Block of members
-
Salaam everyone
Looks like some members in here missunderstood Al-Amyr.Some of members in here accuse Al-Amyr's ancestors as supporter or even performer of stoning without anykind of proof.
I won't take side in this debate nor supporting al-amyr, but accusing someone withouth anykind of clear proof is act of fitnah and fitnah is more harsh than murdering (QS 21191).
If we patient to read al-amyr posts in here, then we will know if Al-amyr's claim if his forefathers was presecuted and even became victim of stoning by some sectarian politicians.
And one of his ancestor, Hajj Atullah Effendi a Turkish consult to Singapore is a hero for Indonesian, Malaysian and Singaporean because he brevely to stand up against European colonizer and he end to be murdered by British agent.
I'm nothing, but my post is just for a reminder.
Peace
-
Salaam everyone
Looks like some members in here missunderstood Al-Amyr.Some of members in here accuse Al-Amyr's ancestors as supporter or even performer of stoning without anykind of proof.
I won't take side in this debate nor supporting al-amyr, but accusing someone withouth anykind of clear proof is act of fitnah and fitnah is more harsh than murdering (QS 21191).
If we patient to read al-amyr posts in here, then we will know if Al-amyr's claim if his forefathers was presecuted and even became victim of stoning by some sectarian politicians.
And one of his ancestor, Hajj Atullah Effendi a Turkish consult to Singapore is a hero for Indonesian, Malaysian and Singaporean because he brevely to stand up against European colonizer and he end to be murdered by British agent.
I'm nothing, but my post is just for a reminder.
Peace
Earthdom,
did the book or Qur'an command anyone to stone people?
No the Qur'aan did not but the book (al-kitaab) did.
I know you are actually talking about me right? I never said that his ancestors stoned people.
I ASKED did his forefathers stone people? How many? -
Salaam Yuliana
I'm not accusing you, but for anticipate if this debate turned into like that.
Btw the word "Al" before "Kitab" indicate if that Kitab (book in english) is "something special" and not "ordinary one", so this means Al-Kitab=Scripture.
The Scripture is not only Al-Quran but also Bible, Torah, Wedha, Tripitaka etc.But until now I don't understand what is "Al-Kitab", al-amyr refers to??
But yes there are some verses in the Old (Torah) and New Testament which talking about stoning.Peace
-
Salaam Yuliana
I'm not accusing you, but for anticipate if this debate turned into like that.
Btw the word "Al" before "Kitab" indicate if that Kitab (book in english) is "something special" and not "ordinary one", so this means Al-Kitab=Scripture.
The Scripture is not only Al-Quran but also Bible, Torah, Wedha, Tripitaka etc.But until now I don't understand what is "Al-Kitab", al-amyr refers to??
But yes there are some verses in the Old (Torah) and New Testament which talking about stoning.Peace
Regarding the Al Kitaab of Al Amiyr, that is what I have been curious about.
Do you believe that the present-day Torah and Old Testament are the same revelations that God sent down?
-
Do you believe that the present-day Torah and Old Testament are the same revelations that God sent down?
No I don't. from some evidences and my own research.
Sometimes I try to compare Bible and Quran teaching and the result is they're contradict each otherExample
Quran orders Qishas
545 And We have decreed for them in it that a life for a life, and an eye for an eye, and a nose for a nose, and an ear for an ear, and a tooth for a tooth, and wounds to be similar; and whoever remits anything of it, then it will cancel sins for him. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.
2194 The restricted month may be met within the restricted month,and what is unlawful may be met with retaliation. Whoever attacks
you, then you shall attack him the same as he attacked you; and be aware of God, and know that God is with the righteous.while, New Testament didn't
You have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.But I say to you, Do not resist the evil man ; but if anyone strikes you on the right jaw or cheek, turn to him the other one too.And if anyone wants to sue you and take your undershirt (tunic), let him have your coat also.(Mathew 5 verse 38-40)
And there are so many contradiction, but I hope you search the anothers
The true previous Kitabs musn't contradict the Quran (8718 etc).
Peace
-
Salaam everyone
Looks like some members in here missunderstood Al-Amyr.Some of members in here accuse Al-Amyr's ancestors as supporter or even performer of stoning without anykind of proof.
I won't take side in this debate nor supporting al-amyr, but accusing someone withouth anykind of clear proof is act of fitnah and fitnah is more harsh than murdering (QS 21191).
If we patient to read al-amyr posts in here, then we will know if Al-amyr's claim if his forefathers was presecuted and even became victim of stoning by some sectarian politicians.
And one of his ancestor, Hajj Atullah Effendi a Turkish consult to Singapore is a hero for Indonesian, Malaysian and Singaporean because he brevely to stand up against European colonizer and he end to be murdered by British agent.
I'm nothing, but my post is just for a reminder.
Peace
+salaam brother Earthdom
You speak intelligently, respectfully, and amicably. There is no proof that any of my ancestors have stoned anybody to death. We have always implemented the other laws of ALLAAH associated with mercy and forgiveness. For every law ALLAAH has made He has also made exceptions under circumstances. No one in the world need to be stoned. Personally I know of many men and women who have committed adultery and came to me to speak about it. I told them what to do to receive the forgiveness of the lord. We never hand people over to death.
The original discussion began when people accused "umar ibn al-khaTTaab of saying the Qur'aan has a missing stoning verse when "umar was referring not to the Qur'aan but to the Book (al-kitaab). It has nothing to do with me or my fore fathers personally.
