Definition of Sin?
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Shalom Aleikhem,
The way I understand sin Any action/thought that makes your personal deity angry enough so that he/she/it threatens to punish you for it but may decide to forgive you.
It can be something based on reason or totally arbitrary/pointless. What matters more here is that one shall not make the "godfather" mad at him/her.
Peace
--------------- Student of Allahhmm
And just because I'm polite (and therefore feel obliged! ) thank you. ;D
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Transgression of God's rules.
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So sin can only exist if there is a God. If there is no God, there is no sin.
If there is no G?D (i.e. Uncaused Causal Agent), there is no existence in the first place!
What are examples of sin?
Wrongfully consuming the wealth of others is a sin (218
Blaming your crimes on an innocent third party is a sin (4112)
And, as far as G?D is concerned, the most abhorrent sin is - idolatry (44 -
My view
Sin is something you consider wrongdoing. It is defined from your consciousness. As an individual, you mold your personal consciousness, whether it is self-guidance, social-guidance, parental guidance, religious-guidance, master-guidance, god-guidance, natural-guidance or God-guidance.
Zone. -
Salaam,
Atheists don't care if they 'sleep with' people whom they are not married to because they disbelieve in God and hence they don't believe in sin.
Some atheists may like to donate, give charity, help people, love animals much more than theistic people do but they don't believe in heaven so they are always going to do this as long as they are alive and then say "atheists are good people, humanist etc" Pffftt.
Atheist criminals like Joseph Stalin don't give a damn about sins for committing crimes because they don't believe they are sinning.http//1.bp.blogspot.com/--yUk6sRYfKs/UCRQtj3gakI/AAAAAAAAIww/l0HmuRDTRBA/s1600/atheism%2Bmakes%2Bno%2Bsense.jpg
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Salaam,
Even many atheists do not commit sin-like deeds because they believe in a good nature of mankind, that one should be a good person and not be a bad person. The Good vs. Evil concept is widespread. I think we already have the instinct of empathy, but those who commit atrocities behave this way due to various factors which religious people refer to as whispers of Shaytaan and science refers to as mental disorders and bad growth and so on.
If we did not have the sin concept innately in ourselves no one would behave good because it has many disadvantages. Giving charity if God does not exist or does not have any requital is futile and a waste of money, if we want to think purely concretely. People do it to feel good and some people believe in the necessity to be a good person without knowing why. In normal people this empathy is innate and it does not necessarily have to include belief in God.
On the other hand, many of these points are remnants of old Christian belief which still has its grip on Western communities. People adhere to the values because they are sound without believing in the deity God. Reading or hearing these and agreeing to them has to do with built-in empathy.
I guess this was a bit off-topic and I apologize. Definition of sin I believe that things you can consider bad deeds are sins, but the word sin is mostly associated with religion.
sin\sin
noun
1 a an offense against religious or moral law
b an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible <it's a sin to waste food>
c an often serious shortcoming fault
2 a transgression of the law of God
b a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God
synonyms see offense
Origin Middle English sinne, from Old English synn; akin to Old High German sunta sin and probably to Latin sont-, sons guilty, est is ? more at is.
First use before 12th centuryGod bless you
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Shalom Aleikhem,
For sin to exist, there must be a God?
From the understanding of an Atheist, does sin exist in the definition that you've provided?
Sin is a religious idea. So, naturally, without first accepting a religion, you can not believe in that kind of sin. Now, for atheists, its not a matter of sin, its a matter of right and wrong.
So sin can only exist if there is a God. If there is no God, there is no sin.
What are examples of sin?
Correct. However, it is important to note that there is still right and wrong.
Peace
------------- Student of Allah -
Atheists don't think that it is wrong to 'do it' with their boyfriends/girlfriends because they mutually agree to do it and it is not a type of homicide.
While I and most theists believe that it is a transgression against my beloved Creator's law.
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Double post
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Shalom Aleikhum,
Salaam,
Atheists don't care if they 'sleep with' people whom they are not married to because they disbelieve in God and hence they don't believe in sin.
