Salat According to the Quran and a Critical Remark
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Please do not deviate form this thread about Salat to Hajj et al, this thread is becoming somewhat spammed and polluted already...
Thanx
peace
Peace,
You should see who started deviating from topic.
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VHow about Haj according to the Quran?
LOL
You guys are Nuts.
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Peace brother Mazhar
The following are the verses which disqualifies Mecca as the place of Abraham
And indeed they have come upon the town (town of LOUT, supposed to be in Jordan, some 1400 kms away from Mecca) whereon was rained the fatal rain. Can it be that they have not seen it? Nay, but they hope for no resurrection 2540
If Jordan is the destination of the people of Lout then where should be the location of the following prophets
"And O my people! let not my dissent (from you) cause you to sin, lest ye suffer a fate similar to that of the people of Noah or of Hud or of Salih, nor are the people of Lut far off from you 1189
Prophet Shuaib proclaimed to his people that the people of Noah, Hud, Salih and Lut are not far away from you and this means that the people of Shuaib were the successors to these people and knew the stories of the said prophets because their dwelling place was not far away from each other. If Lut was in Jordan then the rest of the prophets should also be in Jordan but according to the verses of the Quran and the historical data available there is no doubt that all these prophets were never in Jordan but old Yemen.
And assuredly We have destroyed the cities around you, and We have variously propounded our signs, that haply they might return 4627
Are there any TOWNS around MECCA destroyed by Allah? Can the above statement be validated by history and archaeology of Mecca?
And surely (the town of Lout) it is on a road established /that still abides 1576
So We took retribution from them, and indeed, both are on a clear highway 1579
If the town of Lout is under the Dead Sea in Jordan, then why Allah is saying that it is on a road established and on a highway?
You pass by {their habitations (of Lout)} (IN JORDAN) in the morning and by night will ye not understand 37137/138
Is it possible to see the ruined town of Lout in the morning and at night while Jordan is located at a distance of 1400 kms from Mecca?
And ye dwell in the dwellings of those who had wronged themselves and it had become manifest unto you in what wise We had dealt with them, and We had propounded for you similitudes. 1445
In whose dwellings the people of Mecca were dwelling? Of Noah, Hud, Salih,or Shuaib?
And (the tribes of) A'ad and Thamud! (Their fate) is manifest unto you from their (ruined and deserted) dwellings. Satan made their deeds seem fair unto them and so debarred them rom the Way, though they were keen observers 2938
The ruined dwellings of Aad and Thamud were manifest to the people of the First House (MECCA/KAABA) but unfortunately these towns were located in YEMEN.
That is from the stories of the Cities (of Noah, Hud, Salih, Lout, Shuaib, Moses) which We recount unto thee of them some are standing and some mown down 11100
Some of the above towns did exist during the period of the prophet while some were mown by the pass of the time.
The above verses disqualifies Mecca / Kaaba as the claimant of the FIRST HOUSE
But unfortunately the place where Abraham dwelled (in Yemen) is lost forever or unless Saudis yield to the demand of exploring Yemen so that the truth can be unearthed.
The pre Islamic poet?s confession about the Kaaba of Mecca
The Pre - Islamic odes or what is collectively called in Arabic "Mu'alaqat" are long Arabic odes. They are seven, though other opinions say that they are nine or ten by adding two or three other poets. They are considered the best of Arabic poetry written in Arabia before Islam. "Mu'alaqa" or plural (Mu'allaqat) can be literally translated into English as "the suspended odes", since, due to the immense appreciation of them, they were hung on the Ka'ba curtains in Mecca. The Arabs were so interested in poetry and valued it to an extent that they considered the poet as the tongue of the tribe and the defender of its dignity and heroic image. As a result, the Mu'allaqat were written in gold and hung on the Ka'ba curtains. That is why, they are called sometimes "the golden or gilded odes". These poets lived and prospered in the sixth century AD. The earliest of the seven was Imru' Ul-Qais, who is known as the best and first poet who composed the Arabic ode (qaseedah). These odes have no titles; but they are named after the names of their poets who are as follows
1.Imru' Ul-Qais
2.Antara Ibn Shaddad.
3.Zuhair Ibn Abi Sulma.
4.Amr Ibn Kulthoum.
