Israeli-Palestinian Conflict Question

yellowdog8272

And Arab nationalism was created by the British through christian Syrian and Lebanese activists, to destroy the Ottoman Empire.

You are overestimating Arab nationalism. It was never a danger to western powers, and never has been. Its a complete failure, and thats why the British concocted it. They knew it can not be applied constructively to Middle Eastern social reality, it serves as a cleaving factor.

Israels establishment has nothing to do with Arab nationalism. It has to do with

Getting rid of Jews from Europe
Creating a client state in the Middle East for British power projection in order to

a) Curb other nations aspirations in the region (Russian, French)
b) Secure access to the oil in the region

And Arab nationalism was created by the British through christian Syrian and Lebanese activists, to destroy the Ottoman Empire.

Ottoman Empire was a complete joke.

Ottoman committed a genocide against Armenians which will never be forgotten. All Arabs condemn this. I'm glad that Ottoman is gone. In reality the empire itself is very similiar to Shitler's empire.

Actually, Arab nationalism can be created by any one. The first Arab nationalism was a response to the Ottoman occoupation that took place in the Arab world I believe.

You are overestimating Arab nationalism. It was never a danger to western powers, and never has been. Its a complete failure, and thats why the British concocted it. They knew it can not be applied constructively to Middle Eastern social reality, it serves as a cleaving factor.

Oh but it apparently was.

Arab Nationalism was considered a threat for a number of reasons it presented the possibility of small countries being able to unite as a common force, chart their own paths and determine their own sovereignty, remain ?neutral? in the Cold War, and threaten the West?s control of the region?s oil resources and transport routes long considered vital to energy, trade, and military expansionism. In short, Arab Nationalism was a threat precisely because it presented an ?alternative? for the poor nations and peoples of the world to follow, an independent form of nationalism not tied to or dependent upon the imperial powers, instead seeking to unite the ?Third World? ? with its vast natural resource wealth and strategic locations ? and thus, could potentially bring the downfall of Western imperial domination of the world.

Britain and France viewed Arab nationalism ?as a threat to their entire position in the area,? the United States felt that while such nationalism ?represents a threat to the West,? it viewed it ?as an inevitable development which should be channeled, not opposed.? While acknowledging that Nasser would ?remain the leader of Egypt? for some time, the objective of the United States would be to determine ?the degree to which it will actively seek to curb Nasser?s influence and Egyptian activities in the Near East and Africa.

http//dissidentvoice.org/2013/07/the-threat-of-arab-nationalism/

The goverments here in the West are good in dividing people. But they don't use Arab nationalism to do this as nationalism calls for unity, instead they do it through fueling and funding sectarian wars. The British helped the Wahabbis in Saudi-Arabia in coming to power. Now the Wahabbis have been trying to assassinate the Arab nationalists, as the Arab nationalists seeks to get rid of theocracy by calling for secularism/democracy. There's a reason why the Muslim Brotherhood member Mohammed Abdel Latif On 26 October 1954, attempted to assassinate the secular nationalist Nasser while he was delivering a speech in Alexandria to celebrate the British military withdrawal.

While Nasser was in Syria, King Saud planned to have him assassinated on his return flight to Cairo. On 4 March, Nasser addressed the masses in Damascus and waved before them the Saudi check given to Syrian security chief and Nasser supporter Abdel Hamid Sarraj to shoot down Nasser's plane.

As for the rest of what you wrote, I agree. But these are not the only reasons. There is more.

yellowdog8272

Israel is a creation of the British Empire set up so that it destroys arab nationalism which was the one movement which might give trouble to the dominion of the British Empire and other Europeans in gtheir shadow and later USA. It is a colonial conflict. It is not a conflict between two people that do not understand each other. That is what the Imperials want to portray and what some swallow. That is what it is till today. There are not two people in conflict but an anticolonial resistance in which a whole population of colonnists have been brainwashed made neurotic so that they can do the job of the empire in killing off a whole indigenous population and then some like preventing any country in the region to make any headway, which they can easily do since they have behind them the forces and seapons and means and special operations of the imperials and their money and also their own nuclear weapons and money twhich they extract from the whole world.

Salaam

Thank you brother. You make excellent points!

Nazzam

Awni, your view on politics comes straight out of fantasia, sorry. Completely and utter nonsense. U are biased, indoctrinated even.

I will advice you once before I totally ignore you on this subject; go read Arabs and Young Turks by Hasan Kayali for a starter, and educate yourself.

As for the Ottoman Empire; jokes dont last 600 years on top of the world, unless its a very good and successful joke.

