Is it even possible to do True Hajj in 2013?
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I put "Sunni" on my landing card. I had long left Sunnism but I wasn't about to get sent back after a twelve hour flight.
One has to put which "sect" one follows or declare an affiliation with faith? o How strange. I have no idea why people have such a fascination with other people's belief system. Recently I have come to realise that "religious" people can be the most repugnant. In cases of malice, what defence does a label provide.
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One has to put which "sect" one follows or declare an affiliation with faith? o How strange. I have no idea why people have such a fascination with other people's belief system. Recently I have come to realise that "religious" people can be the most repugnant. In cases of malice, what defence does a label provide.
Religions are just private clubs with members and rules. If you follow the rules, you will find a sense of belonging and a community to call your own. If you break or question the rules, you will have your membership revoked. Most members of any given group are not the least bit interested in the truth or even God. They are attached to the group they hold a membership card with and their identity revolves around their affiliation with the group. They take so much pride in their group and have little room to think about what happens after death.
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You make some great points. But before we can get to all that, shouldn't we know what those months are and where to go? I can't find anything even clarifying the most basic elements of Hajj (time/location).
It would still be a futile waste of time. Returning the Hajj to what it used to be requires that the entire Deen (system) be set up and implemented in a state, fully under the control of believers, that declares the law of God as its constitution. This is no longer possible.
Theoretically, there is nothing in the Quran that prohibits this state from being founded elsewhere, if not in its original location, and hence establishing a new Kaabah there.
As for the proper timing of Hajj, there are two conflicting theories The first places the Hajj months during spring time (March 21 - June 21), give or take a few days. It begins with the spring equinox and ends with the summer solstice (Ramadan). The second theory places the Hajj months during the summer time, until the autumn equinox.
I think you should see what brother Ayman has to say regarding this issue.
One who does hajj is not the same as one who visits. I will cover this in the article I'm writing, GW.
Looking forward to Wakas' article.
Regards.
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Fare thee well Aamer,
Good observation there! This is exactly how it works with people and these cults.
God bless you
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I recommended this
http//www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=653
Peace
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I recommended this
http//www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=653
Peace
Why on earth will people in general want to go there and circulate about a stone structure or kiss stones or throw stones at other stones, the artical is ridiculouse or my understanding is.
peace
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Pazuzu,
You make some great points. But before we can get to all that, shouldn't we know what those months are and where to go? I can't find anything even clarifying the most basic elements of Hajj (time/location).Thank you @Aamer for starting this post.
I find it quite unsettling that there is so much confusion and vagueness about Hajj even in the Qur'an...
I wouldn't even think about going to present day Mecca, so, def not possible in 2013. -
The state of restriction is not 3 or 4 days, but a whole season of 3 months. These 3 months are the SAME MONTHS OF THE HAJJ. It is one and the same period.
Salam Brother ,
According to the Quran it's four months not three ?
936 / Lo! the number of the months with Allah is twelve months by Allah's ordinance in the day that He created the heavens and the earth. Four of them are restricted that is the right "Deen" (system) . So wrong not yourselves in them. And fight the polytheist all together as they are fighting you all of together , And know that Allah is with those who those who guard ( the limits set by Allah ) .
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Why on earth will people in general want to go there and circulate about a stone structure or kiss stones or throw stones at other stones, the artical is ridiculouse or my understanding is.
Actually I'm still confused on this hajj things brickwall.
This problem is not simply playing Arabic grammar only but must used some proof from another narrations I think especially to understand that hajar aswat thing.
Yeah for our safety, if you want go to hajj then follow Sunni's way contemporary because there is no final fatwa from Quranist.Yep filling Saudi's stomach is kind of sadaqah hahahaha ;D
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Peace.
Salam Brother ,
According to the Quran it's four months not three ?
It is four shuhuur. If you understand shahr = full moon instead of shahr = lunar month (with new moons as marker), you get three lunar months as the time of four shuhuur
first full moon --> second full moon (1 month)
second full moon --> third full moon (1 month)
third full moon --> fourth full moon (1 month)totally 3 month
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Not necessarily. The people being addressed by the aayah might happen to be by the sea. Remember, that the restriction period is a full three-month season, and you can be anywhere during that time. If you happen to be by the sea, then you can go fishing. This is why the aayah mentions "travel". You do not have to be inside the Masjid at the time.
It defies belief and truly boggles the mind how deceived and brainwashed the sectarians are in the way they understand the so-called "State of Ihram". They think that it is during a specific time when you are approaching Makkah, and doing your rituals for a few days therein (as if anyone can engage in travel or even think of hunting a deer, or contemplate going out of his way to the sea coast to catch a fish while being engrossed in those mindless rituals they do!).
They have made a complete mockery of the Quran's teaching regarding the restricted months, and the true understanding of what Hajj really is.
The main culprits who did this are the same ones who hijacked the Deen, moved the seat of government out of its true place, transferred it to Damascus and later to Baghdad, and established their tyrannical and corrupt rule there. The Hajj was emptied of its meaning and became a carnival of pagan rituals.