You are arguably one of the most irrational ignorant person I have ever encountered on this forum. I don't know if you being young has a lot to do with it. In any case, let point out how stupid your baseless and evidently wrong assertions are. You stated, by generalizing, that atheists don't care about confining sex within the boundaries of marriage and then stated that "and hence they don't believe in sin". In other words, what you said is that the reason an atheist rejects the concept of sin is because they don't care about sex outside marriage. Are you really that naive? When atheists don't believe in a God to begin with, why in the world would they believe in sin? And how in the world did you think that an atheist does not believe in sin because he/she doesn't care about sex outside marriage? I am baffled as to how that made any sense to you.
Some atheists may like to donate, give charity, help people, love animals much more than theistic people do but they don't believe in heaven so they are always going to do this as long as they are alive and then say "atheists are good people, humanist etc" Pffftt.
What more do you want? A person donating, being charitable, helping others, loving animals and doing a lot more than that isn't enough? Not even when you stated that they may do that "more than theistic people"? Even then its not sufficient and they must believe in a "heaven" despite them having the knowledge of it? Or not caring about sex outside marriage is so wrong that all the above nice works mean nothing to you? Is that seriously your moral standard?
Atheist criminals like Joseph Stalin don't give a damn about sins for committing crimes because they don't believe they are sinning.
The world that you live in is mostly populated with believers. Its a wonderland, isn't it? (sarcasm). Atheists are a minority of the minorities. Given that premise, we already know most people are theists and believe in the concept of sin. That doesn't seem to make people good. Believing in the concept of sin can thus have no bearing on the propensity of committing a crime. You are trying to infer that a lack of belief in the concept of "sin" makes people evil. Can you then please provide evidence for your case? Would you be willing to gather statistics on the religious beliefs of prison populations across the world? All you have to do to show a correlation between atheism and crime is that the prison populations have atheists as majority. Guess what? Outside your fairyland, in the real world, it is kinda like the opposite. Which in on itself demonstrates that a belief in the concept of sin does not stop the criminals. Neither does a lack of belief in sins make it more likely that one is a criminal.
http//1.bp.blogspot.com/--yUk6sRYfKs/UCRQtj3gakI/AAAAAAAAIww/l0HmuRDTRBA/s1600/atheism%2Bmakes%2Bno%2Bsense.jpg
Let me dissect the statements made in the above fallacious piece of humor
The religious belief that in the beginning there was nothing WRONG !! That sounds more like Nihilism, not Atheism. Atheism is the rejection of the theistic claim that there is a God. It says nothing about the "beginning" or the "end" for that matter. That is a matter best left for science to deal with. It is sad how you confuse science for atheism.
Given that I have already shown you that the basic foundation of what that picture says is evidently wrong, I need not debunk the rest of it. The very premise of the whole paragraph has been proven wrong. But just for fun, I will break down the rest of it for free
nothing happened to nothing until nothing exploded and created everything Once again, atheism has nothing to do with the beginning or end of the universe. It is simply the rejection of a particular theistic claim. If you wish to learn more about the early phases of the universe, please study physics. This particular statement is probably based on the Big Bang model. However, I must point out that whoever wrote this piece is just as ignorant about the science and the scientific claims as yourself. You will discover when you finally attempt at educating yourself that nobody says that nothing happened to nothing to create everything. Then probably you will laugh at yourself for ever saying something like this.
A fun fact Big Bang is not really an explosion, rather an expansion.
Then the nothing that made everything magically rearranged itself out of inanimate matter Once again, atheism as I said before has nothing to do with cosmology and physics. By the way, I have never come across any scientist or science book that ever stated that. We have a good understanding from physics about how these events happened, but nobody ever invoked "magic" to explain any of this. It is only the theists who do. Of course they don't use the term magic, they simply say "God did it". You should check out Baryogenesis and you shall learn a lot about the formation and arrangements of matter in the early universe.
for no reason whatsoever No scientist or science text book says that any of that happened without some form of cause. In fact, we have made astonishing progress in that field. Now please, educate yourself on the matter before saying stupid things like this one.
into complex, self-replicating, single celled lifeforms that later changed into trees and people
This one is dumb on multiple levels. Firstly because the expansion of the universe has no bearing on this one. This is a separate topic. Then, atheism has nothing to do with it. An atheist must not necessarily accept/reject evolution. All they must do by definition is reject the claim that there is a God. Let me repeat again that atheism is the simple rejection of the theistic claim that there is a God. That's it. Now, having said that, the evolution of life on planet earth has been studied in details and is being still studied to further our understanding. It didn't happen because of "nothing" as you state out of absolute ignorance of knowledge. You can click here to familiarize yourself with the study of Evolution. This study has been going on for 150+ years now. The more we progressed, the more we confirmed and perfected the theory. The arrival of DNA and Genetics studies helped validate the theory further. We have paleontology, phylogeny geology, biology, and many other fields who all converge and point to the same conclusion on this matter of evolution. All of this is science and you don't learn it by assuming that you are right. You actually have to pick up a book or two and read them and educate yourself on the topic.
