Non performers of As-Salaat are not true believers
-
As expected, thanks again.
-
Peace,
Allow me to clarify, If a person accepts that there is only one God, but has not reached the
the point of Mu'men, according to 49/14 that person is muslim because of acknowledgement
yet still the journey has begun even though that person
does not make salat, because there is still much to learn, should that person be considered
kafir until they start to perform the salat?God bless
peace
Peace Mazhar, ansmeh1998,
Apparently I still am unable to word my question clearly, so I will try again, first I am not
looking for the definition of Muslim or mu'min. The question has to do with the title of the
thread "Non performers of As-Salaat are not true believers" So here we go again, If a
person has not reached the level of Mu'min, say, because they are a new convert or they
have not reached the level certainty for whatever reason, but is considered Muslim
because they acknowledge that "There is no other god beside GOD" is that person
considered kafir because they do not perform the salat. whew!God bless
peace
-
Peace Mazhar, ansmeh1998,
Apparently I still am unable to word my question clearly, so I will try again, first I am not
looking for the definition of Muslim or mu'min. The question has to do with the title of the
thread "Non performers of As-Salaat are not true believers" So here we go again, If a
person has not reached the level of Mu'min, say, because they are a new convert or they
have not reached the level certainty for whatever reason, but is considered Muslim
because they acknowledge that "There is no other god beside GOD" is that person
considered kafir because they do not perform the salat. whew!God bless
peace
I think that person is not kafir, but Salat helps him to remember and strengthen his conviction that there is one God and nothing but God Alone!
-
Title of thread " Non performers of As-Salaat are not true believers"
I think that person is not kafir, but Salat helps him to remember and strengthen his conviction that there is one God and nothing but God Alone!
I agree with you, that person should not be considered kafir as the thread seems to be
suggesting because the kafir is one who rejects, while the new person or the underdeveloped
soul may have simply not reached the point of observing the salat ritual due to weakness of
deen. Therefore the title may need some tweaking.God bless
peace
-
Salaam hawk99,
I think brother Mazhar implies that many Quran alone Muslims have started to believe there is no frequent salat as in traditional sense and that these people are not true Believers.
God bless you
-
Hawk, Salam
Indeed the following of those who identify their selves as Believers have attained perpetual success and fruitfulness
Those who demonstrate solemnity and humble-mindedness in the performance of their As-Salaat time bound Protocol of Servitude and Allegiance;
Believer Whoever pronounces making it public that he believes in Allah the Exalted, Qur'aan, Injeel before it and all the Books of Allah revealed in time line; all the Messengers of Him, the Angels and the Last Day.
They all are not declared successful. The characteristics of those claimants of belief who succeeded are given by Relative Pronoun .
The first element of success is performance of Salat. The successful are the true believers. Others are believers by tongue and lips. Kaafir is one who denies to have faith in aforementioned realities.
See who are truly the believers
Take note; Truly the Believers are only those whose hearts blenched when Allah the Exalted is mentioned;
And when Aa'ya'at the Verbal Passages of the Book of Him Grand Qur'aan are recited to them word by word Each Ayah Unitary Verbal Passage gave them enhancement; the enhancement and conviction of belief.
And they have trust and hope in their Sustainer Lord.
And they steadfastly maintain the Institution of As-sa'laat Time Bound Formal Protocol of demonstrating Servitude and allegiance to Allah the Exalted.Further, they heartily spend part of the worldly resources for other's welfare which We have given to them as sustenance.
The aforementioned are the proven and established believers amongst claimants of belief.
-
peace Mazhar,
peace Mazhar,
These comments are with regard to this salat article of yours.
You discuss 2238 and assume there are two salat each side of al salat al wusta - why two? why not 3 each side etc
In 2238 why mention one of the five salat separately according to you, when it is already covered by the plural salawat?
According to you, which salat can be done on the move (2239) "al salat al wusta" or the other "salawat"? And what is your evidence for this.
what is your evidence for "zulaf" meaning "early"?
You repeatedly cite "salat al fajr" and "salat al 3sha" as reference points but you have no reference for the other alleged 3 salat hence refer to them as "this al salat" or "al salat for the point in time of...".etc etc - why does Quran not clarify the reference terms for the alleged other 3 in your view? If it does give the terms, please provide them.
When discussing "salat al fajr" with me you said this is not a name of a "salat" but in your article you state "The other two prescribed al salat are also NAMED by the point in time" (then you reference 245
You seemingly contradict yourself when you say "The remaining two timings for al salat are at two visual transition EDGES of the day which are in the LATER day..." - ask anyone about what the two edges of daytime are and they will never discuss them being later in the day.
8 )
You seemingly have no break in-between some salat.Some of your 5 salat have specific times AND time-ranges whilst others do not - why?
Please continue from where you left, i.e. after Q7.
And if I may add another question how many years have you been reading and studying Quran? A rough figure will do.
-
And if I may add another question how many years have you been reading and studying Quran? A rough figure will do.
Brother, irrelevant question. My study is uploaded on site. Please point out omissions for correction. Studying a book of foreign language is merely a skill of translating it; its comprehension is obtaining knowledge from it. I am a skilled laborer possessing complete kit of tools. Time is my contribution.
-
Peace Mazhar,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my question, if I understand you correctly,
people who have not reached the level of salat regardless of station which includes new
converts, are kafirs yes/no?God bless
peace
I invited you to accept my word. You denied. You are kafir for me with regard to that word only. Kaffir means who denies to accept a thought-belief. Salat has no relevance for Kafir.
You claim you are a believer. You did not perform Salat despite living after your proclamation of belief. You were not a true believer; you merely uttered words of belief.