There is more to the story...much more ... but to go any further is to open a Pandora's box unto something very ugly...
Peace,
I agree with most of what you wrote, thanks.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
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Peace.
It is four shuhuur. If you understand shahr = full moon instead of shahr = lunar month (with new moons as marker), you get three lunar months as the time of four shuhuur
first full moon --> second full moon (1 month)
second full moon --> third full moon (1 month)
third full moon --> fourth full moon (1 month)
total 3 month
Salam ,
The fourth full Moon is marking the starter of the fourth month and at the same time the end of the third month , the same as the first full moon is marking the start of the first month and the end of the twelve month , think about it ! , the breakdown instead should be as below
first full moon --> second full moon (1 st month )
second full moon --> third full moon (2 nd month)
third full moon --> fourth full moon (3 rd month)
fourth full moon --> Fifth full moon (4 th month )
total 4 Months
And it goes on
........5 to 6 --> (5th month )
........6 to 7 --> (6th month )
........ 7 to 8 --> (7th month )
........ 8 to 9 --> (8th month )
........ 9 to 10 --> (9th month )
........ 10 to 11 --> (10th month )
.........11 to 12 --> (11th month )
.........12 to 1 --> (12th month )total 12 months
This is the correct breakdown of the twelve "Chahr " / Months , there is no inconsistency .
If you still not convinced with my approach Lets go according to your analysis , and see where it ends up
What is the equivalent of the English word "Month" in the Quran ?
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Salam ,
The fourth full Moon is marking the starter of the fourth month and at the same time the end of the third month , the same as the first full moon is marking the start of the first month and the end of the twelve month , think about it ! , the breakdown instead should be as below
first full moon --> second full moon (1 st month )
second full moon --> third full moon (2 nd month)
third full moon --> fourth full moon (3 rd month)
fourth full moon --> Fifth full moon (4 th month )
total 4 Months
And it goes on
........5 to 6 --> (5th month )
........6 to 7 --> (6th month )
........ 7 to 8 --> (7th month )
........ 8 to 9 --> (8th month )
........ 9 to 10 --> (9th month )
........ 10 to 11 --> (10th month )
.........11 to 12 --> (11th month )
.........12 to 1 --> (12th month )total 12 months
This is the correct breakdown of the twelve "Chahr " / Months , there is no inconsistency .
If you still not convinced with my approach Lets go according to your analysis , and see where it ends up
What is the equivalent of the English word "Month" in the Quran ?
1st Start of a new lunar month is the NEW CRESCENT, not the full moon. See 2189.
2nd In The Qur'aan SHAHR is the equivalent of MONTH.
Peace,
Khalil -
This is incredible, you people don't seem to agree even on most basic things, let alone more subtle ones...
How is one supposed to follow the Qur'an? ???Did God intend disputes for centuries over all those things?
How is it possible that humanity couldn't settle their own conflicts, both internally and externally, and come to an agreement, any agreements at all? -[
Just reading these posts on this one Forum, one gets saturated with confusion...
Appalling really...
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Insight comes to those who i) sincerely pray to God for it, ii) purify themselves by trying to heal the tendencies of resistance, rejection and arrogance, iii) have patience and don't rush and force understanding on themselves, iv) realize that they don't know much, v) constantly pray to God for forgiveness...
To acquire wisdom and understanding we must be humble, patient and constantly working on our own selves...
well, that's a crucial part of the solution at least
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Insight comes to those who i) sincerely pray to God for it, ii) purify themselves by trying to heal the tendencies of resistance, rejection and arrogance, iii) have patience and don't rush and force understanding on themselves, iv) realize that they don't know much, v) constantly pray to God for forgiveness...
To acquire wisdom and understanding we must be humble, patient and constantly working on our own selves...
well, that's a crucial part of the solution at least
Salaamun,
I agree 100% handshake
Unfortunately most of us try to work and think about others and forget our own selves.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
I share Godsubmitter's frustration. I also wonder how the heck it is that we at the same time see the glaring inconsistencies in traditional approach, while matters don't come to solid conclusions from the Quran anyway when. Well, as far as I can see, there are only two possibilities, quite frankly and logically.
These two are
i) the Quran is not what it claims to be, and
ii) there is something wrong "down here" i.e. with us, i.e. we have issue due to our blindness, which bytheway the Quran keeps speaking about.I think all of us should be humble enough to realize that there might be alot of internal resistance, rejection, blindness in us that prevent us from seeing things. Not realizing this will just leave us frustrated and confused, or even worse, making us jump to, and stick to, premature conclusions.
There is nothing wrong with God, life or the Quran. The problem is with us. The sooner we realize this and start to sincerely pray for forgiveness, the sooner things will shape up. I think the Christians have some idea about this, though it might have become twisted, and that is the idea about the original sin, the inherited sin. Calling it sin gives a very wrong impression. We should rather see it as a blindness/slumber/resistance/rejection that we need to address and bit by bit chip off.
Things take time, and there for we should not rush. We cannot force something prematurely.
Peace