... makes perfect sense This is the only part of the who paragraph that I have no problem with. This is because it is true that none of what was said before it makes any sense. However, what makes it sad is that its all outright lies and wrong things stated there. I'd be pretty ashamed of myself if I stated so many things one after another that are so evidently wrong and stupid.
Now it is up to you if you should take pride in your ignorance or have some shame and take that picture down from your avatar too. I'd advice that you take that down because I believe that despite being wrong, you don't actually want to be a dishonest ignoramus with no shame at all.
By the way, you can have it there as your profile picture. Entirely up to you. Its just that if I were you, I would not carry around such a symbol and flag of ignorance with me everywhere I go.
Peace
------------- Student of Allah -
Calm down a little Student of Allah Nothing instead of call me names.
I don't know why everytime theists criticize atheists who either don't know or don't give a damn why they are created and the purpose of their lives, they get angry as > . I have found one on YouTube.
Shalom Aleikhum,
You are arguably one of the most irrational ignorant person I have ever encountered on this forum. I don't know if you being young has a lot to do with it. In any case, let point out how stupid your baseless and evidently wrong assertions are. You stated, by generalizing, that atheists don't care about confining sex within the boundaries of marriage and then stated that "and hence they don't believe in sin". In other words, what you said is that the reason an atheist rejects the concept of sin is because they don't care about sex outside marriage. Are you really that naive? When atheists don't believe in a God to begin with, why in the world would they believe in sin? And how in the world did you think that an atheist does not believe in sin because he/she doesn't care about sex outside marriage? I am baffled as to how that made any sense to you.
Sorry for my mistake for constructing sentence. It should have been "atheists don't believe in sin. Hence they don't think that 'doing it' outside of marriage is wrong because 'doing it' is not a type homicide and they mutually agree to do it."
What more do you want? A person donating, being charitable, helping others, loving animals and doing a lot more than that isn't enough? Not even when you stated that they may do that "more than theistic people"? Even then its not sufficient and they must believe in a "heaven" despite them having the knowledge of it? Or not caring about sex outside marriage is so wrong that all the above nice works mean nothing to you? Is that seriously your moral standard?
I think you misunderstood the reason I wrote that. I just stated that there are atheists who do good deeds. Why are you so angry with that?
The world that you live in is mostly populated with believers. Its a wonderland, isn't it? (sarcasm). Atheists are a minority of the minorities. Given that premise, we already know most people are theists and believe in the concept of sin. That doesn't seem to make people good. Believing in the concept of sin can thus have no bearing on the propensity of committing a crime. You are trying to infer that a lack of belief in the concept of "sin" makes people evil. Can you then please provide evidence for your case? Would you be willing to gather statistics on the religious beliefs of prison populations across the world? All you have to do to show a correlation between atheism and crime is that the prison populations have atheists as majority. Guess what? Outside your fairyland, in the real world, it is kinda like the opposite. Which in on itself demonstrates that a belief in the concept of sin does not stop the criminals. Neither does a lack of belief in sins make it more likely that one is a criminal.
I just stated that atheists who commit crimes don't think they are sinning.
What is your problem with that?Just keep being arrogant.
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You sound like a Sunni who says "We must follow the Sunna because we have to obey the Messenger etc" angrily and furiously and then educate me hadiths.
Let me dissect the statements made in the above fallacious piece of humor
The religious belief that in the beginning there was nothing WRONG !! That sounds more like Nihilism, not Atheism. Atheism is the rejection of the theistic claim that there is a God. It says nothing about the "beginning" or the "end" for that matter. That is a matter best left for science to deal with. It is sad how you confuse science for atheism.
That's not me who created that meme. I found on Google image search result.
