) to thy Lord for thou art assuredly on the Right Way.
PICKTHAL Unto each nation have We given sacred rites which they are to perform; so let them not dispute with thee of the matter, but summon thou unto thy Lord. Lo! thou indeed followest right guidance.
SHAKIR To every nation We appointed acts of devotion which they observe, therefore they should not dispute with you about the matter and call to your Lord; most surely you are on a right way.Iebra'heim and Iesma'eile prayed while constructing the House of Allah
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.128p.gif
And cause the demonstration for observation of our formal procedures-protocols-rites; and kindly turn in mercy towards us.
002.128
YUSUFALI "Our Lord! make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy (Will), and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL Our Lord! And make us submissive unto Thee and of our seed a nation submissive unto Thee, and show us our ways of worship, and relent toward us. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Relenting, the Merciful.
SHAKIR Our Lord! and make us both submissive to Thee and (raise) from our offspring a nation submitting to Thee, and show us our ways of devotion and turn to us (mercifully), surely Thou art the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful -
ansmeh1998
Salam,
Did you not peep into Hell-Prison? Therein people are also saying something about Salaat.
I peeped into Hell-Prison, didn't get a t-shirt but have some comments.
7019 Indeed, man was created anxious.
7020 When adversity touches him he is miserable.
7021 And when good touches him he is stingy.
7022 Except for those who make the contact prayer.
7023 Who always observe their contact prayer.
7024 And those who set aside part of their wealth.
7025 For the seeker and the denied.
7026 And those who believe in the Day of Judgment.
7027 And those who are fearful of the retribution of their Lord.
7028 The retribution of their Lord is not to be taken for granted.
7029 And those who keep covered their private parts.
7030 Except around their spouses or those maintained by their oaths, there is no blame.
7031 Whoever seeks anything beyond this, they are the transgressors.
7032 And those who look after what they have been entrusted to and to their pledges.
7033 And those who uphold their testimonies.
7034 And those who maintain their contact prayer.
7035 They will be honored in gardens.Does this go to show anywhere that certain people living before a time period were exempt from these things that will land us into Hell-Prison? Was man created anxious only after Ibrahim? Was salat denied those before so that they could remain miserable during adversity because, well why not. Hell-Prisons need to be populated after all or they're just for show.
7441 About the criminals.
7442 "What has caused you to be in the scorching heat?"
7443 They said "We were not as those who made the contact prayer."
7444 "And we did not feed the poor person."
7445 "And we used to participate with those who spoke falsehood."
7446 "And we used to deny the Day of Judgment."
7447 "Until the certainty came to us."Is the criminal element of Hell-Prison only from a certain time period? Are these criminals from a more enlightened time in the history of the world? There are plenty of other passages to suggest, no of course not, but lets just call it a unique time period in the history of the world when humanity was sent prophets with different/lacking concepts. If it was something like a minute change okay, but this is salat we're talking about, a core concept...and that wasn't presented to humanity before a certain time period? What the Hell-Prison is this?
People the world over universally have had guidance through the ages in different ways which can be clearly seen when different cultures of different time periods are studied which are similar to the core concepts present in the quran. Yet, we manage to create more differences by insisting on special salat and for a certain people only. Doesn't matter if this soul saving special salat is highly geographical in nature or dependent on the same things that we might in other places eschew as unreliable. Whole contingents of people were doomed from the start because they didn't have special salat OR they got a free pass, yay. The Eskimo's in Nuh's time had their blubber after all, they didn't need an intuitive or universal salat either, let alone this special salat. They were created anxious with no salat to relieve them. And today? Why, let them have internet or cake. The discrepancies that are created are done away with, a different time, a different people, a different prophet, who cares damned or exempt...humanity is different today.
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022.067
YUSUFALI To every People have We appointed rites and ceremonies which they must follow let them not then dispute with thee on the matter, but do thou invite (them) to thy Lord for thou art assuredly on the Right Way.
So do you agree that the concept of salat can be universal for every people, or is this particular special salat which you call time bound protocol etc the final true and only salat since Ibrahim and must be followed by everyone after for salvation? -
a) Allah the Exalted when-a certain point in time said the narrated particular information to Angels they had responded saying---------.
It does not mean that He the Exalted spoke for the first time in history or spoke for the first time to Angels. But that particular statement is said for the first time. It is one time solitary occurrence in history.Salaamun alayka,
You said a but you meant c? Or am I misunderstanding you?
Anyway, can you give me your understanding on the red part of the next ayaat
2010Thx!
Bender -
So do you agree that the concept of salat can be universal for every people, or is this particular special salat which you call time bound protocol etc the final true and only salat since Ibrahim and must be followed by everyone after for salvation?
For each nation not humanity. There lies the difference.
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Quote from savage_carrot on Today at 020327 AM
So do you agree that the concept of salat can be universal for every people, or is this particular special salat which you call time bound protocol etc the final true and only salat since Ibrahim and must be followed by everyone after for salvation?For each nation not humanity. There lies the difference.
I said every people so is it yes, no, maybe, the former, the latter? -
I said every people so is it yes, no, maybe, the former, the latter?
To each nation denotes respectively, rites individualised. Like no nation before Ibrahim alahissalam were required to perform Hajj of the House of Allah the Exalted since it was not on ground in those days.
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To each nation denotes respectively, rites individualised. Like no nation before Ibrahim alahissalam were required to perform Hajj of the House of Allah the Exalted since it was not on ground in those days.
Do the Hell-Prison denizens complain of not doing Hajj thus ending up in Hell-Prison? Kaaba/hajj has been discussed here for ages with reasonable non traditional explanations. If you wish to stick to your guns, go ahead.
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Do the Hell-Prison denizens complain of not doing Hajj thus ending up in Hell-Prison? Kaaba/hajj has been discussed here for ages with reasonable non traditional explanations. If you wish to stick to your guns, go ahead.
Origin not agreed.
Agreed As-salat is mandatory; non performers are not true believers.
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peace Mazhar,
peace Mazhar,
These comments are with regard to this salat article of yours.
You discuss 2238 and assume there are two salat each side of al salat al wusta - why two? why not 3 each side etc
In 2238 why mention one of the five salat separately according to you, when it is already covered by the plural salawat?
According to you, which salat can be done on the move (2239) "al salat al wusta" or the other "salawat"? And what is your evidence for this.
what is your evidence for "zulaf" meaning "early"?
You repeatedly cite "salat al fajr" and "salat al 3sha" as reference points but you have no reference for the other alleged 3 salat hence refer to them as "this al salat" or "al salat for the point in time of...".etc etc - why does Quran not clarify the reference terms for the alleged other 3 in your view? If it does give the terms, please provide them.
When discussing "salat al fajr" with me you said this is not a name of a "salat" but in your article you state "The other two prescribed al salat are also NAMED by the point in time" (then you reference 245
You seemingly contradict yourself when you say "The remaining two timings for al salat are at two visual transition EDGES of the day which are in the LATER day..." - ask anyone about what the two edges of daytime are and they will never discuss them being later in the day.
8 )
You seemingly have no break in-between some salat.Some of your 5 salat have specific times AND time-ranges whilst others do not - why?
You stopped answering these questions. Please continue from where you left, i.e. after Q4.
