jahannamu
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Salaam Grourself,
Thanks for the thorough post. I appreciate every word you wrote. Thank you! Personally, I do believe that Arabic is the mother of all languages and I constantly realize and become convinced that words from Latin, Greek, Persian are originally Arabic and not the other way around. That is my very personal intake which even goes against the Arabic Language giants. But I cannot insist on my personal belief and understanding because every time I do, for I am an Arab, I would be considerd racist, boastful, etc.. So I always keep that conviction to myself.
And sometimes I would think that maybe because those words don't conform to the Arabic structure and rules of words, that they might be truly from a non-Arabic origin, as the Arabic Masters ruled, and that Allah Subhanahu has intentionally and purposely used them because those critical words were already/supposedly known and understood to the people of such origins which would save the Arabs the difficulty of explaining those words to those ethnicities!So anyway, those are my personal thoughts that I am a bit cautious spreading because most non-Arabs get very offensive every time the richness and exclusivity of Arabic is emphasized!
I thank you again brother! But tell me now, are you an Arab by any chance!?
Taj
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Peace Taj,
People tend to use the term racist without fully understanding it's true meaning as they presume racism and prejudice are the same; they are not. I'm not an arab, just a humble student of the great reading and a seeker of the truth.
I am convinced that when the God declares that this reading is self-contained, self explanatory, fully detailed and consistent within itself, that the meanings of these untranslated words are in plain, clear arabic and within the reading. It becomes crooked when "old sayings" and cultural references of a particular group of Arabs are needed or become the basis for understanding. That idea belies universality. It seems that proper nouns can be derived where the verb a-sa-ma is used but I'm still not sure. The biggest question for me right now is "...his name shall be Ahmad". I note that the verse makes sense even when ahmad is treated as a common descriptive noun. Any thoughts?
I also think (my own understanding) that the grammatical formulas etc. in Arabic cannot be taken as infallible and are limited in their use. The applicable rules should be obtained from the reading and not vice versa.
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Peace be upon you all,
So "jahannamu" means what?
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Peace be upon you all,
So "jahannamu" means what? D
this is from the glossary in Allama Parwez's "Qur'an Exposition"
- Jahannam.
Usually translated as hell, which again does not properly convey the Quranic sense of the term.
Jahannam is a Hebrew compound made up of Ji and Hinnum, meaning the valley of Hinnum. This was a famous valley situated in the south of Jerusalem where human beings were burnt alive and offered as sacrifices to the idol of Moloch. Jahannam, therefore, denotes a situation in which humanity is ruined. In Arabic, the word Jaheem is often used in this sense. It means to prevent - it denotes a condition in which human evolution is prevented and life begins to stagnate instead of progressing.
According to the Holy Quran, life has manifested itself in the human form after having gone through various stages of the process of evolution. This is the final link in the evolution of life in this world. But life is not limited to this world; it continues beyond death. The higher form of life that an individual with a developed personality is capable of leading after his life in this material world, is called a heavenly life, or the life of Jannah. On the other hand, the evolution of a not-so-developed personality is bound to be thwarted - this kind of life is called an infernal life or the life of Jahannam.
Jannah and Jahannam do not stand for places or localities; rather, they denote different conditions of human life which have been described metaphorically. It should also be clear that these conditions do not relate entirely to the life Hereafter; they have their beginnings here in this world of matter. A social order based upon Quranic foundations results in a happy situation the necessities of life are available in abundance and are secured in extremely decent ways befitting the human dignity. This brings in a real happiness and peace of mind. This is called a heavenly life (Jannah). On the other hand, a society based upon principles repugnant to the Laws of Allah brings in anxiety and discontentment, and this is an infernal life (Jahannam).
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Peace be upon you Idris,
Yes, I agree that they are "states of being", but I am trying to find the meaning of the actual word/root word.
For example, jannah means garden but symbolizes a certain state of being, what does "jahannamu" mean?
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peace be upon you idolfree,
Peace be upon you Idris,
Yes, I agree that they are "states of being", but I am trying to find the meaning of the actual word/root word.
For example, jannah means garden but symbolizes a certain state of being, what does "jahannamu" mean?
at the moment i am lost, I don't agree with Parwez that it is the "valley of hinnum" as in the biblical story of people burning and sacrificing others to their idol Moloch, but it is interesting that the same or similar term used in the reading (quran) is used in the "gospels" of the christians for a same or similar place, check it out if you have time
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Peace,
I don't agree with Parwez that it is the "valley of hinnum" as in the biblical story of people burning and sacrificing others to their idol Moloch, but it is interesting that the same or similar term used in the reading (quran) is used in the "gospels" of the christians for a same or similar place, check it out if you have time
Yes, he lost me with the Hebrew reference. I have to check the analysis he wrote based on usage. That is worth some thought but I have no idea yet as to what the actual word means.