This lady then made it into a personal issue and virtually accused me and my fore fathers of agreeing to stone people. Nowhere did I ever say this or even explain the matter. Then she started mentioning it in other threads even if it was off topic. In this way I understood that she hoped to turn people against me. I promise that if she does not repent to ALLAAH from this great offense and crime in Islaam then it will haunt her for the rest of her life.
Yes! Ahmad Ataulla Effendi was my father's father's eldest brother. He was born in 1865 and was killed by the British for helping to bring freedom to all the Malay nations of South East Asia. He is regarded as a hero by them and many other nations. Even in South Africa he is called the father of South African multiracial politics. At present there are three historians writing about his life.
Also I am starting with some lessons to understand the Book (al-kitaab). So far three have volunteered to be part of the discussions. Here is the thread. I hope that you will also be part of that discussion. Let me know inshaa ALLAAH. Click here! http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605750.msg338407#msg338407
+salaam
-
I didn't say your forefathers liked to stone people.
I ASKED did your forefathers even stone people? How many?
Repent to God?
So what about your threat against me to humiliate me personally because I often ASK you questions that most people have never asked before?
-
I didn't say your forefathers liked to stone people.
I ASKED did your forefathers even stone people? How many?
Repent to God?
So what about your threat against me to humiliate me personally because I often ASK you questions that most people have never asked before?
Another lie added to your escutcheon.
??The lies which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man are disgraceful to ourselves only??
Thomas Caryle
Heros and Hero Worship -
Another lie added to your escutcheon.
??The lies which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man are disgraceful to ourselves only??
Thomas Caryle
Heros and Hero WorshipLying, spreading falsehood, and backbiting demonstrates your character. I have already drawn up a psychological profile of you from the beginning. So I understand you very well. The proof of this I can show from all your posts. Continue because everything you are writing is being recorded and I am analyzing all the data.
You don't have any constructive debate or argument at all.
Sigh.I didn't lie anything about you and you are the one who says me this, says me that, says me blah blah blah because I ask you questions, criticize your POSTS.
In your wow thread I just simply requested you to show your so-called book and then you made ad hominem as replies to every single post I posted to you.
Nothing rational with most of what you have done against me.
I hope it is not what your Abu Bakr Effendi taught.You are angry when people question your madhab and then make ad hominem against them.
Can you tell me when will you answer my other 21 questions? Scared to answer?
-
People, for God's sake... are we really here to engage in this poisonous mud slinging? These kinds of "debates" are the opposite of the fruits we should be generating by salaa and zakaa. Dear fellow human beings... you are much greater than this... don't let petty emotions cloud your spirits and your human light. We don't have to react to everything. Let peace come in...
group -
You don't have any constructive debate or argument at all.
Sigh.I didn't lie anything about you and you are the one who says me this, says me that, says me blah blah blah because I ask you questions, criticize your POSTS.
In your wow thread I just simply requested you to show your so-called book and then you made ad hominem as replies to every single post I posted to you.
Nothing rational with most of what you have done against me.
I hope it is not what your Abu Bakr Effendi taught.You are angry when people question your madhab and then make ad hominem against them.
Can you tell me when will you answer my other 21 questions? Scared to answer?
I treat liars differently. I just ignore them and throw their mockery back at them. I realized a long time ago that nothing constructive will come from you. In the end you will be disliked by all whoever come to know you. That is my personal assessment. Time will tell.
Further I have respectfully answered many questions of other members. Many can bear witness to it. This month alone I have spent over 100 hours just on answering posters questions.
Even your questions I was preparing to answer nicely and then you for no reason began with your previous bad ways. I say this and I say it clearly if you are serious then I will begin again to address your questions based upon the conditions we agreed to in the beginning.
The decision is yours. I have many other things to do than to be distracted.
-
People, for God's sake... are we really here to engage in this poisonous mud slinging? These kinds of "debates" are the opposite of the fruits we should be generating by salaa and zakaa. Dear fellow human beings... you are much greater than this... don't let petty emotions cloud your spirits and your human light. We don't have to react to everything. Let peace come in...
group+salaam
I agree with you one hundred percent. But if you were accused of wanting to stone people, how would you respond when this same statement is made by the same member over and over again in other threads as well. Should this member not be reprimanded?
I respect what you have said and I shall cease.
Thanks and +salaam
-
I treat liars differently. I just ignore them and throw their mockery back at them. I realized a long time ago that nothing constructive will come from you. In the end you will be disliked by all whoever come to know you. That is my personal assessment. Time will tell.
Can you tell me what did I lie?
I lied nothing but you simply made ad hominem against me, call me a liar who mocks you simply for questioning your posts especially the stoning thingy. And you also threatened me to 'expose' me just because I question you.
Yes, you are right. I will be disliked by everyone just for questioning you.I have always wanted to cease this debate but you keep making irrelevant attacks as replies to my posts so I just try to defend myself instead of being called a liar for just questioning.
-
Can you tell me what did I lie?
I lied nothing but you simply made ad hominem against me, call me a liar who mocks you simply for questioning your posts especially the stoning thingy. And you also threatened me to 'expose' me just because I question you.
Yes, you are right. I will be disliked by everyone just for questioning you.I have always wanted to cease this debate but you keep making irrelevant attacks as replies to my posts so I just try to defend myself instead of being called a liar for just questioning.
Then let us shake hands handshake and enjoy the sunshine sun and begin a new round of friendly debates. What do you say? peace