Given that I have already shown you that the basic foundation of what that picture says is evidently wrong, I need not debunk the rest of it. The very premise of the whole paragraph has been proven wrong. But just for fun, I will break down the rest of it for free
nothing happened to nothing until nothing exploded and created everything Once again, atheism has nothing to do with the beginning or end of the universe. It is simply the rejection of a particular theistic claim. If you wish to learn more about the early phases of the universe, please study physics. This particular statement is probably based on the Big Bang model. However, I must point out that whoever wrote this piece is just as ignorant about the science and the scientific claims as yourself. You will discover when you finally attempt at educating yourself that nobody says that nothing happened to nothing to create everything. Then probably you will laugh at yourself for ever saying something like this.
A fun fact Big Bang is not really an explosion, rather an expansion.
I never say that Big Bang is this, Big Bang is that.
Thanks for you free education. I don't have to spend $100 000 to learn Big Bang at university. You did not refute my statement on Big Bang but you just refute the person who created that meme.Then the nothing that made everything magically rearranged itself out of inanimate matter Once again, atheism as I said before has nothing to do with cosmology and physics. By the way, I have never come across any scientist or science book that ever stated that. We have a good understanding from physics about how these events happened, but nobody ever invoked "magic" to explain any of this. It is only the theists who do. Of course they don't use the term magic, they simply say "God did it". You should check out Baryogenesis and you shall learn a lot about the formation and arrangements of matter in the early universe.
Don't get angry at me. Go hunt the person who created that meme. I just found on Google image search result. That's why in my avatar, I used the word 'automatically' instead of 'magically' because automatically is scientific.
for no reason whatsoever No scientist or science text book says that any of that happened without some form of cause. In fact, we have made astonishing progress in that field. Now please, educate yourself on the matter before saying stupid things like this one.
It is not me who created that Patrick meme.
into complex, self-replicating, single celled lifeforms that later changed into trees and people
This one is dumb on multiple levels. Firstly because the expansion of the universe has no bearing on this one. This is a separate topic. Then, atheism has nothing to do with it. An atheist must not necessarily accept/reject evolution. All they must do by definition is reject the claim that there is a God. Let me repeat again that atheism is the simple rejection of the theistic claim that there is a God. That's it. Now, having said that, the evolution of life on planet earth has been studied in details and is being still studied to further our understanding. It didn't happen because of "nothing" as you state out of absolute ignorance of knowledge. You can click here to familiarize yourself with the study of Evolution. This study has been going on for 150+ years now. The more we progressed, the more we confirmed and perfected the theory. The arrival of DNA and Genetics studies helped validate the theory further. We have paleontology, phylogeny geology, biology, and many other fields who all converge and point to the same conclusion on this matter of evolution. All of this is science and you don't learn it by assuming that you are right. You actually have to pick up a book or two and read them and educate yourself on the topic.
It is not me who created that meme.
But atheists who simply reject God but believe in ghosts and other supertitions are just weak atheists. Strong atheists like you are pure strong materialists.... makes perfect sense This is the only part of the who paragraph that I have no problem with. This is because it is true that none of what was said before it makes any sense. However, what makes it sad is that its all outright lies and wrong things stated there. I'd be pretty ashamed of myself if I stated so many things one after another that are so evidently wrong and stupid.
Oh yes, you are really smart, intelligent, genius, brilliant, clever, superb, awesome whilst all theistic people who believe in a Creator including the peaceful Quran-aloners are dumb, stupid, superstitious, ignorant, especially me for criticizing you until I make you angry and furious.
Now it is up to you if you should take pride in your ignorance or have some shame and take that picture down from your avatar too. I'd advice that you take that down because I believe that despite being wrong, you don't actually want to be a dishonest ignoramus with no shame at all.
By the way, you can have it there as your profile picture. Entirely up to you. Its just that if I were you, I would not carry around such a symbol and flag of ignorance with me everywhere I go.
Peace
------------- Student of AllahI didn't take pride. I just feel annoyed by arrogant hardcore atheists like you who don't give a damn about the purpose of their lives and existences and then call theistic people stupid for believing in God.
And your nickname is much more stupid than my avatar.You just proved yourself that you are a materialist.
Have fun in this world while you are still alive.
When you are dead, you will be nothing, right? When you are dead, your body in the sand will just rot right?