5.Al-Harith Ibn Hiliza
6.Labeed Alameri.
7.Tarfa Ibn Alabd.The most precious documents for the involvement of the tribal groups Quraysh and Jurhum in the Kaaba and also of the members of these tribes Qusayy and Al Mudad are two verses by the pre Islamic poets Zuhair and Al Ash?a. Both were considered poets of the Seven Suspended Odes and Zuhair?s verse appears in fact in one of them in his own Muallaqa, his Suspended Ode, Zuhair speaks of Quraish and Jurhum as having been engaged in the building of the Kaaba while Al Asha is more specific and actually names the two members of the Quarish and Jurhum whose name are associated with the building or restoration. Thus the two complement each other and document the two phases of custodianship and restoration of the Kaaba, those of Jurhum and Quraish
Those who have written on the Kaaba and Qusayy have not seriously examined these two precious verses. There is no question of their authenticity and the soundness of their textual tradition. In view of the unreliability of much of the prose sources of later Islamic times about both Quraish in the times of Qusayy and the more remote Jurhum, it is necessary to subject these pre Islamic documents to an extensive examination, all the more so because they have recently been examined intensively in regard to the enigmatic tribe of Jurhum
One of the verses of Zuhair?s Suspended Odes makes a reference to the building of the Kaaba by Quraish and Jurhum
'Then I swear by the House, round which walk the men who built it from the tribes of Quraish and Jurhum.
In defense of the authenticity and soundness of this verse the following may be adduced.
The verse comes in the most celebrated of the poems of a celebrated pre Islamic poet ? one of the three foremost, according to some critics. Thus it is does not belong to the corpus of pre Islamic poetry which has been haunted by the ghosts of authenticity and attribution. Besides, Zuhair was a very late pre Islamic poet, a younger contemporary of the prophet himself and not the one who belonged to the much earlier period or to group of minor poets about whom little or nothing is known except their names and solitary verses.
What is equally important is the place of the verse in the structure of this polythematic ode of Zuhair. It does not come in that part which some hypercritical scholars have suspected of being an Islamic forgery, including two or three verses which betray a striking similarity to Quranic sentiments and lexicology. These verses however come in the gnomic part of the poem, while the verse in question comes in the central part which is the main theme of the poem, expressing the occasion on which it was composed, namely, the resolution of the differences between the two tribes of Abs and Dubyan, which had fought long. The two Sayyids (chiefs) who effected the reconciliation and brought about the termination of the war are called Harim and Harith, and the poem is a published text in their honor.
The syntax of the verse proves the point incontrovertibly. The line by itself is not complete so it cannot have been one of these ?wandering verses? in the old Arabic pre Islamic poetry which could migrate from one portion of the Qasida to another because of the atomic structure of classical Arabic verse, in which each line is self-contained unit semantically and syntactically. This verse is semantically and syntactically incomplete, since the initial verb in the line, FA AQSAMTU is a transitive verb which has for its object the first word in the following line which reads ?YAMINAN LANI?MA ASSAIYIDAANI WUJIDTUMA ALAA KULLI BAALIN MIN SABILIN WAMUBRAMI? (a solemn oath I swear ? you have proved yourselves fine masters in all matters, be the thread single or twisted double). The object of the verb AQSAMTU is YAMINAN in this line which praises and glorifies the two SAYYIDS who brought about the peace between their tribes. Thus the verse is firmly established in authenticity and in textual soundness and no critic or editor of the MUALLAQAT has ever assailed the line on either of these two grounds.
Why did Zuhair write that the tribes of Quraish and Jurhum built the Kaaba and why not Abraham? Why the religion of Abraham via Ismail got lost and via Ishaq mushroomed? The word Zuhair used was constructed and not maintenance or restoration. Why the Arabs never criticized the verses of Zuhair and considered him to be a liar? Why Prophet Muhammad, later, when he was appointed as prophet did not correct the verses saying that it was Abraham who built the Kaaba?
The tribes of Quraish
The origin of the tribes of Jurhum is undoubtedly Yemen but the origin of the tribes of the so called Quraysh is doubtful.