I honor the Ottoman Empire for many reasons, despite its ideology and mourn their demise. It should have never happened.

If I would be alive in 1890-1918, I would fight until my death to kill off its enemies.

As for Arab nationalism; go to Ishaq al Yazidji, George Zaydan, and after them, Michel Aflaq's graves and honor them instead, those filthy criminal traitors.

As for Armenians, I regret that, but they got what was coming.

Collaborate with an advancing enemy, who cynically, isnt even interested in you except as a pawn to be utilized in a game of interests? Killing your fellow people which you have lived together for 1000 years due to empty words and promises?

I have no respect for treason. As for the innocent people, again, regrettable and there is no excuse whatsoever to justify that, but I can nuance it. By the fact that muslim Anatolia lost 20% of its population due to the war, for example.

Long live the Ottoman heritage, and their successors, the Turkish, Arab and Kurdish people.

yellowdog8272

Awni, your view on politics comes straight out of fantasia, sorry. Completely and utter nonsense. U are biased, indoctrinated even.

I will advice you once before I totally ignore you on this subject; go read Arabs and Young Turks by Hasan Kayali for a starter, and educate yourself.

As for the Ottoman Empire; jokes dont last 600 years on top of the world, unless its a very good and successful joke.

I honor the Ottoman Empire for many reasons, despite its ideology and mourn their demise. It should have never happened.

If I would be alive in 1890-1918, I would fight until my death to kill off its enemies.

As for Arab nationalism; go to Ishaq al Yazidji, George Zaydan, and after them, Michel Aflaq's graves and honor them instead, those filthy criminal traitors.

As for Armenians, I regret that, but they got what was coming.

Collaborate with an advancing enemy, who cynically, isnt even interested in you accept as a pawn to be utilized in a game of interests? Killing your fellow people which you have lived together for 1000 years due to empty words and promises?

I have no respect for treason. As for the innocent people, again, regrettable and there is no excuse whatsoever to justify that, but I can nuance it. By the fact that muslim Anatolia lost 20% of its population due to the war, for example.

Long live the Ottoman heritage, and their successors, the Turkish, Arab and Kurdish people.

Awni, your view on politics comes straight out of fantasia, sorry. Completely and utter nonsense. U are biased, indoctrinated even.

Yeah yeah whatever you say.

I honor the Ottoman Empire for many reasons, despite its ideology and mourn their demise. It should have never happened.

You're honoring a war machine.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_genocide
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_genocide

If I would be alive in 1890-1918, I would fight until my death to kill off its enemies.

Who are "its" enemies then?

As for Arab nationalism; go to Ishaq al Yazidji, George Zaydan, and after them, Michel Aflaq's graves and honor them instead, those filthy criminal traitors.

Hah, I already mentioned that I'm no big fan of Arab nationalism buddy(Although I see nothing wrong with it). I believe only that it's a tool that can be used to unite and push off Western Imperalism. Other suggestions would be appreciated though. It seems like Arab nationalism is the only thing bringing democracy or atleast secularism in the Arab world. I believe in a democratic Arab world with no theocracy.

As for me, I could care less about Ishaq Al-Yazidji or George Zayan.

I admire people like Michel Aflaq or Gamal Abdel Nasser, as they remind me of Lenin.

When Lenin came to power he made an inspiring speech.. One of them was

"Muslims of Russia?all you whose mosques and prayer houses have been destroyed, whose beliefs and customs have been trampled upon by the tsars and oppressors of Russia your beliefs and practices, your national and cultural institutions are forever free and inviolate. Know that your rights, like those of all the peoples of Russia, are under the mighty protection of the revolution."

Even Michael Aflaq who was an Orthodox Christian respected religion

A day will come when the nationalists will find themselves the only defenders of Islam. They will have to give a special meaning to it if they want the Arab nation to have a good reason for survival.
In Memory of the Arab Prophet (1 April 1943)

Europe is as fearful of Islam today as she has been in the past. She now knows that the strength of Islam (which in the past expressed that of the Arabs) has been reborn and has appeared in a new form Arab nationalism.
On the Way of Resurrection (1943)

As for Armenians, I regret that, but they got what was coming.

I don't approve any such things whether it be from the Arabs or the Turks or anyone. I have Armenian friends, and some of them who are Syrian today by nationality because their ancestors escaped from Turkey to Syria during Ottoman and lived a new life there. Many Armenians live in Syria today because of Ottoman, and many of the Syrians today have descends of Armenia.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_ez-Zor - Although the Armenians have had a long history in Syria, most arrived there during the Armenian Genocide committed by the Ottoman Empire. The main killing fields of Armenians were located in the Syrian desert of Deir ez-Zor (Euphrates Valley). Half million Armenians were killed and hundreds of thousands fled historic Armenia. The native Arabs didn't hesitate to shelter and support persecuted Armenians. Arabs and Armenians have traditionally had good relations after Arabs sheltered the Armenians during the Armenian Genocide. There was also a minor Arab genocide in Anatolia at the same time.