Just keep boasting your superior intelligence while you are alive.
I am proud of your superiority in intelligence.May Science bless you.
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Shalom Aleikhem,
Calm down a little Student of Allah Nothing instead of call me names.
I don't know what that sentence even means. In any case, if you are referring to "name calling", I think I have done you justice by explaining why a certain negative word describes you the best. That is why I have gone to great lengths while responding to your post.
I don't know why everytime theists criticize atheists who either don't know or don't give a damn why they are created and the purpose of their lives, they get angry as > . I have found one on YouTube.
I don't know such atheists. There can be some, but I just don't know them and I don't even see why that is relevant. Let me give you a hint, what if it's the case that when an atheist presents a case with full details and you just run away calling the atheist names or something, refusing to address the argument made, it frustrates them. For example ( you can click on them)
- Student of Allah Expresses opinion on the matter of link between theism/atheism and intelligence.
- You Personal attack by demonizing the atheists, equating the atheist with Hitler.
- You again Attributing lies to me, Calling me this and that without asking me first if I am that what you think I am.
- Student of Allah Explaining what this atheist believes in and where you went wrong in detail.
- You Totally ignores the central point and does not even care to apologize for attributing falsehood and spreading evidently wrong ideas about atheism. Ends the response with a threat of ultimate consequence on judgement day.
- Student of Allah Asks you to present your case for God to see if this atheist can accept it. For mutual benefit. Also ensures that this atheist will explore your evidence/proof/case on a purely intellectual level and won't try to intimidate you with threats unlike you.
-You Instead of putting your money where your mouth is, you say "Typical atheist response" and wave a verse from scripture as if that is supposed to argue on your behalf or explain to me where I went wrong. Unfortunately, you don't stop there, when another member asks you to put your money where your mouth is, you don't do that. Instead you choose to start your personal attacks trying to dehumanize atheists further by talking nonsense about them.
You see now? That can be frustrating. Now if this is how you have been doing your "dawah" to atheists/youtube atheists, I can see why you manage to make them angry.
Sorry for my mistake for constructing sentence. It should have been "atheists don't believe in sin. Hence they don't think that 'doing it' outside of marriage is wrong because 'doing it' is not a type homicide and they mutually agree to do it."
I think you misunderstood the reason I wrote that. I just stated that there are atheists who do good deeds. Why are you so angry with that?Well, in that case it was your mistake. Your mistake made it look like you were discrediting the good works. Now that you have clarified and stated that that was a "mistake" in your sentence construction, there is no use talking about this anymore.
I just stated that atheists who commit crimes don't think they are sinning.
What is your problem with that?You are not in a forum where you are discussing things with 5 year olds. At least I am not a 5 year old. Don't even pretend for a second that you used that person(Joseph Stalin) to mean "just an atheist". You clearly used him to equate his evil traits directly with atheism. Don't drag this any further as this will only further embarrass you. Don't try to pretend like you just wanted to use him as an example of a random nobody.
Just keep being arrogant.
And you do nothing wrong to provoke an angry response from atheists, right?
You sound like a Sunni who says "We must follow the Sunna because we have to obey the Messenger etc" angrily and furiously and then educate me hadiths.
A Sunni like that demands that you accept their supernatural and ordinary theistic claims based on little to no evidence and not be critical. When you make personal attacks and attribute falsehood to me and spread evidently wrong ideas about atheists in general, I think I can be a bit frustrated. That is natural. I have never used my anger/frustration as my argument. I always explain why I think something you said is right/wrong in detail instead of simply saying things like
Just keep being arrogant.
That's not me who created that meme. I found on Google image search result.
I never say that Big Bang is this, Big Bang is that.I didn't think you made that meme. However, you don't have to make it. You used it here. That's not only condoning, you literally used it as a form of response. If I copy paste an offensive statement about your mom from someplace on the internet, will you let me get away by saying "I am not the author of that, I found that on Google/Blogger/site/etc"? Since you used it, you are accountable for the contents too.
Thanks for you free education. I don't have to spend $100 000 to learn Big Bang at university. You did not refute my statement on Big Bang but you just refute the person who created that meme.
Whatever I said above plus You made no statements on Big Bang minus the one inferred by that meme. Oh, and if you do have a refutation of the Big Bang model, please feel free to publish that and get your Nobel Prize.