Arab historical memory recalled Qusayy as the ?UNIFIER?. He was, the tradition reported , ?the first of the Kinana who achieved the rulership, and who united his tribe, the Quraysh?. The later Arabs were perfect clear as to who was Quraysh and who was not, but were somewhat uncertain as to where that people had come from, chiefly, perhaps, because of the absence from the tribal genealogy of any eponymous ancestor named ?Quraysh? as Ibn Kalbi confesses. The founder of the house?s power was Qusayy, it was agreed, and his lineage went back to one Fihr the ?gatherer? of the Quraysh , the son of Malik. In his discussion of the later , Al Tabari reflects on the more general question of who precisely the Quraysh were.
It is said that the Quraysh were so called after one Quraysh Ibn Badar? of the Al Nadr branch of the Kinana. This is because when the caravan of Banu Al Nadr arrived, the arabs used to say ?the caravan of Quraysh has arrived?. They say that this Quraysh was the guide of Banu Al Nadr in their travels and was responsible for provisioning them. He had a son named Badr who dugged the well at (the place called) Badr and the well called Badr is named after him.
Ibn Al Kalbi (maintains that) Quraysh is a collective name and cannot be traced to a father or mother, or to a male or female guardian. Others say that the descendants of Al Nadr Ibn Kinana were called Quraysh because Al Nadr Ibn Kinana came out one day to his tribal assembly and they said to one another ?look at Nadr, he looks like a Quraysh camel? and so not the very convincing etymologies continue. At least one of them suggests that the term Quraysh is of a more recent coinage.
Some say that Al Nadr Ibn Kinana was himself called Quraysh, while others deny this and maintain that Al Nadr?s descendants continued to be called Banu AlNadr until Qusayy Ibn Kilab gathered them together. They were then called Quraysh because they had been gathered together, which is the meaning of the ?TAQARASHA?. The Arabs used to say TAQARRASHA BANU AL NADR, which means that they were gathered together (AL TABARI , Annals 1.1103-1104 = Tabari vi 29-30)
The fact is that the present Kaaba is nothing more than a place of idol worship, but the believers say that we do not worship the Kaaba but admire it because it is the House of Allah. Did not Allah say that do not ASSOCIATE with me ANYTHING
We assigned to Abraham a place of the first dwelling place, saying, "Do not associate with Me ANYTHING and PURGE/ERADICATE/REMOVE (idol worshipping) (from) My House ( My dwelling place) for those who are faction (a small, organized, dissenting group within a larger one) and those who support/uphold (monotheism) and those who are humble in submission 2226
Allah never said ?MY KAABA? but ?BAYTI? MY HOUSE.
Brother Mazhar the ball is in your court. Disprove all the verses which I have quoted and prove Mecca as the place where Quran was revealed. Honestly I cannot name the exact town except Yemen where the Quran was revealed but I am sure that the place is not Mecca.
Thanks
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^By saying I do not believe in ritual prayers I am being intellectually honest by admitting my bias.
I am not interested if you are honest or not i am interested about how you come to this conclusion using your logical developed argumentative demonstration so i may change my view regarding the term ruku3 in 3824 , and by the way you do not need to be intellectually honest in that matter you need to be physically active and not lazy so you stand up , kneel and prostrate , and glorify your lord , you may be pleased as per 20130 , and you may increase you good deeds as per 11114 , and you may bring yourself closer as per 9619
However, note that I have given a point-by-point response to your post by using evidence from the Qur'an instead of writing a general post criticizing your understanding of what 'rukuh' means.
Quoting what i wrote and dropping some two lines reply under it doesn't make you given a point -by-point response , this is only but a responding competition , you trying to look like you didn't miss anything and that you are following argument by arguments , believe me write a solid valid studied argument and i reply to you if necessary instead of writing competitions.
However, note that I have given a point-by-point response to your post by using evidence from the Qur'an instead of writing a general post criticizing your understanding of what 'rukuh' means.
Which evidence are you talking about , quoting some colored words of the quran from another website and past it here is not enough to say that you used evidence from the quran , try better next time , go and study first and avoid competition .
My suggestion would be for you to focus on words of the Qur'an and respond to my post by providing evidence from the The Reading. Convince me by providing an intelligent response instead of saying my mind is made up. That is really not an argument.
Your mind is in a way of thinking that doesn't need arguments to be convinced , your mind come to a state of selected choices , i knew this mind strategy , this is why i replied on the beginning that
I am not trying to convince you because you already did your choice regarding this subject as i read through your post , and that wasn't your purpose anyway.