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peace be upon you,
Peace,
I don't agree with Parwez that it is the "valley of hinnum" as in the biblical story of people burning and sacrificing others to their idol Moloch, but it is interesting that the same or similar term used in the reading (quran) is used in the "gospels" of the christians for a same or similar place, check it out if you have time
Yes, he lost me with the Hebrew reference. I have to check the analysis he wrote based on usage. That is worth some thought but I have no idea yet as to what the actual word means.
I'm not sure if the reading (quran) defines this word itself, do you know of any other word under the root J-H-N-M in the arabic language or in the reading (quran)? i personally think that the root J-H-M fits well with the description given to Jahannam and can be valuable in finding out what it means, i'm interested in this study because finding out what jahannam means might be helpful in avoiding it
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Peace,
I'm not sure if the reading (quran) defines this word itself, do you know of any other word under the root J-H-N-M in the arabic language or in the reading (quran)? i personally think that the root J-H-M fits well with the description given to Jahannam and can be valuable in finding out what it means
But then there's that noon? I gotta keep looking but your're right, it's a good fit. Maybe it's a bilateral root?
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Salaam Taj,
Jahama/Jahima
To meet with a frowning face, have a stern look, look with a severe, morose and contracted face. Jahmatun The darkest part of the night. Juham waterless cloud. Jahannam Gehenna, Hell; place of punishment which is dark and waterless and which makes the faces of its inmates ugly and contracted.
Under this main heading it continues ...Jahannam n Gehenna. The word has been used in the Holy Qur'an 77 times.
Wa'salaam
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Salaam Ash Shuura,
Salaam Taj,
Jahama/Jahima
To meet with a frowning face, have a stern look, look with a severe, morose and contracted face. Jahmatun The darkest part of the night. Juham waterless cloud. Jahannam Gehenna, Hell; place of punishment which is dark and waterless and which makes the faces of its inmates ugly and contracted.
Under this main heading it continues ...Jahannam n Gehenna. The word has been used in the Holy Qur'an 77 times.
Wa'salaam
I am using Abdul Mannan Omar
Is that the copy of the pp107 (Jim-Ha-mim) that you mentioned? If so, then Abdul Mannan Omar has made a mistake when he slipped the word' Jahannam' under Jahama/Jahima . This is too bad. The two words has nothing to do with each other.
And what is 'Gehenna', btw!? Does the writer mean the root (Jeem-Haa-Noon)? But that root is for another word altogether!Taj
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Salaam Kyle,
So "jahannamu" means what? D
It is the name of one place in Hell. Sometimes the sound of the letters that come together to make a certain word would give us a clue whether the word has a sad meaning or a happy meaning or whatever else.. and that would be all we can get... Sometimes the Quran would give us the meaning. What does the word 'Jahannam' refers to in the Quran? A place in Hell? Then that is the meaning! Isn't that enough?
Taj
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Peace be upon you Taj,
What does the word 'Jahannam' refers to in the Quran? A place in Hell? Then that is the meaning! Isn't that enough?
No.
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Is that the copy of the pp107 (Jim-Ha-mim) that you mentioned? If so, then Abdul Mannan Omar has made a mistake when he slipped the word' Jahannam' under Jahama/Jahima . This is too bad. The two words has nothing to do with each other.
Salaam Taj,
Yes indeed it is. I don't think I quite understand your position. Are you implying that this word is non arabic while the Qur'an said it is in plain Arabic? Or are you arguing that this word has another arabic root?
We all know about interactions of languages, there are so many arabic words in turkish for example and vice versa, which I understand Qur'an is immune to. Hence, this word should be arabic. If you're saying its foreign how do you reconcile with the fact that Qur'an told you it is in plain Arabic?
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salam guys,
i have some time given the holidays, so i popped in and found this most interesting thread. great discussion guys. Let me add my 2 cents if i may.
I think there are a few ways to determine the truth behind jahannam.. 1) linguistic analysis of the word 2) analysis of the Quranic ayaat and words related to jahannam (jaheem etc) 3) since we know that there are only 2 end results, jannah or jahannam.. jahannam may be taken to be the opposite of jannah.
One part of this thread deals with the linguistic analysis of the word "jahannam." Idolfree asks a valid question, as far as what this word linguistically might mean, so that this may shed some light on its meaning in the context of the Quran.