-
This debate is easy to resolve
"IF THE ABODE OF THE HEREAFTER WAS EXCLUSIVELY FOR YOU AND NOT FOR OTHER PEOPLE, THEN YOU SHOULD WISH FOR DEATH IF YOU ARE TRUTHFUL!"
(294)Salam / Peace
Mind piercing brother Zafar. Thanks for pointing it out. May Allah keep on increasing our knowledge.
Salaam!
-
Salaam,
Faith is about behavior and your righteous deeds to most part. Salat exceeding being conscious of God is bonuses beneficial to your spirituality but not the main criteria for being redeemed.
- Faith in God
- Hereafter belief
- Being a righteous person
These are the main criteria. Salat is in a way related here but that means having a connection to God and making decisions in life having God on your mind, ie remaining aware of Him at all times. Meditation and these other prayer practices are to nurture your soul. Certainly it is a great bonus and without it you probably cannot change enough during your lifetime.
If you base your decisions in life on God's words and live your life as God taught you then you will be a Believer. The stereotypical prayers of tradition will not help very much, although praising and glorifying God in ways can, like I said, be a bonus. The prayer is a connection to your God which you work on just like any relation in your primitive earthly life. Because God is unseen it may feel strange but nonetheless real. God hears and if you speak your mind He will listen. Make Him your friend with a combination of good daily works and friendly speeches. Put your trust in Him as much as typical Christians put their faith in Jesus. Treat Him as He was your living friend near you despite Him being far more superior than you.
And treat your neighbor as you would treat your own children and family.
God is surely sitting in that sofa at your side in the evenings despite you not seeing Him. See things as He is with you when problems arise. He could be like a good parent/teacher testing you in various ways as you grow older.
God bless you
-
Please visit your thread Assalat alwusta and see the image and schedule of five Salat.
That is not what I asked, or the points I was making.
In any case, if you have completed your answers to my 9 questions, based on what you have replied here in this thread I will give my response.
The reason I asked for how long you have been reading/studying Quran is that I want to know how long you have taken to come up with what you have. I know that this bit of information is ultimately irrelevant, but I think it serves as an indicator, because as you likely know Traditionalist "scholars" openly admit 5 daily salat is not from Quran and they have collectively been studying this for 1000+ years. It is highly likely that IF it was sound to extract 5 daily salat from Quran they would be the first people to make a case for this.
In recent times, people have attempted to extract 5 daily salat from Quran, such as yourself, and the problems they invariably run into are aptly demonstrated by your study.That is why I asked you the questions I did. I did not take long to compile my list of Qs either, nor did I ask all Qs that I could have. In any case, you did not answer them to my satisfaction, in fact far from it, but that's just me, so now that you have replied to all 9 questions, I have compiled them in this thread as a reference.
Readers can read them, then make up their own minds if you have come up with a sound proposal for 5 daily salat or not. In my view, you have not as it is full of problems. The same problems that have been repeated by others and will no doubt be repeated in future.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605766.0
Thank you for your time. Peace.
-
I know that this bit of information is ultimately irrelevant, but I think it serves as an indicator, because as you likely know Traditionalist "scholars" openly admit 5 daily salat is not from Quran and they have collectively been studying this for 1000+ years.
Can you please name 2-3 "traditionalist scholars" who admitted like this?
-
Brother Mazhar Salaam,
I think you need a little bit more study to understand the term 'Mominoon'. As far as I understand, the primary duty of the 'Mominoon' is to play an important role in execution/enforcement of law, as is inferred from the verses - 971 and 9105. So, one has to see as to how responsibilities attached with a Momin including the observance of Salat fit in the exercise of discharging his duties in the system of Governance. Do you think this is a relevant perspective to look at the issue?
Salaam!
-
In any case, if you have completed your answers to my 9 questions, based on what you have replied here in this thread I will give my response.
The reason I asked for how long you have been reading/studying Quran is that I want to know how long you have taken to come up with what you have. I know that this bit of information is ultimately irrelevant, but I think it serves as an indicator, because as you likely know Traditionalist "scholars" openly admit 5 daily salat is not from Quran and they have collectively been studying this for 1000+ years. It is highly likely that IF it was sound to extract 5 daily salat from Quran they would be the first people to make a case for this.Please rebut if these five timings are not mentioned in Qur'aan specifically with As-Salat?
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/000.%20Encyclopaedia%20of%20Arabic%20of%20Qur'aan/8.%20Deen%20Constitution%20Islam%20and%20its%20protocols/Protocols%20of%20Islam/Salat%20timings.jpgPlease remember http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/01.Roots%20originating%20in%20Sura%20003/34.%20Tarfan%20Toi%20Ra%20Fa/2.gif is dual signifiying two; its Noon is dropped being in construct.
-
Can you please name 2-3 "traditionalist scholars" who admitted like this?
All Traditionalist "scholars" that I have read cite the isra and miraj story for the fixing of 5, not an explicit Quranic injunction, e.g. Ibn Kathir quote
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600954There were two ordained prayers prior to the Isra' journey. One before the rising of the sun at dawn and the other before sunset in the evening. Qiyam Al-Layl, prayer at night, was a command for the Prophet and his followers for sometime but it was later abrogated for the Ummah. Later, during the Isra' journey, Allah abrogated all of the previous orders for prayer by ordaining five daily prayers....
-
Brother Hawk99, you have put Prophet Idris (PBUH) before Prophet Ibrahim(PBUH) in the timeline. Can you kindly substantiate this positioning, as Brother Mazhar does not agree with this arrangement because it does not suit his designs. Please do reply since it is very important.
Salaam!
Peace ansmeh1998,
As far as my biblical memory goes Idris who lived before the flood preceded Noah
who was the ancestor of Abraham. However, and you may need to research this
yourself, but off the top of my head prostration occurred after Abraham in the bible,
when his name was abram.God bless
peace