There is still only two possibilities that you may be convinced to how Solomon (s) fell down in 3824
First Is to return back in time and witness with your eyes .
or
second You wait till you meet him , and ask him ,
even-though I won't be surprised if that two remaining possibilities doesn't convince you either .See post 45 as well. Mazhar who actually believes in ritual prayers has issues with your understanding as well.
appeal for support by using other members name
It was you who wrote the post claiming a different interpretation of 'rukuh' I did not initiate a post about what I think salat is. For argument sake, if I gave you my explanation of salat , how does that make your understanding of 'rukuh' right?
Don't want to be offensive but you can't give any valid argument , not because you
I cannot be any clearer than this.
But because you cannot be any better than this , based on the content of your posts and your why of selecting and choosing and finally based on your pre-believe .
Do you see the logical trap you are setting up for yourself?
You said it if you find it logical then i am fine , even if it is a trap
Even those who believe in ritual prayers do not agree with your understanding so you have your work cut out.
Appeal for support by using the term "those"
You better stop wasting your time ,mine and reader's time and go study , i'll respond to any serious valid studied arguments , your post n?44 is just a copy past for competition , for me any next reply from you should only be ranked as something more clearer as you already statde that you
Rank1
I cannot be any clearer than this.
So you can't be more clearer as you yourself stated .
or
Rank2 Competition writings
I'll ignore Rank 2 , only one thing left for you go and study
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Very sharp research, thank you brother for providing this.
Salam Earthdom.
I see you are continuously appealing to the emotions of the readers by referring to a perceived form of 'arrogance' on my side. You are not only weak in Arabic and textual analysis, but also in logical argumentation. It will not deter me from exposing your mistakes. Not even a little bit.
Your whole reasoning is based on erroneous information and false argumentation. And I will say and point out to these mistakes, whether you like it or not, whether you think its arrogance or not. I dont care.
As for arrogance; your ludicrous attempt to advice me or my professors on Arabic grammar, says enough )
There we go, and I will keep it short. Have lots of work to do.
Your translation of 3824 is simply wrong. The translation does not represent the Arabic source text. Now how about that? All following reasoning of yours was therefore systematically erroneous. Its like building a structure on an inherently weak basis. All other following conclusions will show signs of the systematic mistake.
This mistake shows either
- You didnt check up the Arabic source text
or
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You CAN NOT check up the Arabic source text
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Your knowledge of Arabic grammar is insufficient.
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Your knowledge of textual analysis is insufficient.
Raaki3 is an active participle, and means 'bowing'. It doesnt mean 'fell down'.
Your utterly ridiculous dissection of r-k-3, in which you try to show a relation between this word and others, thinking its completely ok according according to linguistic rules concerning the evolution of grammar/vocabulary to omit one radical and puzzle around with whatever concocted fantasy to support your view, is simply astonishing.
There is no relation between r-k-3 and r-k-b and r-k-l and r-k-D.
Why didnt u include r-k-z, r-k-s, r-k-k, r-k-m, r-k-n, r-k-w, r-k-7, and r-k-5?
Furthermore, you dont even have the slightest idea of the etymology of the stem r-k-3, you will be surprised.
The allusion (it isnt more than that) towards a made-up history of the pronunciation of the Arabic accusative suffix -an, is also nonsense of epic magnitude and belongs together with the hadiths, Ali Baba and Sindbad, in the corpus of Abbasid fairy tales.
You sir, are literally polluting this topic.
I could expect it though.
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Peace...
What if those tested methodologies are not as good as you think? At least they were constructed by the same people who even stick to stupid hearsay stories which btw actually state that the earth is not round. Shouldn't this make you think?
But if you like academic methodology so much, which isn't a bad thing of course, you should love the precise methodologies you learn by studying mathematics. Mathematical methodologies are absolutely superior to those of so called human sciences which are a little wishy-washy from the perspective of a mathematician.
Brother Ayman has a mathematical Ph.D. and he draws totally different conclusions than you do. This is because in mathematics you learn to use logic in its purest form and unfortunately academics from human sciences seem to lack this logic very frequently.