I condemn all types of genocide whoever that may be from!

Collaborate with an advancing enemy, who cynically, isnt even interested in you accept as a pawn to be utilized in a game of interests? Killing your fellow people which you have lived together for 1000 years due to empty words and promises?

What enemy? Killing my own people? How? Ana Souri-falastini men Yarmouk o ana ma Shab al souri, o ma shab al-falastini.

I'm 110% against Israel.

I have no respect for treason. As for the innocent people, again, regrettable and there is no excuse whatsoever to justify that, but I can nuance it. By the fact that muslim Anatolia lost 20% of its population due to the war, for example.

You don't seem to understand that the reason we condemn Ottoman is because it has committed genocide. I don't approve of any type of genocide - Sorry. I liked that Ottoman was destroying Western forces, but why did it have to switch to committing genocide/massacre?

Long live the Ottoman heritage, and their successors, the Turkish, Arab and Kurdish people.

Ottoman has nothing to do with the Turks, the Arabs, the Kurds or any ethnic groups. The Kurds, the Turks, the Armenians and the Arabs have lived in peace. It's a fact. The Islamic golden age was a lot better than Ottoman empire.

Jafar

It has nothing to do with Arab nationalism or Israeli nationalism. Maybe Israeli nationalism. It only had to do with these two is when people mix nationalism with something else(e.g religion)

Yes, the Zionists portray Arabs as their enemies. I totally agree.

It HAS EVERYTHING to do with Arab and Jewish Nationalism..
IDENTITY POLITICS lies upon the foundation of NATIONALISM.
NATIONALISM tries to give a new 'identity' to a group of people..
(Fake) unity through common identity by enticing hatred towards a common enemy..

And you're refusing the fact that the ARAB NATIONALISTS portray JEWS as their common enemies ????

Things might be improved IF the "sane" people on both parties realize this scheme and REFUSE to become part of this insanity played out by their politicians using IDENTITY POLITICS strategy.
I'm assuming that it's never going to happen..

Too bad... the other choice is massive annihilation and endless conflict..

Anyway this is what Israel wanted all along. They wanted the Jews to be expelled from the Arab-countries, so they could make them come to Israel. But one have to be honest in what really happened.. This was a bad move by the Arabs by expelling the Jews. This is what Israel was pushing for all along.

IT'S NOT ISRAEL, IT"S THE ZIONIST, IT'S THE JEWISH NATIONALISM MOVEMENT.

By your description you seem to be a fan of Nasser, in similar manner as many jews are fan of Theodor Herzl.

That's not true. The Arab nationalists welcomed the Palestinians.

THEN WHY NOT JUST ADMIT THEM AS CITIZEN??
5 Million Palestinian refugees ended up STILL AS REFUGEES AFTER +60 YEARS!
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee_camps

WHY NOT FOLLOWS CHILEAN GOVERNMENT STEP? (> 500,000 Palestinian refugees ended up as CHILEAN CITIZEN)
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_community_in_Chile

SEE THE DIFFERENCE?
Among those who did not have any specific interest in middle east conflict (Chile)
And those who has..

Out of curiosity, what is their "agenda"? The only Arab nationalists that has an agenda of which I could think off is the Syrian nationalist party. They want to make Palestine a part of greater Syria, but they will never be elected.

Like I said this is complicated everyone has their own agenda..
But in essence it's all ABOUT LAND AND POWER

Besides the Syrian, Nasser initially tried to extend his area of sovereignty to Canaan/Palestine, Jordan, Sinai and Syria.
He then felt 'satisfied' after he got Sinai.. and said "Good luck to you! with your conflict with Israel" to the rest of the so-called "Arab World"..

Kingdom of Jordan / The Hashemites then realized Nasser's agenda and withdrew from the movement.
Because they felt 'threatened' that Nasser driven movement will obliterate Monarchy within his domain.

and so on and so on.. too long to be described here

The test case is very simple.
Why not they admit the Palestinian refugees as their own citizen?
In similar to what the Chilean government had done.

The conflict will surely end, as there are no more 'refugees'..

But ending the conflict is NOT within their agenda..
Extending POWER and LAND is...

Salam / Peace

yellowdog8272