Don't get angry at me. Go hunt the person who created that meme. I just found on Google image search result. That's why in my avatar, I used the word 'automatically' instead of 'magically' because automatically is scientific.
Makes no difference given that you used that meme as a response here, not your avatar. And, even in your avatar, the first sentence is out right wrong as I've explained. Atheism is not a belief in nothing, it is merely the rejection of the theistic claim that there is a God.
It is not me who created that Patrick meme.
It is not me who created that meme.Let this be a learning experience for you. From now on, unless you mean something, do not copy paste it as a response to others. Do you realize how intellectually dishonest it is to do that? Can we ever have a dialogue if people say things to make fun of others and when challenged they refuse to be accountable for what they said? This is not healthy for your mind or reputation. This will make it difficult for others to take you seriously.
But atheists who simply reject God but believe in ghosts and other supertitions are just weak atheists. Strong atheists like you are pure strong materialists.
Doesn't matter if they accept some other claim. As long as they refuse to accept the theistic claim that there is a God, they are atheists. I have explained to you before and in detail that I am not into philosophical naturalism. May be methodological naturalism. Let me put it this way. I do not claim that there are no supernatural things. I just don't include it in my world view "at the moment" because I have no evidence for their existence. I have to be honest, I can not bare false witness. When I have no evidence for the supernatural dimension, why will I assume it exists? If it was the case that you have demonstrated to me that supernatural things/beings do exist, in that case I'd be a fool to not believe. But the time to believe is after you submit your evidence, not before.
Oh yes, you are really smart, intelligent, genius, brilliant, clever, superb, awesome whilst all theistic people who believe in a Creator including the peaceful Quran-aloners are dumb, stupid, superstitious, ignorant, especially me for criticizing you until I make you angry and furious.
No, not all theists are all the negative things you've said they are. By the way, I am not frustrated at you for criticizing me. How is that ever possible when you never criticized me? Spewing lies and false demonizing things about atheists in general over and over again is by no definition "criticism".
I didn't take pride. I just feel annoyed by arrogant hardcore atheists like you who don't give a damn about the purpose of their lives and existences and then call theistic people stupid for believing in God.
How do you know that I have no purpose of my life? How do you know that I don't give a damn about the purpose of my very existence? Do you still not see how offensive you are? You know next to nothing about me and you are now asserting that I have no purpose of my life or that I don't care about it. If you wanted to know, couldn't you have asked me? What makes you so quick to dehumanize me along with the rest of the atheists? I am the angry arrogant evil one, right? bravo
And your nickname is much more stupid than my avatar.
I've already explained that to you. Now it's a matter of your opinion and I can't do a thing about it.
You just proved yourself that you are a materialist.
I think this is the 3rd or 4th time I am repeating that I am not into philosophical naturalism. But even if I did say that I am a materialist, how is that supposed to be bad? Because the real world can not account for your imaginary friend? How is that my problem? Oh, while you're at it, let me tell you about my belief in HyperNaturals. I have a pet dragon that is from the hypernatural dimension. When you die, my pet dragon will torture you for eternity forever and ever no matter what you do. Does that make you afraid or even make you think of taking me seriously? I hope not. Same goes for my lack of belief in your claim that there is a supernatural real and your God is a part of it. Prove it, otherwise its like that dragon for me.
Have fun in this world while you are still alive.
I am not a masochist. I don't derive pleasure from pain. So naturally, I'd seek out pleasure. Thank you.
When you are dead, you will be nothing, right? When you are dead, your body in the sand will just rot right?
Well, given that you put my body in the sand. Yes, we can expect a human dead-body to rot in the sand. Why, you can prove otherwise? I thought everyone already knew that dead bodies rot in the sand.
Just keep boasting your superior intelligence while you are alive.
Well, not that I want to boast about being intellectually superior, I wonder why you specified that I should do it while I am alive. Of course if I wanted to do anything I'd have to do it when I am alive. Dead people are by definition dead and can't do that.
I am proud of your superiority in intelligence.
You keep saying such things. Here is something you can do to stop feeling insecure, go pick up a book or two and read them. )
May Science bless you.
Science is a method, not a being. facepalm
Peace
------------ Student of Allah