Please study brother Aymans works in Arabic and let us know what you think http//www.quran4peace.org/
Salam Timur
Dont expect to be able to understand the quran by studying mathematics.
Have a nice day!
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I am not interested if you are honest or not i am interested about how you come to this conclusion using your logical developed argumentative demonstration so i may change my view regarding the term ruku3 in 3824 , and by the way you do not need to be intellectually honest in that matter you need to be physically active and not lazy so you stand up , kneel and prostrate , and glorify your lord , you may be pleased as per 20130 , and you may increase you good deeds as per 11114 , and you may bring yourself closer as per 9619
Quoting what i wrote and dropping some two lines reply under it doesn't make you given a point -by-point response , this is only but a responding competition , you trying to look like you didn't miss anything and that you are following argument by arguments , believe me write a solid valid studied argument and i reply to you if necessary instead of writing competitions.
Which evidence are you talking about , quoting some colored words of the quran from another website and past it here is not enough to say that you used evidence from the quran , try better next time , go and study first and avoid competition .
Your mind is in a way of thinking that doesn't need arguments to be convinced , your mind come to a state of selected choices , i knew this mind strategy , this is why i replied on the beginning that
There is still only two possibilities that you may be convinced to how Solomon (s) fell down in 3824
First Is to return back in time and witness with your eyes .
or
second You wait till you meet him , and ask him ,
even-though I won't be surprised if that two remaining possibilities doesn't convince you either .appeal for support by using other members name
Don't want to be offensive but you can't give any valid argument , not because you
But because you cannot be any better than this , based on the content of your posts and your why of selecting and choosing and finally based on your pre-believe .
You said it if you find it logical then i am fine , even if it is a trap
Appeal for support by using the term "those"
You better stop wasting your time ,mine and reader's time and go study , i'll respond to any serious valid studied arguments , your post n?44 is just a copy past for competition , for me any next reply from you should only be ranked as something more clearer as you already statde that you
Rank1
So you can't be more clearer as you yourself stated .
or
Rank2 Competition writings
I'll ignore Rank 2 , only one thing left for you go and study
Except for personal attacks, there is nothing in your post worth responding to so I will just stand aside. There are others who I think have better responded to your claims about the meaning of 'rukuh' than I so I will defer to them. And they actually believe in ritual prayers so I hope you will be more receptive to their arguments.
Read posts 45, 59 and 44 for a detailed explanation of why your conclusions about 'rukuh' are just plain wrong.
Peace.
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Salaam god1quran1 and Alkitab my respected brothers.
Please slow down don't turned this thread into debate one.While I enjoy studying your posts, then both of you turned it into debate, so it will more made me confused because my english is not as good as yours.
Peace
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Salaam god1quran1 and Alkitab my respected brothers.
Please slow down don't turned this thread into debate one.While I enjoy studying your posts, then both of you turned it into debate, so it will more made me confused because my english is not as good as yours.
Peace
+salaam
I agree! I see valid arguments in the presentations of both brothers. Some issues have been raised that made me ponder as well. It is always interesting to have a look from another perception.
+salaam
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The allusion (it isnt more than that) towards a made-up history of the pronunciation of the Arabic accusative suffix -an, is also nonsense of epic magnitude and belongs together with the hadiths, Ali Baba and Sindbad, in the corpus of Abbasid fairy tales.
The suffix an is only accurate if it is part of the word what you are pointing to is a dialectics nunation
The suffix an is added to the word rki3 while pronouncing , the suffix doesn't exist in its calligraphy , the (tanwin) is nunation , a tune http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunation
Show me a one single script of the Qura'n from Sana manuscript to now a day that contain the suffix an at the end of the word rki3 , or any describing word with the extension at its end . Then i witness by the name of allah that you never saw me posting here .
There is no relation between r-k-3 and r-k-b and r-k-l and r-k-D.
Why didnt u include r-k-z, r-k-s, r-k-k, r-k-m, r-k-n, r-k-w, r-k-7, and r-k-5?
Furthermore, you dont even have the slightest idea of the etymology of the stem r-k-3, you will be surprised.These are some slightest ,fine ,thin hint of the root (rk ك in the al-rkbatyeen / The kneel , you may find it interesting
English translation ...braka knelt down on his kneel
. . . . . - - - - . - -
English translation brk camel set down and remain in his place
. ( . . ف. .