There were a few posts which deal with excerpts from a most inaccurate Quranic "dictionary." This dictionary, it appears, time and time again classifies certain different words under the same root. Jahannam apparently is yet another example. The word jahannam has nothing to do with jaheem (linguistically speaking) and nothing to do with jahm either. You dont have to take my word for it, just open any lexicon or learn the grammar of Arabic word constructions and it will be abundantly obvious.
The lexicographers that I have read, seem to be unanimous in their decision that the word jahannam is not of Arabic origin. (A side comment to those who believe Arabic is a magical language or the "mother of all languages," and is "pure" etc etc etc... just go and study history and study the semetic languages before coming to such conclusions). And indeed, if you look at the Hebrew language (which predates Arabic) lo and behold they have the word Gehinom. The Hebrew scholars feel that this word is derived from Ge which means valley, and Hinnom who was a king who upheld the practice (near Jerusalem) of offering live sacrifices of people including children, by burning, to their God. So if you accept this line of linguistic analysis, jahannam might refer to a place where mankind is sacrificed and burned. If you dont accept this line of linguistic analysis, i'd be very interested in seeing some alternate theories (theories that don't ignore the very basic rules of grammar and word construction.. note i use the word ignore. disproving existing grammar rules based on evidence, and providing new theories is one thing... but simply ignoring the rules is careless).
And if you supplement this understanding with other things the Quran has mentioned, such as in 178 where it is described as a "haseer" for the kaafireen, translated as prison but also with a meaning of holding someone back or stationary, stagnant. The Quran is a guidance in how to be productive and advance, and other paths will always lead to problems which keep men chasing their own tails, sacrificing their humanity and potential in a jahannam of their own creation. Those in a jahannam in this world will transfer into the next life in that state... and those in a state of jannah which is marked by human advancement and progress, will transfer into the next life in that state. I am sure lots more can be said on this topic.
wassalam
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Peace be upon you Taj,
I need to know what "hell" is? I need to know what vision should come in my mind. Like when I see "Jannah" I think of a garden. If "Jahannam" meant fire, I could envision fire and burning, which I do realize it a characteristic of "hell", but what characteristic does "Jahannam" bring to the table of thought?
Do you see what I am saying?
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salam guys,
The lexicographers that I have read, seem to be unanimous in their decision that the word jahannam is not of Arabic origin.
Salaam shuaib,
I have asked Taj the same question, it seems to have gone unnoticed. How do you reconcile this opinion of yours with Qur'an being in plain Arabic? what you seem to be saying is there is inclusion of foreign languages.
3928
"Progressive Muslims"
A Quran in Arabic, without any crookedness, that they may be righteous.413
"Progressive Muslims"
A Scripture whose verses are detailed, a Quran in Arabic, for a people who know.Wa'salaam
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Peace Ash Shuura,
I have been following this discussion for some time and had some thoughts/questions regarding the subject you bring up in your post...
Plain arabic would be in the arabic language of the time it was revealed it? The arabic language of the people/region it was revealed in? What we call classical arabic now i think...
The questions/thoughts are, arabic didn't just come on the scene magically, it must have evolved from somewhere, like all languages...i would find it difficult to name a language that didn't evolve from something else...for example, the word mathalan in arabic is essentially very similar to the word maslan in urdu...urdu is a combination of arabic, persian and sanskrit...so the point is, it wouldn't be hard to find words in similar languages that share the same meaning...like bet in hebrew means bayt in arabic...and a host of other different words...
What would be arabic might have words particular to that language that shares meanings and are essentially similar to for lack of a better word sister languages...this means that a word in arabic might share the same connotations and meaning even the same structure as another in a similar language...This wouldn't change the fact that that particular word is part of the same arabic language..
Now when we come across the words pure and plain arabic in the quran, does that mean that the words in that arabic language do not share some similarities to another word in another language? Or would that mean that the pure and plain arabic is a word for easy to understand classical arabic of the time?
Just some thoughts...looking forward to explanations from everyone!
Nadia
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Salam Ash Shuura,
I have asked Taj the same question, it seems to have gone unnoticed.
Your statement here is formed in pure english language, that doesn't contradict the fact that the words "question" and "notice" are coming from latin origin.
The verses you are quoting from the Quran don't say, that these words must be having an arabic origin and can not be adopted from other languages. Besides, I fail to see which arabic word you translate for "pure/plain" .
Any language can adopt words from other languages and use them in a native way, take as an example all european languages.
Just my opinion and thus agreeing with the opinion of savage_carrot.
Best regards,
sabo