English translation
B R K .... the camel pleat his legs and stuck his chest and stomach area to the land
http//imageshack.us/a/img90/8693/l6h.gif
The movement of the camel while kneeling down is called brk from the verb brk do the connection if you want with ruk3/ ( kenneling down in your knee )http//imageshack.us/a/img802/5383/shcv.jpg
brk / camel resting , having a break
From this concept where it comes the English action of break something , as there is a pleating that is taken place , like breaking a stick , you have to pleated it like when the kneel are pleated to set down , the kneel are broken
http//imageshack.us/a/img46/3902/886z.jpg
Your whole reasoning is based on erroneous information and false argumentation. And I will say and point out to these mistakes, whether you like it or not, whether you think its arrogance or not. I dont care.
No i like , so do it , i see you did nothing just repeating sentences , is that all you have ?
There we go, and I will keep it short. Have lots of work to do.
You said nothing , you have been ( short ) not because you have lots work to do but because you do not have more to say
Your translation of 3824 is simply wrong. The translation does not represent the Arabic source text. Now how about that? All following reasoning of yours was therefore systematically erroneous. Its like building a structure on an inherently weak basis. All other following conclusions will show signs of the systematic mistake.
Because you said that
The translation does not represent the Arabic source text.
So you conclud that
All following reasoning of yours was therefore systematically erroneous
Are you sure your are using a academician methodologies and fine research and...it doesn't seem so ...wher is your
study at a renowned university, being subjected to methodologies which have been tested and fine tuned over and over and over again, being exam-ed therein and proving ur competence. Its about ascertainment through research which is subject to sound methodology.
I see nothing of that ..absolutely noting
Raaki3 is an active participle, and means 'bowing'. It doesn't mean 'fell down'.
Its because you said it from your mouth then it's so ?
You sir, are literally polluting this topic.
I could expect it though.No problem so far , lets have a break (rk ك
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I don't know how some poeple think and act , can you kindly leave this thread for what is was meant for , do you have a 0.00000...1% of organisation and order ?
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What is the name of City where Qur'aan was revealed?
The Quran does not mention the city by name. It simply refers to it by its title of Umm' ul Qura (lit "Mother / Origin of Urban Settlements", and that Muhammad (P) entered it and preached the Quran in it, to the ears of Jews, Nasara, Sabeans, and pagans. It was a city of very very deep and ancient roots where all these groups and creeds lived together in an amalgam of cultures, and where Jewish foundations were very strong and historical. It is up to us to discover where this city is. But I do know for a fact that it is not in the arid and desolate Hijaz of what they call "Saudi Arabia" today.
It is a city that receives a lot of rain, is located in a geography where there are wild olive trees, fig trees, grape orchards, and pomegranates, and is of high altitude, and surrounded by green mountains. Does the current city of Makkah qualify for these criteria? I don't think it does, nor is there any evidence that current-day Makkah even existed before 400 AD.
Now regarding the names mentioned in the Quran, like Makkah, Bakkah, Badr, Yathrib, Midyan, Misr, Hunayn, and Seena; they are all real places associated with Muhammad (P) and his people, and it is very evident from the Quranic passages that they lived and traveled in their vicinity. However, there is enormous geographical and cultural evidence that these names have been fraudulently projected onto false territories. This evidence awaits the archeological digs which will someday validate them.
And yes...Alkitab is right. We should stick to the topic.
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Its traditionalism which tries to project their difficulties, their problems, their lack of logics, their fallacies and shortcomings, unto us.
Falling into their trap is very easy when your approach of this subject is not sound and your knowledge limited. Especially methodology is important, knowledge is just an accumulation of data.
Without sound methodology, understanding is impossible.
Perhaps producing so many different interpretations about Salat is also yet another proof that people in general have difficulty in focusing on God Alone...
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Peace all
It is not sufficient that Quran mentions about Haj, Allah commanded the Prophet (sawa) to demonstrate to the people how it is done.
Only in Ahadith you can understand how Hajj is performed.
I am sorry brother Alkitab and others. I should not have responded to tashayyu in this thread on the subject of HAJJ.
These are some slightest ,fine ,thin hint of the root (rk ك in the al-rkbatyeen / The kneel , you may find it interesting
English translation ...braka knelt down on his kneel
. . . . . - - - - . - -
English translation brk camel set down and remain in his place
. ( . . ف. .
English translation
B R K .... the camel pleat his legs and stuck his chest and stomach area to the land
The movement of the camel while kneeling down is called brk from the verb brk do the connection if you want with ruk3/ ( kenneling down in your knee )
Dear Alkitab
I never contemplated on the word RUKU and always believed that it is a 90 degree curve of the body to the front, and this word was never a part of my research. However your definition of RUKU as KNEELING has further strengthened my belief that the present RITUAL SALAT is an invention. (who invented and when and why, is a mystery, which only Allah knows)
Thanks
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who invented and when and why, is a mystery, which only Allah knows
The ones who invented the ritual Salat are the same ones who invented the story of Muhammad riding the winged horse to the 7th Heaven and receiving the prayer obligation.
I'll give you a clue They call it Namaz in their language.
And I fully agree that Ruk3 (in the physical sense) means to sit down on one's knees, and not to bend at the waist.
Peace.
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Peace all
I am sorry brother Alkitab and others. I should not have responded to tashayyu in this thread on the subject of HAJJ.
Dear Alkitab
I never contemplated on the word RUKU and always believed that it is a 90 degree curve of the body to the front, and this word was never a part of my research. However your definition of RUKU as KNEELING has further strengthened my belief that the present RITUAL SALAT is an invention. (who invented and when and why, is a mystery, which only Allah knows)
Thanks
Salam Brother ,
No prob .
The present official ritual Salah that is done in mosques or the one described in hadith books is a distortion or a deformation of how was the salah done before , i fully believe that we can extract how it was from the qur'an
the 90? inclination and stand up again is about ridiculing it and is about deform it from a way of symbolizing the humility through the body towards the creator , and also and that's is important the movement that are done in salah as understood from the quran is for the objective to create / a fixed state , there should be no counting or prescribed repeated movements , that all affect two major things required in salah al-Qunt / a constant or immobile state and concentration al-khush3 , which someone can never achieve with the present official way of doing the Salah .The ones who invented the ritual Salat are the same ones who invented the story of Muhammad riding the winged horse to the 7th Heaven and receiving the prayer obligation.
The 90? inclination most probably has a Persian root , its was a salutation to their kings as i read from some sources .
And I fully agree that Ruk3 (in the physical sense) means to sit down on one's knees, and not to bend at the waist.
Peace.
Thanks for your view .
I think it was reduced to a one knee during the roman empire ) and then infiltrated to roman Christianity as this is thier way of kneeling .
http//imageshack.us/a/img30/5766/b42g.jpg
Statue called Angel Garden Outdoor Yard Decor Kneeling Praying
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To be continued
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...is for the objective to create / a fixed state , there should be no counting or prescribed repeated movements , that all affect two major things required in salah al-Qunt / a constant or immobile state and concentration al-khush3 , which someone can never achieve with the present official way of doing the Salah .
After the initial days when I was new to the namaz style prayer, I realized that I cannot get a feeling of connection with anything spiritual or deep when doing the namaz. Actually, I usually just wanted to get over with the namaz (in the mosque) so that I could go home and pray (for real). Namaz was just a show and all focus was on coordinated movements, even when you knew the movements well. To me, namaz is very materialistic and unspiritual.
What you wrote above makes perfect sense to me. I don't care if it is correct or not in the context of Salah... because it is true nevertheless in a practical sense. Qunuut and Khushuu3 makes it possible to go deep within and open up to spiritual levels. Namaz keeps you at a very disconnected and material level.
I loved to hear someone say this!
Peace
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Hello everyone ^_^
I think the salat article on Free-minds should be edited!
This way to perform salat makes sense to me now.
Thank you very much to the contributors on this thread especially AlKitaab
Regards,
Yuliana -
Salaam,
Perhaps this forum has made some further breakthroughs in understanding the Truth. Good work!
I had suspected for quite a while that the prayer is intended to be more of a meditation than the salat traditionalists perform. I had previously worked on making the salat less ritualistic and more about meditation and this may prove I was not doing wrong. It is true that concentration is very important during salat, and the counting and moves distract the practitioner quite much. Focus on what you are really intended to do with the salat instead, like establishing a connection.
God bless you